Assembly system is amazing...... - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 22 Old Jan 19th, 2007, 9:23 pm Thread Starter
 
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Cool Assembly system is amazing......

For those of you who have gone deep enough under the "hood" of this LT beast, you can relate... For those who haven't, it's a journey waiting to happen.

I just took the evening to replace my air filter and will do the valve check in the morning. As I take this best apart further each time to go deeper, it amazes me how those German engineers were able to connect "this to that and that to this" using each and every fastener and metal/plastic component. There is truely a "method to the madness" as complicated as it is. I've never worked on a bike so complicated but laid out so systematically for better or worse.
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post #2 of 22 Old Jan 20th, 2007, 12:58 am
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The world of German engineering never ceases to amaze me (or piss me off sometimes)

Every new model we get from the factory there is a very painful learning process. But then it just "clicks" and suddenly everything makes sense as to why they do things a certain way. The trick is to learn the lesson before it costs you a "whoops" or an "oh, that's what that does" to the tune of a grand or two.

x2 2005 K1200LT, 1999 R1100S. All 3 sold. No bikes currently...
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post #3 of 22 Old Jan 20th, 2007, 1:59 am Thread Starter
 
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No doubt... I would not have the ba!!z to go as far as I have had it not been for this webboard forum. I have a decent amount of mechanical ability, but the support and technical guidance here make "decoding" the LT far more confidence inspiring.

Still no excuse for that whacky German engineering sense or no sense.
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post #4 of 22 Old Jan 20th, 2007, 3:36 am
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[QUOTE=hoodoodrum]For those of you who have gone deep enough under the "hood" of this LT beast, you can relate... For those who haven't, it's a journey waiting to happen.
***********
Having spent 20 years in Air Force jet fighter maintenance I thought the acft. manufactors had a monolopy on squeezing vital parts that had to be replaced into small hard to get to places, since removing the ABS valve on the LT I have come to the conclusion that BMW has them beat. They must have froze that sucker to get it into position.
Since the wreck in May last year where I stepped off it at 60 MPH and watched it bounce down the road then decided that I would do all the work myself to get it back like new or as close as I could, it has been a learning experience. I have a BMW shop manual for reference and you can believe me when I say that if the manual tells you to remove this to get to that or loosen this up and you see no reason for it you will somewhere in the proccess of removing or reinstalling have to do what the book tells you to do. No shortcuts have I found. Been fun looking for them tho.

Sonny
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post #5 of 22 Old Jan 20th, 2007, 7:25 am
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Speaking of German engineers.....

Why have the switch for the heated seat on the RIGHT underside? Even in Florida, we turn it on occasionally to get past the early morning cold. How do you turn it off while riding, or make an adjustment, without using the right/throttle hand? Occasionally I'll turn on the cruise control, but seems like an unsafe approach. Wonder what they were thinking, or am I not doing it correctly? Figure there must be a reason for the side they chose.

Dano
Tampa, Fl.

12 K1600 GTL
02 K1200 LT (gone but not forgotten)
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post #6 of 22 Old Jan 20th, 2007, 7:31 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dandiver
Why have the switch for the heated seat on the RIGHT underside? Even in Florida, we turn it on occasionally to get past the early morning cold. How do you turn it off while riding, or make an adjustment, without using the right/throttle hand? Occasionally I'll turn on the cruise control, but seems like an unsafe approach. Wonder what they were thinking, or am I not doing it correctly? Figure there must be a reason for the side they chose.
I thought about it everytime I used it. I think it's to promote stopping to use it, though that's gotta be nuts. Logic along those lines would include the grips. Even switch placement is goofy. At the start of a cool season you have to search for it.

It's on the handlebar's of the GT with an icon on the instrument panel telling you it's on and how high.



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post #7 of 22 Old Jan 20th, 2007, 7:34 am
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Good morning Dano. I never found the switch position to be an issue. It's either cold enough to turn it on when I start riding or now that I've got that position of the switch locked in, I can turn it off/on in less than 5 seconds. I don't find putting the bike in cruise to turn it on or off a big issue. Also, I guess is seemed like the place I would have put it.

