V6 and Weight Loss - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 36 Old Oct 29th, 2007, 7:14 am Thread Starter
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V6 and Weight Loss

Just got back from my first test ride of an '07 R1200GS (I'm absolutely smitten and head over heels in love with it!).

While chatting with the salesman, I asked him when's the next LT coming. I was not expecting any worthwhile response, however, he seemed quite sure about the following ...

"It is coming as an '09 model but it will be an early release '09 that will arrive in the showrooms sometime in April of next year. We've only ordered one '08 because we expect sales to dwindle quickly on the '08's once word of this gets out. It will have a bigger engine and it will be a V6. It will not weigh quite as much as the current model."

May be time to press your dealer for more info ...


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post #2 of 36 Old Oct 29th, 2007, 7:56 am
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I heard exactly the same thing from a dealer here on the west coast. Either their propaganda is really coordinated or their talking out of school. Wondering if RB racing will fit a turbocharger to it.

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post #3 of 36 Old Oct 29th, 2007, 7:58 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rusmckay
I heard exactly the same thing from a dealer here on the west coast. Either their propaganda is really coordinated or their talking out of school. Wondering if RB racing will fit a turbocharger to it.
My money is on BMW using the same clutch and FD on the '09 model!

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post #4 of 36 Old Oct 29th, 2007, 8:08 pm
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After a while, you keep hearing rumors, you stop listening..

I think I have made it to that point.
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post #5 of 36 Old Oct 29th, 2007, 11:10 pm
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Interesting. The latest I've heard is that after the remaining LTs are sold (35 total in the US at this point IIRC) that will be the end of the LT line. The GT sales are brisk and steady to climbing, with much of that coming from former LT riders, so they don't want to cannibalize sales by introducing a comptetitive model in their own line-up. Coupling that with their push for attracting a younger demographic and I can see them letting the LT go the way of the dodo.

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post #6 of 36 Old Oct 29th, 2007, 11:29 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidTaylor
Interesting. The latest I've heard is that after the remaining LTs are sold (35 total in the US at this point IIRC) that will be the end of the LT line. The GT sales are brisk and steady to climbing, with much of that coming from former LT riders, so they don't want to cannibalize sales by introducing a comptetitive model in their own line-up. Coupling that with their push for attracting a younger demographic and I can see them letting the LT go the way of the dodo.
I offer a friendly wager of $1 David.

I wager there WILL BE a next generation LT and it will be driven by a 6 cyl. derivative of the current K-series motor. Care to hold against that saying there will be no mo LT?
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post #7 of 36 Old Oct 30th, 2007, 12:01 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidTaylor
Interesting. The latest I've heard is that after the remaining LTs are sold (35 total in the US at this point IIRC) that will be the end of the LT line. The GT sales are brisk and steady to climbing, with much of that coming from former LT riders, so they don't want to cannibalize sales by introducing a comptetitive model in their own line-up. Coupling that with their push for attracting a younger demographic and I can see them letting the LT go the way of the dodo.
We just recieved our 1st 2008 LT. They care NOT going to discontinue the bike. There will be a new one...

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post #8 of 36 Old Oct 30th, 2007, 12:16 am
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FWIW,

I got the same story on the 6cy LT for 09 here in So Cal from the owner of a local dealership. His "hunch" wink, wink was almost word for word what was given to you guys on the right coast.

This guy has been around a good spell and this is not the first time I asked about the LT replacement. I was surprised he offered up anything at all. Either he just wanted to shut me up or there might be something to this rumor / hunch thing.

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post #9 of 36 Old Oct 30th, 2007, 8:44 am
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Mine too.....

My dealer stated the same. 09 model, 6 cylinder.

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post #10 of 36 Old Oct 30th, 2007, 9:02 am
 
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See if you guys can get more info on this new LT... Find out if they are changing the clutch and FD... If they make an attempt to improve it's reliability, I may put off purchasing the Concourse and buy the New 09LT. I like the sound of a 6cyl. in that bike, and lighter to boot!!!!!
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post #11 of 36 Old Oct 30th, 2007, 9:16 am
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Weight issue

Here is the real wait issue. Wait until 2011 and get one for 60% of the original price with 95% of the life left in it.
Rock

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post #12 of 36 Old Oct 30th, 2007, 11:42 am
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How do they add two cylinders and drop the weight?

