Dyno tested the LT - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 33 Old Nov 20th, 2005, 9:56 pm Thread Starter
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Talking Dyno tested the LT

Hey, everybody:

I went to a bike show today and did something quite out of character. There was a dyno machine there and a contest to see who had the most HP. It was a small event, so two classes: sport bikes and cruisers. I put Mein Byk on the dyno and got 109.3 HP at the rear wheel. Not only that, but I came in second. The winner was a turbocharged HD FXR with 210 HP at the rear wheel. I was seroiusly outclassed there, but I beat some real world bikes including a Borget Python chopper and a Yamaha Warrior, which was running on 110 octane fuel. Imagine that. I also won $50. Not bad for an afternoon.

Joe
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post #2 of 33 Old Nov 20th, 2005, 10:19 pm
 
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Cool! Musta sucked to be the guy with the Borget! LMAO!
All that high dollar chopper coolness and he gets skunked by a flying couch!
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post #3 of 33 Old Nov 21st, 2005, 5:44 am
 
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Top work on getting second place.

I would assume your bike is stock standard???
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post #4 of 33 Old Nov 21st, 2005, 6:50 am
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So how did you do in the burn out contest?
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post #5 of 33 Old Nov 21st, 2005, 8:16 am Thread Starter
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HeHe:

Bike is still stock standard. I left the burn out contest to the "rocket scientists." Actually, the guy on the Borget is a friend of mine, who invited me to the show. ROFL
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post #6 of 33 Old Nov 21st, 2005, 10:03 am
 
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It's the blue ones with all the HP....... Regards Pete
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post #7 of 33 Old Nov 21st, 2005, 10:20 am
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I'll jump in next time one of those comes up. I have the Cam Gears in mine....


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post #8 of 33 Old Nov 21st, 2005, 11:51 am
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Nice going! Gotta love that long flat torque "curve" that goes from 3k to 7700 rpm. That chart says very loudly, "If you aren't revving this motor above above 5k, you're not using this engine!"

As this is a recent test, Admin's, could we save this chart somewhere in the archives? TIA

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post #9 of 33 Old Nov 21st, 2005, 9:11 pm
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I did the same with Tarkus 3 years ago at a charity ride. Came out at 80 hp at the rear wheel. The most amazing thing was the sound. There was none- or certainly not much. Just a moderate hum at 20 feet away. A pleasant relief in between all the H-Ds and "performance" exhausts on the sport bikes. No awards, just some good natured teasing (what's that I hear? A sewing machine?).

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post #10 of 33 Old Nov 21st, 2005, 9:56 pm
 
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So for maximum acceleration, would the shift point be at 7700 rpm? What is redline on this bike? 29 horsepower difference between the 2000 and 2005? I thought there was only 10-15 horsepower difference...

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post #11 of 33 Old Nov 21st, 2005, 10:26 pm Thread Starter
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Tim:

The chart I posted was actually the better of two attemps. What's really surprising is that on this first attempt, the results of which you've seen, I was actually watching the tach and took the engine up to 8000 rpm, letting go of the throttle just before hitting the rev limiter. The second attempt was done allowing the bike to reach the rev limiter at just over 8000 rpm (I guess just like the speedo, the tach ain't accurate either) and this produced a reading slightly below the 109. I decided not to make a third attempt.

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post #12 of 33 Old Nov 21st, 2005, 10:29 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjessen
Nice going! Gotta love that long flat torque "curve" that goes from 3k to 7700 rpm. That chart says very loudly, "If you aren't revving this motor above above 5k, you're not using this engine!"

As this is a recent test, Admin's, could we save this chart somewhere in the archives? TIA

Me? In the archives? What an honor...I think. Come by and dust me off every once in a while

Joe
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post #13 of 33 Old Nov 22nd, 2005, 12:21 am
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Tim, most dynamometers I've heard about are not real good at measuring absolute horsepower - all sorts of factors throw the reading off. Measuring on 2 different dynamometers will usually give 2 different readings. They're much better at making relative rather than absolute measurements: measure HP, make a change to the engine, measure HP again to see if the change did good or bad. The peak HP presented in this thread seems high, to me.

- Bob

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post #14 of 33 Old Nov 22nd, 2005, 7:10 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob_menton
Tim, most dynamometers I've heard about are not real good at measuring absolute horsepower - all sorts of factors throw the reading off. Measuring on 2 different dynamometers will usually give 2 different readings. They're much better at making relative rather than absolute measurements: measure HP, make a change to the engine, measure HP again to see if the change did good or bad. The peak HP presented in this thread seems high, to me.

