Swing arm disaster??? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 21 Old Feb 2nd, 2008, 9:38 pm Thread Starter
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Unhappy Swing arm disaster???

This may be my worst day ever! I started performing 48k maintenance in the morning and had progressed to removing the swing arm for slave cylinder drilling.

I had tried to budge the swing arm's right 30mm ring several times and was heating it and soaking it with penetrant.

End of the day I was tired and should have stopped but I tried one more time and TIGHTENED IT about a quarter turn without thinking. It didn't feel right so I stopped and realized what I had done.

Tried some heating cycles again and tried loosening it but now the outer threaded ring is turning too.

I can't believe I would be so stupid. A clutch failure would have been better! Is there any hope?

Joe

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post #2 of 21 Old Feb 2nd, 2008, 10:20 pm
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The outer ring is an insert that is installed by heating the frame and chilling the insert. It is a tight fit then it has a bolt from the inside that secures it from rotating. Try letting everything cool down and then try to break free the 30 mm ring. Use a cheater pipe on the breaker bar and give a good shot. The cooling may help hold the insert in place and allow it to break the ring free. You normally don't use heat to remove the ring unless some one has used loctite on it. Get a good nights sleep and all may be well in the morning.

I guess I should have also said been there, done that. I can remember more than once a job that with better judgement I would have had less work to do. You are not alone.

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Last edited by jzeiler; Feb 2nd, 2008 at 10:36 pm.
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post #3 of 21 Old Feb 2nd, 2008, 10:46 pm
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take good notes. I want to do this at some time.

Soon you will be an expert !!!!!

things will get better.

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? when to ASUME, and HOW MUCH should you ASUME, safely ?
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post #4 of 21 Old Feb 3rd, 2008, 7:17 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
The outer ring is an insert that is installed by heating the frame and chilling the insert. It is a tight fit then it has a bolt from the inside that secures it from rotating. Try letting everything cool down and then try to break free the 30 mm ring. Use a cheater pipe on the breaker bar and give a good shot. The cooling may help hold the insert in place and allow it to break the ring free. You normally don't use heat to remove the ring unless some one has used loctite on it. Get a good nights sleep and all may be well in the morning.

I guess I should have also said been there, done that. I can remember more than once a job that with better judgement I would have had less work to do. You are not alone.
I agree, let it get COLD, even put some ice on it for a while, and try it again. You want the aluminum housing to shrink down and get tight again on the insert. As stated, heat only helps these if someone put Loctite on them, which is not supposed to be done.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

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post #5 of 21 Old Feb 3rd, 2008, 8:34 am Thread Starter
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Still trying!

Thanks for the advice and encouragement gentlemen. I need it!

I tried holding a bag of ice on the area this morning, Mr. Shealey, and it was holding better but the insert ring began to turn as I put my weight on the breaker bar. (Yes, I was loosening it! )

I thought about getting some component cooling spray from Radio Shack and spraying that on the area around the ring to cool it down better and try again later.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks.

Joe

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post #6 of 21 Old Feb 3rd, 2008, 10:24 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EncoreJoe
Any other suggestions?
Thanks.
Joe
Air tools may be the ticket.

Good Luck

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post #7 of 21 Old Feb 3rd, 2008, 11:12 am
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Hi Joe

Today I tried to loosen the right ring using a breaker bar extended with a 3 foot length of scaffold pole.

I could feel the bar beginning to bend and the nut would not shift.

I tried the left hand side which loosened with one hell of a crack and sent the socket flying.

Back to the right side - I hooked up my 1/2 inch drive air impact wrench (120psi). It loosened the ring immediately.

I did not use heat at any time.

If you can access some air tools it might do the job.

Regards and good luck.

