final drive play, how much? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 13 Old Aug 9th, 2007, 11:17 pm Thread Starter
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final drive play, how much?

Good day fellows, I was riding my K12LT from Brisbane (Australia,QLD) to Kununurra (WA) in 3 days, to my new temporary workplace. It was a fantastic ride but more about my question.
I had a breakdown in the middle of nowhere,my final drive, the wheelbearing gave in, the usual split in many pieces story.
Thanks to me using a ceramic additive from Germany and my knowledge of that it can happen (thanks to the forum), it didn't chew enough from the alloy housing away to render it useless. I did have the necessary spares with me and after taking it apart to the point where the bearing had to be taken off the spline, I hitchhiked back to the last petrol station (some 40km away) and got help from a car mechanic. Together we did the job and I filled in some fullsynthethic Engine Oil and more ceramic coater and tackled the last 1900km, avoiding Kangoroos, to work.

THE QUESTION:
when I move the final drive, left and right, it has got a very very little play, not a milimeter, as I said, very little. Might this be the play that results from having the link on the shaft?

Kind regards
Patrik
In Never Never Land

99' K12LT champagne
80' XJ 650 red
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post #2 of 13 Old Aug 10th, 2007, 5:00 am
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Hi, Patrick, sorry to hear about your bad excitement, but I am jealous about the good excitement. What a ride!

Welcome to the breakdown club, by the way.

Regarding the play: is it the wheel against FD housing, or FD against the paralever tube? I'll check my bike and let you know how it feels for comparison.

Also, I presume that you meant gear oil, not engine oil, in the drive - right?

Robert in Northern NJ

'09 R12GS, '08 R12RT, '03 R1150RT, '01 F650GS - time to thin the herd?


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post #3 of 13 Old Aug 10th, 2007, 9:00 am Thread Starter
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Quote: FD against the paralever tube

Yes, that's the one

Quote: I presume that you meant gear oil, not engine oil, in the drive

Nope, at this stage, I only had some Castrol high performance full synthetic engine oil with me It is better than nothing and worked well enough.


there is another indication that something was wrong, the reartyre, as being already semi worn off when I started the journey, was much more worn off on the side facing the FD.
Now I wonder if this was in conjunction with the bearing failure or not. Of course it is very difficult to comment on the issue when you don't see the bike but I don't mind some long distance input, otherwise I wouldn't post it here
As far as I can recall, I was riding for at least 600km with a faulty wheelbearing before breaking down completely (craaaaaraaaraaraarrrr)
Would this distance together with a very rough road surface possibly be responsible for the uneaven wear of the tyre?

Now I do have a new tyre on the bike and got new spares sent to me (ready again) If I drive through a small piece of wet road and then check the wet stripe on the tyre, if it is in the middle then things should be right, I presume?

Oh, and yes, the whole trip is 3660km, it was easy enough to ride 1200km per day in daylight, just when the night falls, the wildlife becomes a real danger to cars and specially bikes. No one drives with a bike, almost no one just muuuuch slower.

Thanx rdwalker for your input
Patrik

99' K12LT champagne
80' XJ 650 red
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Last edited by pcra; Aug 10th, 2007 at 9:07 am.
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post #4 of 13 Old Aug 11th, 2007, 8:50 pm Thread Starter
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Anyone Else With Some Input???

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post #5 of 13 Old Aug 11th, 2007, 9:54 pm
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Did not get a chance to pull out my bike - will do this Sunday.

Robert in Northern NJ

'09 R12GS, '08 R12RT, '03 R1150RT, '01 F650GS - time to thin the herd?


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post #6 of 13 Old Aug 11th, 2007, 10:29 pm
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Gu'day Patrik. Nice recovery in the outback!!! I'm also running a replacement crown bearing with the same internal factory spacer on my 2000 with 10K miles on the new bearing.

With regard to the tire wear: "there is another indication that something was wrong, the reartyre, as being already semi worn off when I started the journey, was much more worn off on the side facing the FD." Could it just be the crowned rough road and higher speed with the well worn tire. We do wear the running surface away from the FD side here in the USA.

I'll let the member know as "WAS" comment on the possible worn needle bearings in the FD attachment area to the paralever housing. He had his 99 unit all apart

Barnett
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post #7 of 13 Old Aug 12th, 2007, 1:11 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Could it just be the crowned rough road and higher speed with the well worn tire. We do wear the running surface away from the FD side here in the USA.