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post #8 of 22 Old Jan 20th, 2007, 7:39 am
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Left side

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_R
Good morning Dano. I never found the switch position to be an issue. It's either cold enough to turn it on when I start riding or now that I've got that position of the switch locked in, I can turn it off/on in less than 5 seconds. I don't find putting the bike in cruise to turn it on or off a big issue. Also, I guess is seemed like the place I would have put it.
Seems if it was on the left side, and I can't see where it would cause a problem, it would be safer. I seem to only leave it on for about 5-10 minutes.

Oh well, not a big deal. Some would say, "a class problem!"

Dano
Tampa, Fl.

12 K1600 GTL
02 K1200 LT (gone but not forgotten)
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post #9 of 22 Old Jan 20th, 2007, 7:46 am
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One day I'm going to have to strip down the tupperware, and I'm dreading it. Mostly to get at the air filter, but I also want to cure some annoying rattles.

It may have something to do with the J-peg installation.....any input ?

2000 K1200LT
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post #10 of 22 Old Jan 20th, 2007, 9:11 am
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Heated Switch Placement

I think the heated seats switch placement might be a holdover from the manual centerstand days.

If given the option, I would probably redo some of the switch placement as well, and maybe combine some of them.

Cheers,

Adam
2006 K1200LT 2001 Kawi KLR650
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post #11 of 22 Old Jan 20th, 2007, 10:01 am Thread Starter
 
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Looked at the other part of the Sayegh DVD this morning to check out that infamous fuel filter. LOLOL... Upside down, inside out! At lease my R1150 R, I could take the entire tank off in under 15 minutes, but then again the DAMMM thing was up in the tank frame tunnel. Always a learning experience!!!
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post #12 of 22 Old Jan 20th, 2007, 11:28 am
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BMW does a pretty good job on the bikes, but there are things on their cars which make you wonder what the hell they were thinking, or not.

{Rant mode on}

I had to replace the crank position sensor on my 525i, and the plug for it is under the intake manifold, can barely even see it without a mirror, much less get your hands on it. I had to jack the car up and unplug it from underneath. When it came time to put it back I had to get my son in law to watch from above with a good light and verbally guide me to get the plug in the right place and turned correctly to plug it back in. I could only get three fingers on it in that position, so it was a real witch to get plugged back in. They could have put the bracket 3 inches to the left, and it would have been easy from above! Plenty of room there. They very obviously did not care about anyone AFTER the car is assembled.

A couple weeks ago I had to replace the air/oil seperator on my 740iL. That is BMW's name for a very expensive ($113) over engineered, and failure prone PCV valve. It is mounted on the rear face of the intake manifold. To replace it I had to remove the injector rail, and intake manifold. The injector plugs have little wire clips on them to retain them on the injectors, and I had to use a dental mirror and little picks to get one end of each of the eight clips disengaged and pushed back enough so that the other end would also disengage it's little tang. The plugs are held in a wiring box on each head that is then pulled off the injectors and folded back out of the way. When I put the wiring boxes back, I tested without the wire clips reinstalled, and see there was no need for them in the first place. The box with plugs is pushed down on the injectors and clamped in place with two retaining nuts. I guess since the plugs come from the manufacturer with the clips on them, they just leave them there. I left them off, so if I ever have to remove them again it will be a couple minutes instead of the very frustrating nearly an HOUR it took me to get the damned clips released. I had a lot of names for the BMW engineers after that.

Of course while I had the intake off, I found a little coolant leak around the valley cover, between the cylinder banks. OK, I thought, a new gasket. OH NO, there is NO GASKET! There is a formed in place sealant on the aluminum casting, so you have to buy the whole thing, another $83! The surface of it is not flat, so I could not just use RTV sealant on it. It has a plastic cover on it, and after a few years of heat, it could not be snapped off without breaking the little ears that hold it on, so that was another $15.

{Rant mode off}

Oh well, the car runs better than ever now, and we REALLY like it, so I guess it was worth it.

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post #13 of 22 Old Jan 20th, 2007, 1:13 pm
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I guess my rant concerning German engineering is more basic than most, but I can not for the life of me figure out why anyone would design a regular maintenance item such as the oil filter to be fitted inside the engine. A spin-off oil filter could be placed anywhere on the bike, so why not inside the nose of the faring or some where else equally accessible?

If that is not puzzling enough, the oil pump is external to the engine and seperated from the water pump (on the same shaft) by a single seal. Why not put the oil pump inside the engine to avoid opportunity for leaks. I have not had a leak with the K1200 but did with a K1100 (same engine).