For me, anyway, a big draw was getting a touring motorcycle that still managed to keep the engine size down. The GW is nice enough, but that 1800cc 6 was more than I wanted. (FWIW)

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post #13 of 36 Old Oct 30th, 2007, 12:35 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
I offer a friendly wager of $1 David.

I wager there WILL BE a next generation LT and it will be driven by a 6 cyl. derivative of the current K-series motor. Care to hold against that saying there will be no mo LT?
Cool, I guess it was my turn to stir the pot.

Honestly, I really do hope a new LT comes out. I would love the power of the GT with more torque, lighter weight and lower CoG than current LT, at least near GT handling, most of the basic farkles included (HID, decent comm system with connects for radar, GPS iPod, integrated satellite radio, etc.), and a large fuel cell (7+ gallons). Obviously cruise control, ESA, heated seat and grips, electrically adjustable windscreen, 6 gear tranny, and the like should be a must. I do hope they unlink or only partially link the brakes.

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post #14 of 36 Old Oct 30th, 2007, 12:37 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidTaylor
Cool, I guess it was my turn to stir the pot.

Honestly, I really do hope a new LT comes out. I would love the power of the GT with more torque, lighter weight and lower CoG than current LT, at least near GT handling, most of the basic farkles included (HID, decent comm system with connects for radar, GPS iPod, integrated satellite radio, etc.), and a large fuel cell (7+ gallons). Obviously cruise control, ESA, heated seat and grips, electrically adjustable windscreen, 6 gear tranny, and the like should be a must. I do hope they unlink or only partially link the brakes.
Does that mean you do not hold your initial belief? LOL. No wager?
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post #15 of 36 Old Oct 30th, 2007, 1:31 pm
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Originally Posted by UncleRock
Here is the real wait issue. Wait until 2011 and get one for 60% of the original price with 95% of the life left in it.
Rock
Yeah, and never buy the first year model of anything with wheels. Let them work the bugs out first.

Oh, I forgot, BMW is still working on the FD issue, aren't they?

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post #16 of 36 Old Oct 30th, 2007, 2:35 pm
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A dealer here also said 09. Did not specify V6 but did say there would be a significant change and of course more $$$.

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post #17 of 36 Old Oct 30th, 2007, 3:57 pm
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I figure I'll be ready to trade in the '07 around '11. Two years into a new model and the bugs should be worked out.

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post #18 of 36 Old Oct 30th, 2007, 3:59 pm
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Be interesting to see if it will be a gas guzzler like the Goldwing and then there is the final drive issue.

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post #19 of 36 Old Oct 30th, 2007, 4:56 pm
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There will be quite a few 2008 models with the same 'flying brick' engine. They have relegated it to a specific run on the production line and there may be enough for 2008 demand or they may run out like they did for the 2007 model year.

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post #20 of 36 Old Oct 31st, 2007, 12:25 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
Does that mean you do not hold your initial belief? LOL. No wager?
Belief is such a stong word. Just sharing what I heard and my opinion about those thoughts. How about I buy you a beer the next time I see you and we'll call it even.

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post #21 of 36 Old Oct 31st, 2007, 2:35 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
Does that mean you do not hold your initial belief? LOL. No wager?
I remember making a bet with kdog here on the same thing (and for the same dollar amount) about 3 months ago Andy, I have said the next LT will be a 6 cyl for almost 2 years (I had some high quality information)

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25068

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post #22 of 36 Old Oct 31st, 2007, 9:37 am
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I have no "information" to go on, but my instinct as an engineer has for some time now been that the easiest approach for BMW would be to add two cylinders to the new K engine. It would be an inline, NOT a V-6. Not much engineering required to make a 6 out of the existing 4 of the new style engine. A V-6 would be a totally new from the ground up design (Millions $), not likely for the relatively small number of bikes to use it in.

