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post #1 of 25 Old Oct 10th, 2007, 11:53 am Thread Starter
 
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Unhappy Fuel leak

Started yesterday after filling the gas tank. Rode home(about 4 miles) and noticed what smelled like gasoline about halfway home. Parked in the garage and noticed the smell even stronger. Noticed some clear liquid on the right side just a little forward of the brake pedal dripping down slowly. It stopped after awhile(about 3-5 minutes) with no further leaking.
Checked under the seat and the front end. Didn't see any oil leaks.
So I let it sit overnight. Got up this AM for a test ride to see if it would happen again. Sure enough after about a 3 minute stretch I stopped to check and the leak was there again. It stopped after a minute or two. Started the engine and the leak came right back.
So my question is: where should I start to troubleshoot it? Or should I get a professional wrench to look at it?
Thoughts: cannisterectomy?/leak from tank to engine?/fuel shutoff valve leak?/
Oh, no whosshing sound when opening the gas cap.
Any help at all appreciated..TIA
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post #2 of 25 Old Oct 10th, 2007, 12:00 pm
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I would pull the right side tupperware and check the quick disconnects. This seems to be a very common problem if you haven't upgraded to metal quick disconnects. Many people have been able to remove the disconnects and install a piece of metal tubing to join the two hoses. I would also plan on replacing the one time use crimp connectors while in there. I picked up screw clamp connectors at the auto parts store.

Res ipsa loquitur, sed quid in infernos dicet?

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post #3 of 25 Old Oct 10th, 2007, 12:01 pm
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Quick Disconnects

Sounds like the quick disconnects might be leaking. Either an o-ring on the disconnects or a possible crack in one of them. The disconnect if found right above the right tip over inside the upper right tupperware.

Brian Hubbard

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post #4 of 25 Old Oct 10th, 2007, 12:05 pm Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, guys..I've got me a starting point so I'm to have a go at it..

I'll be back if I need more help..
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post #5 of 25 Old Oct 10th, 2007, 12:12 pm
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+1 on the QDs. Metal replacements are pricey but bomb-proof. Check out this thread. Definitely worth pulling tupperware yourself and checking, the QDs are right there in your face after you get the right upper fairing panel off. Be prepared to catch whatever fuel's in your tank (if the QD breaks) unless you pinch the hose off.

Dave

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post #6 of 25 Old Oct 10th, 2007, 2:48 pm Thread Starter
 
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OK..it's squirting out from the inside QD connection. Is that an 'O' ring problem. It does not leak unless I have the ignition key in the on position. I guess that pressurizes the system, right?
Just for the record, I'm mech inclined but not experienced in wrenching and willing to learn so as to save a few bucks and keep the bike. I have limited resources but want to learn.
Is this doable by myself in replacing the 'O' ring or QD's? TIA
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post #7 of 25 Old Oct 10th, 2007, 3:59 pm
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Replacing the 0-ring or the quick disconnect is something you can do your self. If you want to just replace the o-ring, you need to separate the quick disconnect by depressing the silver colored latch. Once you have the two halves apart you should easily see the o-ring on the male quick disconnect. I think that it is a 011 Buna-N o-ring (but take it with you when you buy a new one). Should be available from almost any industrial supply house.

Replacing the quick disconnects is also easy. You will need to either empty the fuel tank or pinch off the line coming from the fuel tank. The quick disconnects probably have the crimp on BMW clamps. I find it best to use an awl or some other fairly sharp pointed tool to expand the crimp enough to get the hose off the quick disconnect. I replace the clamps with screw clamps I got at the auto parts store. It sounds more complicated than it actually is. HTH

Res ipsa loquitur, sed quid in infernos dicet?

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post #8 of 25 Old Oct 10th, 2007, 5:57 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwusmc
OK..it's squirting out from the inside QD connection. Is that an 'O' ring problem. It does not leak unless I have the ignition key in the on position. I guess that pressurizes the system, right?
Just for the record, I'm mech inclined but not experienced in wrenching and willing to learn so as to save a few bucks and keep the bike. I have limited resources but want to learn.
Is this doable by myself in replacing the 'O' ring or QD's? TIA
If you just need new O-rings PM me your address and I'll send you a few spares by snail mail. I had to buy a bag of 100 when I bout my brass QDs.

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post #9 of 25 Old Oct 11th, 2007, 12:09 am Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy_gg
If you just need new O-rings PM me your address and I'll send you a few spares by snail mail. I had to buy a bag of 100 when I bout my brass QDs.
Where did you buy the brass QD's? I don't know if the 'o' ring replacement is the solution. I may have to buy brand new QD's and would rather like to go with a more permanent type then the OEM ones..TIA
Oh, I already ordered the rings from Bob's BMW but thanks for the offer anyway..Nice of you to do so..
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post #10 of 25 Old Oct 11th, 2007, 12:12 am Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astuber
Replacing the 0-ring or the quick disconnect is something you can do your self. If you want to just replace the o-ring, you need to separate the quick disconnect by depressing the silver colored latch. Once you have the two halves apart you should easily see the o-ring on the male quick disconnect. I think that it is a 011 Buna-N o-ring (but take it with you when you buy a new one). Should be available from almost any industrial supply house.

