Early LT vs. 05+ models..... - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 16 Old May 27th, 2007, 3:15 pm Thread Starter
 
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Smile Early LT vs. 05+ models.....

First , I want to say Hello to all ....this is my first post and this seems to be a great site....I have lurked for a bit and done a fair amount of "searching"and research here .....

Now on to my thread question: I am considering trading my 04 K1200GT (which I LOVE but my knees , even with the lowering plates, have a tough time on the all day or multi day rides I take these days - I am an "old" - 40- powerlifter and starting to have some fun with my knees) for an LT (of roughly same value). I would love a '05 model but they are still priced a bit more than my GT is worth (~$15K+ vs. ~$12K+) so I am thinking an '02-'04 is probably going to be most likely.

Given that, how significant are the differences between the earlier and later models? 15 hp is pretty significant sounding , but I know that can be deceptive given below 5500 rpm power is probably similar (torque figures for older vs. newer are quite similar ) so I am guessing without having ridden them that the higher hp new model only really feels stronger in the upper rpm band .... I know they will both pale next to my GT , but they are apples and oranges....

As for the other changes (I know the early lights suck and that is easily remidied) the most significant seems to be the auto center stand which would be nice but not necessary for me. Is the low speed handling much different? I know minor front end geometry was changed to help it....

Reliability seems to be pretty good (despite the rampant posts of rear end failures and other small items , I WILL have a warranty though - no headaches for me on such a gizmo loaded machine).

Sorry for the "book" and I appreciate the input.....
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post #2 of 16 Old May 27th, 2007, 3:32 pm
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Hello and welcome to the forum.

As you probably know, the LT is designed for comfort and long distance. With that in mind, you will see many differences:

1) The weight factor will be much greater then your GT (both pre/post '05 LTs have that same condition compared to your GT although '05 and beyond handle significantly better at low speed)

2) The performance will be vastly different and neither will compare to your GT. The power will be a little better on the '05 and above but still not really compare to your GT. Your GT handling will also be somewhat snappier and you won't scrape as quickly as on the LT. So for agressive riding, the LT is good but the GT can handle more agressive cornering.

3) The ergos will be more friendly and that is a good thing. You will have more room, sit more upright and be able to move around more.

4) You will have music which is also nice.

5) You will have greater storage capacity with the LT

6) The '05 will be a little easier to reach the ground but you need to compare the '04 and '05 seating position for yourself to see which is more comfortable.

7) Don't believe the '05 lighting is any better. (I don't believe Xenons were offered until '06)

8) All around I believe the LT will be smoother and you will not have as much vibration. It will also be more stable overall.

If you make the leap, keep in mind that you may not have enough value in your GT to get an '05 LT but anything after '02 (03 - 04) has the servo linked brakes and less trouble with the rear end . You should easily be able to get into one of them.

Just my opinion.

Good Luck and I am sure more people will chime in..
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post #3 of 16 Old May 27th, 2007, 3:41 pm Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rglassma
If you make the leap, keep in mind that you may not have enough value in your GT to get an '05 LT but anything after '02 (03 - 04) has the servo linked brakes and less trouble with the rear end . You should easily be able to get into one of them.
Thanks , rglassma.....I appreciate your detail. I wanted to clarify, does the '02 HAVE the servo linked brakes or only after '02...meaning 03-04?

I have found that these days I do less "performance" riding ...... usually when I do get time to ride now , its an all day ride with several friends/family (most of which have H-D's) or a long weekend in the Texas hill country with the same folks......so I think the LT may fit me better , especially now that my wife can come along over 50% of the time (if SHE is comfy then Pappa gets to ride more often and that is what its all about , right) and the LT will definitely be more comfy for her.

I appreciate your help.....
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post #4 of 16 Old May 27th, 2007, 3:52 pm
 
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Here is a sick deal on an 05' for $12,900. I would go for an 05' or newer myself. In fact I went with an 06' and love it although I'd look for one with an aftermarket seat or expect to get one later if you're doing any long distance riding. Good luck with the hunt!

http://www.bmwmoa.org/flea/detail.ph...d=4318&catid=1

Expires: 06/23/2007 (27 days)
Posted: 05/24/2007
Viewed: 171 Times


Seller: BillZeller (MOA #115451)
E-mail: [email protected]
Phone: 603 568-8007 or 6634


2005 K1200LT
Year: 2005
Make: BMW
Model: K1200LT
Location: Dunbarton Center, New Hampshire, USA
Price: $12,900

Miles: 15,000
Color: Blue
Engine Size(cc): 1200

Description: Blue with all the LT extras including ABS and electric/hydraulic center stand. Also is wired with Autocom intercom system and has a Cee Bailey's windshield. 15,000 adult miles. At age 70 and 140# it is a bit heavy for me so I got a R1200RT and I need to sell this one. KBB lists it at $15,985 so you can save over $3,000.
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post #5 of 16 Old May 27th, 2007, 6:41 pm
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Based on what I have been led to believe, I am under the impression that '03 is when they started the linked servo-assisted brakes. Now, I had this discussion with a friend of mine that has an '02 and he claims to have the servo-assisted brakes but I suspect that might not be true.

