RED LINE - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 14 Old Mar 31st, 2020, 6:41 pm Thread Starter
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Question RED LINE

Why does the red line on a 1999 K1200LT go to 8500 RPM when later models red go to 8000 RPM even 2004 and later with higher HP only go to 8000 RPM just curious?
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post #2 of 14 Old Mar 31st, 2020, 9:11 pm
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Re: RED LINE

That may have been the original setting in the ECU but for some reason they changed it. You can always check yours to see if the rev limiter kicks in at 8,500.

OK I looked at the service manual for the pre 05 bikes and it does state 8,500 as maximum permissible RPM. I also checked the 05 + manual and it also states 8,500 is the max. I need to go out and see where my limiter kicks in and see if it is 8,000 or 8,500. Maybe they just got a good deal on red paint for the dash.

OK I looked at both dashes and they both have 8,000 where the red line is.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 114 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #3 of 14 Old Mar 31st, 2020, 10:12 pm
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Re: RED LINE

I suspect it is to accommodate the lag in the tach. Most tachs lag a little when you are revving the engine quickly as in the lower gears. Back before rev limiters, the tach was often marked a few hundred RPM lower than what the engine could actually withstand so that if the driver shifted when the tack read say 6,000 RPM the engine would actually stay below say 6,500 RPM. At least that was the case on many of the 60s and 70s muscle cars.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #4 of 14 Old Apr 1st, 2020, 6:22 am
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Re: RED LINE

Gary, John, Matt,

See attached image taken from the owners manual (technical handbook) of a USA market K1200LT of 2005-2009.
This is page 68 toward the end with all the specs:
- I have indicated with a GREEN block the RPM at max power: 8000
- I have indicated with a RED block the MAX allowed RPM: 8500

This might explain the confusion between various values - the RPM at which an engine attain its max power is not necessarely the same as the max allowed RPM (mechanical limits). I do not have a copy of the same owners manual for 1999-2004 to compare.

BY THE WAY, on the K1200RS having the same internal mechanical engine components (valve train, crankshafts ....), plus higher compression pistons, the MAX allowed RPM in the specs is 9400 but the Red line on the Tach is at 9000. So, I would NOT worry that anyone will blow up anything at 8500 on a K1200LT ;-)
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-------------------------------------------------
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
-------------------------------------------------
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Last edited by sailor; Apr 1st, 2020 at 8:38 am.
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post #5 of 14 Old Apr 1st, 2020, 7:36 am
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Re: RED LINE

The LT & the RS both have the same valve spring and valve springs have a lot to do with max rpm. I have run my LT on the rev limiter a lot in the mountains but have never looked at the needle when it was on the limiter.

Dave Selvig
2004 Black LT
2000 Canon Red LT



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post #6 of 14 Old Apr 1st, 2020, 7:41 am
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Re: RED LINE

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
Gary, John, Matt,

See attached image taken from the owners manual (technical handbook) of a USA market K1200LT of 2005-2009.
This is page 68 toward the end with all the specs:
- I have indicated with a GREEN block the RPM at max power: 8000
- I have indicated with a RED block the MAX allowed RPM: 8500

This might explain the confusion between various values - the RPM at which an engine attain its max power is not necessarely the same as the max allowed RPM (mechanical limits). I do not have a copy of the same owners manual for 1999-2004 to compare.

BY THE WAY, on the K1200RS having the same internal mechanical engine components (valve train, crankshafts ....), plus highwer compression pistons, the MAX alowed RPM in the specs is 9400 but the Red line on the Tach is at 9000. So, I would NOT worry that anyone will blow up anyting at 8500 on a K1200LT ;-)
I was interested to see the maximum oil consumption of 2,300 MPG or 575 miles per quart. Probably just a metric for denying warranty claims, but a pretty high consumption to still be considered normal.

I still suspect the 500 RPM difference between the published redline and the indicated redline is to allow for lag between tach and engine. If the tach was marked at 8,500, I suspect that when the rev limiter kicked in at 8,500 the tach might only show 8,000 and the owner would complain to the dealer than the engine wasn’t performing properly.

It is sort of like the temp gauge on many modern cars (my 2015 Chevy truck has this) which is computer controlled and does not show the actual engine temp. My truck goes smoothly to 215 degrees and then never wavers. Doesn’t change whether I am plowing snow, towing a trailer or coasting down a long hill. My prior 1994 Chevy truck had a real temp gauge that moved around based on the engine load. I thought 215 was awful high, but when I asked the dealer he said it was normal and “they all run that hight.” Well, after I bought a BluDriver (think GS-911), I checked and the trucks typically runs 192 or so and the temp does vary with engine load as expected, but the gauge never varies from straight up which is 215 degrees. What a stupid decision to waste money on an indicator that is completely meaningless.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #7 of 14 Old Apr 1st, 2020, 6:02 pm
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Re: RED LINE

