"Normal" clutch life expectancy - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 22 Old Aug 2nd, 2007, 10:16 pm Thread Starter
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"Normal" clutch life expectancy

I realize there are many variables regarding clutch life, especially on the LT. Assuming that the clutch hasn't been abused, the slave cylinder holds, engine seals dont leak,etc., are there any among us with substantial miles that have original clutches and other offending original parts that can potentially foul things?
I've turned a young 50,000 and wonder whether it would be foolish to do anything until a component wears/leaks, or should a pre emptive overhaul be performed at some point. I know sometimes if it aint broke don't fix it, with my luck I would do a rebuild and install a faulty slave cylinder. I would feel better however knowing that there are some high mileage clutches out there.
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post #2 of 22 Old Aug 2nd, 2007, 11:07 pm
 
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My dry clutch turned into a wet one at 36,000 miles when the transmission fluid decided to move in, and was replaced under warranty. Didn't have a clutch issue for the next 101,000 miles and then I sold it. Anybody else get over 100,000 miles on a clutch with no problems? I ride with a sport bike club nearly every weekend and get about 8,000 miles on a rear tire, which might give you a riding style comparison.
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post #3 of 22 Old Aug 3rd, 2007, 4:10 am
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I had 60k on my LT before the rear main seal went out. The dealer said that the clutch showed very little wear but they replaced it anyway while they were in there. The clutch should last 150k to 200k under "normal" use.

Mike Trevelino
Williamsburg, VA
2008 RT
2000 LT - Totaled at 99,960 miles


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post #4 of 22 Old Aug 3rd, 2007, 7:16 am
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My 76 R90/6 had 121,000 miles on the clock when I sold it. The clutch never gave me any problems. The clutch cable needed to be replaced twice. I would think that new clutches should be as good if not better. I only have 43,000 on my LT now so I only hope I am right.
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post #5 of 22 Old Aug 3rd, 2007, 11:38 am
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Had a rear main seal leak at about 45k on my 2000. The clutch showed very little wear. Had some oil on it so it got replaced anyway....

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post #6 of 22 Old Aug 3rd, 2007, 12:25 pm
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Don't worry

Pretty much all of the clutch failures are due to a leak somewhere, (as the posts on this thread testify to). I had the transmission off of my K1100LT at about 100,000 miles and saw that the material on the clutch was almost gone. I ordered a new friction plate and was amazed to see that the new one didn't have any more material on it than the one I replaced. The friction discs "appear" to be the same on the 1200 & 1100s.

Your time and money will be better spent making sure you have the weep hole in the clutch slave cylinder, (and maybe an extended warranty in case a seal ever fails).

George
(100,000 on first clutch, no problems, 55,000 on current one, no problems)

Quote:
Originally Posted by alanforn
I realize there are many variables regarding clutch life, especially on the LT. Assuming that the clutch hasn't been abused, the slave cylinder holds, engine seals dont leak,etc., are there any among us with substantial miles that have original clutches and other offending original parts that can potentially foul things?
I've turned a young 50,000 and wonder whether it would be foolish to do anything until a component wears/leaks, or should a pre emptive overhaul be performed at some point. I know sometimes if it aint broke don't fix it, with my luck I would do a rebuild and install a faulty slave cylinder. I would feel better however knowing that there are some high mileage clutches out there.
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post #7 of 22 Old Aug 3rd, 2007, 2:22 pm
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So here's a question:

I'm wondering:

I just got an LT a couple of weeks ago ('05 w/15,000 miles).

The guy who owned it has been riding for a lot of years so I know he wasn't a hack. The clutch on this puppy feels fabulous.

NOW I'm finding out (after riding sport bikes for 30 years) that to control an LT (or any other bike for that matter) at slow speed, you have to slip the clutch, rev it high, and use the rear brake to control the speed (this from the Motorman video and reading this board).

Of course, my dealer says use the clutch like an on/off switch for maximum life.

So the question is: How much less clutch life (and how much damage) will I get from using the Motorman technique? Are you guys with high mileage clutches using this technique?

I never knew this technique until a few weeks ago so rarely would I use that combination except for occassionaly at slow speed. Now it seems the way to drive an LT at slow speeds is to do it that way - and I've started practicing it. Motorman say 5 hours solid hours of parking lot practice to get good at it and after 10 hours, it'll be second nature.

Will I have fried the clutch by that time or done any permanent damage? I've never worn out a clutch in my life - and I've only owned stick shift cars and 5 bikes - my Suzuki 750 for 18 years.

Thanks for the help.

mike

Last edited by mrbiker; Aug 3rd, 2007 at 2:30 pm.
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post #8 of 22 Old Aug 3rd, 2007, 2:43 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbiker
I'm wondering:

I just got an LT a couple of weeks ago ('05 w/15,000 miles).

