Questions: What is final drive failure and clutch slave failure? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 10 Old Jan 28th, 2008, 9:03 am Thread Starter
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Questions: What is final drive failure and clutch slave failure?

Please don't slam me. I'm a K12LT newbie (or hope to be by the end of this week 2000 K1200LT w/40k miles) and wonder if there is a simple explanation on what these failures are? What parts wear out and what the "cost" of the parts are? And seperate if possible what labor goes along with repair.

I'm trying to figure out what it cost and if there is room for me to do some or all of the work to save some $$. Understanding from what I've read that the FD failure is about 4%, not sure what the slave failure rate is, I might not even have to deal with this if I'm lucky. Also are these seals, orings, or whatever is the failure points are a normal service item that should be changed at a certain mileage interval?
Thank you for your replies.....
Hip

1985 K100RT 90k
1981 R100RT 56k miles Sold
2000 K1200LT 48k miles Sold
2003 Victory Vegas-12k miles Sold
1982 Suzuki GS550L only 299 miles Sold
1997 Yamaha Vmax-15k miles Sold
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1996 R1100RT-27k miles Sold
1995 K1100LT-85k miles Sold
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post #2 of 10 Old Jan 28th, 2008, 6:05 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hip001
Please don't slam me. I'm a K12LT newbie (or hope to be by the end of this week 2000 K1200LT w/40k miles) and wonder if there is a simple explanation on what these failures are? What parts wear out and what the "cost" of the parts are? And seperate if possible what labor goes along with repair.

Hip:
Final drive failures are caused by the Deep Groove Roller bearing failing on the rear wheel hub. There is a lot of speculation what causes these failures but nothing has been proven. Majority of failures are between 20&30K miles. After 30K the failure rate drops off. Depending on your mechanical skill level the repairs can be done for less than $400. If dealer does the work 2 - 3 times that depending on what requires replacement.

Labor: This again depends on what has failed. If the failure is caught early enough you usually only have to replace the bearing and output seal. Depending on age and milage you may have to replace the paralever pivot bearings also. These are the Pivot bearings for the final drive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hip001
I'm trying to figure out what it cost and if there is room for me to do some or all of the work to save some $$. Understanding from what I've read that the FD failure is about 4%, not sure what the slave failure rate is, I might not even have to deal with this if I'm lucky. Also are these seals, orings, or whatever is the failure points are a normal service item that should be changed at a certain mileage interval?
Thank you for your replies.....
Hip
Hip,
I think there are several members of this forum that would probably be willing to give you a hand IF you require it.

Roy

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post #3 of 10 Old Jan 29th, 2008, 5:47 am
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Hip,

The final drive main bearing is prone to failure. Nobody knows why exactly and I'm not going to speculate. The newer bikes seem to have far fewer failures. A new bearing is about $150 and a couple of hours labor. The bad news is that your dealer is very unlikely to rebuild the final drive correctly and your probably better off doing it yourself with help from this forum. The good news is that you can buy a brand new drive from Chicago BMW for about $800. I think this would be the best route to go if you do have a drive failure.

The slave cylinders wear out over time and need to be replaced. The last several I have worked on were done in about 2 hours. If your doing one for the first time plan on taking an entire day to swap it out. A new slave cylinder is less than $100 IIRC. The bigger problem with a failed slave is that it can potentially contaminate the clutch. Replacing the clutch will require about $500 in parts and about 20 hours of labor if you do it yourself. The total bill from a dealer would be about $1500. This is the reason that many people are drilling a weep hole for the slave cylinder. If the slave cylinder fails the fluid will drain to the ground instead of onto the clutch.

Good Luck,
Kevin

1999 K1200LT, patiently waiting for a new model.
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post #4 of 10 Old Jan 29th, 2008, 7:00 am Thread Starter
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Thank you!

Bigbear & Kevin,
I would be tempted to work on it myself with the help and advise from you LT Gurus on this board and in my area! Although the $800 drive complete might be a time saving option also. If/when it does go the decision will depend on my current obligations for both time and money. And if it went the week before a planned ride(or Bike Week) I'd have to add the time to repair into the equation.
Thank you so much for the explanations!

