Headshake revisited! - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 46 Old May 16th, 2007, 3:45 pm Thread Starter
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Headshake revisited!

Just a recent observation. My experience.
1st set of tires: Me 880's [email protected] 3200 miles (mileage @ purchase)
2nd set of tires: BT020's (radial) No headshake !
3rd set of tires: " " Terrible headshake from day one. (mounted by a diff. person)
Replaced only the front tire. BT020 (radial) No headshake.
It ain't the rear tire boys!

Doc
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post #2 of 46 Old May 18th, 2007, 1:28 pm
 
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fixed?

BMW just called me to say they fixed the shake on my 06'. I'll be on my way to pick it up and test this out for myself and if it is fixed I'll pass along the solution for mine.
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post #3 of 46 Old May 18th, 2007, 2:12 pm
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DARREN

What did they do to fix it......do you know?

Pat

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post #4 of 46 Old May 18th, 2007, 5:32 pm
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What's the answer.. what's the answer... how are the new tires feeling?

...............
J.M.J...
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post #5 of 46 Old May 18th, 2007, 5:42 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle
BMW just called me to say they fixed the shake on my 06'. I'll be on my way to pick it up and test this out for myself and if it is fixed I'll pass along the solution for mine.
Let us know, I am getting the LOOSE steering damper replaced under warrenty and will advise the results.

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post #6 of 46 Old May 18th, 2007, 5:58 pm
 
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Cool

The steering dampner replacement didn't fix it. for me, fyi. They replaced it even though they said it looked fine. In fact they had a plan to replace nearly the entire suspension piece by piece to figure out what the deal was. They kept the Metz 880's w/ 7400 or so miles on em cause they are still in excellent shape. I wasn't able to make it in time today to pick it up so the suspense builds as I wait for them to open tomorrow to go pick up my steed and try it out. It's been since 4/27/07 that I droppped it off and I'm having withdrawls.

I believe they replaced the front joint bearing or something like that and that finaly fixed it. I'll find out for sure and make sure I have the part numbers to pass along. It's nice that everything was covered and I didn't have to throw away any good tires. Anyway, I'll fill you in soon.
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post #7 of 46 Old May 18th, 2007, 8:05 pm
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My head shake was caused by an out of round Metz 880. I put a new one on 3k ago and she is still smooth as glass with the hands off 55 down to 20. Good luck with yours.

John
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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #8 of 46 Old May 21st, 2007, 8:34 am Thread Starter
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Like I said, I am very convinced that it is the front tire. It may be balancing issues but, I think it is an issue with the geometry of the front end being very susceptible to problems with the front tire. If the front tire is balanced, w/o any belt alignment issues, and the tire wasn't bead stretched improperly while mounting. This is a heavy beast and the problem worsens with front tire age.

Doc
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post #9 of 46 Old May 21st, 2007, 2:11 pm
 
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Here is a posting I recently placed on the topic.

"Hey guys/gals, well as promised I have been chasing down an answer to this violent 40 MPH deceleration wobble that many of us have experienced and I am passing along what BMW did to fix the wobble for me. I left my LT with Blue Moon Cycle BMW in Atlanta for 3 weeks while they tried different things to fix it. I applaud them for not simply blowing it off saying its the nature of the beast. After test riding it they agreed it was nothing like it should be.

My bike is now very smooth and again and I'm pretty happy. The decel shake is still there a little bit if I take my hands completely off of the bars or if I am barely touching them, but it's nothing like it was. Before I really had to hold the bars and hated how unstable and pronounced it felt on decel, it didn't feel normal, but now I can apply the smallest amount of pressure to keep things true and stable and I'm willing to settle with that. I realize that it is the nature of some big bikes to have this sensation, but in my experience this seemed rather extreme.

My 2006 LT and tires have about 8K miles on them and I'm running the Metz 880's. I suspect it would be even smoother with a new set of rubber, but again, this it once again really nice to ride, like when I first drove the LT new. Yeah I wish is were as smooth and nimble as my GS and that I could take my hands off, but it's not a GS. The LT is a big girl and demands a little respect and attention at times or she may turn on you and I'm all about giving it to her, and I'm okay with that.

Was it a complete fix? Mmmm maybe not as I wish it wasn't there at all, but it is tons better than it was and I no longer find it unsafe so I can deal with it like this. I don't ride the LT without my hands on the big girl often and since this feels resonable to me, I can live with it. I do wonder why a bike with such low mile would require this type of repair, but perhaps it's either due to the size/sensitivity of the bike or simply a bad batch of parts. It happens.