The guy who owned it has been riding for a lot of years so I know he wasn't a hack. The clutch on this puppy feels fabulous.

NOW I'm finding out (after riding sport bikes for 30 years) that to control an LT (or any other bike for that matter) at slow speed, you have to slip the clutch, rev it high, and use the rear brake to control the speed (this from the Motorman video and reading this board).

Of course, my dealer says use the clutch like an on/off switch for maximum life.

So the question is: How much less clutch life (and how much damage) will I get from using the Motorman technique? Are you guys with high mileage clutches using this technique?

I never knew this technique until a few weeks ago so rarely would I use that combination except for occassionaly at slow speed. Now it seems the way to drive an LT at slow speeds is to do it that way - and I've started practicing it. Motorman say 5 hours solid hours of parking lot practice to get good at it and after 10 hours, it'll be second nature.

Will I have fried the clutch by that time or done any permanent damage? I've never worn out a clutch in my life - and I've only owned stick shift cars and 5 bikes - my Suzuki 750 for 18 years.

Thanks for the help.

mike
Slipping the clutch with high RPM's on these bike will kill that clutch very quickly. This is NOT the technique taught at the motor officer schools here in California.

The best way to ride the bike at slow speeds and get good life out of the clutch is to hold a very steady low RPM (under 2000) and use the friction zone of the clutch to control your speed...

__________
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2006 DRZ400E

2007 G650 X Challenge
2006 GT200
2005 R1200GS


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post #9 of 22 Old Aug 3rd, 2007, 5:40 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedhudson
Slipping the clutch with high RPM's on these bike will kill that clutch very quickly. This is NOT the technique taught at the motor officer schools here in California.

The best way to ride the bike at slow speeds and get good life out of the clutch is to hold a very steady low RPM (under 2000) and use the friction zone of the clutch to control your speed...
Ted,

I read to hold the rpm's around 2500 because the spinning engine and pistons keep the bike steady.

That's the high rpm's I meant. 2000-2500 rpm's is high to me - I got good at fully engaging the clutch at low rpms to save wear and tear, although I've never been REAL good at very low speed handling.

Sounds like you are advocating the same thing - just at 2,000 rpm's. Is that right?

Thanks

mike

Last edited by mrbiker; Aug 3rd, 2007 at 7:31 pm.
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post #10 of 22 Old Aug 3rd, 2007, 5:42 pm
 
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Will I have fried the clutch by that time or done any permanent damage? I've never worn out a clutch in my life - and I've only owned stick shift cars and 5 bikes - my Suzuki 750 for 18 years.
If you have driven sticks in vehicles then you know not to slip a dry clutch...heat is the enemy. A wet clutch can take allot more slipping abuse for that reason. I can let the clutch out on my L/T and putter all around w/no throttle, or bring it in to a stop. The friction zone is a good thing until the Dry clutch gets hot.
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post #11 of 22 Old Aug 3rd, 2007, 5:50 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbiker
Ted,

I read to hold the rpm's around 2500 because the spinning engine and pistons keep the bike steady.

That's the high rpm's I meant.

Sounds like you are advocating the same thing - just at 2,000 rpm's. Is that right?

Thanks

mike

You can spin the engine all ya want, but I don't see how that "keeps the bike steady"

If you maintain a steady RPM under 2000, you can use the clutch to control speed and not over heat the clutch. The most difficult part of this for me the habit of pulling the clutch all the way in. I spent a whole day at the motor school here in SacTown and I couldn't break that habit. Kept pulling in the clutch and having to put my foot down because I lost power and momentum.

__________
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2006 DRZ400E

2007 G650 X Challenge
2006 GT200
2005 R1200GS


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post #12 of 22 Old Aug 3rd, 2007, 7:20 pm
 
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Clutch

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimVipond
My dry clutch turned into a wet one at 36,000 miles when the transmission fluid decided to move in, and was replaced under warranty. Didn't have a clutch issue for the next 101,000 miles and then I sold it. Anybody else get over 100,000 miles on a clutch with no problems? I ride with a sport bike club nearly every weekend and get about 8,000 miles on a rear tire, which might give you a riding style comparison.
I replaced the clutch in my '99 at 130 or 150k, don't remember which. It was NOT worn out but had gotten out of balance causing a severe vibration, replacement fixed the vibes.
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post #13 of 22 Old Aug 3rd, 2007, 7:49 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedhudson
You can spin the engine all ya want, but I don't see how that "keeps the bike steady"

If you maintain a steady RPM under 2000, you can use the clutch to control speed and not over heat the clutch. The most difficult part of this for me the habit of pulling the clutch all the way in. I spent a whole day at the motor school here in SacTown and I couldn't break that habit. Kept pulling in the clutch and having to put my foot down because I lost power and momentum.
Hi Ted,

From the way I saw it explained, the rotating engine acts like the forces of a spinning wheel. You've probably spun a bicycle wheel you were holding it and then tried to make it change direction only to find you were struggling against the gyroscopic forces. Alegedly, it's those gyro forces created by high rpm's that steady the bike.

