Rear Brake and Slow Speed Handling - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 17 Old May 25th, 2007, 4:12 pm Thread Starter
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Rear Brake and Slow Speed Handling

Many of you have probably seen the DVD by Jerry Palladino on slow speed motorcycle handling. It is excellent. He advocates using the rear brake only. I spoke to him and he said with the BMW 1200LT utilizing the rear brake only at slow speeds will not activate the front brake. My BMW dealer disagrees and says that at any speed use of one brake will activate the other.

I was able to use Jerry's technique easily on the heaviest Harley but to me it doesn't seem to work on the LT. What is your experience?
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post #2 of 17 Old May 25th, 2007, 4:25 pm
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That is also my understanding of how the LTs brake system works. If there is a way to just use the rear brake, it is not mentioned in the owner's manual. However, there is apparently a valve that apportions pressure to the front and rear as needed, so it might be possible that at low speeds it puts more pressure to the rear brakes. Any mechanics out there that know how this works?

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post #3 of 17 Old May 25th, 2007, 4:49 pm
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possibly

I have no idea how the system works, and tried finding a way to disable the interlock between front and rear when I bought the bike, to no avail.....however, using techniques learned at work, I have found that very light pressure on the foot pedal at slow speeds will give some rear braking without the front misbehaving. If you go to far with the foot, the front will kick in a you run the chance of putting the bike on its side. I know that there is a diffence in the mechanicals between hand brake and foot brake, just listen to the squeal from the pads when you apply the different brakes, it makes a different pitch depending on which brake you use.

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post #4 of 17 Old May 25th, 2007, 5:26 pm
 
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Yes...low speeds + rear brake level = ONLY rear brake.

One thing that I did a lot of was practice doing U-Turns when I owned my LT. 20' was not an issue, 18' took some practice but is very doable with the big beast. Quite frankly, I enjoyed practicing with the LT in empty parking lots. It made me feel . . . umm . . . like a motorcop!
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post #5 of 17 Old May 25th, 2007, 5:37 pm
 
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I believe your right Skip, mine (rear pedal) seems to apply the rear first and gradually apply front according to foot pressure with the opposite reaction from the hand lever. The front brake supplying 70 or more percent of stop is much more responsive on the hand lever. The foot interlock (i believe) is gradual to keep the rear tire from skidding or overworking the anti-lock and keeps the bike level with the addition of the front-pressure-dive. Thats the cool thing about the integrated brakes w/ABS especially in corners and on a wet surface. The bike stays fairly level (except in a hard front brake press). Parking lot speeds should always be controlled with the rear brake. When applying the front brake on any bike in a parking lot turn you have a much greater chance of "falling down" (was'nt that a movie) .
Furthermore, i am not sure all of that came out right.
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post #6 of 17 Old May 25th, 2007, 6:30 pm
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I "lightly" drag the rear brake.. at walking speed and below, almost no feel on front braking... and when you lift on the brake the bike will "stand up" quickly.

There are a couple versions of doing this.. one is to apply steady throttle and "feather" the brake for your speed.... the other inverts those inputs.. steady brake, feather throttle and clutch.

My 05 LT likes the second option... steady, LIGHT brake, steady throttle and feather clutch...

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post #7 of 17 Old May 25th, 2007, 6:33 pm Thread Starter
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Joe,

Where did you get the info that the rear brake at alow speeds applys only rear brake pressure. I would like to show it to my dealer who says this is not correct and that at any speed applying the rear brake also engages the front.

Thanks.

Billy
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post #8 of 17 Old May 25th, 2007, 6:42 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy
Joe,

I would like to show it to my dealer who says this is not correct and that at any speed applying the rear brake also engages the front.

Thanks.

Billy
Why bother? Just know that a SLIGHT rear brake pressure yealds most braking to the rear brake. You MUST akso feather the clutch and keep the RPM's up towards 25K. When I do a deep counter-balance I can turn in a 16' circle with one up only, 18' with 2 up.