I am told that the key part they replaced that made the difference was the Lower Ball Joint, I think the part# is 31 42 7 681 040 for the new joint and 31 42 2 330 996 for the NUT.

They also replaced and tried other things before that such as the steering damper, rebalancing the tires, and other suspension related fixes, but these other attempts didn't help.

The work order says the cause of the worn lower Ball Joint going bad was the tire balance. I don't know if I really buy that or if was simply something they had to put in the order for warranty purpose. At any rate, everything was covered under warranty I'm happy to say.

For anyone with an LT experiencing what I considered to be an unreasonable and pronounced violent deceleration wobble, I hope that this helps you out. Again, Kudos to Blue Moon Cycle, I think they are the best dealer in Atlanta and I thank them for for sharing my concerns and finding an answer to my problem. Ride safely and ride often. ~darren"

Last edited by Seattle; May 21st, 2007 at 3:35 pm.
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post #10 of 46 Old May 21st, 2007, 8:11 pm
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My '03 did it for the first time this weekend. 19k miles on the front Metzler. It is a little cupped, was slowing down past 40 and the asphalt was a little rough. New tires coming up soon.

B D R
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post #11 of 46 Old May 22nd, 2007, 4:30 am
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I have been suffer this head shake since two tire change.
I also been change both tire and align my wheel and adjust balance.
It is not work!
It still shake and though I change my suspension's spring to hyperpro.
The condition still no change.
I think it is not cause by tire because BS->Metz->BS it happen.
My milage just 29000Km only and out of warranty now.
Who can solve this problem and it is design problem of LT?
Is change the jointer bearing mechanically helpful?
I would like your result and effect.
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post #12 of 46 Old May 22nd, 2007, 5:11 am
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Hi Arthur and welcome to the crew!
Lovely place Taiwan, would like to go back for another visit and see my friend there.
A number of us are still chasing the problem with our dealers, but as yet we do not seem to agree on a single solution, as there may be several factors combining to give the end result of the head shake/wobble.
Tyres are held by most as the main issue, but as you've also written, doesn't seem to be the solution for all of us (unless we're just plain unlucky with every tyre change!!!).
Did you put the variable rate Hyperpro on the bike, or non-variable rate one?
Interested to hear as I was thinking of that for a future upgrade if my dealer (or I) still cant find the main fault.
Darren (Seattle) has had major improvement with the Lower Ball Joint. I've sent his post to my dealer to try to get some more action, but they've been quiet so far. I'll give them a couple of days to think it through.

We've had several threads running on this issue... getting confusing

Keep in touch on this, hopefully we'll all resolve it somehow.
regards

Chris
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post #13 of 46 Old May 23rd, 2007, 8:12 am
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Hi CWS,
Thanks for your kindly response for this topic.
I am very glad be here that I know this forum for long but just sign in yesterday for this incredible headshake.
My dealer try to convince me to change the low ball jointer and it cost.
I am follow the agent here in Taiwan's sale suggestion to change spring to hyperpro which it didn't improve the headshake but more Q for riding and mine is not adjustable I think (you can find it on its webpage just one suitable for KLT).
I would send my bike to the dealer again which if I have solve it will post here.
You been stay in Taiwan? I work in Hsinchu and live in Kaohsiung.

Nice to be here and with my best regards,
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post #14 of 46 Old May 23rd, 2007, 8:58 am Thread Starter
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Replace the front tire again. This time have someone else mount and balance it at a different dealer or tire shop.
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post #15 of 46 Old May 23rd, 2007, 9:36 am
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KHLT,


I recommend the tires as well. I had the issue with a worn Metzeler and I replaced it with a tire that was out of round very slightly. I still had the shake. When I put the next tire on it was perfectly round and the shake is gone.

I spent 3 weeks in Tianan back in 2000, got to attend the Lantern Festival and get hit with all the fireworks - what great fun! Good luck with your bike.