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
I have indicated with a GREEN block the RPM at max power: 8000

I do not have a copy of the same owners manual for 1999-2004 to compare.
There are two columns in your green block: 85kW (114 hp) @ 8,000 RPM refers to 2005-2009 models, and 72kW (97 hp) @ 8,000 RPM refers to 1998-2004 models. The max torque is almost identical for all years.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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post #8 of 14 Old Apr 2nd, 2020, 7:38 am
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Re: RED LINE

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese View Post
There are two columns in your green block: 85kW (114 hp) @ 8,000 RPM refers to 2005-2009 models, and 72kW (97 hp) @ 8,000 RPM refers to 1998-2004 models. The max torque is almost identical for all years.
As explained clearly in my post, the info is from the 2005-2009 owners manual (USA english version) so it is ONLY valid for these years.

What BMW if trying to say with these 2 columns of info is related to something else: in FRANCE and a few other country in Europe, there was regulation to limit max power to 100HP for motorcycles. This limitiation has been removed very recently in France, but was active all years the K1200LT was produced.

When BMW increased the HP for the 2nd generation K1200LT they went above this 100 HP line, unlike previous / older K1200LT (1999-2004) that produced a bit less than 100 HP. Hence, BMW had to produced 2 variant of the K1200LT and 2 sheets of specs for the HP and 2 different power curve.

In the case of the K1200LT, the 100 HP limitation is only by software in the Motronic-ECU triggered by a simple Relay removal - USA have the YELLOW relay where FRANCE does not (this small box looks like a Relay but is in fact internally a Jumper). This "fake" relay was not needed for the 1999-2004 version of the K1200LT. Of course, given this FRANCE regulation was also active in 1999, the earlier K1200LT generation are also very close to the magic limit number 100 HP (all markets over the world), HOWEVER the torque and power curve is a bit differrent than later models with the software limit implemented.

By the way, the Euro value of 72 KW converts to 96.6 HP AND the other colum at 85 KW converts to 114 HP, although most BMW brochure would often publish 115 HP for the full power version starting in 2005. The factory Service-Manual of the 1st generation for 1999-2004 had only 1 column for the HP spec at 72 KW, so I assume the owners manual of 1999-2004 shows the same.

-------------------------------------------------
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
-------------------------------------------------
Think twice before you hit [SUBMIT REPLY] - famous quote by another member:
"The value of this board is not founded on dismissing the ideas of others, but by posting to share our experiences and what we've learned from them."

Last edited by sailor; Apr 2nd, 2020 at 7:58 am.
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post #9 of 14 Old Apr 2nd, 2020, 10:30 pm
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Re: RED LINE

The red line on my 2000 LT starts at 8,000 RPM. Note the photo of my tachometer which indicates the red line starting at "8" (8,000). The third fine black line (note attached photo) in the middle between the "8" and "9" probably represents 8,500 RPM. I personally don't like to push my bike anywhere near the "red line", the LT is pretty quick enough for me to enjoy at more moderate RPM's.
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post #10 of 14 Old Apr 3rd, 2020, 6:47 am
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Re: RED LINE

I had an 85 k100rs
redline was 8700
Manual listed max continuous RPM 8600.
Man I loved that bike! had it for 17 years
There heard there was a chip that would increase redline to 11,000
I have had rpm to 9200, the injectors shut off.

Sold it, ran great, 350k+ smiles

I have only ran the LT to redline once (5th gear)
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post #11 of 14 Old Apr 3rd, 2020, 7:00 am
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Re: RED LINE

Quote:
Originally Posted by red85k100rs View Post
I had an 85 k100rs
redline was 8700
Manual listed max continuous RPM 8600.
Man I loved that bike! had it for 17 years
There heard there was a chip that would increase redline to 11,000
I have had rpm to 9200, the injectors shut off.

Sold it, ran great, 350k+ smiles

I have only ran the LT to redline once (5th gear)
You must have been going down a really long hill as my LT won’t even come close to getting to redline in 5th on the level. It actually goes faster in 4th than in 5th.

Although, when my clutch was oiled I could hit redline in both 4th and 5th.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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Last edited by Voyager; Apr 3rd, 2020 at 7:06 am.
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post #12 of 14 Old Apr 3rd, 2020, 12:42 pm
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Re: RED LINE

The RS has a lot less wind resistance, which is a killer for the LT. Remember double the speed quadruple the wind resistance.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 114 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #13 of 14 Old Apr 3rd, 2020, 12:48 pm
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Re: RED LINE

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
The RS has a lot less wind resistance, which is a killer for the LT. Remember double the speed quadruple the wind resistance.
Red85k100rs said “LT” not “RS.”

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #14 of 14 Old Apr 3rd, 2020, 12:56 pm
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Re: RED LINE

My bad, must have been down hill with a tail wind or a slipping clutch.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 114 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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