Good point mate, could well be. It is left side driving here by us, so that supports your point and the road was realy very very rough and straaaaaaaight for thousands of kilometers.

Quote:
I'll let the member know as "WAS" comment on the possible worn needle bearings

Oh, good Idea! love to hear his input, thanks for thinking along, Barnett

Quote:
Did not get a chance to pull out my bike - will do this Sunday

Great! I am realy wondering if you'll find some minimal overall play as well.



kind regards
Patrik

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post #8 of 13 Old Aug 12th, 2007, 7:53 am
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The type of tires matter as well in my experience. Are you using the Bridgestones or Metzlers? The softer rubber on the Bridgestones are more sensative to road surfaces and tire pressure.

I am not an expert at FD, but my understanding is any side to side tire movement is not acceptable.

I guess you are aware that it is Gear oil that is called for and not synthetic engine oil. My concern would be the weight of the engine oil.
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post #9 of 13 Old Aug 12th, 2007, 8:54 am Thread Starter
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QUOTE:
I guess you are aware that it is Gear oil that is called for and not synthetic engine oil.

Sure mate, SAE 90 Hypoid GL 5, but as mentioned and interesting to note, at this stage in the outback area, I only had engine oil with me and it helped me out of the matter.

It is a Metzeler ME 880

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post #10 of 13 Old Aug 12th, 2007, 10:39 am
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Missing needle bearing rollers?

Hi, Patrick,

here is an update. I did check my bike and the final drive is quite solid on the paralever arm. Sounds like this play is something you should look into.

The previous comments about needle bearings around the pivot studs are useful. Also (and this is from my experience), when fighting with the FD, reinstalling it in less than optimal conditions, it is possible to loose some rollers from the needle bearings. They tend to stick to the pivot pins being reinserted and can be lifted and pushed into the FD housing.

You may need to pull the FD again to see if everything is intact and to double-check all torque settings - another possible factor.

In case you do not have a manual in your new location, here are the torque values:

12mm fixed bearing stud (pivot pin), right side - 160 Nm
12mm floating stud, left side - 7 Nm (that's just a bit more than finger tight).
30mm locknut on floating stud - 160 Nm

The procedure is to set the floating stud, then to hold it with an Allen wrench while tightening the locknut with the special BMW socket. Most likely it is not available for you - what worked for me was torquing the stud, scratch-marking its position and then closing the locknut while ever so often double-checking that the stud did not turn.

Also, for reference: reaction link fasteners (front and rear): 43 Nm.
FD oil fill and drain plugs: 23 Nm.
Good luck!

Robert in Northern NJ

'09 R12GS, '08 R12RT, '03 R1150RT, '01 F650GS - time to thin the herd?


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post #11 of 13 Old Aug 12th, 2007, 9:52 pm Thread Starter
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Many Thanks Robert and all of you for helping me out, where I wasn't too sure. I much appreciated it.

Kind regards
Patrik

99' K12LT champagne
80' XJ 650 red
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post #12 of 13 Old Aug 14th, 2007, 10:54 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
12mm fixed bearing stud (pivot pin), right side - 160 Nm
12mm floating stud, left side - 7 Nm (that's just a bit more than finger tight).
30mm locknut on floating stud - 160 Nm


I took the FD apart again and double checked it. The oil was brown and suffered from heat (remember it still was the emergency engine oil used), so it is not the right oil for long there was still metallic (Alloy) residue left that got now washed out AND I checked the floating stud, which was not as tight as should have been. After tightening it, the minor play completely disapeared.

100 Points for you, mate, your diagnosis was top notch!

Many thanks again
Keep Well
Patrik

99' K12LT champagne
80' XJ 650 red
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post #13 of 13 Old Aug 15th, 2007, 3:43 pm
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Good to hear this.

Enjoy your rides - how's the riding season there now?

By the way, as a point of advice: following suggestions on this site I am now changing FD fluid with every change of engine oil.

A little bit of hassle, but it allows catching tell-tale flakes of metal in gear lube before the failure really gets under way.

Regards, Robert.

Robert in Northern NJ

'09 R12GS, '08 R12RT, '03 R1150RT, '01 F650GS - time to thin the herd?


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