Starter not cranking - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 17 Old May 13th, 2020, 7:37 pm Thread Starter
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Unhappy Starter not cranking

I have a '99 K1200LT. The problem is the starter won't crank from the starter button. It was working and then just quit. I have checked the starter relay is getting a signal from the starter button. There is also power to the red wire to the relay. I know the starter is good because I pulled the cover off the Blue upgraded relay and can push the contacts together and the bike will start. The kick stand switch checks good, the neutral light comes on. I haven't been able to check the clutch switch yet. I bought a used blue starter relay but that was no help.

The old style relay was just a mechanical relay, correct? I never had one. I want to put a different mechanical relay in. Will it work with out messing with the Montonic unit? Which other wire is for the coil of the relay?

Any advice on fixing what I have or modifying like I described would be helpful.
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post #2 of 17 Old May 13th, 2020, 8:53 pm
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Re: Starter not cranking

Welcome to the forum.

If you have the new upgraded blue relay ( not standard on a 99) , it has a low voltage cut out that will prevent starter engagement with a low battery protecting the relay from fusing due to excessive current from the low voltage and slow turning starter which is pretty much a dead short. First thing I would do is check your battery is fully charged and provides over 11.5 preferably higher in the 12v + range with the key on not running. If it is lower than that, the bike will not crank. Replace the battery then, it is toast. If the battery remains over 12V and still does not crank, it is rare but the relay circuitry may be bad so you might have to replace it.

Some have put in the old style Ford fender relay to replace either type. Be careful where you mount something like that because the metal mounting bracket on those is often tied to one of the small posts for ground and single wire operation so it may matter which one you connect to for the actuating wire.
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mwnahas and beech like this.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Ė Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Ė Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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Last edited by bmwcoolk1200; May 13th, 2020 at 10:10 pm.
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post #3 of 17 Old May 14th, 2020, 12:45 am Thread Starter
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Re: Starter not cranking

I am hesitant to purchase a new blue relay after already getting one from a running bike.

The battery is brand new, an Odyssey PC680 AGM Battery. It is showing 13.4 volts. I plan to use a relay from a GoldWing, it should have sufficient capacity. It looks like I will use the two wires with the spade connectors for the coil. One is black/yellow the other is brown/blue. The third wire is brown and is a ground and not in the BMW wiring book I have so I an assuming it is part of the upgrade and is not needed.
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post #4 of 17 Old May 14th, 2020, 6:10 am
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Re: Starter not cranking

Did you accidentally bump the reverse lever. Just for the heck of it, turn the reverse button both ways to make sure it is in the correct position. This has been done a few times.

Mike Trevelino
Williamsburg, VA
2008 RT - Sold December 2019
2000 LT - Totaled at 99,960 miles


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post #5 of 17 Old May 14th, 2020, 3:00 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Starter not cranking

Not the reverse lever. It was in correct position. I tried to move it, the R light would come on and go off as it should. Funny thing is the reverse switch is not in the wiring diagrams.

Last edited by wingingit2; May 14th, 2020 at 3:08 pm.
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post #6 of 17 Old May 14th, 2020, 3:07 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Starter not cranking

I put in the mechanical relay and it didn't work. if I removed the brgnws wire and put a jumper to ground it will work. Of course none of the safeties would be there. So the problem seems to be in the neutral safety switch but the green light comes on and off with shifting.

I have the BMW wiring book but so many of the wire colors match the bike. And the reverse switch is missing from the diagram.

Does the Clymer or Haynes manuals have a traditional wiring diagram so I can see the complete circuit on one page?
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post #7 of 17 Old May 14th, 2020, 9:17 pm
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Re: Starter not cranking

The reverse switch only routes the starter button signal from the starter relay (F) to the reverser controller (R). This is from the BMW diagram.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 114 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #8 of 17 Old May 15th, 2020, 5:57 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Starter not cranking

Which is the Reverse Switch. S9092 is listed as a Neutral safety switch.
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post #9 of 17 Old May 15th, 2020, 6:03 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Starter not cranking

The wire colors are not what is in the bike, so I am still confused.
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post #10 of 17 Old May 15th, 2020, 9:55 pm
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Re: Starter not cranking

My bad the DVD covers all bikes from 1993 to 2006 I sent the K1100LT circuit. Here is the correct one in two parts for layout and a zoom for the wire colors. Sorry about that.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 114 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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Last edited by jzeiler; May 15th, 2020 at 10:03 pm.
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post #11 of 17 Old May 17th, 2020, 9:34 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Starter not cranking

I have been troubleshooting this bike for a week now and have found all the switches and relays working. Except for the BROG wire to the Reverse Control unit, I can't locate it.

