Need help in Vernal, UT - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 25 Old Jul 20th, 2007, 11:06 pm Thread Starter
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Need help in Vernal, UT

Over 700 miles on my one year planned trip to Yellowstone and I'm here in Vernal, UT, with some kind of big problem.
I would like opinions on what I could do on that if you won't mind sharing your and your time.

I had the valve check before the trip and after about 600 miles I realized that the valve cover gasket was liking oil.

Well. not so big deal. I stop at a Napa store, bought oil (Mobil 1 syn and there is the first question: is there any other syn oil that I can mix with BMW oil?)
bought gasket seal, paper toels, breake cleaner, fill the oil and rode 100 miles to Vernal. A bigger town with a good Motel with Internet.
Removed the whole left side of the bike panels, removed valve cover, clean very well the gasket I had, put the right seal and put the cover back.

THEN!!!!!!: I STRIP ONE HOLE

I want do die!!!! '

Called couple buddies and rule out some options to finally have some sort of plan for tomorrow, but I'm open to other ideas if you won't mind.

I rule out filling the hole (BTW, it's the lower, back. the last one on the lower), with JB welding tonight and tapping a new hole/thread tomorrow after 15 hours. Talked to a dealer that rule this out. Too much heat. But could not find a mechanic that could give me 'what to do' (They were close and I spoke with the Service Manager)

Then, right now, my buddy's idea for tomorrow:
There is a Yamaha dealer near by.
I will go there and try to find a screew a little longer, to see if there is any thread left on the hole longer then the screew. (I don't know if there is).
Then, put the silicone HighTemp all around the casket and put the cover back, with all 8 working screws and the 9th. one being a longer one, with blue locktite.

Any other ideas are very welcome and if you are near Vernal, stop by to see my misery!!!..

Elton - 951-255-0701

Thank you

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post #2 of 25 Old Jul 20th, 2007, 11:13 pm
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Get you home mode.

Loctite makes a spray on product that is a little messy but will seal a leak from the outside until you can get some where you can work on the problem.

You clean up the outside with brake clean and spray this stuff on and it works. I don't recall what the name of it is but you should be able to get it at a good auto parts store.
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post #3 of 25 Old Jul 20th, 2007, 11:21 pm
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Go back to the NAPA store and see if they have a Hilicoil thread repair kit... they most likely will have one, or will be able to get you one.... the problem is that you will need to drill the hole before you install the hilicoil... but I am sure as many cordless drills as there is around, you will be able to find someone to help you out. Once you install the hilicoil, put the bolt back in and your done.
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post #4 of 25 Old Jul 20th, 2007, 11:26 pm
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Hi Elton,

I can't help with your problem, but if you find yourself near Salt Lake City on or after Tuesday, and can use some help, I can help you with a ride, garage to work in, etc. (I'll be down in Cedar City until Tuesday, mid-day).

The local BMW dealer is north of me, about 20 minutes--in case you wind up needing their services. They changed hands recently and now are very friendly and helpful.

Hopefully, you'll get everything taken care of in Vernal and be on your way, but if not, I'm here. Good luck. If you need to call me on Tuesday, here's my number: (801) 257-0433.

Larry Schumer
Salt Lake City, UT

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post #5 of 25 Old Jul 21st, 2007, 12:01 am
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Howdy, I have a BMW Anonymous book I can look up some help.

It would be my first choice to use the Helicoil... it's a "permanent" fix.

...............
J.M.J...
Dcn Channing

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post #6 of 25 Old Jul 21st, 2007, 1:06 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfell
Howdy, I have a BMW Anonymous book I can look up some help.

It would be my first choice to use the Helicoil... it's a "permanent" fix.
On the Helicoil: I was told by one that Helicoil should be my last resource.
Cfell, what it would be a "permanent" fix?
Is there any issue doing it?

I wonder how BMW fix this situation.

I will let you guys know from tomorrow how the situation is going.
Now is too dark and I can't see what I'm doing

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post #7 of 25 Old Jul 21st, 2007, 1:14 am
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Your buddy's idea about the longer screw is the best idea. Also, Ace Hardware, Lowes, Home Depot, will all have a metric assortment that should do you if another bike or auto shop doesn't.

Helicoil best way to go after that.

Good Luck.

John

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post #8 of 25 Old Jul 21st, 2007, 1:21 am
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Smile

I had to do the same thing happen with mine, used the helicoil, no more leaking.
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post #9 of 25 Old Jul 21st, 2007, 1:35 am
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Helicoil is a purpose made product used by mechanics all over. Instead of a 'last resort', it's the 'right fix' when the 'easy' stuff (like longer bolts) have failed.