Foothills BMW in Denver describes the brakes as follows:

Front: BMW EVO, two 4-piston calipers,sintered metal pads
Rear: Single 4-piston fixed caliper, sintered metal pads

No mention of Linked Servo Assisted.

Someone else will have to verify for sure because I may be wrong, but I believe it started in '03. I would regardless, go with an '03 anyway due to far lower failure rates in the rear end which has been confirmed and documented repeatedly on this site. Plus, I also would like to add that the LTC model (which I own) has a 6 disc CD in one side and a single disc CD in the tank compartment.

Thanks.
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post #6 of 16 Old May 27th, 2007, 10:00 pm
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When I bought my LT, I had a choice of an end of year 2001 (one of two remaining) or a 2002. The 2002 had the linked servo brakes but the 2001 had no linking and no servo. I bought the 2001 because I found the brakes to have a better feel plus I do not like linked brakes.

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post #7 of 16 Old May 28th, 2007, 4:32 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shriker
Thanks , rglassma.....I appreciate your detail. I wanted to clarify, does the '02 HAVE the servo linked brakes or only after '02...meaning 03-04?

I have found that these days I do less "performance" riding ...... usually when I do get time to ride now , its an all day ride with several friends/family (most of which have H-D's) or a long weekend in the Texas hill country with the same folks......so I think the LT may fit me better , especially now that my wife can come along over 50% of the time (if SHE is comfy then Pappa gets to ride more often and that is what its all about , right) and the LT will definitely be more comfy for her.

I appreciate your help.....
02 has the linked brakes. But has the highest rear end failures. 03 or 04 would be better....

Matt Kas

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post #8 of 16 Old May 28th, 2007, 4:40 am
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I have the '03 model and to answer some of your questions about the changes to later models this is how I see it;
1. I would like the hydraulic stand but in view of some of the problems with this and that it makes oil changes slightly more difficult I think I'm happy to live without it.
2. The engine changes may sound significant on paper but I've driven both models and couldn't even tell the differance. I seldom rev mine above 4K revs anyway. The newer models use more fuel, according to my dealer, but I'm not sure about this.
3. The fork changes were, I believe, to stop a slight tendancy to weave at slow speeds. I can't say I have even noticed this problem, although, this may be a useful "mod" if it helps in any way.
4. The seat on the newer bikes is less well padded. I prefer the older seat as I'm 6' I don't find touching the floor a significant problem.
5. I don't like the new instruments on the later models but thats just a personal thing.
6. They stopped doing the colour I liked on later models, in the UK you could only have Gold, blue or black.

You should be able to find a low mileage bike even a few years old so this may not be too much of a problem. BTW may knees hurt on the LT after a long run.

Good luck with your hunt!
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post #9 of 16 Old May 28th, 2007, 7:02 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rglassma
Based on what I have been led to believe, I am under the impression that '03 is when they started the linked servo-assisted brakes. Now, I had this discussion with a friend of mine that has an '02 and he claims to have the servo-assisted brakes but I suspect that might not be true.

Foothills BMW in Denver describes the brakes as follows:

Front: BMW EVO, two 4-piston calipers,sintered metal pads
Rear: Single 4-piston fixed caliper, sintered metal pads

No mention of Linked Servo Assisted.

Someone else will have to verify for sure because I may be wrong, but I believe it started in '03. I would regardless, go with an '03 anyway due to far lower failure rates in the rear end which has been confirmed and documented repeatedly on this site. Plus, I also would like to add that the LTC model (which I own) has a 6 disc CD in one side and a single disc CD in the tank compartment.

Thanks.
In the US, the brakes were changed for the '02 model year. If the front calipers have BMW on them, they are the servo brakes. If they have BREMBO on them, they do not.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

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post #10 of 16 Old May 28th, 2007, 8:39 am
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When I started looking to buy an LT last August (I also used to own a K1200RS for years), I originally decided to look for a 2005+ version. Most of the 2005+ models seemed to be priced at $15K up to $18K range. I ended up buying a 2002 with only 9600 miles for $10.5. Lots of LT's were sold from '99-'04 and some folks bought them and didn't ride them much. While admittedly low mileage examples are more difficult to find, they are out there. Since the pre-'05's performance differences were neglegible, I went that way.

Of course, I have probably spent $3K since on farkles and comfort upgrades . Likely would have spent the same on an '05+ though, too.

Good luck, the LT is a fun machine.

