Blown alarm system fuse question - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 20 Old Apr 7th, 2008, 4:32 pm Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , ,
Posts: 4
Blown alarm system fuse question

Hi all!

Took my 05 LT out for the first ride today. Noticed I had no horn. Got home and was meaning to replace batteries in remotes so I did that and went to syncronize them (per manual instructions). No response from the alarm system.

Found out that the horn and alarm system are on the same fuse. Sure enough, it was blown. Tried to replace but it arcs when I go to insert it, and blows. Any suggestions? I understand the brake light relay is also on this fuse.

Matt
mmolnar is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 Old Apr 10th, 2008, 12:05 pm
Senior Member
 
sparky_k1200lt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Posts: 217
Re: Blown alarm system fuse question

Yup. Happened to me a couple of months ago with my '01. I posted this same question here click and got 120 views, but no responses. What I did to get the bike running again was to remove the alarm modules. When the alarm was armed, it opened the circuits to the starter relay, and to the fuel pump. Jumpered them at the alarm connector, bike started and ran. I did take some photos, and I could post them here, if you're interested.

...Bob
2001 K1200LT der LadungsTräger
1978 GL1000
sparky_k1200lt is offline  
post #3 of 20 Old Apr 10th, 2008, 6:50 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Black Hills, SD, USA
Posts: 467
Re: Blown alarm system fuse question

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky_k1200lt
I did take some photos, and I could post them here, if you're interested.
Bob,

I for one would be very grateful if you would post your pictures.

I've been thinking of putting together a "survival kit" for that instance that something like this should happen on the road. If you would post your pictures they could certainly be printed and put into the "survival book" for future reference.
Thanks for your offer and for your hard work.

Duane

Check the obvious first!
01 LT Champagne "The Starship"
73 Z1 Kawi
and 7 long gone
Dman is offline  
 
post #4 of 20 Old Apr 10th, 2008, 10:51 pm Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , ,
Posts: 4
Re: Blown alarm system fuse question

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky_k1200lt
Yup. Happened to me a couple of months ago with my '01. I posted this same question here click and got 120 views, but no responses. What I did to get the bike running again was to remove the alarm modules. When the alarm was armed, it opened the circuits to the starter relay, and to the fuel pump. Jumpered them at the alarm connector, bike started and ran. I did take some photos, and I could post them here, if you're interested.

Thanks, I think I read that post. My bike starts and runs, no problem. I just need to figure out what's blowing the fuse. I have no horn, brake lights, or alarm.

Matt
mmolnar is offline  
post #5 of 20 Old Apr 11th, 2008, 12:51 am
Senior Member
 
sparky_k1200lt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Posts: 217
Pictures of alarm removal/bypass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman
Bob,

I for one would be very grateful if you would post your pictures.
...
Thanks for your offer and for your hard work.
OK...follow link I gave in previous post to see where I was: Alarm malfunction, leaving me stranded. At least it was in my own driveway.
This bike is a 2001 LT.

Not an overly detailed description, but you should be able to follow. Here is how I did it:

1. remove pillion seat (two 5mm allen screws)
2. uncouple 2 round connectors whose wires go to top case, and free wires from clips
3. remove the top case liner (clips near latch, velcro near hinge)
4. remove the top case (four 5mm allen screws)
---picture of topbox removed, allen wrench sitting on 'deck'--
5. remove the 'deck' between the two panniers (four 5mm allen screws plus a few torx)

Now, you are looking at the infamous 'Canister', with the alarm unit partially hidden beneath it. If you need clearer instructions, search for 'Canisterectomy' elsewhere in this forum