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post #23 of 36 Old Oct 31st, 2007, 10:00 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy
There will be quite a few 2008 models with the same 'flying brick' engine. They have relegated it to a specific run on the production line and there may be enough for 2008 demand or they may run out like they did for the 2007 model year.
My local dealer has only 1 (one) 08 LT in the showroom after not having any for at least a couple of months. Before that they had at least 2 in the showroom at any given time. This sounds like a closeout to me, meaning 08 will be that last year of the LT as we know it. The dealer also thinks the 09 will be released before the other brands release their 09 models, indicating this will be a new model.
Let's wait and see.
In the meantime I am keeping my 05 for at least the next 2 CCRs...

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post #24 of 36 Old Oct 31st, 2007, 11:10 am
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Vw V6?

I wonder if the design will be similar to VW's compact V6


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post #25 of 36 Old Oct 31st, 2007, 11:32 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
I have no "information" to go on, but my instinct as an engineer has for some time now been that the easiest approach for BMW would be to add two cylinders to the new K engine. It would be an inline, NOT a V-6. Not much engineering required to make a 6 out of the existing 4 of the new style engine. A V-6 would be a totally new from the ground up design (Millions $), not likely for the relatively small number of bikes to use it in.
Same thing here, I have none whatsoever inside or outside information but to me it also sounds whopping that BMW would come out with a totally new engine design for just a new LT. They would never get their R&D money back.

I also disagree with some others here that claim GT to be a substitute for LT. No way! It is a nice bike in it's class but not at all a LUXURY touring bike. I test rode one for some 100 miles and the GT owner rode my LT at the same time.
I was not at all convinced about the GT but the GT owner traded his year old bike to a brand new LT a month later!

Soo if LT is dicontinued the playground will be left for Goldwings...

regards

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post #26 of 36 Old Oct 31st, 2007, 7:18 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pozo_izquierdo
Soo if LT is dicontinued the playground will be left for Goldwings...
If that happens, I hope Honda puts in an electric windshield adjuster. That reason alone would keep me off of a GL1800 (their lack of one). I've become addicted to the LT's adjustable windscreen.

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post #27 of 36 Old Oct 31st, 2007, 8:30 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heracleitus
I've become addicted to the LT's adjustable windscreen.
Just wait till you experience ESA.

The list grows:

ABS
Electric Windshield
Cruise Control
Heated Seats and Grips
ESA

Spoiled beyond words. Now, where's that damned air conditioned suit?



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post #28 of 36 Old Oct 31st, 2007, 9:07 pm
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All I'm hearing sounds quite good, V6, less weight, more farkles. But with the price of gas continuing to rise, maybe an overdrive or 7th gear would be in order so as to get better than 60 mpg. I've ridden the C14 and K1200GT, both are an improvement. But gas mileage has not improved on any of them. If you have 150 hp, there is no reason to have it ready to rock and roll at any micro-second, you can downshift if needed.

John

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post #29 of 36 Old Oct 31st, 2007, 10:08 pm
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Not a Believer in the V6 Rumor

Sorry, I'm not buying into the V6 rumors. A good business case can't be made for this idea. BMW doesn't sell enough LTs worldwide to justify the fresh design, engineering, testing and certification of a single purpose engine, not to mention the creation of a new manufacturing facility and line.

It would be far more likely, I think, for BMW to adapt the four cylinder engine currently used in the GT for use in a re-designed LT. Doing so would be good business, spreading the capital cost of the GT engine into another product line, making for a more efficient business.

Survival is all about efficiency. That's why we should expect to see a F800GS in the next year. It extends the product line without high development costs.

Rumors can have may intents, good and bad. One intent is to confuse the competition, another is to keep current owners from jumping to another brand (let's say Kawasaki for instance) that has a hot new product until BMW can release an updatede LT. I think rumor is intended to keep us in the family, not to leak product news.

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post #30 of 36 Old Oct 31st, 2007, 11:24 pm
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I agree, Mike. The GT platform with a retuned engine, different fairing/tupperware, ergonomics and new toys.