- Bob
this is true, it also can depend on who ts running the dyno and or type of dyno, you (on some Dyno's anyhow) can overload the engine before it gets to it's peak HP therefore showing a much less HP reading than it actually has

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post #15 of 33 Old Nov 22nd, 2005, 4:03 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob_menton
Tim, most dynamometers I've heard about are not real good at measuring absolute horsepower - all sorts of factors throw the reading off. Measuring on 2 different dynamometers will usually give 2 different readings. They're much better at making relative rather than absolute measurements: measure HP, make a change to the engine, measure HP again to see if the change did good or bad. The peak HP presented in this thread seems high, to me.

- Bob
Bob:

It was my understanding that one loses between 8 and 10% of the engine's peak horsepower in the drivetrain, making the 05 LT's horsepower at the rear wheel between 104 and 106. Those that know more about this than I may argue that in a shaft-driven motorcycle, the loss may be even lower. The 109 reading that I got on the dyno may be a tad high, but it's still in the ballpark. In any case, it was a fun (and profitable) experience.

Joe
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post #16 of 33 Old Nov 22nd, 2005, 4:33 pm
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I think that shaft drives actually use up more power than chains. They're less maintenance, which is why you see them on tourers. The hypersports bikes still use chains, as they're more efficient than shaft or belt drive.

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post #17 of 33 Old Nov 22nd, 2005, 5:07 pm
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Pulley vs. Shaft

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
The hypersports bikes still use chains, as they're more efficient than shaft or belt drive.
Less unsprung weight and fewer rotational inertia translations means better handling and quickness, too.

For courses, of course
Thoroughbred versus draft horse
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post #18 of 33 Old Nov 22nd, 2005, 6:58 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neodoc
Bob:

It was my understanding that one loses between 8 and 10% of the engine's peak horsepower in the drivetrain, making the 05 LT's horsepower at the rear wheel between 104 and 106. Those that know more about this than I may argue that in a shaft-driven motorcycle, the loss may be even lower. The 109 reading that I got on the dyno may be a tad high, but it's still in the ballpark. In any case, it was a fun (and profitable) experience.
That's true, Joe (8 to 10% loss in drivetrain, for a shaft - chain does better, as Ken mentioned) - but that does NOT give 104 to 106 HP at the rear wheel. You haven't accounted for the fact that your 115 HP is theoretical, at the crankshaft internal to the engine (and often overestimated by many manufacturers). You'll lose another 8-10% getting from theoretical, inside the engine, to real-world output to the drivetrain. Then you tack on the drivetrain loss. The result is a rear wheel HP that's more like 18-20% below crankshaft HP. I doubt any stock '05 LT is making over 100 HP at the rear wheel. Earlier LTs like mine are in the neighborhood of 82 HP at the rear wheel. As Tom said, the dyno operator is a big factor also - he prolly wanted you to feel good - especially important for Harley owners, who don't really want to know how little HP their engines are making. Worked, didn't it?

- Bob

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post #19 of 33 Old Nov 22nd, 2005, 7:07 pm
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Rear wheel HP vs Crank

On the new K motor for the R, claimed horsepower is 163 "at the crankshaft". The yield at the wheel is roughly 141 HP, +/- 1HP. That's on each of the 5 dyno readings I've come across.

If BMW's number are accurate and the dyno readings "floating around" are accurate, then the loss from motor to wheel on the K-R is 13.5%




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post #20 of 33 Old Nov 22nd, 2005, 8:26 pm
 
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Joe "Neodoc" - what oils did you use in your engine, transmission and shaft drive during your 109 hp dyno run? Royal Purple claims an extra 3% gain in horsepower if you use their products over petroleum oils. AMSOIL claims 1% over petroleum oils. Royal Purple has listed their own tests, and tests run by enthusiast magazines and television shows showing horspower gains just by switching from petroleum to synthetic oils on their website.

Matt - what oils did you use in your 80 hp dynotest.
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post #21 of 33 Old Nov 22nd, 2005, 11:08 pm Thread Starter
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Well, guys, it felt good at the time to beat the guy on the Borget Python with his S&S engine, as well as the guy on the Yamaha Warrior, running on 110 Octane fuel. This guy even went on the dyno on two separate occasions because he didn't believe his numbers the first time. I'm not intending to boast about Mein Byk. It's completely stock and well cared for. If the 109 isn't real, that's okay. I have no intentions of racing anybody (except when they cut me off or something) so I'll just put the $50 I made to good use. Perhaps I'll buy some of that Royal Purple and try my luck against the guy who got first place on the dyno. His bike was measured at 210 Hp at the rear wheel...it was an 89 Harley FXR with a turbo. Go figure.