John
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2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #16 of 46 Old May 23rd, 2007, 9:28 pm
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Hi Jzeiler,
Thank for advise as I have done twice change my tire and adjust my rim, Change my spring.
Some of people they suggest to add spacer 2~3mm in front damper but I think the spring could be much better.
The last I will do is change the low ball jointer that as "Seattle" "darren" suggesting. But I will make sure when my dealer do it. "31 42 7 681 040 for the new joint and 31 42 2 330 996 for the NUT."
Did you been Yanshui, Tainan joint the excite firework if the lantern festival was here. I growth up in Tainan
Will update the status when parts arrival.
I will try to talk to agent that ask them to compensation it.
Best regards,
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post #17 of 46 Old May 23rd, 2007, 10:49 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWS
Did you put the variable rate Hyperpro on the bike, or non-variable rate one?
Hi CWS,
Sorry that I loss your mean! Do you mean the progress spring?
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post #18 of 46 Old May 23rd, 2007, 10:56 pm
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Hyperpro - doh!!

Sorry Arthur, had "steering damper" & "Hyperpro" invariably linked in my mind, therefore misread your post! You have the springs, not the damper...
(from their web site)...

Hyperpro CSC The Hyperpro CSC (Constant Safety Control) steering damper is a high-tech linear-type damper. Although Hyperpro is known for their ultimate ‘progressive’ speed-sensitive steering damper, we discovered that some customers still prefer a conventional damper. To be able to offer this group Hyperpro steering damper kits, we decided to expand our range. So, besides still producing speed-sensitive steering dampers, we are now also able to offer you this new linear version.
By using the latest in 3D CAD/CAM (Computer Aided Design & -Manufacturing) software and machinery, we have been able to come up with a unique damper body design. All parts are fully billet machined, using CNC machines. Where possible, high-grade aluminium alloy is used to keep weight as low as possible. The damper is fully rebuild-able, because of the modular construction.



Hyperpro RSC The Hyperpro RSC (Reactive Safety Control) damper is an evolution compared to the previous steering damper. The re-developed speed-sensitive damping features an improved adjustability and a wider adjustment range.

The safety offered by the unique HYPERPRO active design is reason enough for every bike owner to have one. However the HYPERPRO philosophy of quality engineering has resulted in a damper with a number of additional features that make it truly exceptional.

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post #19 of 46 Old May 23rd, 2007, 11:10 pm
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oh, and I have a friend in Taipei who I visited for work a few years back. He took me through the National Palace Museum. It was stunning!
regards
Chris

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post #20 of 46 Old May 23rd, 2007, 11:38 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cws
oh, and I have a friend in Taipei who I visited for work a few years back. He took me through the National Palace Museum. It was stunning!
regards
Chris
This Saturday I will try to solve the idle problem and wait for parts"jointer".
Can be visit other country for work and take chance to visit some place even country site is so nice and luck
regards, Arthur
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post #21 of 46 Old May 28th, 2007, 6:38 am
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I have been charge my battery and check the vacumm of my LT.
Now the idle is stable at 1000rpm and I will send my LT to Taipei which request by agent of Taiwan for a detail check of headshake problem.
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post #22 of 46 Old May 29th, 2007, 6:53 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KHLT
I have been charge my battery and check the vacumm of my LT.
Now the idle is stable at 1000rpm and I will send my LT to Taipei which request by agent of Taiwan for a detail check of headshake problem.
I have been contact with the agent and give the low ball joint parts # of Seattle mention for their reference and prove if the # been change it means been modify and maybe improve. It will take one or two weeks for detail inspection. I will update here if I have solve it out.
Thanks for Settle's input and to have some way out this terrible issue.
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post #23 of 46 Old Jun 13th, 2007, 11:47 pm
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I sent my LT for detail inspection and the agent change many parts from new LT to try but it is not solve the problem.
It include I been change hyperpro spring both by dealer with paid.
They change the fork leg oil to re-measure it, ball jointer, tire balance, cast rim re-tie.
But it is not work for my LT.
They told me even in their new LT with this problem also. Can it be possible it is the defect of LT?
I can not image that BMW have been made this kind of defect for their product and my agent is waiting answer from BMW.
I ask my agent to send my LT back and see what is BMW response if they can have!
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post #24 of 46 Old Jun 14th, 2007, 12:02 am
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Hey Arthur, sorry to hear that, the situation really sucks!
Nothing to add from me, I'm still got to scrub another 5000km or so off my tyres before I try a new set to see if it helps.
Please continue to keep us up-to-date. It helps to spread the pain among friends.