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post #31 of 36 Old Oct 31st, 2007, 11:25 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_H
Sorry, I'm not buying into the V6 rumors. A good business case can't be made for this idea. BMW doesn't sell enough LTs worldwide to justify the fresh design, engineering, testing and certification of a single purpose engine, not to mention the creation of a new manufacturing facility and line.

It would be far more likely, I think, for BMW to adapt the four cylinder engine currently used in the GT for use in a re-designed LT. Doing so would be good business, spreading the capital cost of the GT engine into another product line, making for a more efficient business.

Survival is all about efficiency. That's why we should expect to see a F800GS in the next year. It extends the product line without high development costs.

Rumors can have may intents, good and bad. One intent is to confuse the competition, another is to keep current owners from jumping to another brand (let's say Kawasaki for instance) that has a hot new product until BMW can release an updatede LT. I think rumor is intended to keep us in the family, not to leak product news.
I am ready to put some money on this rumor... would you be up for a dollar plus PayPal fees?

BMW does use other companies engines... Not that it will for the new LT but I'm just sayin'.

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post #32 of 36 Old Nov 1st, 2007, 12:40 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottydawg
I remember making a bet with kdog here on the same thing (and for the same dollar amount) about 3 months ago Andy, I have said the next LT will be a 6 cyl for almost 2 years (I had some high quality information)

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25068
In that thread I put my $1 on a 4-cylinder. I can no longer support that bet. I have learned a lot since July and IF there is a new LT, it will likely be a 6. BMW is testing a new platform based on a new engine which is supposed to be a 6-cylinder. While I have heard nothing about the configuration, I would be really surprised if it was anything other than the new 55-degree with a couple more cylinders.

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post #33 of 36 Old Nov 1st, 2007, 9:52 am
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geee.... ever seen the honda v5 racers...?

...maybe the extra cylinders on the new 6 are behind the 4 that already exist....

so the v-6 - instead of being 2 banks of 3 and 3 pots, would be four in the front and two in the rear.

with the right counterbalncers, one can do anything.

ever see a ducati supermono engine? ;-)

**** i LOOOOVE fanning the flames of speculation ;-) *****

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post #34 of 36 Old Nov 1st, 2007, 11:20 am
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My 2nd cousin (part of the Mueller family) works for BMW in Germany, he leaked these advance brochure pictures to me just a few days ago. He's probably going to get **** canned for doing this but he just could NOT resist:

It WILL be a 1.6L supercharged four cylinder engine with close to 175 hp to keep the GT's in the mirrors: Top speed will be 170 mph and 0-60 in 2.8 seconds.

In addition the 2010 K1600LTS will have:

Gyroscopic stabilizer ala the Segway to keep it from falling over when you stop.

One piece tire and rim combination and hollow non-pressuized tires. (optional)

Heads up windshield display.

Pressurized self leveling jacks instead of a center stand.

Electric driver seat that travels up/down, fore/aft.

Active noise cancelling Bose stereo system with integrated intercom - no helmet speakers required since you and the passenger are enveloped in a "cone of silence" once activated.

Infrared active heating system for cold weather riding.

A "micro drop" evaporative spray misting system for hot weather riding. The nozzles are located around the perimeter of the windshield.

Remotely adjustable tire pressures that will automatically adjust for low/high speed riding which will compensate for the dreaded "wobble" and "scalloping" as well as extend tire life to 30K front and rear.

... and last but not least a flexible shaft rear drive. No way they would ever go back in time to something simple and dependable like a belt drive.

My cousin's name is Joe.

Joe Isuzu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDK8BYS2d9s
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post #35 of 36 Old Nov 1st, 2007, 8:45 pm
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Originally Posted by RonKMiller
My 2nd cousin (part of the Mueller family) . . .

. . . My cousin's name is Joe.

Joe Isuzu.
That was the funniest post in a long, long time!

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post #36 of 36 Old Nov 2nd, 2007, 2:29 pm
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Wait. You mean I shouldn't have given my dealer a deposit on one?

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