1985 K100RT 90k
1981 R100RT 56k miles Sold
2000 K1200LT 48k miles Sold
2003 Victory Vegas-12k miles Sold
1982 Suzuki GS550L only 299 miles Sold
1997 Yamaha Vmax-15k miles Sold
1996 Suzuki DR650-17k miles Sold
1996 R1100RT-27k miles Sold
1995 K1100LT-85k miles Sold
1982 Honda CB900F-33k mikes Sold
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post #5 of 10 Old Jan 29th, 2008, 8:51 pm
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Hip01,

Enjoy your 2000LT. I love my 2000LTC. I know that all this talk about final drive failures, leaky slave cylinders makes that little red peddle tricycle seem so much more friendly.

4% failure rate..that means theres a 96% non-failure rate. At least that is how I look at it because the rest of this stuff scares the %%#* out of me.

I know I gotta drill them holes, some day (probably the day after I needed to ) I will.

My problem is almost everyday is a potential riding day here..tearing her apart is about the time they call and tell me about the ride leaving in a little while.

PROUD FATHER OF A MILITARY DAUGHTER !.
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post #6 of 10 Old Jan 29th, 2008, 9:21 pm Thread Starter
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KIC,
Same here. I can ride almost every day, year around. If you're not afraid of getting a lil wet some times. Tell you the truth, this is one of the main reasons I want another BMW. My two previous BMW's (95 LT & 96 RT) could keep me almost dry while moving. My shoes and the top of my legs would be the only wet parts. I really don't mind getting wet as long as it is on the way home I am looking forward to riding the "Best" touring bike made!

1985 K100RT 90k
1981 R100RT 56k miles Sold
2000 K1200LT 48k miles Sold
2003 Victory Vegas-12k miles Sold
1982 Suzuki GS550L only 299 miles Sold
1997 Yamaha Vmax-15k miles Sold
1996 Suzuki DR650-17k miles Sold
1996 R1100RT-27k miles Sold
1995 K1100LT-85k miles Sold
1982 Honda CB900F-33k mikes Sold
BMWMOA 138762[/I]
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post #7 of 10 Old Jan 30th, 2008, 9:02 am Thread Starter
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Final drive

So when the final drive goes, does this keep the bike from moving or does it just make a bunch of noise?

1985 K100RT 90k
1981 R100RT 56k miles Sold
2000 K1200LT 48k miles Sold
2003 Victory Vegas-12k miles Sold
1982 Suzuki GS550L only 299 miles Sold
1997 Yamaha Vmax-15k miles Sold
1996 Suzuki DR650-17k miles Sold
1996 R1100RT-27k miles Sold
1995 K1100LT-85k miles Sold
1982 Honda CB900F-33k mikes Sold
BMWMOA 138762[/I]
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post #8 of 10 Old Jan 30th, 2008, 9:20 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hip001
So when the final drive goes, does this keep the bike from moving or does it just make a bunch of noise?
Your bike will no longer be able to roll as the bearing is gone... Very few instances of locked rear wheel though, and you should stop riding as soon as you feel the FD has failed.

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post #9 of 10 Old Jan 30th, 2008, 9:29 am
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Bigbear said, "If the failure is caught early enough..."

What are the early signs of FDF? How do you catch it before the wheel locks up completely? Is there something you can check periodically, like putting the bike up on the centerstand and turning the wheel by hand once a week to see if you notice an increase in resistance?

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post #10 of 10 Old Jan 30th, 2008, 11:41 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juggler
Bigbear said, "If the failure is caught early enough..."

What are the early signs of FDF? How do you catch it before the wheel locks up completely? Is there something you can check periodically, like putting the bike up on the centerstand and turning the wheel by hand once a week to see if you notice an increase in resistance?
Seems like that is the best way, lay hands on it, turn the rear wheel and see if you feel roughness or drag, or hear anything odd.

Also the inspection of the drain plug on service, and the oil looking for big sparklers in it or on the plug.

They are the only two checks I have read here.

Lee
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