Chris
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post #25 of 46 Old Jun 14th, 2007, 2:22 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KHLT
I sent my LT for detail inspection and the agent change many parts from new LT to try but it is not solve the problem.
It include I been change hyperpro spring both by dealer with paid.
They change the fork leg oil to re-measure it, ball jointer, tire balance, cast rim re-tie.
But it is not work for my LT.
They told me even in their new LT with this problem also. Can it be possible it is the defect of LT?
I can not image that BMW have been made this kind of defect for their product and my agent is waiting answer from BMW.
I ask my agent to send my LT back and see what is BMW response if they can have!

I never noticed any head shake on the new LT, but it was probably there, only so mild that I never would have noticed it unless I took my hands off the bars while decelerating around 40MPH which isn't something I do everyday. Now on the LT I just make sure I never do it. On the GS, no problem.

Later though as previously mentioned my LT head shake had become very obtrusive, but after replacing the lower ball joint it was again still somewhat there, but only very mild and only present when taking my hands off of the bars. I wish that it wasn't there at all, but at this point I am happy to just have the big bike feeling stable again and not like I'm about to throw a tire. I have chalked this up for now as a quirk about the bike that I have learned to work around and accept so long as it isn't feeling too obtrusive or dangerous.

Sorry you're still having an issue with this. Did you notice any improvement at all? What kind and how old are your tires? What is the tire pressure of the front and back? If they say it's in the new bikes too, have you test driven a new bike to compare how a new bike feels versus yours?

On a side note, several people have found this front end shake feature in several other bike models and manufacturers other than the BMW LT, especially with the larger bikes. Obviously there is something inherent in the design that makes the LT susceptible to this quirk. I wish BMW would put some engineers on top of this issue to find a complete resolution, but I suspect that they know it's going to cost them money in recalls if they do that. In addition they're getting ready to roll out the replacement to the LT and I get the impression that their desire is to ignore this design flaw in their flagship bike in the hopes that we will too.

As I mentioned, mine isn't so bad anymore, but I wish it weren't there at all. I didn't realize that it was a part of the bikes nature when I bought it and felt like full disclosure was never given about this issue. When a friend test drove a 2003 LT at a dealership while looking for a bike for him and his wife, I never said anything thinking it was just my bike. Well the LT he test drove happened to have the same bad shake issue. He rides mainly GS's and it really freaked him out and he was in disbelief that this flagship 7 series like bike could have such a flaw and he thought it felt unsafe and I was actually rather embarrassed at the time. I felt like someone had recognized a flaw in my girlfriend or something.

One thing I have noticed about this big sport tourer is that there aren't very many tires that are rated for this heavy of a bike and I wonder if a solution could be in designing a better tire. I would like to see a tire manufacturer engineer a quality set of tires around the LT specifically, or at least sized for a bike this big. As long as I've followed the tire threads, almost all the reviews have come across as hit or miss. After 8K miles I still have the same Metz 880's that came with my bike and they still have plenty of tread but they don't work for everyone. Since the LT is so susceptible to the slightest changes in the tire wear/balance/pressure, I wonder if something better suited couldn't be designed. Either that or it's in the frame somewhere. Just a thought. Other options could be to check with a custom bike builder to get their input on these kinds of issues. If it turns out to be something that is capable of being fixed in the design of the bike then we as a community could consider getting legal council to force BMW's hand and getting a recall started. It has certainly been done with many manufacturers in the past and I doubt BMW would want the negative publicity. In fact, putting some legal pressure on them regarding a safety issue may just get them to get off their butts and find a fix to this flaw.But from the other perspective, since this really only becomes an issue for most people when they have one or both hands off of the bars which is illegal, I'm not sure if there really is much of a case.

Anyway, sorry for the book. Just typed as I thought about it. When are you experiencing this issue and how prevalent is it while you're riding?
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post #26 of 46 Old Jun 14th, 2007, 6:57 am
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I am totally agree with your thinking.