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post #22 of 33 Old Nov 23rd, 2005, 1:59 am
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So my 565+ HP Hayabusa would have won. Damn, I needed the money too.
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post #23 of 33 Old Nov 23rd, 2005, 2:23 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neodoc
Well, guys, it felt good at the time to beat the guy on the Borget Python with his S&S engine, as well as the guy on the Yamaha Warrior, running on 110 Octane fuel. This guy even went on the dyno on two separate occasions because he didn't believe his numbers the first time. I'm not intending to boast about Mein Byk. It's completely stock and well cared for. If the 109 isn't real, that's okay. I have no intentions of racing anybody (except when they cut me off or something) so I'll just put the $50 I made to good use. Perhaps I'll buy some of that Royal Purple and try my luck against the guy who got first place on the dyno. His bike was measured at 210 Hp at the rear wheel...it was an 89 Harley FXR with a turbo. Go figure.

210 HP for a turbo harley. Heck that is even hard to believe. Must have had NOS with it too. Most of the ones I have seen turboed have been well under 140HP except for Vrods that were turboed, and I think my friends is something like 165 Hp.
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post #24 of 33 Old Nov 23rd, 2005, 9:24 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hayabusa200
So my 565+ HP Hayabusa would have won. Damn, I needed the money too.
For rear tires, no doubt, and maybe even fuel now and again. Jeez, I think I'd be afraid to twist that throttle without wheelie bars at least.

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post #25 of 33 Old Nov 23rd, 2005, 10:26 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
For rear tires, no doubt, and maybe even fuel now and again. Jeez, I think I'd be afraid to twist that throttle without wheelie bars at least.
A boost controller really helps, and a little bit of throttle control too.
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post #26 of 33 Old Nov 25th, 2005, 8:24 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hayabusa200
So my 565+ HP Hayabusa would have won. Damn, I needed the money too.
565+hp, got to see this one!

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post #27 of 33 Old Nov 25th, 2005, 6:23 pm
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OK now I am confused! Which Cam gears? Is this the I want my LT to look like a RS conversion thing that never works out or is it something different and better?

I am curious.

Thanks

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post #28 of 33 Old Nov 25th, 2005, 6:26 pm
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Unhappy Positng Replys

OK I need some remedial training.

I am still getting use to this new setup. How do I post a reply to an individual posting mid stream in a thread.

I hope the Cam Gear question gets read by the originator S2Dog. LOL

Thanks again

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post #29 of 33 Old Nov 25th, 2005, 6:31 pm
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post #30 of 33 Old Nov 25th, 2005, 10:55 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob_menton
I doubt any stock '05 LT is making over 100 HP at the rear wheel. Earlier LTs like mine are in the neighborhood of 82 HP at the rear wheel.
Actooly, one of the mags (gotta dig up which one) got a true 100hp at the rear wheel of an '05 (as I recall, they also got 85 from a '99); seems credible to me, as that's a ~15% loss through the tranny/final drive.

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post #31 of 33 Old Nov 26th, 2005, 1:49 am
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Steve,

Rhinewest Performance makes a replacement cam gear set for the 2005 LTs. It is supposed to raise midrange torque for a smoother ride and more power where you need it.

Ken
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post #32 of 33 Old Nov 26th, 2005, 1:40 pm
 
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Two things:

First: on my Honda VTX we took the stated factory crank hp/torque then compared to many many VTX's on various dyno's. This yielded about a 17% loss of power using a Honda drive shaft.

Second: do you know what gear they ran you dyno runs on? It should have been 4th gear. If they ran it in 5th it would give you slightly better numbers. Most operators try to use the closest to a 1:1 gear ratio.

Good job overall. Most will get lost in the peak numbers but as pointed out above, it is the curve itself that talks to the usability of the motor's power.
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post #33 of 33 Old Nov 26th, 2005, 2:37 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TX03LTC
Two things:

First: on my Honda VTX we took the stated factory crank hp/torque then compared to many many VTX's on various dyno's. This yielded about a 17% loss of power using a Honda drive shaft.

Second: do you know what gear they ran you dyno runs on? It should have been 4th gear. If they ran it in 5th it would give you slightly better numbers. Most operators try to use the closest to a 1:1 gear ratio.

Good job overall. Most will get lost in the peak numbers but as pointed out above, it is the curve itself that talks to the usability of the motor's power.
Although I don't believe you're referring to my dyno test, my LT was run in 3rd gear, whereas the Warrior referred to in the original post of the thread was run in 4th, per the owner's request. I believe his was the only one that was tested in 4th.

Joe
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