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post #1 of 33 Old Dec 13th, 2005, 3:51 pm Thread Starter
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New Rear Bearing

Seeings how this rear end had around 40 thou on it I decided the time was ripe for for the 17 ball.

I rode into San Antonio to Rhinewest and Hank had er done in less than two hours whilst I hairassed him and made a general nuisance of myself. Total cost was 280 bones and some change. The hard part was me putting the Unigo hitch back on, handing Hank tools and rolling around on the concrete floor. OK, that was all fun, I just like using the word hard in a sentence. Dayem, did it again!

Dick dropped by for some immoral support and Edgar (I think I'm going to start calling him Edgear) popped in for lunch.

All in all,the peace of mind whilst rolling thru BFE is worth any price.



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post #2 of 33 Old Dec 13th, 2005, 4:24 pm
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Talking So how easy was it.

Since I'm going to assume you paid the extra to watch/help.....

I was wondering if this is something that one could do on their own without too much difficulty.. If it only took them two hours surely It wouldn't take more than three for most of us more "experienced" wrenchers....

Thanks,

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post #3 of 33 Old Dec 13th, 2005, 4:52 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpspen
Since I'm going to assume you paid the extra to watch/help.....

I was wondering if this is something that one could do on their own without too much difficulty.. If it only took them two hours surely It wouldn't take more than three for most of us more "experienced" wrenchers....

Thanks,

John
In short, yes -- see post #15 in this thread:
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthre...al+cover+bolts

There was another recent thread on using a minipropane torch to heat the large bearing race to get it hot enough to draw off the crown gear carrier with relative ease.

Mark Neblett
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post #4 of 33 Old Dec 13th, 2005, 5:00 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mneblett
In short, yes -- see post #15 in this thread:
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthre...al+cover+bolts

There was another recent thread on using a minipropane torch to heat the large bearing race to get it hot enough to draw off the crown gear carrier with relative ease.
Hey, Mark - while writhing in agony on the floor trying to re-install the Uni-Go hitch bar, Grif also mentioned another tool that is nice to have in your arsenal --- somethang about a BFH!!!
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post #5 of 33 Old Dec 13th, 2005, 5:07 pm Thread Starter
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And that automatic, hydraulic press didn't hurt none either, neither does air tools.

I'd be real careful removing the rotor, though it didn't happen, them hex heads look like they can strip by looking at them wrong. Wonder how I know that?



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post #6 of 33 Old Dec 13th, 2005, 8:22 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
Hey, Mark - while writhing in agony on the floor trying to re-install the Uni-Go hitch bar, Grif also mentioned another tool that is nice to have in your arsenal --- somethang about a BFH!!!
A true proffessinal has BFHs in small, medium and large For example, I found the little 3 lb one to be a "perfect fit" to the piece of 3/16" steel plate that needed to be "convinced" to become a horn mount bracket last night.

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post #7 of 33 Old Dec 13th, 2005, 8:29 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
I'd be real careful removing the rotor, though it didn't happen, them hex heads look like they can strip by looking at them wrong. Wonder how I know that?
Excellent reminder! I hit mine briefly with a torch to soften the locktite on them, and turned the wrench slowly afterwards. They came out no problem, but even with the locktite softened, the Allen sockets in the screws deformed more than I would have liked to see.

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post #8 of 33 Old Dec 13th, 2005, 11:00 pm
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Ditto

Quote:
Originally Posted by mneblett
Excellent reminder! I hit mine briefly with a torch to soften the locktite on them, and turned the wrench slowly afterwards. They came out no problem, but even with the locktite softened, the Allen sockets in the screws deformed more than I would have liked to see.
MMMM torch goood, me like.

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post #9 of 33 Old Dec 14th, 2005, 10:47 am
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Torch gooooood... me like

Echo!

Grif, glad it all turned out okay! I don't know where you'd set up the hydraulic press in your ga-rudge! That would be hard. Come to think of it, a torch would be good, to soften the hard stuff. Could have saved your vise (not vice=).

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post #10 of 33 Old Dec 14th, 2005, 4:53 pm Thread Starter
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Got the torch, the crackerbox and because of the good vise fairy, that, too. After seeing it done, I'm sure I could do it now cause I even have freezer and several flavors of BFH.

Who needs a steenkeen press? I've got a jack and, I'm sure, somethang heavy enough for counterforce. Mayhaps I could invite one of my sister in laws (ducking)



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post #11 of 33 Old Dec 14th, 2005, 5:16 pm
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"centerforce"

Now, Grif, that might be a challenge to keep that "centerforce" actually "centered".. hehe. .what with all the duckin' and steppin' and fetchin'..

Oh, and "dry ice" can be substituted for a freezer..