Chris
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post #8 of 21 Old Feb 3rd, 2008, 11:45 am
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I don't know if any of this will help. I have the swing arm removed from my bike waiting for a slave cylinder I have ordered. I had a look at the area you speak of and have taken a picture from both sides of the hole. The hole that you see at about the 7:30 position on the first picture is the threaded hole for the bolt referred to by jzeiler. That Allen head bolt on the back side is shown in the second picture at about the 4:30 position. I don't know wether the bike frame at that point is solid and made of aluminum or is hollow. Looking at the drilled and tapped hole referred to in the first picture, I would say it is solid. Looking at the insert piece that is slipping on you, it looks like it has a flange on the back side that makes it larger in diameter than the actual part that inserts into the bike frame.

My point in all this is, if the ideas you have from David Shealey and jzeiler are not working to hold the insert enough to remove the 30mm nut, it may be helpful to drill and tap another hole from the outside of the frame completely through to the other side, being careful not to damage anything on the other side. It looks like your best option for that second hole would be in about the 1:30 position as you look at it from the position of the first picture. I believe the most likely potential for damage would be the rubber boot that connects to the transmission output shaft housing. This hole should be as straight as possible and tapped all the way through permitting a second Allen head bolt to be threaded all the way through until it penetrates through the back side of the insert and, hopefully, locks it in place again.

If this is something that you are comfortable with doing (desperate measures for desperate situations) I would suggest the cooling etc. that David Shealey talks about be performed and then another attempt be made.

If this works, and you are able to successfully complete the removal, I would suggest removing the second Allen bolt and reinserting it from the backside and leaving it to help secure the insert. Maybe using some locktite thread locker to help secure it.

I don't profess to be an expert about any of this. Just happened to have mine apart and thought I'd take a closer look at things to see if there might be other options. If others can chime in here to either confirm or discredit my thinking I am sure it will be helpful. I wouldn't want to help create further problems for EncoreJoe.

HTH
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post #9 of 21 Old Feb 3rd, 2008, 12:48 pm Thread Starter
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I may be saved!

AJS,

That's great, thanks for the pictures! I felt behind and found that the allen head bolt is sheared in half - just enough to let the ring turn past.

It's mating point on the flange is now at about the 10:00 position.

I'm going to drill out that sheared bolt and replace it with one of the footrest bolts temporarily when it get's in the right position if the flange continues to turn.

I'm also going to try an impact wrench to see if it breaks loose. Once everything is removed I can replace that allen bolt properly from the backside like you suggested.

I'll keep you informed.

Joe

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post #10 of 21 Old Feb 3rd, 2008, 2:07 pm
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Impact should take it right out. If you don't have air, they do have them in electric.

B D R
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post #11 of 21 Old Feb 3rd, 2008, 3:20 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunny
Impact should take it right out. If you don't have air, they do have them in electric.
Right....Should. I used a 3/4" air impact rated at least 1000 ft/lbs and uped the air pressure to 130psi. No luck. finally had to drill it out.

dan
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post #12 of 21 Old Feb 3rd, 2008, 3:34 pm
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I have never had this problem before, but if I did have one so tight I could not break it loose I would resort to drilling/Dremelling the nut down to very near the threads (without cutting into the threads of the insert), then a couple good hits with a chisel or punch in toward the center should break/deform the nut and causing it to release it's grip on the threads of the insert. Then buy a new nut.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
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post #13 of 21 Old Feb 3rd, 2008, 9:44 pm Thread Starter
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Still working

I had to take a break and see the Super Bowl with my nephew in Columbus, TX this afternoon (first football game I've seen all year).

I need to dress the hole for the bolt that holds the insert tab a little better to remove the rest of the sheared allen bolt and then rotate the insert back into position and can have a go with an impact again.

I tried an el-cheapo impact wrench today but it didn't have enough torque. One of my friends is a John Deere mechanic and I'll borrow one of his his and give it another try once the insert is locked from rotating.

This 30mm business is starting to intimidate me a little. Thanks again for your support and comments. I may even be able to sleep tonight!

Joe

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post #14 of 21 Old Feb 3rd, 2008, 10:04 pm
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Take a look at John's video here: Swing Arm Nut

He makes it look so easy. Good luck. It should be this easy once you get that bolt back in.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #15 of 21 Old Feb 4th, 2008, 8:23 pm Thread Starter
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Made a little progress

Well, I dremeled out most of the allen screw head that holds the threaded insert from turning.