That's just the way I heard it explained - don't blame me if it's not true.

BTW - I just went to the Motorman site www.ridelikeapro.com and under FAQ's he says as long as you keep your rpm's under 2000 and give the bike a break every so often, you won't burn your clutch. That was the first question so I guess it's common. Also, it seems like the 2500 rpm's I was told to keep it at is a bit high. What do you think?

mike
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post #14 of 22 Old Aug 3rd, 2007, 8:41 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbiker
Hi Ted,

From the way I saw it explained, the rotating engine acts like the forces of a spinning wheel. You've probably spun a bicycle wheel you were holding it and then tried to make it change direction only to find you were struggling against the gyroscopic forces. Alegedly, it's those gyro forces created by high rpm's that steady the bike.

That's just the way I heard it explained - don't blame me if it's not true.

BTW - I just went to the Motorman site www.ridelikeapro.com and under FAQ's he says as long as you keep your rpm's under 2000 and give the bike a break every so often, you won't burn your clutch. That was the first question so I guess it's common. Also, it seems like the 2500 rpm's I was told to keep it at is a bit high. What do you think?

mike
Yes this is correct, the mechanical motion of the internal engine components act like a gyroscope and that is what help stabelizes the motorcycle.

Regards & Ride Safe!

Bruce
'09 Black LT
4-Wheels moves the body, 2-wheels moves the soul.
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post #15 of 22 Old Aug 3rd, 2007, 10:30 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmo1137
Yes this is correct, the mechanical motion of the internal engine components act like a gyroscope and that is what help stabelizes the motorcycle.
So I guess if I come to a stop and red line it I don't have to put my feet down?

John
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post #16 of 22 Old Aug 4th, 2007, 3:54 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
So I guess if I come to a stop and red line it I don't have to put my feet down?
You laugh - or at least your little smiley does

However, I was told of a guy who came to a stop and never put his feet down for at least a minute. I was told by a person who saw him do it.

I'm thinking that may have been his trick - along with an amazing sense of balance.

I have seen bicyclists do it at stop lights every once in a while - and who knows what the rpm's are of their engines - they're too quiet to hear

See, I can make my little guy do it, too!

mike
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post #17 of 22 Old Aug 4th, 2007, 8:52 am
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Yeah Mike I was poking fun, just for fun.

If the gyroscopic force of the rotating engine was significant enough to stabilize the bike then the forces of gyroscopic precession would cause the front wheel to lift or swing outward everytime you tried to lean into a corner. Oh and we have not even taken into account the forces of the spinning wheels as gyroscopes. Dang all those physics classes in college, they take the fun out of reality.

John
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2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #18 of 22 Old Aug 4th, 2007, 12:38 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
Yeah Mike I was poking fun, just for fun.
Hey, I can take it as well as I can dish it out, so, no problem. I've seen more than a few posts on forum boards where they just take things too seriously. You should see some of the "discussions" on the ZX-12R boards!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeilerDang
all those physics classes in college, they take the fun out of reality.
25 years later, I WISH I had taken physics. Although it wasn't offered at Berklee College of Music at the time. Then again, I'd probably be insufferable - as if I'm not already!

I digress, back to the hijacked thread. What part does centripital (not centrifical) force play?

Mike
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post #19 of 22 Old Aug 4th, 2007, 12:53 pm Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=mrbiker]You laugh - or at least your little smiley does

However, I was told of a guy who came to a stop and never put his feet down for at least a minute. I was told by a person who saw him do it.

I'm thinking that may have been his trick - along with an amazing sense of balance.



I've seen two riders doing it at the same time, one was on a trike and the other a sidecar..
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post #20 of 22 Old Aug 4th, 2007, 1:25 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbiker
What part does centripital (not centrifical) force play?

Mike
I think that works on bikes with heavy flywheels that turn in the same axial plane as the wheels, like an HD. The K1200LT motor turns on an axis 90 degrees away from that, so I don't think you get any of that same benefit.

Blessings!
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post #21 of 22 Old Aug 5th, 2007, 4:18 pm
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My 1999LT has 138,000 miles with no clutch problems. And the only thing I do not do is slip the clutch during drag style take off's....
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post #22 of 22 Old Aug 5th, 2007, 7:03 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taz
My 1999LT has 138,000 miles with no clutch problems. And the only thing I do not do is slip the clutch during drag style take off's....

Now that's music to my ears!
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