I don't know nuthin' bout no vise fairy.

Annnnyhow, hope to be laying some tired eyeballs on you guys soon...

Peace and MERRY Christmas!

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post #12 of 33 Old Dec 15th, 2005, 7:24 am
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I did mine about 2 months ago - with the help of Turp Cobb, present president of the BMWMotorcycleOwnersOfCleveland club. We did it at Turp's Harley Davison repair business in Lorain Ohio. He also repairs BMWs. We changed the pinion shaft seal and the 19 ball bearing to a 17. It took us about 6 hours. Although Turp has some of BMWs special tools (we needed them), he had to fabricate a tool to hold the mechanism from turning while loosening the nut on the pinion. The biggest problem we had was removing the old crown bearing from the crown gear. Even with a drawer filled with about 15 different bearing pullers, Turp had to grind on a two jaw one to get it to fit under the bearing. Then with lots of heat from a propane torch, and ice inside the crowngear, we still were afraid that we'd break the very hefty puller from all the pressure it took to remove the bearing (using a 3 ft breaker bar on the puller's bolt). I don't see how anyone could expect to do this alongside the road! We carefully mic'd everything and determined that the new bearing assembly to be 1 thousanth of an inch wider than the old one. We both agreed that we liked the slightly tighter fit because of wear (46K). That was about 1000 miles ago and everything seems to be fine.

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post #13 of 33 Old Dec 15th, 2005, 8:07 am Thread Starter
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Whew. We didn't even drop the whole rear from the bike. Just took out the assembly and left the rear housing. I reckon you didn't get it cold enough and can prolly see where the beauty of the press came in. No jacking either, just push a pedal. Ah, if it was all that easy. Usually sweating, crying and gnashing of teeth.



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post #14 of 33 Old Dec 15th, 2005, 9:49 am
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Mark

I read this other thread as well. So, I decided I'd go and ask the dealer for a price to change the rear drive bearing to the 17 bearing one ..... He came back with a question - which bearing - the small inner one, or the large outer one. I wasn't too sure, I could tell him it had something to do with the rear wheel, not the front wheel :-)

My bike is at 92,000, rear drive changed out at about 38K (Santa Fe). I was thinking of getting a bit of PM done before Christmas.

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post #15 of 33 Old Dec 15th, 2005, 10:16 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmg08057
Mark

I read this other thread as well. So, I decided I'd go and ask the dealer for a price to change the rear drive bearing to the 17 bearing one ..... He came back with a question - which bearing - the small inner one, or the large outer one. I wasn't too sure, I could tell him it had something to do with the rear wheel, not the front wheel :-)

My bike is at 92,000, rear drive changed out at about 38K (Santa Fe). I was thinking of getting a bit of PM done before Christmas.
Hi, Ralph --

It's the large ball bearing -- about 6" diameter (~150mm for the countries with non-archaic measurement systems). This is the bearing supporting the wheel-side of the big gear in the final drive (the crown gear).

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post #16 of 33 Old Dec 15th, 2005, 3:52 pm Thread Starter
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I don't know if I'd let a dealer touch my bike if they didn't know which bearing you're talking about.



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post #17 of 33 Old Dec 15th, 2005, 9:35 pm
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Cool read on the GS list

Hi , I read on the GS list a bought a guy that changed his bearing out in his GS's final drive in his driveway . He was seeing if he could do it on the road if he had to . I can't find it right now , but I remember he got the bearing off with his tire irons , and heated up the new one by setting it on his muffler before he put it on .I found it to be interesting ...Patric ...

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post #18 of 33 Old Dec 16th, 2005, 8:17 am
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Question Would you do it?

Hi Guys. I bought a '99 LT this July from Lone Star with 9k miles on it. I'm now at 16k and would rather not have a failure

Since 99's seem to dominate the failure survey, would you make this replacement if this were yours to reduce the possibility of failure?

Is the new 17 ball bearing a cure-all for this problem, or have these failed too?

The other option I suppose would be change drive oil every 6k and monitor. I changed this when I bought the bike and found only "metal fuzz" on the plug, no chips or significant metal.

Thanks.
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post #19 of 33 Old Dec 16th, 2005, 8:38 am
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Schedule it.

I certainly would schedule replacement of the rear bearing if I had the option,
otherwise you could end up like this or much worse.


http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1248


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post #20 of 33 Old Dec 16th, 2005, 9:02 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mneblett
A true proffessinal has BFHs in small, medium and large For example, I found the little 3 lb one to be a "perfect fit" to the piece of 3/16" steel plate that needed to be "convinced" to become a horn mount bracket last night.
Wouldn't that be a SFH, MFH and LFH?