I've got the threaded insert in the right position now, and used a tap die handle of the right size to stop the insert from turning.

I put a "little" pressure on it and broke my 3/4"female x 1/2" male Snap-On adaptor, so at least the insert is not turning. That's progress, right?

I think I'll work on the remainder of that Allen screw so I can get a full size bolt in there and then borrow an impact wrench and give it a try.

I didn't tear up anything on the bike today, so maybe I'm learning

Has anyone ever taken their bike to a BMW shop and just paid them to break the 30mm nut loose? That doesn't sound too bad right now.

Taking the rest of the night off....Joe

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post #16 of 21 Old Feb 4th, 2008, 9:01 pm
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If you do give up,and I don't think you are there yet,take to a machine shop. They will fix it. Unless of course you take it to Lone Star,everybody else is playing catch-up.

dan
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post #17 of 21 Old Feb 7th, 2008, 10:28 am Thread Starter
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Red face I give up!

I've decided I don't have what it takes to get the 30mm bolt loose. I've got a 1/4" bolt locating the insert sleeve but impact wrench does nothing and I've broken my second 3/4 x 1/2" adaptor trying to loosen it.

I've made an appointment with Lone Star in Austin to replace the slave and transmission seals. They said they give a 24 month warranty for that work but will not drill the weep hole without voiding the warranty.

I think I'll just let them do it and will have 24 months not to think about the clutch.

That gives me a week to finish other maintenance and replace brakes and throttle cables before I trailer it in to them.

Live and learn....

EncoreJoe

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post #18 of 21 Old Feb 7th, 2008, 10:44 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EncoreJoe
I've decided I don't have what it takes to get the 30mm bolt loose. I've got a 1/4" bolt locating the insert sleeve but impact wrench does nothing and I've broken my second 3/4 x 1/2" adaptor trying to loosen it.

I've made an appointment with Lone Star in Austin to replace the slave and transmission seals. They said they give a 24 month warranty for that work but will not drill the weep hole without voiding the warranty.

I think I'll just let them do it and will have 24 months not to think about the clutch.

That gives me a week to finish other maintenance and replace brakes and throttle cables before I trailer it in to them.

Live and learn....
Joe, Better safe than sorry! You tried your best and hit a roadblock, it was time to call in the pros. I think you made a wise decision.

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post #19 of 21 Old Feb 7th, 2008, 11:43 am
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I agree, you really gave it a good try. You have probably made the best decision at this point. Best of luck to you. I'd be interested to know the outcome from the dealer. Particularly since, unless I misunderstand your previous thread, the nut is overtightened now.

FWIW I was going to drill my slave cylinder a year ago but decided against it because of warranty issues. My bike is out of warranty now so I decided to do it. even while not knowing what to expect with all the swing arm removal stories on this site. I am happy to say it separated with very little effort. Just the snap-on 1/2" power bar, a simple pipe extension and David Shealeys 30 mm socket. A loud crack at time of release and finger removal from there. I consider myself among the lucky ones. I am waiting on the arrival of a new slave cylinder before I do the reassembly. Getting the torques right here is another story, here's hoping
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post #20 of 21 Old Feb 7th, 2008, 2:12 pm Thread Starter
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Hoping for the best

Yes, I'm interested to see how they will get it loose. I didn't try again seriously after I got the insert fixed in place with a 1/4" bolt.

I'm going to take the advice of others and just expect things to break, fix them and keep riding.

I have ordered a new 30mm nut from Max BMW in case the old one is damaged in removal. I just decided to let someone else damage it!

If you need me, I'll be sitting in the garage in sackcloth and ashes...

Joe

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post #21 of 21 Old Feb 7th, 2008, 2:27 pm
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Joe, I am familiar with the sackcloth and ashes. Will be in your area this Saturday. Love to get together and chat.
PM me if interested.

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