Many would consider it a first choice fix for such an occasion.

Tate

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post #10 of 25 Old Jul 21st, 2007, 2:37 am
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Smile Helicoil

Quote:
Originally Posted by strsout
I wonder how BMW fix this situation.
Probably tell you to replace the head!

IIRC the cover bolts are a special purpose fastener and you may not be able to duplicate the correct type in a longer version. If you do go to some sort of a longer fastener be very careful to not bottom it out in the hole and force a "pimple" on the cam bearing surface. This would decrease the cam bearing clearance and possibly cause the cam to sieze.

Preferred Method:

Helicoils are the de facto method to fix stripped threads, especially in aluminum. Study the installation procedure and take your time. Done right the repair is permanent. Check This

The cam bearing cap can be removed and taken to a drill press for repair. Might be your best option. Just make sure that you clean it well and lubricate the bearing surface before reinstalling the cap.

Good Luck!!!

Duane

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post #11 of 25 Old Jul 21st, 2007, 3:38 am
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Duane and the others have it correct. Remove the cam cap and install the proper HeliCoil.

If you're unsure, then take the cam cap to a local shop and have them do it, though that may be tougher on a Sunday.

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post #12 of 25 Old Jul 21st, 2007, 7:26 am
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Since you are dealing with low values on the torque setting for the bolts there is one other option which I have used successfully - Loctite makes a product for stripped thread repair.

"Loctite "Form A Thread" is suitable for Grade 5 Imperial and Grade 5.8 metric fasteners up to 25 mm diameter. The product is as easy to work with as any of our other technologies. Simply follow the instructions supplied with each kit. "Form A Thread" cures to a workable strength in around thirty minutes. Maximum strength is achieved in around two hours. This can be as high as 80% of the original strength of the joint."

Does not require drilling and binds well with aluminum as long as it's clean - I've used it for exactly the same repair on a 73 Honda CB 350F valve cover and it held up for years.

If you can find a small steel "bottle" brush like pipe fitters use it is a big help to remove any metal pieces that might be still stuck in the hole threads. You can get the brush at any hardware store in different sizes. Screw it in and out several times, then spray the hole with brake or carb cleaner, let it dry and give it a go.

No question the heli coil is the BEST repair, but any port in a storm...


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post #13 of 25 Old Jul 21st, 2007, 8:22 am
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Wisdom??

Hey Buddy;
I had to break my rule and check out the replies on this site.
This Loctite stuff sounds like a fix if the bolt does not work, unless it screws it up for a helicoil later if it does don't use it.
The helicoil is a good fix but doing it in a Motel Parking lot is not a good idea,I would make it the last resort.
Ok Linda and I will be on our way toward you in an hour,
I'll call.
This site never changes does it..
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post #14 of 25 Old Jul 21st, 2007, 8:52 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny
This site never changes does it..
Evidently not... thank you for your contribution in helping keep it that way!
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post #15 of 25 Old Jul 21st, 2007, 9:25 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny
This site never changes does it..
Here's my thought on it: Instead of whining about it, be part of the solution.



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post #16 of 25 Old Jul 21st, 2007, 9:30 am Thread Starter
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Ok. Morning here after a not so good night of sleep...

I like the idea of Loktite "Form A Trehad". I will try to find it in a hardware store here and give it a try.

Also, if is possible, I would like a little more info on the Helicoil deal:
Do I have to remove only that black can cap? (what I'm calling the valve cover with it's 9 screews?)
I'm asking because this post here:
"The cam bearing cap can be removed and taken to a drill press for repair."
What exactly is this part?

Sounds like I have to almost do a "Bucket valve change". Is that the case?
It would involve in locking the time chain, removing the shaft and so?
Sorry, but could not understand what do I have to remove in order to proper use the Helicoil solution.



One more thing: I read the torque schedule doc but could not find the one for the bumper holder. That transversal piece of frame that goes over the valve cover and you need to remove to access the valve cover. I just don't want ruin another thread


THank you for all the help so far.

--------------------------------
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2002 LT - 62,394 miles as of 08/05/2007
2003 GS - 20,960 miles as of 07/11/2008
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post #17 of 25 Old Jul 21st, 2007, 9:38 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strsout
Ok. Morning here after a not so good night of sleep...