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post #21 of 33 Old Dec 16th, 2005, 9:12 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EncoreJoe
Hi Guys. I bought a '99 LT this July from Lone Star with 9k miles on it. I'm now at 16k and would rather not have a failure

Since 99's seem to dominate the failure survey, would you make this replacement if this were yours to reduce the possibility of failure?

Is the new 17 ball bearing a cure-all for this problem, or have these failed too?

The other option I suppose would be change drive oil every 6k and monitor. I changed this when I bought the bike and found only "metal fuzz" on the plug, no chips or significant metal.

Thanks.
I had the bearing replaced on my 2001 model, but since it is toast I'll never know if it was the cure. It did give me some peace of mind, though. From what I have gleaned from our gurus the failure could be the combination of the 19 balls and the possible damage during installation at the assembly plant. I believe the word is "spalling" on the interior of the races. In my case, the bearing that came out of mine seems perfectly fine, and the failure rate is purportedy very small, but the anxiety can be high. And since El Jeffe's had just failed, I did not feel like taking a chance on the trip to CCR in Breckenridge and back. It was cheaper than hotel bills and towing charges would have been, even if BMW had covered the repair bill. Also, the failure rate does not seem to be affected by frequent oil changes. Several times there were failures soon after an oil change where no adverse indications were found. It's a crap shoot.

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post #22 of 33 Old Dec 16th, 2005, 9:34 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randy
Wouldn't that be a SFH, MFH and LFH?
It's not the heft of the hammer, but the swagger of the swinger that counts!

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post #23 of 33 Old Dec 16th, 2005, 10:38 am
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Hi, Joe - lemme share this with ya. Ole Toad's (a '99 from Lone Star) rear drive bearing went out at 64K+ miles, with no prior indication. Fact is, all the fluids were changed at 57K and nothing indicated a problem. Long run to Gatlinburg and half way back home, it went. I'm pretty sure Lone Star put in the 17-ball bearing, butt at this moment, I'm not positive; and BMW did pick up the good-will warranty for the work.

Having said that, several other locals have had their bearing pre-emptively changed at the 50K+ mileage and *all* of 'em have said the 19-ball one that came out looked spankin' new. Grif, who just had Barbara's changed at roughly 50K, said the same thang. Munson's OEM bearing looked good - Dave Moore's looked good - I believe Monte Roger's looked good - soooo, I do think these guyz have a leetle more peace of mind now that they have the 17-ball unit and the failure reports on that particular bearing have seemed to indicate far fewer failures than the older 19-ball unit. Now that could be cuz of the lesser mileage to date, being racked up by the 17. Butt at any rate, these guyz don't talk about bearing failures as much as they used to!!!

Ole Toad is gonna have the current bearing (17 or 19) swapped sometime early next year, with 110K on the clock and 46K on the bearing. Butt even if we weren't gonna change it, I wouldn't worry 'bout it --- I quit worrying a long time ago 'bout it failing - I'm a 'make lemonade' type and there are too many other thangs that need undivided attention while on the road.

BTW - if you do decide to have your's changed, lemme know when and where and I'll come to meetcha over a cup or ?

Hank at Rhinewest would be a day trip for ya, while Lone Star may be a leetle harder to do a day-light turnaround. Either one, I'm still up for a handshake and a cup.

Take care, Joe - ride safe.
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post #24 of 33 Old Dec 16th, 2005, 11:54 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randy
Wouldn't that be a SFH, MFH and LFH?
Nope, that's SBFH, MBFH and LBFH

A LFH is used to drive 6 penny nails; a 3 lb. sledge barely qualifies as a SBFH

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post #25 of 33 Old Dec 16th, 2005, 4:08 pm
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What would this hammer be classified as?


A BFH user's wet dream

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post #26 of 33 Old Dec 16th, 2005, 5:03 pm
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Wink Found it ..Link that is

I found the link to the final drive repair on the Adventure Rider web sight .. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...+drive+bearing ... Snip ... haven't done it at the side of the road - but i've done it outside of my garage, with the tools that i would have with me on a tour , just to prove to myself that it could be done - tyre levers to remove the old bearing, heat up the new bearing on the exhaust pipes and it drops straight on, re-use the shim fitted. No special tools required .

I've had to many of these jobs come in, to take my chances going on a long tour without the bearing and seal .

Some friends from UKGSER are touring in morocco at the moment, they have a spare bearing and seal with them, i'd given one of the riders a run through of the job, before they went, just in case they had to do it on the road .
I think this guy must be related to Mcdiver or something ...Patric ...