Replacing the quick disconnects is also easy. You will need to either empty the fuel tank or pinch off the line coming from the fuel tank. The quick disconnects probably have the crimp on BMW clamps. I find it best to use an awl or some other fairly sharp pointed tool to expand the crimp enough to get the hose off the quick disconnect. I replace the clamps with screw clamps I got at the auto parts store. It sounds more complicated than it actually is. HTH
thanks for the info, Alan..It was a big help. Now the decision to replace the QD's with a better one is the next step. Your info will really help..TA
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post #11 of 25 Old Oct 11th, 2007, 10:55 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwusmc
Where did you buy the brass QD's? I don't know if the 'o' ring replacement is the solution. I may have to buy brand new QD's and would rather like to go with a more permanent type then the OEM ones..TIA
Oh, I already ordered the rings from Bob's BMW but thanks for the offer anyway..Nice of you to do so..
I got mine at www.mscdirect.com, the part numbers are:
2 x 88080445 $24.81 each
Description: 5/16"SHUTOFF HOSE BARB LCD CPLING BODY IN-LINE

2 x 88080486 $15.30 each
Description: 5/16"HOSE BARB SHUTOFF LCD CPLING INSERT IN-LINE

1 x 9452K19 BUNA-N O-RING, PK $2.05 (100 in the package)

Gilles & Kathy
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For her I climbed the highest mountain!
For her I swam across the deepest ocean!
For her I walked through the largest desert!
And then she left me... She said I was never home!!!


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post #12 of 25 Old Oct 11th, 2007, 8:22 pm
 
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Quich Disconnects

I've seen a lot of problems with these things on all of the BMW models along with a number of solutions. What do fuel line QDs do that warrants the potential problems? What's the disadvantage/down-side to running the hoses directly to the tank and using quality screw type hose clamps (the kind that aren't perforated and cut the hose)?
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post #13 of 25 Old Oct 11th, 2007, 9:34 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hendsv
I've seen a lot of problems with these things on all of the BMW models along with a number of solutions. What do fuel line QDs do that warrants the potential problems? What's the disadvantage/down-side to running the hoses directly to the tank and using quality screw type hose clamps (the kind that aren't perforated and cut the hose)?
Well first is the OM are plastic. Second anything with an o-ring can leak. O-rings can get nicked, are affected by chemicals, and just plain loose elasticity over time and use. Third vibration and heat. Fourth "Shit Happens"

If you see the link Schweintechnik pointed out on the Jiffy Tite connectors that I posted on, you will see an example of what is IMHO the solution to these issues.

Aluminum, and needle valve connection.

Down side pricey, not much more then the brass, but with a better design.

Lee
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post #14 of 25 Old Oct 12th, 2007, 1:21 am Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy_gg
I got mine at www.mscdirect.com, the part numbers are:
2 x 88080445 $24.81 each
Description: 5/16"SHUTOFF HOSE BARB LCD CPLING BODY IN-LINE

2 x 88080486 $15.30 each
Description: 5/16"HOSE BARB SHUTOFF LCD CPLING INSERT IN-LINE

1 x 9452K19 BUNA-N O-RING, PK $2.05 (100 in the package)
Thanks for the info..Has it been working ok since installation? I'm thinking that it may what I'm going to have to do to get it fixed right.
Hate to wait for parts but it's gotta be done if I'm to ride with one less worry..TA
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post #15 of 25 Old Oct 12th, 2007, 11:57 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwusmc
Thanks for the info..Has it been working ok since installation? I'm thinking that it may what I'm going to have to do to get it fixed right.
Hate to wait for parts but it's gotta be done if I'm to ride with one less worry..TA
Trouble-free since I installed them about 11K miles ago...
I replaced the plastic QDs as a pre-emptive measure and I still have them if you want them. Just PM me your mailing address. They are in good shape and you can't beat the price (free). I'll even include some extra o-rings.

Gilles & Kathy
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For her I climbed the highest mountain!
For her I swam across the deepest ocean!
For her I walked through the largest desert!
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post #16 of 25 Old Oct 12th, 2007, 1:45 pm Thread Starter
 
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy_gg
Trouble-free since I installed them about 11K miles ago...
I replaced the plastic QDs as a pre-emptive measure and I still have them if you want them. Just PM me your mailing address. They are in good shape and you can't beat the price (free). I'll even include some extra o-rings.
Really appreciate your offer..The OEM QD's are working ok right now. Just got through checking them to make sure the leak wasn't there and it checked ok with no leaks so I'm prety sure the 'O' ring replacement will do the trick until I can get the upgraded QD's on order(shallow pocketbook).
Thanks for response on your experience with the QD's. Think I'll go with your solution when funds allow.
As we say in Hawaii = Mahalo Nui Loa(Thanks very much)..Roy
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post #17 of 25 Old Oct 16th, 2007, 9:14 pm Thread Starter
 
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Smile On the road again!!!