6. Remove the alarm unit (optional...you could probably leave it in there, if you just wanted to by-pass it) Loosen the tie-wrap holding the canister, to get it out of the way, then find 3 or 4 philips head screws holding alarm bracket. Unplug cables. Lift alarm out, to bring back to workbench for later testing. Alarm part number BMW 65-75-2337-477.
---picture of alarm unit removed. Orange plug providing pin 2=ground(brown), pin 3=power thru fuse F3(Red/White), pins 5 & 6 = turn signal bulbs, that flash via alarm (Blue/Black and Blue/Red). White plug providing pin 1=programming connector (Brown/White), pin 2=Switched power from keyswitch(Red/Green), pins 3 & 4= 2 (Black) wires, in a common sleeve--these need to be connected together to let fuel pump run, pins 5 & 6= 2 black, in another sleeve--these need to be connected together to allow starter relay to pick. ---
7. Put a jumper to connect pins 3 & 4 together, and another jumper to connect pins 5 & 6. My jumpers came from a discarded computer power supply, as part of the cables that supply power to PATA/IDE hard drives. The pins (actually, sockets) were a little small, but they did stretch open enough to fit the pins on that white connector. I thought the wire was heavy enough to carry the current for fuel pump, and starter relay, so I went with those. I put some heat-shrink on the jumpers to minimize shorting possibilities.
---picture of 2 jumpers, with white heat-shrink, sitting on pillion, posing for the picture---
---picture of jumpers in place on white connector---

This is when I tried (successfully) to start the bike!

8. Assembly is the reverse of disassembly

I took the photos with my camera phone as I was nearing completion, as an afterthought, so I missed some details.

The 'proper' way to fully remove the alarm system would have involved removing right-side tupperware to get to fuel pump wires, and un-plug the harness leading to alarm, and re-plug the 2 remaining ends. Also, remove fuel tank to get at electrical box, to remove wires leading to starter relay, and put them back without the alarm harness connected. Way too much work, since I will be trying to replace the faulty alarm with a working one soon.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	0309081541.jpg
Views:	1105
Size:	215.0 KB
ID:	17361   Click image for larger version

Name:	0309081507.jpg
Views:	835
Size:	192.5 KB
ID:	17362   Click image for larger version

Name:	0309081510.jpg
Views:	795
Size:	177.9 KB
ID:	17363   Click image for larger version

Name:	0309081510a.jpg
Views:	426
Size:	149.6 KB
ID:	17364   Click image for larger version

Name:	0309081512.jpg
Views:	1056
Size:	141.4 KB
ID:	17365  


...Bob
2001 K1200LT der LadungsTräger
1978 GL1000
sparky_k1200lt is offline  
post #6 of 20 Old Apr 11th, 2008, 9:04 am
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sandston, VA, USA
Posts: 217
Smile Re: Pictures of alarm removal/bypass

Hi Bob,
I also have a 2001 LT and really, REALLY want to get rid of the alarm system. Never use it, and keep the fob in the trunk and it sometimes activates the alarm. Real pain in the butt. I am going to do the 12,000 in a month of so, and would appreciate a little better description of what to disconnect with the tupperware and tank off. Appreciate it much. Best, Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky_k1200lt
OK...follow link I gave in previous post to see where I was: Alarm malfunction, leaving me stranded. At least it was in my own driveway.
This bike is a 2001 LT.

Not an overly detailed description, but you should be able to follow. Here is how I did it:

1. remove pillion seat (two 5mm allen screws)
2. uncouple 2 round connectors whose wires go to top case, and free wires from clips
3. remove the top case liner (clips near latch, velcro near hinge)
4. remove the top case (four 5mm allen screws)
---picture of topbox removed, allen wrench sitting on 'deck'--
5. remove the 'deck' between the two panniers (four 5mm allen screws plus a few torx)

Now, you are looking at the infamous 'Canister', with the alarm unit partially hidden beneath it. If you need clearer instructions, search for 'Canisterectomy' elsewhere in this forum

6. Remove the alarm unit (optional...you could probably leave it in there, if you just wanted to by-pass it) Loosen the tie-wrap holding the canister, to get it out of the way, then find 3 or 4 philips head screws holding alarm bracket. Unplug cables. Lift alarm out, to bring back to workbench for later testing. Alarm part number BMW 65-75-2337-477.
---picture of alarm unit removed. Orange plug providing pin 2=ground(brown), pin 3=power thru fuse F3(Red/White), pins 5 & 6 = turn signal bulbs, that flash via alarm (Blue/Black and Blue/Red). White plug providing pin 1=programming connector (Brown/White), pin 2=Switched power from keyswitch(Red/Green), pins 3 & 4= 2 (Black) wires, in a common sleeve--these need to be connected together to let fuel pump run, pins 5 & 6= 2 black, in another sleeve--these need to be connected together to allow starter relay to pick. ---
7. Put a jumper to connect pins 3 & 4 together, and another jumper to connect pins 5 & 6. My jumpers came from a discarded computer power supply, as part of the cables that supply power to PATA/IDE hard drives. The pins (actually, sockets) were a little small, but they did stretch open enough to fit the pins on that white connector. I thought the wire was heavy enough to carry the current for fuel pump, and starter relay, so I went with those. I put some heat-shrink on the jumpers to minimize shorting possibilities.
---picture of 2 jumpers, with white heat-shrink, sitting on pillion, posing for the picture---
---picture of jumpers in place on white connector---

This is when I tried (successfully) to start the bike!