I like the idea of Loktite "Form A Trehad". I will try to find it in a hardware store here and give it a try.

Also, if is possible, I would like a little more info on the Helicoil deal:
Do I have to remove only that black can cap? (what I'm calling the valve cover with it's 9 screews?)
I'm asking because this post here:
"The cam bearing cap can be removed and taken to a drill press for repair."
What exactly is this part?

Sounds like I have to almost do a "Bucket valve change". Is that the case?
It would involve in locking the time chain, removing the shaft and so?
Sorry, but could not understand what do I have to remove in order to proper use the Helicoil solution.



One more thing: I read the torque schedule doc but could not find the one for the bumper holder. That transversal piece of frame that goes over the valve cover and you need to remove to access the valve cover. I just don't want ruin another thread


THank you for all the help so far.
You can remove a bearing cap without removing the cam... I guess you could do it on the bike.. but you would need to be extra diligent to make sure you drilled true and square. If you do it on the bike, I would also take precautions to make sure you do not get any metal shavings in the top of the head. The best way would be to remove it of course... but I think with a little diligence, you could do it while it was on the bike.
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post #18 of 25 Old Jul 21st, 2007, 11:22 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strsout
Ok.

One more thing: I read the torque schedule doc but could not find the one for the bumper holder. That transversal piece of frame that goes over the valve cover and you need to remove to access the valve cover. I just don't want ruin another thread

THank you for all the help so far.
Elton, if that is the frame piece that is attached with two bolts (and the crash bumpers attach to it), then those two bolts are 21nM torque. I think it's labeled as 'skirt bracket' in the torque listing. Hopefully, someone else will verify for ya.
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post #19 of 25 Old Jul 21st, 2007, 12:59 pm Thread Starter
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Quick note: I will be in my way in 1 more hour.
I will post the full comments when I get the internet again.
Looks like it's fine now

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post #20 of 25 Old Jul 21st, 2007, 2:36 pm
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How is the transmission doing?
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post #21 of 25 Old Jul 21st, 2007, 11:50 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEhrler
How is the transmission doing?

Still the same. Not better, but not worst neither.
So I'm ridding it.


THe holecoil thing did the job on the valve cover, but still leaking drops from the gaskets...

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post #22 of 25 Old Jul 22nd, 2007, 12:38 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strsout
Still the same. Not better, but not worst neither.
So I'm ridding it.


THe holecoil thing did the job on the valve cover, but still leaking drops from the gaskets...
When you adjusted the valves did you replace the valve cover gasket or use the same one? Did you put some silicone adhesive on the gasket in the leak prone areas?
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post #23 of 25 Old Jul 22nd, 2007, 9:20 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEhrler
When you adjusted the valves did you replace the valve cover gasket or use the same one? Did you put some silicone adhesive on the gasket in the leak prone areas?
Yes. I replaced the gasket and put high temp. silicone adhesive. I must have put too little in one part.

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post #24 of 25 Old Jul 30th, 2007, 11:48 am Thread Starter
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I tough I should put a report here on what happens.

Saturday morning I was at the York Yamaha dealer in Vernal
http://www.yorkmotorsports.com/default.asp
with a helicoil kit that I bought at a Napa store near by and was prompt serviced by a very smart tech guy there (Josh? spell?).
As soon as I explain the problem and talked about the helicoil option to solve it he pick up the issue and was ready to work on it.
Very nice people on the store and he did the job in less then one hour with a little help on my part just because he never worked in a BMW engine before.
I was charged only for one hour service and he give me the oil to fill up the bike for free.
Highly recommend that dealer for service if you ever need one there.
So, before 11AM I was on the road again.

After about 100 miles I notice a small oil leaking from the gasket, probably due to a not so good re-assemble (that I did, not the dealer). I clean it up couple times them something very strange: the leaking stopped. I rode more than 1500 more miles and it's not leaking any more... how could that be?

Well, I got back home yesterday and I will have to do a good cleaning in the bike. We got a lot of mud in some dirt roads up there.

I would like to thank you all that help me with this issue. I learn more about what I can do with this bike after your wisdoms purring up here.

if you ever want to see few pictures and comments on that trip I put this web page:
http://www.viajareua.com/Yellowstone_2007.html

Thank you

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post #25 of 25 Old Jul 30th, 2007, 11:57 am
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Leaking was probably residual.... depending on how clean you got it.. or, the silicone finally "set"...

Either way, call it a "fix" until you pull it again.. then be ready..

...............
J.M.J...
Dcn Channing

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