In fact this is a very important safety concern that need BMW to solve it.
I have been have my tire pressure from 36psi~42psi that was happen.
To free hand is no doubt can be consider as dangerous behavior but is necessary to know your bike is go on the straight that when need to handle it can be trust that her will go on the direction you want to go!
I been try to have hands smoothly touch on the bar and find it will start to wobble and may cause very serious situation make me can't control my bike.
I am doubt about BMW design have main defect on this that also can be said that they are may not capability to have safety design for this big bike for riding safety. (At least we should not have this concern for safety? Do we)
As I told to agent here that we buy this bike is for safety feature that BMW should equipment not to worry about this kind of concern bear in mind?
Otherwise why we are chosen it. We can buy other brand with half price even 1/3 only!
The safety feature and reliability are what I am paid for it.
As I mention that I been change my tire with BS and M it was no change to good.
I think BMW they are design their flagship as this and they should not take the weight excuse to run away from it.
Honda GL's weight I think is not less than LT and they can be treat and modify as tractor to handle the malfunction car on the highway at somewhere in the world (Discovery channel been introduce).
I am suppose BMW is a good company and should be proud about their product and should be take the responsibility to solve the safety concern of the owner.
Of course I can not expect it can be a tractor but at least it should show its performance as expect we have.
I have no try to riding the new LT at agency place and I am try to get my bike back at this Saturday that will better than let her stay over there wait for the answer from BMW at unknown date.
I am very appreciated all your input and sharing the experience you have.

I will try my bike when I get it and keep post on this issue for sharing and hope BMW can be have positive response to have solution for us.
The agency here is try hard to solve it but they are fail I think.
They take apart all front parts and change many parts which take away from new. That I am thank but no improve and I have my old parts back to her.
The agency told me that they follow every SOP offer by BMW and not work.
I am sure my tire is good and new that is reason I feel it and try to fix it this time because before they doubt tire is too old. So I change it and it still there.(Both tire is new)
As agency told me that my dealer was put wrong direction rote on my new tire and they fix it!(What a good luck I have meet
Hope BMW can see this message and put attention for this issue to have correct action for this help us get off this concern.
Thanks and appreciated all your input and experience sharing. Lets wait for BMW's positive response to solve it!

In fact I have many defect happen to me that if I have some time will be check the forums and post it as complain together and sharing to all of you.
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post #27 of 46 Old Jun 16th, 2007, 10:53 am
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This morning I got my LT back and have 300KM ride today.
Actually It has little improvement but no well-done.
Thanks for my agency try hard to try solve even it not solve yet.

The original it will start shake from 40Km/Hr ~ 70Km/hr come out at around 2 sec. I didn't try higher speed because it will go as dance.
Now it is little shake at 40~50Km/hr happen around 3~5sec. but upper I didn't try Because I don't think it is solve and no need to try.

I have change OEM spring to Hyperpro.
Add 2mm of spacer.
Change both tire to right correct rotation.
Change the ball jointer which take from New Demo bike.

Shake still there maybe comes out little late!!

Next step got suggestion from friends is change the damper to some kind can be adjust instead of OEM!(not official opinion)
But I don't think it can be work.

The best way can be solve I am still waiting from BMW.
Hope can have it soon.
BMW BMW we are wait for you!!
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post #28 of 46 Old Jun 16th, 2007, 6:08 pm
 
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Well for what it is worth, they replaced my old dampner with a new OEM one even though it looked fine and it didn't help. Are you thinking of trying a Hyperpro model or something similar? I ask because I don't think you'll find what you're looking for out of it, but I could be wrong. I would just hate to see you throw away your money chasing that proverbial windmill. It's a quandary!
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post #29 of 46 Old Jun 16th, 2007, 8:32 pm
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I have a o6 lt I replaced the steering damper with a hyperpro and it did not help replaced the tires with avon storms and ballanced them my shelf wobble gone competely
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post #30 of 46 Old Jun 16th, 2007, 11:34 pm
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I need to say except the spring cost me, other is paid by agency.
My time is no cost. My concern is no cost!
Thanks to my agency take the responsible try to solve it.
The initial design need BMW to review that to improve it to excellent.
The damper I will take chance to change it.
Tire I may try Mich.. next time that I have got some suggestion also.
But I am still think that we are use the recommend tire from OEM.
The root cause analysis should be the responsibility of OEM not user since we have the same problem with it.
It can not be treat as individual behavior.
Safety concern should be our focus to decrease potential risk may have.

BMW BMW it time for your show.

Last edited by KHLT; Jun 16th, 2007 at 11:37 pm. Reason: miss type
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post #31 of 46 Old Jun 17th, 2007, 5:51 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KHLT
I have change OEM spring to Hyperpro.
Add 2mm of spacer.
Change both tire to right correct rotation.
Change the ball jointer which take from New Demo bike.