8. Assembly is the reverse of disassembly

I took the photos with my camera phone as I was nearing completion, as an afterthought, so I missed some details.

The 'proper' way to fully remove the alarm system would have involved removing right-side tupperware to get to fuel pump wires, and un-plug the harness leading to alarm, and re-plug the 2 remaining ends. Also, remove fuel tank to get at electrical box, to remove wires leading to starter relay, and put them back without the alarm harness connected. Way too much work, since I will be trying to replace the faulty alarm with a working one soon.

Bob
bobaltic is offline  
post #7 of 20 Old Apr 11th, 2008, 2:55 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: , ,
Posts: 348
Re: Blown alarm system fuse question

If your bike is 2005, isn't it still under warranty in the US? Let the dealer sort it.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
axamax is offline  
post #8 of 20 Old Apr 11th, 2008, 6:35 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Black Hills, SD, USA
Posts: 467
Re: Pictures of alarm removal/bypass

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky_k1200lt
OK...follow link I gave in previous post to see where I was: Alarm malfunction, leaving me stranded. At least it was in my own driveway.
This bike is a 2001 LT.

Not an overly detailed description, but you should be able to follow. Here is how I did it:

1. remove pillion seat (two 5mm allen screws)
2. uncouple 2 round connectors whose wires go to top case, and free wires from clips
3. remove the top case liner (clips near latch, velcro near hinge)
4. remove the top case (four 5mm allen screws)
---picture of topbox removed, allen wrench sitting on 'deck'--
5. remove the 'deck' between the two panniers (four 5mm allen screws plus a few torx)







Now, you are looking at the infamous 'Canister', with the alarm unit partially hidden beneath it. If you need clearer instructions, search for 'Canisterectomy' elsewhere in this forum

6. Remove the alarm unit (optional...you could probably leave it in there, if you just wanted to by-pass it) Loosen the tie-wrap holding the canister, to get it out of the way, then find 3 or 4 philips head screws holding alarm bracket. Unplug cables. Lift alarm out, to bring back to workbench for later testing. Alarm part number BMW 65-75-2337-477.
---picture of alarm unit removed. Orange plug providing pin 2=ground(brown), pin 3=power thru fuse F3(Red/White), pins 5 & 6 = turn signal bulbs, that flash via alarm (Blue/Black and Blue/Red). White plug providing pin 1=programming connector (Brown/White), pin 2=Switched power from keyswitch(Red/Green), pins 3 & 4= 2 (Black) wires, in a common sleeve--these need to be connected together to let fuel pump run, pins 5 & 6= 2 black, in another sleeve--these need to be connected together to allow starter relay to pick. ---
7. Put a jumper to connect pins 3 & 4 together, and another jumper to connect pins 5 & 6. My jumpers came from a discarded computer power supply, as part of the cables that supply power to PATA/IDE hard drives. The pins (actually, sockets) were a little small, but they did stretch open enough to fit the pins on that white connector. I thought the wire was heavy enough to carry the current for fuel pump, and starter relay, so I went with those. I put some heat-shrink on the jumpers to minimize shorting possibilities.
---picture of 2 jumpers, with white heat-shrink, sitting on pillion, posing for the picture---
---picture of jumpers in place on white connector---

This is when I tried (successfully) to start the bike!

8. Assembly is the reverse of disassembly

I took the photos with my camera phone as I was nearing completion, as an afterthought, so I missed some details.

The 'proper' way to fully remove the alarm system would have involved removing right-side tupperware to get to fuel pump wires, and un-plug the harness leading to alarm, and re-plug the 2 remaining ends. Also, remove fuel tank to get at electrical box, to remove wires leading to starter relay, and put them back without the alarm harness connected. Way too much work, since I will be trying to replace the faulty alarm with a working one soon.