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post #9 of 17 Old May 25th, 2007, 8:24 pm
 
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Originally Posted by Billy
Joe,

Where did you get the info that the rear brake at alow speeds applys only rear brake pressure.
In my garage. You can experiment with how the brakes work very simply by putting the LT up on it's centerstand and playing with the brake levers. Having an assistant makes the job a lot easier.

Maybe someday I'll make a video so I can put an end to the debate once and for all. Then again, I ride a GT so I guess it just doesn't matter. The rear brake lever on the GT ONLY applies rear brakes all of the time. That's the difference between the LT's "Integral" system, and the GT's "Partially Integral" system.
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post #10 of 17 Old May 25th, 2007, 10:27 pm
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It is pressure input to the rear brake pedal that determines the breakover point, not speed. The rear lightly applied will produce pressure at the rear caliper only. At some arbitrary point above "light" the rear input will also produce pressure on the front calipers. This I verified during my last full system flush. You can actually "hear" the second servo kick in at a certain point.

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post #11 of 17 Old Jun 15th, 2007, 11:16 am
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slow handling

It also seems to me that one needs to avoid at slow speeds any excessive deflections of the handle bars. Also, I find that using reverse for just about all backing makes for more stability and less liklihood your foot will slip out.

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post #12 of 17 Old Jun 15th, 2007, 6:02 pm
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Was able WITH PRACTICE to trail rear brake, both for slow speed and hot cornering on the 02. with the 07 it seems easier. Have done both the ERC and Police Motor courses with no problems (coming from brake application) ;-P

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post #13 of 17 Old Jun 15th, 2007, 11:03 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
Yes...low speeds + rear brake level = ONLY rear brake.

One thing that I did a lot of was practice doing U-Turns when I owned my LT. 20' was not an issue, 18' took some practice but is very doable with the big beast. Quite frankly, I enjoyed practicing with the LT in empty parking lots. It made me feel . . . umm . . . like a motorcop!


WHO IS THIS GUY??????????
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post #14 of 17 Old Jun 15th, 2007, 11:19 pm
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Talking

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WHO IS THIS GUY??????????
Just a guy from Ohio who posted once or twice on this forum...

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post #15 of 17 Old Jun 15th, 2007, 11:27 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
In my garage. You can experiment with how the brakes work very simply by putting the LT up on it's centerstand and playing with the brake levers. Having an assistant makes the job a lot easier.

Maybe someday I'll make a video so I can put an end to the debate once and for all. Then again, I ride a GT so I guess it just doesn't matter. The rear brake lever on the GT ONLY applies rear brakes all of the time. That's the difference between the LT's "Integral" system, and the GT's "Partially Integral" system.

AND THIS GUY????? MUST BE A HACKER !!!!!!! :rolleyes


Oh My God.....I'm from Ohio too.....is it contagious ??????
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post #16 of 17 Old Jun 16th, 2007, 7:20 am
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Rear Brake Handling

OK, I had only been riding the LT for less than 3000 miles when I took the Jerry Paladino course in FL. If it is true that the rear brake pedal only applies rear brakes, up to a point, then it is a very fine point and the front brake comes on real quick once that point is crossed. Being a new LT rider, I crossed that point twice and I dumped it twice. I have not tried the real tight turns since then. Perhaps I would do better now that I have more experience on the bike (20K). Mr Paladino took my bike and did much better than I, as you would expect, but I can tell you even he missed a few gates. For me, If I have the room, a 20' U turn is just fine.

Ultra LT
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post #17 of 17 Old Jun 16th, 2007, 10:04 am
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I agree with ultraLT. It is a fine line between rear and both brake actuation. I teach the MSF Experienced Rider Course and have dropped the LT more than once when I tapped the rear brake pedal and the front brakes activated while in the U-Turn box.

Tim Frederick
Woodbury, MN
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