Update:
OEM QD's replaced with the QD's that zippy_gg recommended..

Piece of cake installing them..The hassle was getting the old OEM stuff off.

Now that I've gotten past the tupperware intimidation, I think I'll be doing more of my own repair/servicing.

Thanks to all that provided advice and support..especially to zippy_gg through PM's..

To echo others, this site is awesome due to the people who are part of it..

Ride safe everyone and I'm out the door..Seee yaaa!!
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post #18 of 25 Old Oct 16th, 2007, 10:00 pm
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You are welcome! Glad to kow you are back on the road, with peace of mind. It is no fun when your bike takes leak!

Gilles & Kathy
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For her I climbed the highest mountain!
For her I swam across the deepest ocean!
For her I walked through the largest desert!
And then she left me... She said I was never home!!!


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post #19 of 25 Old Oct 26th, 2007, 9:47 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hendsv
I've seen a lot of problems with these things on all of the BMW models along with a number of solutions. What do fuel line QDs do that warrants the potential problems? What's the disadvantage/down-side to running the hoses directly to the tank and using quality screw type hose clamps (the kind that aren't perforated and cut the hose)?
No one has picked-up on my technical question (boss must be watching at work) so again, what is the downside of eliminating the QDs altogether?

My guess is that it will cost 10 minutes when removing the tank and unless you take the thing off every day, eliminating a number of failure points by direct connecting the hoses to the tank is a no-brainer. Right or wrong?
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post #20 of 25 Old Oct 26th, 2007, 10:08 pm
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As long as you have some nice small clamps to shut off the fuel flow, there is no down side. I have removed tanks with and without the QDs. For all the fuss and as infrequent as you have to do it it may just be a plus. It is a little tight in there to get clamps in but do able with these:
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post #21 of 25 Old Oct 27th, 2007, 11:14 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hendsv
. . .what is the downside of eliminating the QDs altogether?

My guess is that it will cost 10 minutes when removing the tank and unless you take the thing off every day, eliminating a number of failure points by direct connecting the hoses to the tank is a no-brainer. Right or wrong?
There are always three answers to this type of question, "right," "wrong," and "mu." In this case I think the answer is mu.

You need some way to disconnect the hoses from the gas tank to the injector rail. Current LTs come with plastic QDs that are known to break. The QDs rely on O-rings that are easily nicked or cut. Each end of the QD is attached to an end of a fuel hose with a clamp. So all together there are about 8 failure points with the OEM system. My '99 LT came with metal double-barbed connectors - only 4 failure points (at the hose ends). It was a PITA to disconnect the gas tank on the first go-round because of the BMW OEM clamps, but I replaced one OEM clamp on each line with a screw clamp, and after that it was easier. And still with only 4 failure points. The issue for me was the difficulty of getting the hose off the barbed connector. There's very little room and and almost no free-play in the hoses at the connection site, so getting a good grip and/or being able to change the angle of pull is difficult. When I found myself resorting to prying the hose off I decided that it wasn't worth it, that I inevitably would ruin the hose. So I got the metal QDs that are mentioned above, and the bag of O-rings, and after 2 maintenance sessions during which I pulled the tank I've decided that the QDs were worth every penny. The metal QDs add 2 additional failure points over the barbed connectors (the O-rings), but I can check for O-ring failure in 20 seconds, and if I find a failure (and I did), can replace the O-ring in under a minute. So, is it a no-brainer to use the barbed connectors with fewer failure points? Mu.

Bill
Guilford, CT
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post #22 of 25 Old Feb 21st, 2008, 3:19 pm
 
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Smile Re: Fuel leak

Had the same problem, fuel pouring out of the right side of my K12LT. I had to replace the quick disconnect value. A bit of a pain because of having to remove all the Tupperware but it is doable,
I talked to my BMW dealer and he mailed me a quick disconnect. It costs about $50.00.
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post #23 of 25 Old Feb 21st, 2008, 3:55 pm Thread Starter
 
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Talking Re: Fuel leak

Just a thought..might have been better to go with the metal QD's for replacements than using the OEM BMW plastic QD's..
I've been trouble free since my replacement (about 15,000k)..
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post #24 of 25 Old Feb 23rd, 2008, 2:53 pm
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eliminating qd's altogether

i chose to eliminate the qd's, installed barbed fittings. I have recently changed the air filter and fuel filter and to be real honest after 30K miles they were probably fine. I figure the next time I need to get into that area I'll just run the tank to close to empty and drain off the remainder. I will probably go at least 40 to 50K miles next time so I have a lot of riding before I need to think about it. also I had leaking qd's twice before I finally eliminated them and one of the times required a tow.


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post #25 of 25 Old Feb 23rd, 2008, 5:45 pm
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Re: Fuel leak

The only possible problem I can foresee with replacing the QD's with barb fittings is the potential to mix up your lines during a future service. One line is pressure to the injectors, the other a return line. The QD's are installed so it is impossible to cross the lines.

FWIW, I think A&S BMW now sells metal QD's. Just make sure to install them with the male fittings in opposite directions on the hoses (one male and one female on the tank side hoses).

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