Also I have noticed the headlight does not go off when pushing the starter button any more. That was working before all this started. I read the notes about the load relief relay but it didn't make much sense.

Like I said earlier if I ground the starter relay coil terminal where the BRGNSW wire should be it will start but the safeties are not working. It will start in gear.

Any other ideas?
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post #12 of 17 Old May 17th, 2020, 9:35 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Starter not cranking

Also, does the clutch need to pulled in to start in neutral?
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post #13 of 17 Old May 18th, 2020, 12:25 pm
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Re: Starter not cranking

The BROG is from the ECU to the Reverser controller signal is SR not sure what that is other than a check for a running engine? The load relief relay gets its ground though the starter motor so when you are cranking it sees 12 v instead of ground so it opens, cutting off those loads. No the clutch only needs to be pulled in for starting in gear, with the side stand up.

I think you should be applying 12 v to the BRGNSW to trigger the starter relay.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 114 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #14 of 17 Old May 18th, 2020, 6:09 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Starter not cranking

I am getting 12v to the SWGE (black yellow) when I push the starter button. The safeties I think are after the starter relay. The BRGNWS goes to the reverse/ Neutral safety switch switch and then to reverse controller and then to the "R" light on dash. It does light up. I do not seem to be getting a ground because when I switch the BRGNWS with a ground it will crank. But will start in gear.

Last edited by wingingit2; May 18th, 2020 at 9:22 pm.
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post #15 of 17 Old May 18th, 2020, 9:24 pm
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Re: Starter not cranking

In F that switch is closed to route what ever comes out of the reverser controller to the starter relay. In R that switch is open preventing the signal from reaching the starter relay during reverse function. The interlocks are managed by the reverser controller as it gets side stand input and neutral input a long with clutch switch (second level - lever fully in). Once those signals are at the controller it will output what you need to fire the relay (which I realize is a ground now). So it appears one of the interlocks is NOT making it into the controller or the controller is bad.

Here is something I put together for a guy that wanted to bypass the reverser controller, it mmay help.

Reverser Controller Pin Outs
Barrel # 1 (7 wire)

Pin 1 - (BR)Connects to the Reverse speed sensor on transmission only used during reverse
Pin 2 - (GE)Connects to the Reverse speed sensor on transmission only used during reverse
Pin 3 - (SWGN) Is signal Z from the coil, sent by ECU when engine is running not sure of use but suspect only during reverse
Pin 4 - (BRWS) Is connected to side stand switch and receives a ground - reverse interlock.
Pin 5 - No connection
Pin 6 - (GEVI)Connects to the Reverse speed sensor on transmission only used during reverse
Pin 7 - (BRBL)Connects to Gear position sender and gets a Ground when in Neutral (reverse interlock AND ) it sends the ground out Pin 5 on Barrel #2 to the dash to ground and turn on the "N" light.
Pin 8 - No connection
Pin 9 - (BROR)Sends signal SR to ECU to rev up engine a few RPMs for reversing.


Barrel # 2 Female side (10 wire)

Pin 1 - (BR) Ground input to controller.
Pin 2 - (BRRT)Is tied to Pin 3 when the reverse micro switch (#1) is closed. Tells the RC that reverse is engaged.
Pin 3 - (BR) See Pin 2
Pin 4 - (BRVI) Puts out a ground when the bike is in neutral to light the dash light. See pin 7 barrel #1
Pin 5 - (BRGE) Puts out a ground to light the dash "R" when reverse is selected.
Pin 6 - (BRSW) Gets a ground from the clutch switch most likely only used as an interlock on reverse.
Pin 7 - (GNVI) Receives switched power (12V) for the RC
Pin 8 - (BRGR)Provides a ground to the Engine Electronics relay coil ( this coil gets the 12V from the alarm)
Pin 9 - (SWGE) Receives the starter button signal (50A) from the starter button (used by RC in reverse)
Pin 10 - (BRGNGE) Passes the starter button signal (50G) from pin 9 above to the reverse micro switch #2 which then passes the signal to the starter relay when reverse is de-selected.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 114 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #16 of 17 Old May 20th, 2020, 12:07 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Starter not cranking

I put the bike together with the work around. When I tried reverse it seemed really fast. Would that be because of the work around or because the reverse Controller is bad?
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post #17 of 17 Old May 20th, 2020, 9:00 pm
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Re: Starter not cranking

Yes since it is now applying full voltage through the starter relay. Usually when the controller goes bad it melts down (potted high current electric parts) and does not work. Some (with side cars) have chosen to run a faster reverse.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 114 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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