Shake still there maybe comes out little late!!


Hope can have it soon.
BMW BMW we are wait for you!!
It also include the front fork leg re-measure and rim Hex-Bolt, balance weitht Axle-shaft ...check...
I doubt they have been change the steering damper for me because it was too new and clean for me!
Anyway.. Call of BMW

Last edited by KHLT; Jun 17th, 2007 at 7:49 am. Reason: add some more word
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post #32 of 46 Old Jun 18th, 2007, 11:11 pm
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Head Shake

New tires fixed LT's shake. New tapered steering head bearings fixed same problem on my VFR.

1999 K1200LT Beemer
1999 VFR 800 Honda
1983 550 Yamaha Vision(in shed)
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post #33 of 46 Old Jun 19th, 2007, 3:36 am
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Tire with 3000Km up-to-date I think it is too early for me to say it is old.
But next will keep watch of it and wait for BMW.
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post #34 of 46 Old Jun 20th, 2007, 11:08 am
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I call to the agency and they said there is no answer from BMW yet.
I don't know why it take so long for them to have better answer?
If there is no problem they should be answer very quick!
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post #35 of 46 Old Jun 25th, 2007, 8:11 pm
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headshake / wobble

.....call it what you will.

I received an "official" response from my BMW dealer this morning regarding the effect, as follows:

Quote: "I have made some enquiries over the last couple of weeks regarding your steering wobble.

I have been officially advised by way of a Technical report from the factory that the steering wobble you are experiencing is a characteristic attributed to the suspension geometry of the Motorcycle and any replacement of suspension components will not provide a solution.

Therefore XXXXXXXXX BMW will be unable to carry out any further work to attempt to rectify your concern on a warranty basis until otherwise advised by BMW. "


So, I'm feeling a little left in the dark, is this an admission of a problem with the design of the bike???
I guess it back to trying new tyres (when ready for them), and paying particular attention to the balancing.

Chris
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post #36 of 46 Old Jun 26th, 2007, 5:37 am
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Chris,


That is all it took to get rid of mine. The first replacement tire did not work as it was slightly out of round. After that one wore out the next replacement was better and the wobble is now gone.

I have to concur with your dealer, if there was an endemic cause the shake would always be there on every bike and it would not come and go with tires as many have experienced.

John
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2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
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Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #37 of 46 Old Jun 26th, 2007, 11:56 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
Chris,


That is all it took to get rid of mine. The first replacement tire did not work as it was slightly out of round. After that one wore out the next replacement was better and the wobble is now gone.

I have to concur with your dealer, if there was an endemic cause the shake would always be there on every bike and it would not come and go with tires as many have experienced.
We need to put this thing to rest once and for all:

IT'S THE TIRES!

Can we post something in the Hall of Wisdom that we can point to every time the question comes up? There's no need for a thread on this topic to go more than 2-3 replys.

As others have attested, my wobble incidence has come and gone with the changing of tires, mostly the front tire.

Currently, my bike wobbles with the Metzelers I installed last November (BTW, I hate them for other reasons).

I've had only one front Bridgestone that caused wobble, but after wearing/cupping. The wobble went away with a fresh replacement BT020. Consequently, that tire never introduced wobble during it's entire 7K mile life. This pair Metzelers (my first, and hopefully last) was worst when new and the wobble has actually lessened as the tires have worn. I'll be trying Avons next when these elephant skins wear out (if I can wait that long).

Face it, it's a crapshoot. We're at the mercy of the tire maker's QA tolerance range for tire trueness and roundness. This bike is just very sensitive to that particular dynamic variable.

-----------------------------------------

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post #38 of 46 Old Jun 26th, 2007, 7:09 pm
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I agree but I think this is just like the oil threads... Oh No another WOBBLE thread....

John
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2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #39 of 46 Old Jun 27th, 2007, 11:23 am
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I am sorry the explain and make the cause reason by TIRES.
We are use the OEM equipment which means recommend by OEM.
If the tyre is main cause why they use it.
It also should be put in the hand book to recommend which brand and grade can be use and not suggestion.
ME and BS both I have experience this wobble status and there is no response from BMW and yes maybe it cause by tyre but why BMW still hesitate to response this kind of doubt of owner that in this kind of thread repeat here?
They want keep the secret by themself?
The official agency been asking and request but no response.(As I know they put on the intra-discussion area for three weeks at least up-to-date)
The main cause concern is no body can be sure she will be fine and steady when some emergency require and she goes right way and maintenance the confidence to handle. I don't think anybody want ride on a unexpected?
We choice BMW for safety not worry. Do we?
I hope BMW can be solve our concern or make the right recommend if it cause by TIRES.
Sorry that I am very lost my patient for MY LT so much problem include poor service quality of my dealer done to my LT.
I still love my LT but I don't want have any safety concern when I ride it.
This is reason why I stick on this thread.
I don't want lost focus from OEM design(maybe) to tyre factory.
If it is cause by TYRE that BMW have responsibility make it clear,
BMW BMW I am expect you can show up to have official solution.

Last edited by KHLT; Jun 27th, 2007 at 11:39 am. Reason: Miss type
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post #40 of 46 Old Jun 27th, 2007, 11:39 am
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Hey Arthur (or do I call you Lin, wanna be polite), I feel for ya, man, and I understand your frustration. BUT, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for BMW. My advice is just to fix it yourself and enjoy the ride.



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post #41 of 46 Old Jun 27th, 2007, 11:47 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
Hey Arthur (or do I call you Lin, wanna be polite), I feel for ya, man, and I understand your frustration. BUT, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for BMW. My advice is just to fix it yourself and enjoy the ride.
Thanks, Arthur is good enough.
I will still try to change my parts to upgrade.
With OEM I understand they have cost concern that make they don't use the highest parts but it is expensive already.
But if it is original design problem or we say defect it should be solve as a responsible maker? Do them.
I change tyre, spring, spacer distance, re-measure the length fork, oil amount, triangle set. re-assemble the front part...
I think be a responsible manufactory should be face it instead of forget it and no response event put it to cause of tyre!
I am enjoy riding it and of course it make me very caution when I on it.
Thanks, with regards,
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post #42 of 46 Old Jun 27th, 2007, 11:52 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cws
.....call it what you will.

I received an "official" response from my BMW dealer this morning regarding the effect, as follows:

Quote: "I have made some enquiries over the last couple of weeks regarding your steering wobble.

I have been officially advised by way of a Technical report from the factory that the steering wobble you are experiencing is a characteristic attributed to the suspension geometry of the Motorcycle and any replacement of suspension components will not provide a solution.

Therefore XXXXXXXXX BMW will be unable to carry out any further work to attempt to rectify your concern on a warranty basis until otherwise advised by BMW. "


So, I'm feeling a little left in the dark, is this an admission of a problem with the design of the bike???
I guess it back to trying new tyres (when ready for them), and paying particular attention to the balancing.
Hi Chris,
I am sorry to hear you got this kind of response.
I call to agency here and they told me they are still waiting the answer.
They made lot of effort on it and make me hesitate to blame and push them too hard.(Which not satisfy)
They also want to make up my glove box lid can't open problem---NEW rreplacement (Not sure by quality or my poor dealer stupid work process service with paid to damage)
But I will stick make my call every week.
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post #43 of 46 Old Jun 27th, 2007, 11:58 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
Chris,


That is all it took to get rid of mine. The first replacement tire did not work as it was slightly out of round. After that one wore out the next replacement was better and the wobble is now gone.

I have to concur with your dealer, if there was an endemic cause the shake would always be there on every bike and it would not come and go with tires as many have experienced.
Hi John,
My agency told me that they been try their new 07 LT and it is there!
Do you have any suggestion for tire brand or need to notice?
It will be help to try but ..
I have got suggestion that try ML pilotroad II.
Did anybody been experience?
Appreciate your experience input.
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post #44 of 46 Old Jun 27th, 2007, 12:13 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle
I never noticed any head shake on the new LT, but it was probably there, only so mild that I never would have noticed it unless I took my hands off the bars while decelerating around 40MPH which isn't something I do everyday. Now on the LT I just make sure I never do it. On the GS, no problem.

Later though as previously mentioned my LT head shake had become very obtrusive, but after replacing the lower ball joint it was again still somewhat there, but only very mild and only present when taking my hands off of the bars. I wish that it wasn't there at all, but at this point I am happy to just have the big bike feeling stable again and not like I'm about to throw a tire. I have chalked this up for now as a quirk about the bike that I have learned to work around and accept so long as it isn't feeling too obtrusive or dangerous.