Bob (Sparky)

Very nice write up!
That is exactly what is needed if the alarm unit craps out on the road. A simple, no nonsense work around.

If we should ever meet up sometime, the first one (at least) is on me.

Thanks for your time and effort!

Duane

Check the obvious first!
01 LT Champagne "The Starship"
73 Z1 Kawi
and 7 long gone
Dman is offline  
post #9 of 20 Old Apr 11th, 2008, 8:08 pm
Senior Member
 
sparky_k1200lt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Posts: 217
Re: Blown alarm system fuse question

Seems someone else in this forum has had success too

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthre...m+installation

It was the 'installation manual' that gave me the clues to the quick-disable thing. With 2 pairs of black wires that didn't match the factory wiring book, I didn't know which wires went where. To fully remove the alarm system, look at that installation manual and 'removal is the reverse of assembly'

...Bob
2001 K1200LT der LadungsTräger
1978 GL1000
sparky_k1200lt is offline  
post #10 of 20 Old Apr 11th, 2008, 9:48 pm Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , ,
Posts: 4
Re: Blown alarm system fuse question

Quote:
Originally Posted by axamax
If your bike is 2005, isn't it still under warranty in the US? Let the dealer sort it.

Yes, it is under warranty and I called the dealer, but he's 100 miles away. I was hoping there would be a simple answer. Wishful thinking, I guess.

I am taking it out to him as soon as I can get a decent day to ride that I'm also off work. In the mean time, no horn or brake lights.

Matt
mmolnar is offline  
post #11 of 20 Old Apr 12th, 2008, 6:38 pm
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NEW YORK, NEW YORK, USA
Posts: 12
Re: Blown alarm system fuse question

Hi .I have my 2005 in same condition .I will take my on next wend (04-16-2008) for repair than after is fixed I can post the problem.
n2taq is offline  
post #12 of 20 Old May 20th, 2008, 9:59 am
Wrencher Extraordinaire
 
jzeiler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hazel Green, AL, USA
Posts: 13,269
Re: Blown alarm system fuse question

Bob did a great job on this post.

Now for all of you that have the 05 and up alarm problem here is the solution to bypass that one as well.

05 + Alarm Bypass

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jzeiler is offline  
post #13 of 20 Old May 20th, 2008, 2:05 pm
Senior Member
 
RVB1019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Long Island , NY, USA
Posts: 1,733
Garage
Re: Blown alarm system fuse question

You might also want to check your blinkers too- same fuse.

While at STC, my right blinker/Horn and alarm shorted out. It turned out that the week before my trip, I buggered one of the turn signal connections when I stripped the plastic to replace the radio fuse. Once we unbuggered the connection, no problems with the horn or alarm.

Rob V.B.
2015 Triumph Explorer 1200
2007 BMW GT (SOLD)
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2003 BMW LT (SOLD)
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2002 BMW R1150 traded for 2002 Yamaha FZ1 traded for a 2003 GSXR 750

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
RVB1019 is offline  
post #14 of 20 Old May 27th, 2009, 1:03 pm
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 12
Re: Blown alarm system fuse question

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmolnar
Hi all!

Took my 05 LT out for the first ride today. Noticed I had no horn. Got home and was meaning to replace batteries in remotes so I did that and went to syncronize them (per manual instructions). No response from the alarm system.

Found out that the horn and alarm system are on the same fuse. Sure enough, it was blown. Tried to replace but it arcs when I go to insert it, and blows. Any suggestions? I understand the brake light relay is also on this fuse.

Matt
I just experienced the exact same problem (05 LT also), took it in to my dealer and they isolated the problem to the alarm, through process of elimination (disconnected other items on same fuse circuit until fuse no longer blew).

New alarm on the way ($440 Cdn). They left the alarm disconnected so I would have horn and brake lights but the key fobs still do not work for the locks, nor does the bike indicate registered key fobs when key is turned to off. Tried the fob registration method but also does not work.

Is this normal, does the alarm module control all of this as well, or do I also have problems with the unlocking mechanism.

Thank You
Gary

Gary
2005 K1200LT Dark Graphite Metallic
2002 Honda VTX1800C, Illusion Red
zipper is offline  
post #15 of 20 Old May 27th, 2009, 1:14 pm
Senior Member
 
Steve_R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Snellville, GA, USA
Posts: 6,424
Re: Blown alarm system fuse question

I believe that the alarm is going to have to be working for all the locks to work. Sorry.