Mike M

2007 K1200GT Dark Graphite
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post #11 of 16 Old May 28th, 2007, 8:49 am
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Thanks for clearing that up.... '03 - '04 is the way to go for your price in my opinion for features, etc.

Remember one other thing, BMW started breaking out standard features after '04 so the designation LTC, LTE, LTS which included things like 6 disk cd, alarm system, heated seats/grips were items that you paid extra for in later models. So, if you purchase a later model, make sure that for the money, you are comparing apples to oranges with earlier models. You may want to look into the different designations for earlier models and understand the difference (LTC - Custom, LTE - Elite, LTS - standard, etc.)

I have an '03 LTC which features:

1) 6 disk cd, single disk cd, AM/FM Weather Band (LTC)
2) Heated Seats/Grips (LTC)
3) Cruise Control
4) Full trip computer (LTC)
5) Chrome accents / strips (LTC)
6) Top Rack with Stop Light (LTC)
7) Linked ABS Servo Brakes
8) Crappy low beam and high beam (All LTs)
9) Security Alarm System (LTC)

I am sure there are postings on the forum that talk about the different features. In the newer models, the bike is more or less ala carte like the RT and GT are in '06 and '07...

Others please chime in on the features list if I screwed something up or forgot something...

Good Luck
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post #12 of 16 Old May 28th, 2007, 9:44 am Thread Starter
 
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Thanks all for the excellent information......

of course I would much prefer an 05 and if I can get a good price for my pristine 04 GT , I may be able to budget it. The power and the general newer condition with fewer bugs/problems are the two things I REALLY like most. I love the hydro stand but its not necessary, the low speed handling improvements sound very minor, the light improvement sounds minimal at best and the instruments are marginally nicer. It also sounds like the "improvements" to the seat are more for height challenged riders (I am 6'1" and would prefer a taller height)

I have found a local 02 in Champagne that has low miles (under 10K) and appears to be in very good to excellent condition. I am going to closely inspect/ride it next week. I beleive it is either a Icon or Custom model but not sure until next week.

I actually like the servo brakes on my GT (except the occassional abruptness at low speeds) especially two up loaded.
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post #13 of 16 Old May 28th, 2007, 10:06 am
 
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If I were buying an LT today, it would definitely be a post-'04 model. Then again, I already owned a pre-'05. I've grown to like the aesthetic (albeit subtle) differences that the newer LT's have. Dual headlights, trunk trim, more trim on/in the side vent. And that redesigned dash is WAY cooler than the older LTs. And the extra ponies and torque above 5K wouldn't make me mad either.
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post #14 of 16 Old May 28th, 2007, 10:55 am
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Here is my 2 cents.

Depreciation on these beast is significant. You can knock of another $4-5 k between a newer model and get an '03. And there is a double wammy effect, because not only a will you pay more up front you will lose more through depreciation while you own it.

Having ridden both all I wish the '03 had was the electric stand. So for me the only thing I was buying with a new model was higher up front costs and more depreciation.

Buy one with low to medium miles and an extended warrantee until 2009/10. Pocket the savings ( I bet it will be 5-8k in the end) and when your warrantee runs out buy the 'new' lt with the savings as a down payment.
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post #15 of 16 Old May 28th, 2007, 11:57 pm Thread Starter
 
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Hdfan....that is what I was thinking exactly.....if the differences between the older and newer LT's are not that significant, the savings would be worth it and I will still have 90% as much bike . Being on a budget for this limits me anyway so .....

I sure hope there is a NEW LT coming in the next year or two, something to look forward to.......
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post #16 of 16 Old May 29th, 2007, 9:19 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rglassma
Thanks for clearing that up.... '03 - '04 is the way to go for your price in my opinion for features, etc.

Remember one other thing, BMW started breaking out standard features after '04 so the designation LTC, LTE, LTS which included things like 6 disk cd, alarm system, heated seats/grips were items that you paid extra for in later models. So, if you purchase a later model, make sure that for the money, you are comparing apples to oranges with earlier models. You may want to look into the different designations for earlier models and understand the difference (LTC - Custom, LTE - Elite, LTS - standard, etc.)

I have an '03 LTC which features:

1) 6 disk cd, single disk cd, AM/FM Weather Band (LTC)
2) Heated Seats/Grips (LTC)
3) Cruise Control
4) Full trip computer (LTC)
5) Chrome accents / strips (LTC)
6) Top Rack with Stop Light (LTC)
7) Linked ABS Servo Brakes
8) Crappy low beam and high beam (All LTs)
9) Security Alarm System (LTC)

I am sure there are postings on the forum that talk about the different features. In the newer models, the bike is more or less ala carte like the RT and GT are in '06 and '07...

Others please chime in on the features list if I screwed something up or forgot something...

Good Luck
I totally agree. Also, I think the most reliable model years are 03-04 in my opinion.

Matt Kas

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