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post #27 of 33 Old Dec 16th, 2005, 5:48 pm Thread Starter
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Man, I don't think tire irons would get the bearing off. Seriously. Takes A LOT of force and if it got sideways just a squench, well, the fun begins again. Also, getting just the rotor off with a hex key, I dunno. Beeger man than I'll ever be.



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post #28 of 33 Old Dec 17th, 2005, 12:06 am
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[QUOTE=Dick]Hi, Joe - lemme share this with ya. Ole Toad's (a '99 from Lone Star) rear drive bearing went out at 64K+ miles, with no prior indication. Fact is, all the fluids were changed at 57K and nothing indicated a problem. Long run to Gatlinburg and half way back home, it went. I'm pretty sure Lone Star put in the 17-ball bearing, butt at this moment, I'm not positive; and BMW did pick up the good-will warranty for the work.

So Dick, how did you get Ole Toad back to Austin?

My last failure happened in Eastern Washington and I had to rent a U-haul furniture truck to haul it to Coeur d' Alene and pay full price for a new rear drive unit. I too, don't know if it has the 17 or 19 ball bearing but since it was replaced in September of 04, I hope it is the 17 ball unit.



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post #29 of 33 Old Dec 17th, 2005, 6:28 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
Whew. We didn't even drop the whole rear from the bike. Just took out the assembly and left the rear housing. I reckon you didn't get it cold enough and can prolly see where the beauty of the press came in. No jacking either, just push a pedal. Ah, if it was all that easy. Usually sweating, crying and gnashing of teeth.
Well, I'd like to see how you change the pinion seal without removing the final drive! We used a hydraulic press to install the new bearing; however, we didn't have the proper attachments to remove the old bearing with it. We did put the crown gear/old bearing in the freezer for about 2 hours while we did the pinion seal (and replaced the rear tire). I suppose we could have left it in the freezer for a few hours but that would have added a lot of time to the process. I had thought that dry ice may have been a help but we didn't have any. As far as replacing this bearing while "on the road", you'd have to pull a U-haul full of tools along where ever you rode (I'd like to see the hydraulic press that will fit into my top-box - oh, and of course, a freezer).

Mike Kiesel

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post #30 of 33 Old Dec 17th, 2005, 8:07 am
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Quote:
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Well, I'd like to see how you change the pinion seal without removing the final drive!
Hey, Mike -- I'm speaking out of turn for Grif, but there's no need to do the pinion seal; only the crown gear bearing and seal need to be replaced on most drives (those where the final drive was not pushed so long that the rear wheel got "floppy" and chewed up the inner tapered bearing , crown/pinion gear teth, etc.). So, no need to remove the drive to get to the pinion seal.

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post #31 of 33 Old Dec 17th, 2005, 9:32 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMMRoad

So Dick, how did you get Ole Toad back to Austin?

Jerry
Hey, Jerry - howdy. Great to meetcha at Lone Star's open house gig. It's great to grab a table real close to Karla Kay's dessert spread, huh???

When ole Toad's bearing went south, we were heading west, in Clinton, MS., returning home from Gatlinburg CCR 3. The rowdy gang I wuz with (Grif-Sandy; Watts-Dorrie; Debbie) insisted we stay right there for the night, so we grabbed a brand new motel with a super on-duty manager, who told us about a super restaurant right around the corner. (We invited her to go with us, butt she wuz busy!). So that evening, we enjoyed a great dinner; got a good nights sleep; and hit the road the next morning - leaving ole Toad out in the parking lot. Luckily, Monte's wife, Debbie, wuz driving her cage at the time, so I became the chauffeur and we trucked on home. Next week or so, I rented one of them motorcycle specific U-Haul trailers; hooked it up to Grif's La Trucka and drove out to rescue ole Toad and deliver to Lone Star. I tell ya, couldn't have scripted it any better. When you're traveling with a bunch of really good folks, they definitely do the "make lemonade" cliche' work. I'll alwayz remember that trip, and in a 'good' memory.

Sorry for the long answer to the question, Jerry - butt anyhow, that's how ole Toad got to Lone Star for the fix. Sounds like your leetle episode wuzn't as much fun!!!
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post #32 of 33 Old Dec 18th, 2005, 12:09 am Thread Starter
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Did you know Dick eats Altoids like, well, candy to stay awake? We finally called it a night early in the morning in Waco and when I awoke, the room had a very nice smell to it!



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post #33 of 33 Old Dec 18th, 2005, 8:14 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
Did you know Dick eats Altoids like, well, candy to stay awake? We finally called it a night early in the morning in Waco and when I awoke, the room had a very nice smell to it!
Altoids?? I thought you told me those were No-Doze!! Now I know why you were snoring when it wuz my turn at the wheel!!

And I ain't talkin' 'bout no nice smellin' room!!!
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