On His Ride,
Steve
-
KA5MTE
'02 LTE - Red-blooded Dragonfly
'00 Unigo - Dragon's Egg
'01 LTC - Flying Purple People Eater (Ya gotta be old enough to understand)(RIP)
'00 LTC - Canyon Red Rover (RIP)

Have you
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwlt.com lately????



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"To not know me is to lose nothing, to not know Him is to lose everything."
Steve_R is offline  
post #16 of 20 Old May 27th, 2009, 1:23 pm
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 12
Re: Blown alarm system fuse question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_R
I believe that the alarm is going to have to be working for all the locks to work. Sorry.
Hi Steve

Don't be sorry, that is exactly what I was hoping to hear as it would mean not having to spend any more $$$$.

What really sucks is that my warranty only expired Jan 3/09 and I only have 10,400 km (roughly 6500 miles) on the bike. My dealer is going to ask BMW Canada if they will help out, but I'm not holding out much hope so I just went ahead and ordered a new one.

Thank You
Gary

Gary
2005 K1200LT Dark Graphite Metallic
2002 Honda VTX1800C, Illusion Red
zipper is offline  
post #17 of 20 Old May 27th, 2009, 3:06 pm
Senior Member
 
javandyke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Reynoldsburg, OH, USA
Posts: 182
Re: Blown alarm system fuse question

John, when I click on the link it points to a picture of adding power to the oddments box.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
Bob did a great job on this post.

Now for all of you that have the 05 and up alarm problem here is the solution to bypass that one as well.

05 + Alarm Bypass

Jim
'06LT - Magnesium Black Graphite (light black)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
javandyke is offline  
post #18 of 20 Old May 27th, 2009, 3:48 pm
Senior Member
 
Steve_R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Snellville, GA, USA
Posts: 6,424
Re: Blown alarm system fuse question

Jim,

The document is just off the page from the link. There is a MS Doc about three items to the left of the picture that shows the power in the oddments box. The file will read Ok my 05 and up LT has a toasted alarm or try this link.

On His Ride,
Steve
-
KA5MTE
'02 LTE - Red-blooded Dragonfly
'00 Unigo - Dragon's Egg
'01 LTC - Flying Purple People Eater (Ya gotta be old enough to understand)(RIP)
'00 LTC - Canyon Red Rover (RIP)

Have you
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwlt.com lately????



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"To not know me is to lose nothing, to not know Him is to lose everything."
Steve_R is offline  
post #19 of 20 Old May 27th, 2009, 5:24 pm
Wrencher Extraordinaire
 
jzeiler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hazel Green, AL, USA
Posts: 13,269
Re: Blown alarm system fuse question

Quote:
Originally Posted by javandyke
John, when I click on the link it points to a picture of adding power to the oddments box.
I have noticed that the position of the files does change over time. That is why an old link will not work. If you have any questions just give me a holler

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jzeiler is offline  
post #20 of 20 Old May 28th, 2009, 11:13 am
Senior Member
 
javandyke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Reynoldsburg, OH, USA
Posts: 182
Re: Blown alarm system fuse question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_R
Jim,

The document is just off the page from the link. There is a MS Doc about three items to the left of the picture that shows the power in the oddments box. The file will read Ok my 05 and up LT has a toasted alarm or try this link.
Thanks Steve, your link worked perfectly. I'm going to print this and keep it in the bike just in case this should ever happen to me. The alarm system in general scares me a little because it always takes several tries with the fob to get it to release. I don't use it much because of this.

Jim
'06LT - Magnesium Black Graphite (light black)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
javandyke is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW Luxury Touring Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help! Alarm fuse F3 keeps blowing sparky_k1200lt Batteries, Chargers, & Electrical 3 May 6th, 2013 8:44 pm
2003 LT alarm system question tvolk K1200LT 6 Feb 25th, 2009 8:58 am
Fuel pump fuse blown RealWing K1200LT 9 Nov 24th, 2007 9:37 am
Alarm system: Amber signal lights have stopped flashing RRRider K1200LT 2 Jul 31st, 2007 10:45 am

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome