Fraud and Deceit - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 74 Old Feb 21st, 2007, 8:03 pm Thread Starter
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Fraud and Deceit

To All Members and LT Owners:
I have been very reluctant to write this article and have attempted to get this worked out here in the Philippines and also with BMW Motorrad in Germany. To date no one has offered a solution.
On January 20, 2007 My K1200 LT caught fire and was completely destroyed. BMW Philippines has stated that since the cause of the fire cannot be determined they are claiming no responsibility. The insurance company is saying that the bike is under warranty and that it is the responsibility of BMW to replace it. In the mean time I am the one without a motorcycle.
My LT was purchased on February 11, 2005. It has never run very good and during the almost two years and approximately 18,000 KM BMW Philippines two dealerships has attempted to fix it. About three weeks prior to the fire BMW finally replaced the electronic control module. Almost immediately I reported that I smelt raw gas. Their response to me were two comments, Are you seeing any puddles? My answer was no. Their next comment to me was to ride the bike because BMW Germany wanted to get all the old stuff from the engine.
On the day of the fire it was a beautiful morning and around 11:00AM I decided to take a ride. When I left the house I had no destination in mind. As I got on the expressway and headed south I noticed that the temperature of the bike was going to the high side and the cooling fans would come on and it would drop back to normal again. In the past the temperature would always rise while riding in slow environments but it had never risen at highway speeds. AS I headed south I decided that I would go to the beach resort in Ternate Cavite and have lunch at the beach resort. I arrived at Puerto Azul and decided to view the area before lunch. I rode all the way through the area, turned around and decided it was time for lunch. I passed the rode that I was suppose to turn on and found myself going back up the hill in the direction I had originally come from. The road has an uphill grade and the bike started to act as if it was loosing power. About halfway up the grade I started to smell gasoline again. That is also the time in which I smelled something burning. I pulled to side of the road, opened the side compartment, and pulled the seat knob. When I opened the seat the engine was already on fire. I attempted to put the fire out with a towel I kept in the back but to no avail. When the towel caught fire I was afraid the bike was going to explode so I ran away from the bike. A family was driving by and gave me a ride back to the Beach Resort. I asked that they call police and fire department and headed back to the bike. When I arrived back to the bikes location there was nothing left.
The information I have written above was bad enough but the story gets worse. After the fire I have been searching and reviewing information from the LT website about gas leaks and LT's that have been destroyed. During my investigation I found the BMW VIN Coder page. I plugged the VIN number from my 2005 BMW K1200 LT and discover that it was manufactured in 2003/02. Everything about the motorcycle says it is a 2005 model except the VIN De Coder information. I was sold a 2005 model, it is registered as a 2005 but it is actually a 2003 model. The fact that I was sold a two year old motorcycle explains why the tires were worn out in only 7,000 KM. I replaced the tires, at my expense because BMW Philippines refused to replace them under warranty. The battery was also replaced during the first three months of having the bike. In my opinion the tires were dry rotted from sitting and the battery was just old. The stories on this motorcycle are numerous and this story could continue however I think I have said enough.
Before discovering that BMW had created fraud I had told BMW Philippines and BMW Germany that all I wanted was to have my motorcycle replaced. The President of BMW Philippines, Dr. Joerg Breuer asked me why I wanted the bike replaced, given all the problems I have had. My comment back to his question was the following: Even with your bad service BMW Philippines is the only Motorcycle dealer who has service. If I replaced my motorcycle with a Honda Goldwing there is no one to service it.
I had given BMW Philippines and BMW Germany until the close of the business day, Wednesday February 21, 2007, to respond and make an amicable agreement. That deadline has passed and as of 6:00PM I have instructed my attorney to proceed with a lawsuit.
I truly hope that no one else has to ever go through this ordeal. If someone had told me two years ago that BMW workmanship on their motorcycle was like this, I would not have bought one in the first place. I truly loved my motorcycle and miss it very much. For almost two years I prayed that each time it was being repaired would be the last time. That prayer was never answered.
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post #2 of 74 Old Feb 21st, 2007, 10:24 pm
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Yep, Lawer time...

Sounds to me like someone screwed up when replacing the control module.
Could have been a quick disconnect...but sounds like you definately had a gas leak....Not good, and since you reported it immediately after the bike was serviced the dealer should have been more anxious to take care of it...

With the VIN number weirdness and all that I'm wondering if you didn't have a stolen/retitled bike..
Someone put an older vin number on a newer stolen bike to get it titled...

You purchased it from the dealer correct ?

Was it a new bike or was it used when you purchased it ?

Please keep us informed on this...Your Lawyer will get someone to pay, It's between the dealership and the insurance company so let them fight it out....

Good Luck..

John

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post #3 of 74 Old Feb 21st, 2007, 11:00 pm Thread Starter
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John:
The bike was purchased on February 11, 2005. It was sold to me as a new 2005 K1200 LT. It was registered here in the Philippines as a new 2005 model. It had 7 KM showing on the odometer when I received it.
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post #4 of 74 Old Feb 22nd, 2007, 1:17 am
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I'd be hard pressed to use that dealership for service.
I'd go with the Honda and an independent mechanic.

Hello 07 R1200S
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post #5 of 74 Old Feb 22nd, 2007, 1:30 am Thread Starter
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I have wished for the past years that there was somewhere else to go for service. Honda does not service any big bikes, not even their own. Had some other mechanic worked on the bike the warranty would be have been voided
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post #6 of 74 Old Feb 22nd, 2007, 1:37 am
 
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Having lived in the Philippines a cumulative five years I am not the least bit surprised regarding the VIN fraud and you can count on the bike having been stolen somewhere. Even with a vehicle imported legally and duties paid (which no one does) you still must payoff 4-5 separate government reps. to register the thing. It was most likely off-loaded in one of the southern islands and moved to Manila via inter-island ferry for modification/documentation.

Inadvertent poor service work can be encountered anywhere, but in the Philippines I would have my doubts (convictions) about whether they even replaced the parts they said they did - especially since you didn't see the parts that came off the bike. If you still have custody this could be something to check as I believe major components have serial numbers which can be tied to a VIN. Also, I have never heard of a Philippine insurance company paying off any claim unless the underwriter is an international.

No help at all I know but hopefully the lawyer can do something (if he is connected). I think your best hope is to continue to hammer BMW AG Germany since they are ultimately responsible for authorized dealers. If you don't get anywhere you'll still have the Filipinas and beaches.

Wish you the best of luck.

Steve
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post #7 of 74 Old Feb 22nd, 2007, 7:33 am
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Not to be morbid here... I wonder if you could post better pics of the fire. It can serve as a good reminder for us to do "due diligence" in our own "self-service" routines.

Best wishes for a "new day" to dawn for you... and BMW.

...............
J.M.J...
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post #8 of 74 Old Feb 22nd, 2007, 8:18 am
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I know this does not help anything but just to get the picture clear for myself and maybe some others...

As we all know (and you should also know by now even if you did not when buying the bike) that a new bike in Feb 05 would have been the "new model" LT with dual lights, electric centerstand, different dash etc.
If your bike was actually manufactured in Feb 03, it obviously did not have these new model features- or am I wrong?

My ´05 (as the Americans call it, I call mine ´04 model) was manufactured in Dec 2003 and I bought the bike in February 04. I have understood that this is one of the earliest new model bikes.

If your bike really was the new model, but the VIN code referred to older bike then again something smells bad.

I wish you all the luck with your fight and let's hope things turn out Ok after all.

Regards

Ari "the Farkle-Freak-Finn" Ignatius

Hyvinkää, Finland
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post #9 of 74 Old Feb 22nd, 2007, 10:00 am
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According to AsiaoneMotoring "In the Philippines, BMW Group commanded a 53 per cent market share of the relatively small premium segment, with only 803 units"
This is a tenuous business. One that they wouldn't want to jeopardise with bad publicity
I would strongly suggest a well worded press release. First sent to the retailer for comment and then the newspapers if the comment doesn't include a refund!

"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" Mark Twain


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post #10 of 74 Old Feb 22nd, 2007, 5:25 pm Thread Starter
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For those of you that have replied to this thread, I Thank You. I will see if I can post some better pictures. The response about the differences between a 2003 verses a 2005 was good and I wish at the time I had known this. Regardless of my ignorence, the dealer should have told me what I was buying.
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post #11 of 74 Old Feb 22nd, 2007, 5:58 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokee123
For those of you that have replied to this thread, I Thank You. I will see if I can post some better pictures. The response about the differences between a 2003 verses a 2005 was good and I wish at the time I had known this. Regardless of my ignorence, the dealer should have told me what I was buying.
So was your bike a "new" LT with the power center stand and separate high/low beam or the older LT??

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post #12 of 74 Old Feb 22nd, 2007, 7:44 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedhudson
So was your bike a "new" LT with the power center stand and separate high/low beam or the older LT??
My guess is older, because here Bill thought he had a 2004:
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthre...45215#poststop

Ted

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post #13 of 74 Old Feb 22nd, 2007, 8:55 pm
 
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Boy, this story just has me shaking my head. Sorry for your misfortune, and I really hope things work out for you, but are things so screwed up in the Phillipines that the titling agencies don't get their sirens set off by a bad vin? Or, how about your riding group, didn't anybody say "hey, what's up with the dash and centerstand"?
This is a bizarre story for sure.
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post #14 of 74 Old Feb 22nd, 2007, 8:58 pm
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Good luck Bill, sounds like you're in for a long fight.
I recently "decoded" my Sept '05 purchase to find it was an 04/2004 build date, but it does have dual lights/electric centre stand.
So it seems like a bike sitting around for 18 months isn't out of the ordinary.
Please post the larger image, it aint every day we see a melted beemer...

Chris
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post #15 of 74 Old Feb 22nd, 2007, 9:39 pm
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Good luck with your legal fight, Bill.

Can you share a link to the VIN decoder site?

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post #16 of 74 Old Feb 22nd, 2007, 10:08 pm
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vin decoder

Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
Can you share a link to the VIN decoder site?
http://www.bmwarchiv.de/vin/bmw-vin-decoder-set.html
In german, but its pretty straight forward, use Bablefish to translate...
tells the build date of the bike from the last 7 digits of the VIN.

Chris
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post #17 of 74 Old Feb 22nd, 2007, 10:28 pm Thread Starter
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There was only one LT in the Philippines when I bought the bike so I did not know the difference. A few months later BMW brought a second unit in and it was bought by a friend of mine. Yes he had the center stand and there were a few differences in the two bikes. I had cruise control and he did not, I had heated grips and he did not. My fault, but I honestly did not know the difference. The dealership was representing it as a 2005. The price that we both paid was very close to the same amount. As requested, I have attached some pictures that were taken the day of the incident.

Regards to All
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post #18 of 74 Old Feb 22nd, 2007, 10:38 pm
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Wow, thats really sad, Bill. Feel for you deeply.
Hope they (BMW) come to the party without too much more heartache over it. Keep us up to date!

Chris
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post #19 of 74 Old Feb 22nd, 2007, 10:41 pm
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Does the paperwork regarding the purchase represent the bike as a new '05? Or, did the dealer tell you it was an '05 but recorded it on the sale paperwork as a used '0x? Looking at your pics, looks like the standard spring-loaded center stand.

I don't envy your position, and I wish you all of the best in getting the responsible party to stand up and do what is right.

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post #20 of 74 Old Feb 22nd, 2007, 10:53 pm
 
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Really sorry to hear about your situation.
Is that a siren on the left side? I think in the US, there are special circumstances when buying used vehicles from govt agencies, such as odometer disclosure and all that legal stuff. Was it a Polizei edition?
I wonder if they outright lied about the vehicle history to you??
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post #21 of 74 Old Feb 22nd, 2007, 10:57 pm Thread Starter
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It is a siren and the bike also was equipped with Police Lights. The siren and lights were add ons. I am an authorized LTO Deputy here in the Philippines.
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post #22 of 74 Old Feb 22nd, 2007, 11:01 pm
 
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I see - well then, my thoughts are a non-issue. I bet that was a pretty sweet looking LT!! It really sucks to see it like that. I hope everything works out in your favor (as it should).
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post #23 of 74 Old Feb 22nd, 2007, 11:06 pm
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sure looks like an 04...no powered center stand....


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post #24 of 74 Old Feb 22nd, 2007, 11:45 pm Thread Starter
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It did not have a center stand. That was the one big difference between the two bikes but I never questioned BMW
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post #25 of 74 Old Feb 22nd, 2007, 11:54 pm
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wow bud, sounds like a lawyer will have plenty of ammo to blacken the eyes of BMW with...


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post #26 of 74 Old Feb 23rd, 2007, 7:03 am
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Bill,
I was going to send you a private message but saw that I could not insert an attachment. I am sorry to hear about your LT. They are fine bikes when they are running. I am lucky in that I have a 2000 LT that does not have the fuel disconnects.

Not to change the subject on this, but,

Now for a question or favor. Do you have access to the bike? If at all possible I am trying not to buy a complete windshield assembly from BMW. They do not sell this individual piece that broke on my LT. I am attaching a picture of the short piece of bracket that I need. It is the top pivot arm. The piece is held on by three "C" clips (from what I can see). Either side of the top pieces will work. I would appreciate anything that you can do. Of course I can/will pay you for the piece. If this works out, you can mail/drop it at the American Embassy in Manila. I have some contacts there (unless you want to mail it directly to the States).
I will be gone most of today and will check my email later.

Thank you!
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post #27 of 74 Old Feb 23rd, 2007, 11:17 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokee123
It did not have a center stand. That was the one big difference between the two bikes but I never questioned BMW
Not to belabor this, but are you saying you had NO centerstand whatsoever, or that the one you had was manual and not a powered one operated by a button just inboard of the throttle? Moreover, if your friend with the other LT had a non-powered manual centerstand, then I'm suspecting (especially with no cruise and no heated grips) he got a good shellacing too.

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post #28 of 74 Old Feb 23rd, 2007, 12:46 pm
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Horrible

Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokee123
There was only one LT in the Philippines when I bought the bike so I did not know the difference. A few months later BMW brought a second unit in and it was bought by a friend of mine. Yes he had the center stand and there were a few differences in the two bikes. I had cruise control and he did not, I had heated grips and he did not. My fault, but I honestly did not know the difference. The dealership was representing it as a 2005. The price that we both paid was very close to the same amount. As requested, I have attached some pictures that were taken the day of the incident.

Regards to All

Bill,

I can't adequately express my sympathy to your situation. You have the truth on your side, so, I'm confident you'll prevail.

Looking at the pictures reminded me of the old horror video "Faces of Death".

I hope to never see another set of pictures like that again.

Best of Luck,

Joe
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post #29 of 74 Old Feb 23rd, 2007, 12:50 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger6
Not to belabor this, but are you saying you had NO centerstand whatsoever, or that the one you had was manual and not a powered one operated by a button just inboard of the throttle? Moreover, if your friend with the other LT had a non-powered manual centerstand, then I'm suspecting (especially with no cruise and no heated grips) he got a good shellacing too.
The pictures clearly show the manual center stand...

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post #30 of 74 Old Feb 23rd, 2007, 12:51 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokee123
It is a siren and the bike also was equipped with Police Lights. The siren and lights were add ons. I am an authorized LTO Deputy here in the Philippines.
Is there any possibility that the after market items contributed to the fire?

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post #31 of 74 Old Feb 23rd, 2007, 1:30 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedhudson
Is there any possibility that the after market items contributed to the fire?
You can bet BMW will try to make that case, pathetic as it is.

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post #32 of 74 Old Feb 23rd, 2007, 2:10 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bibleman
You can bet BMW will try to make that case, pathetic as it is.
Why is it pathetic? Do you have any information that the rest of us are not privy to??? It is certainly likely IMHO that there was a problem with the bike itself, but there are also other possibilities. Unfortunately he is going to have a long fight to prove that and is with out a bike

Best of luck and here's hoping for a positive outcome...

__________
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post #33 of 74 Old Feb 23rd, 2007, 2:49 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokee123
To All Members and LT Owners:
I have been very reluctant to write this article and have attempted to get this worked out here in the Philippines and also with BMW Motorrad in Germany. To date no one has offered a solution.
On January 20, 2007 My K1200 LT caught fire and was completely destroyed. BMW Philippines has stated that since the cause of the fire cannot be determined they are claiming no responsibility. The insurance company is saying that the bike is under warranty and that it is the responsibility of BMW to replace it. In the mean time I am the one without a motorcycle.
My LT was purchased on February 11, 2005. It has never run very good and during the almost two years and approximately 18,000 KM BMW Philippines two dealerships has attempted to fix it. About three weeks prior to the fire BMW finally replaced the electronic control module. Almost immediately I reported that I smelt raw gas. Their response to me were two comments, Are you seeing any puddles? My answer was no. Their next comment to me was to ride the bike because BMW Germany wanted to get all the old stuff from the engine.
On the day of the fire it was a beautiful morning and around 11:00AM I decided to take a ride. When I left the house I had no destination in mind. As I got on the expressway and headed south I noticed that the temperature of the bike was going to the high side and the cooling fans would come on and it would drop back to normal again. In the past the temperature would always rise while riding in slow environments but it had never risen at highway speeds. AS I headed south I decided that I would go to the beach resort in Ternate Cavite and have lunch at the beach resort. I arrived at Puerto Azul and decided to view the area before lunch. I rode all the way through the area, turned around and decided it was time for lunch. I passed the rode that I was suppose to turn on and found myself going back up the hill in the direction I had originally come from. The road has an uphill grade and the bike started to act as if it was loosing power. About halfway up the grade I started to smell gasoline again. That is also the time in which I smelled something burning. I pulled to side of the road, opened the side compartment, and pulled the seat knob. When I opened the seat the engine was already on fire. I attempted to put the fire out with a towel I kept in the back but to no avail. When the towel caught fire I was afraid the bike was going to explode so I ran away from the bike. A family was driving by and gave me a ride back to the Beach Resort. I asked that they call police and fire department and headed back to the bike. When I arrived back to the bikes location there was nothing left.
The information I have written above was bad enough but the story gets worse. After the fire I have been searching and reviewing information from the LT website about gas leaks and LT's that have been destroyed. During my investigation I found the BMW VIN Coder page. I plugged the VIN number from my 2005 BMW K1200 LT and discover that it was manufactured in 2003/02. Everything about the motorcycle says it is a 2005 model except the VIN De Coder information. I was sold a 2005 model, it is registered as a 2005 but it is actually a 2003 model. The fact that I was sold a two year old motorcycle explains why the tires were worn out in only 7,000 KM. I replaced the tires, at my expense because BMW Philippines refused to replace them under warranty. The battery was also replaced during the first three months of having the bike. In my opinion the tires were dry rotted from sitting and the battery was just old. The stories on this motorcycle are numerous and this story could continue however I think I have said enough.
Before discovering that BMW had created fraud I had told BMW Philippines and BMW Germany that all I wanted was to have my motorcycle replaced. The President of BMW Philippines, Dr. Joerg Breuer asked me why I wanted the bike replaced, given all the problems I have had. My comment back to his question was the following: Even with your bad service BMW Philippines is the only Motorcycle dealer who has service. If I replaced my motorcycle with a Honda Goldwing there is no one to service it.
I had given BMW Philippines and BMW Germany until the close of the business day, Wednesday February 21, 2007, to respond and make an amicable agreement. That deadline has passed and as of 6:00PM I have instructed my attorney to proceed with a lawsuit.
I truly hope that no one else has to ever go through this ordeal. If someone had told me two years ago that BMW workmanship on their motorcycle was like this, I would not have bought one in the first place. I truly loved my motorcycle and miss it very much. For almost two years I prayed that each time it was being repaired would be the last time. That prayer was never answered.
You reported the smell of fuel. They said keep riding. End of story. Good luck and keep us informed. Perhaps your legal man should file against the dealer where you were given this bad advice. Fuel vapors cause fire all day long. All they need is a spark or enough heat, blamo! Driving with fuel vapors is like playing Russian Roulette. Separately, the VIN VS date of production and Bill of Sale may be grounds for another action against the dealership. IMHO, they should either cough up your money or give you a credit on a new bike.

Good luck.

Keep us informed please. I have pals in BMW Munich. I will keep them informed of your progress.

Rob Nelson

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More than 132,000 (recently corrected higher) motorcycle riders have died in traffic crashes since the enactment of the Highway Safety Act of 1966 and The National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966. Be careful out there.
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post #34 of 74 Old Feb 23rd, 2007, 3:21 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedhudson
The pictures clearly show the manual center stand...
You're right...didn't look closely enough at that last pic.

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post #35 of 74 Old Feb 23rd, 2007, 7:10 pm
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Quote:
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Why is it pathetic? Do you have any information that the rest of us are not privy to??? It is certainly likely IMHO that there was a problem with the bike itself, but there are also other possibilities. Unfortunately he is going to have a long fight to prove that and is with out a bike

Best of luck and here's hoping for a positive outcome...
It is pathetic because there is no direct evidence that the add-ons caused the issue. There is, however, direct evidence about the potential of a fuel issue - and in fact, he reported that to his dealer.

Thusly, if BMW (either Corporate or the dealer) attempts to pin this back on him without direct evidence, to my mind pathetic doesn't even cover it.

What I didn't call pathetic, but could easily have, is an authorized dealer selling him a bike without a power centerstand and telling him it was a new '05. Should the buyer have known? Those of us who are enthusiasts might think so. But the dealer HAD to know.

Something's rotten.

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post #36 of 74 Old Feb 23rd, 2007, 7:11 pm Thread Starter
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Update

Last night I received a call from BMW Philippines and an a email from Germany. They informed me that they had reached a decision and would be delivering a new K1200 GT to my residence for me to ride until this case is settled. This is the closest bike to an LT that they have in stock. I figure I still have a ways to go and a lot of issues to settle.I will be glad when it is all over.

For all the comments that I have received about this incident, I Thank All of You.

To respond to a few of the last comments: 1. The after market equipment that was added was installed by an authorized electrician. Each circuit was wired with its own relay and fuse. 2. The bike is with BMW Philippines and there is nothing left. 3. The fact that the gas smell was not evident on a continuous basis was the only reason I was riding. Gasoline is highly combustible and scares the s---t out of me.

Again let me thank all the members of this group and let me assure you that I will keep you posted. I will be riding another LT in the near future. Everyone stay safe, be careful and enjoy your rides.

Very Best Regards

Cherokee 123

The only American Indian in the Philippines
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post #37 of 74 Old Feb 23rd, 2007, 7:22 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokee123
I will be riding another LT in the near future.
Or... you may elect to stick with the GT once you tried it! Quite a few members on this site "downgraded" to the GT.
Glad to hear you will soon have a bike to ride!

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post #38 of 74 Old Feb 23rd, 2007, 7:55 pm
 
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Keep the GT if you can. Among other things the maintenance/repair costs are a lot less.

I had no hope that you would recover anything dealing in the Philippines and you were smart to bring in BMW AG. I still suspect the numbers for the major components (engine, ABS, computers/programs) will not match the VIN on file in Germany but it's moot if this is settled to your satisfaction.

With the GT you'll be able to open her up and get to Batangas in an hour, San Fernando, La Union in a couple of hours, Baguio in three, and Ilocos Norte in four or so. I'm envious.

Best regards and do keep this board up to date on what's happening.

Steve.
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post #39 of 74 Old Feb 23rd, 2007, 8:15 pm
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Keep the GT

That's what I'd do...

The GT is a sweet ride from my understanding...

I had to leave the dealership a couple of days ago because there was a very nice blue one there and they wanted to give me a test ride....


Good Luck.....

Let's see, A new GT verses a "new" LT. I think you'd come out ahead on this deal...


John

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post #40 of 74 Old Feb 23rd, 2007, 8:40 pm
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Cherokee, it's all over, man. When you ride the GT, you'll never look back.



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post #41 of 74 Old Feb 23rd, 2007, 9:11 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokee123
Last night I received a call from BMW Philippines and an a email from Germany. They informed me that they had reached a decision and would be delivering a new K1200 GT to my residence for me to ride until this case is settled.
Drag your feet.....

Ted

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post #42 of 74 Old Feb 23rd, 2007, 10:52 pm
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NEVER SETTLE!!!! That way you can keep the GT forever.


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post #43 of 74 Old Feb 24th, 2007, 8:43 pm
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Given your local dealership's previous complicity in what seems like a questionable transaction at best, I have to ask.....

Does your loaner K1200GT have a flying brick (laydown cylinders) motor, or a transferse, inline 4?

I have been to Manila twice since this past September - only saw one "big" BMW during either trip - an R1200GS blew past a van I was riding in on the way back to Manila from Tagaytay.
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post #44 of 74 Old Feb 24th, 2007, 9:53 pm Thread Starter
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I honestly do not know about the GT as of yet. I have seen it one time about a month ago at the dealership. There are over 200 members with BMW (BOSS)club. Most are in the 1150 and 1200 range. There was only two of the LT's and I think the GT they will be delivering is the only one in the Philippines
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post #45 of 74 Old Feb 24th, 2007, 10:29 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
Cherokee, it's all over, man. When you ride the GT, you'll never look back.

Grif is spot on with this one. On this site alone we have seen many members talking about just taking a "test ride" and then their LTs show up in the classifieds forum.
If this process repeats as it in the past then their is a GT in your future.

Good luck.
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post #46 of 74 Old Feb 25th, 2007, 8:05 am
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Quote:
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Cherokee, it's all over, man. When you ride the GT, you'll never look back.
Cherokee, the Grifmiester is right. That GT (once you inspect it VERY CAREFULLY, of course) might be your settlement!

Best wishes on a satisfactory solution. BTW, I can't stop looking at those pic's that you posted! It's like death and destruction that just won't leave your mind......

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #47 of 74 Old Feb 25th, 2007, 12:16 pm
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If it were me , I would,nt be happy with anything else but another LT.
regards bikenumbnuts.
04 your 05 in graphite.
in blighty.
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post #48 of 74 Old Feb 25th, 2007, 12:53 pm
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I recently retired after a career in Sales and Marketing with a major automobile company. In the rare occasion that we would experience a fire from one of our vehicles, our legal and engineering staff were all over it to determine the cause. It amazes me that BMW Motorrad is not showing more interest in this situation.
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post #49 of 74 Old Feb 25th, 2007, 4:50 pm
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Coopjr, is that a bashing remark for Cliffs? I have not heard any harsh complaints about them. I am in westchester County and using them for service. ?????

Larry
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post #50 of 74 Old Feb 25th, 2007, 5:37 pm Thread Starter
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Unless the GT is really something impressive I will not be happy with anything less than a LT. Although it is a pain to ride in Manila traffic, it was a dream to ride on the open road. The pictures of the bike bring back very painful memories of that day. I just can't stop thinking about, what if this had happen at highways speeds. After the fire was completely out and had cooled down I took a close look at the remains. Even part of the frame was melted and there was nothing left that except the engine. What amazed me was that the siren cone did not melt. It is made of much lighter material than anything on the bike. I will keep everyone posted as things progress along. It is Monday morning here so the new week begins and who knows what it will bring.

Best Regards To All
Bill
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