Sorry you're still having an issue with this. Did you notice any improvement at all? What kind and how old are your tires? What is the tire pressure of the front and back? If they say it's in the new bikes too, have you test driven a new bike to compare how a new bike feels versus yours?

On a side note, several people have found this front end shake feature in several other bike models and manufacturers other than the BMW LT, especially with the larger bikes. Obviously there is something inherent in the design that makes the LT susceptible to this quirk. I wish BMW would put some engineers on top of this issue to find a complete resolution, but I suspect that they know it's going to cost them money in recalls if they do that. In addition they're getting ready to roll out the replacement to the LT and I get the impression that their desire is to ignore this design flaw in their flagship bike in the hopes that we will too.

As I mentioned, mine isn't so bad anymore, but I wish it weren't there at all. I didn't realize that it was a part of the bikes nature when I bought it and felt like full disclosure was never given about this issue. When a friend test drove a 2003 LT at a dealership while looking for a bike for him and his wife, I never said anything thinking it was just my bike. Well the LT he test drove happened to have the same bad shake issue. He rides mainly GS's and it really freaked him out and he was in disbelief that this flagship 7 series like bike could have such a flaw and he thought it felt unsafe and I was actually rather embarrassed at the time. I felt like someone had recognized a flaw in my girlfriend or something.

One thing I have noticed about this big sport tourer is that there aren't very many tires that are rated for this heavy of a bike and I wonder if a solution could be in designing a better tire. I would like to see a tire manufacturer engineer a quality set of tires around the LT specifically, or at least sized for a bike this big. As long as I've followed the tire threads, almost all the reviews have come across as hit or miss. After 8K miles I still have the same Metz 880's that came with my bike and they still have plenty of tread but they don't work for everyone. Since the LT is so susceptible to the slightest changes in the tire wear/balance/pressure, I wonder if something better suited couldn't be designed. Either that or it's in the frame somewhere. Just a thought. Other options could be to check with a custom bike builder to get their input on these kinds of issues. If it turns out to be something that is capable of being fixed in the design of the bike then we as a community could consider getting legal council to force BMW's hand and getting a recall started. It has certainly been done with many manufacturers in the past and I doubt BMW would want the negative publicity. In fact, putting some legal pressure on them regarding a safety issue may just get them to get off their butts and find a fix to this flaw.But from the other perspective, since this really only becomes an issue for most people when they have one or both hands off of the bars which is illegal, I'm not sure if there really is much of a case.

Anyway, sorry for the book. Just typed as I thought about it. When are you experiencing this issue and how prevalent is it while you're riding?
Hi Darren,
Thanks for your positive suggestion.
Next I am consider to change the damper to OL or HP.
Tire to ML pilotroad II.
As here LT rider is no so much to make pressure because we just open the market for 5 yrs?? and every month 2 LT import.(It means no much owner to make loud noise for BMW.)
Most of owner put their LT as a treasure in their garage instead ride it on the road so their milage is not go much. (some of them ride it 3Km/year)
The age of owner are high in average compare to other brand owner and they don't treat her as high performance machine.
It is reason I am try to search here and want have your experience to short the learning curve and prevent wast the money as it is treasure for us to enjoy our LT.
Appreciated all your comment..
I will think about to have some action with BMW.

Last edited by KHLT; Jun 27th, 2007 at 12:18 pm. Reason: miss type
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post #45 of 46 Old Jun 27th, 2007, 12:24 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David246
I have a o6 lt I replaced the steering damper with a hyperpro and it did not help replaced the tires with avon storms and ballanced them my shelf wobble gone competely
They said OL damper with 6 adjustable and hyperpro also with good performance too but it will be no big difference with wobble only slight improvement will be.
Avon storms is not find here.
The balance is must when change tire here.
Even they need to check the real round degree of tire.
Thanks.
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post #46 of 46 Old Jul 9th, 2007, 9:28 am
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Thumbs down

I call to my agency today to check if there is any response from BMW.
The answer is no answer.
When I told him that I am consider some act and got answer as---
In the operation manual they are request need both hand on the bar all the time.
They said it was request on the manual already which hand off was not allow!!
I can not image what they are talking about!
It is a safety concern and we are request for solve the root cause but it seem BMW want to escape its design defect?
It is very disappoint me for the BMW and his agency response.
That my agency request my LT stay there for them to have detail inspection.
When I get it back and all defect is still there!
I don't know how to said it!??!!!
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