Even with the quirks I still like my LT...

Jamie
'02 K1200LTC
'82 R100RT
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post #14 of 22 Old Jan 20th, 2007, 2:46 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoodoodrum
For those of you who have gone deep enough under the "hood" of this LT beast, you can relate... For those who haven't, it's a journey waiting to happen.

I just took the evening to replace my air filter and will do the valve check in the morning. As I take this best apart further each time to go deeper, it amazes me how those German engineers were able to connect "this to that and that to this" using each and every fastener and metal/plastic component. There is truely a "method to the madness" as complicated as it is. I've never worked on a bike so complicated but laid out so systematically for better or worse.
The same goes for German cars (At least the ones I'm familiar with , never had a Beemer auto) ... I do most all my own work on my Benz and Porsche and I am constantly facinated and impressed at the genius of design and function.
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post #15 of 22 Old Jan 20th, 2007, 5:33 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K1200LTryder
One day I'm going to have to strip down the tupperware, and I'm dreading it. Mostly to get at the air filter, but I also want to cure some annoying rattles.

It may have something to do with the J-peg installation.....any input ?
At the very front of the bike, where the upper fairing meets the lower fairing is a beeg rattle point. Cut some velcro (the soft side) to size and place there.



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post #16 of 22 Old Jan 20th, 2007, 8:07 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by browad
I think the heated seats switch placement might be a holdover from the manual centerstand days.

If given the option, I would probably redo some of the switch placement as well, and maybe combine some of them.

Cheers,
I always assumed BMW put the seat heater switch near the seats, and the grip heater switch on the handlebars, to minimize wiring runs...

Howard Schisler
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post #17 of 22 Old Jan 20th, 2007, 9:28 pm
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Maybe it's on the right side because most Germans are right handed? I dunno. just a SWAG... I'm sure I'm wrong?

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post #18 of 22 Old Jan 20th, 2007, 11:18 pm
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Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfell
Maybe it's on the right side because most Germans are right handed? I dunno. just a SWAG... I'm sure I'm wrong?
Problem with it on the right side is that to turn it off, while riding, you need to take your right hand off of the throttle! Not too safe, in my opinion. Now we are back to either cruse control or a quick clutch, reach under, try to locate and then back to the throttle. Hmmmmmmm Maybe there is a German engineer who can explain the rational.

Dano
Tampa, Fl.

12 K1600 GTL
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post #19 of 22 Old Jan 21st, 2007, 1:10 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikebum
If that is not puzzling enough, the oil pump is external to the engine and seperated from the water pump (on the same shaft) by a single seal. Why not put the oil pump inside the engine to avoid opportunity for leaks.
During a particularly difficult repair on a Carrera GT we had to call an engineer because there was no repair info for what we were trying to do. When asked about why there was no info he told us, I kid you not, "we did not design that part to fail, so why would you need to know how to replace it?" How do you answer that?!?

It was a very funny insight into German design mentality.

And yes, you have to take the engine out to change the spark plugs...

http://www.bmwlt.com/gallery/files/8...reraGT0009.JPG"

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post #20 of 22 Old Jan 21st, 2007, 7:33 am
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Since the wreck in May last year where I stepped off it at 60 MPH and watched it bounce down the road......

Sonny,

Do tell. Sounds like a pretty nasty crash.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #21 of 22 Old Jan 21st, 2007, 10:46 am
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I don't understand the problem. I've never had the bike come to a halt nor has it fallen down just because I let go of the handle bars.

If traffic is too heavy to release the throttle and allow your hand to leave the close proximity of the front brake then you don't need the distraction of fiddling with switches, wherever they are.

Bob Chapman
Virginia
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post #22 of 22 Old Jan 21st, 2007, 5:42 pm
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Never said it was a problem -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob204bc
I don't understand the problem. I've never had the bike come to a halt nor has it fallen down just because I let go of the handle bars.

If traffic is too heavy to release the throttle and allow your hand to leave the close proximity of the front brake then you don't need the distraction of fiddling with switches, wherever they are.
Just pondering why, when there is a choice, why such an inconvenient location when on the other side, it would be so accessible? Ain't a big deal.

Dano
Tampa, Fl.

12 K1600 GTL
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