Cardo Packtalk Bold experience - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 13 Old Mar 22nd, 2020, 10:49 am Thread Starter
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Cardo Packtalk Bold experience

I decided to start a new thread rather than add to the old one from last summer. I just completed my first long trip with the Cardo Packtalk Bold set I bought last July when my VOICE II intercom started to act up on the passenger channel and my efforts to fix the static issue failed (change cables, cleaned connections, etc.). I suspect it is in the output driver of the intercom itself, but I have not found anyone able to work on that intercom.

Overall, my opinion of the Cardo Packtalk Bold unit is not good, particularly for the cost. If I had to do it again, I would probably try a cheap Chinese unit first. Here the the pros and cons I have seen thus far. For reference, I did spend the extra money for the JBL speakers which are supposed to give better sound.

Pros:

1. Wireless so no cables to plug and unplug. This is handy especially when walking around at rest stops when you can still talk to each other

2. The VOX on the intercom works much better than on the BMW intercom. Linda always had to shout to activate her mic. That was the only real issue I ever had with the BMW wired intercom. The VOX was always crap.

3. The voice recognition feature works surprisingly well, which is good when you read the button “con” below

Cons:

1. Have to remember to charge every night. We forgot a couple of times, but are now developing the habit

2. Have to carry chargers and cables

3. Bulkier than wired intercom so fitting helmets in the top case is nearly impossible unless you remove the units

4. Hard to operate with gloves on. The “buttons” are nearly impossible to feel with winter gloves on. The good news is that most functions can be voice commanded, but some essential functions such as scanning for radio stations can’t for reasons that are a mystery to me. Then again, I didn’t have much need to scan for stations as you will read below

5. The audio volume and clarity is quite good for system messages, GPS commands, intercom and phone calls, although Linda finds the volume too low to hear me very well when we are traveling more than about 40 MPH.

6. The audio volume for the FM radio and music from a phone is terrible. You can hear the music somewhat if you don’t wear earplugs and don’t ride above 55 MPH. Add earplugs, and the music is all but impossible to hear unless you are riding below 40 MPH and very near to a strong station. I am perplexed why the commands from the GPS are so much louder than the FM radio. And, yes, I know each source has its own volume setting and we have all four settings (phone, music, FM radio, intercom) at the max as confirmed by the Cardo phone app. We also have the iPhone volume set to the max also. It is so bad that I could hear music from the bike’s speakers with far better fidelity and volume than the Cardo/JBL speakers right beside my ears!

I have read the manual multiple times and tried everything I can think of. I have watched youtube videos from both Cardo and other users and tried all of their suggestions. I have checked speaker placement, proximity to our ears, wire connections to speakers, etc., but nothing has made a difference. Some others seem to have no problem so maybe we just got a bad pair of units, but it seems unlikely that both would be bad with the same issue. So, I filed a case with Cardo today and we will see what they say. I may have to return the units under warranty and see if a different set will give better results.

At this point, the units work fine for GPS commands and acceptably for intercom, though Linda could use more volume, but are completely worthless for FM radio and playing music from our iphones. Knowing this, I would have bought a very cheap set of wireless headsets that would work for GPS and intercom and simply use the bike’s speakers for music.

I would buy earbuds as some have suggested, but I don’t think that is an option as the Bold units don’t have the 3.5mm jack needed for corded earbuds and it has only two bluetooth channels so I can’t pair BT earbuds and still be able to pair to my GPS and iPhone for navigation and phone calls.

If anyone else is using Packtalk Bold units with better success, I would love to compare notes with you and see if we can find what is wrong with mine. And if you have found a way to use earbuds, a phone and a GPS at the same time, I’d like to learn how to do that as well.

I will post here again if I get anything from Cardo and what the resolution, if any, is. As it stands now, these units were not worth anywhere near the $500 I paid for them. I sure wish I had a way to fix the BMW intercom...

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #2 of 13 Old Mar 22nd, 2020, 11:38 am
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Re: Cardo Packtalk Bold experience

For years my wife and I have used custom made earphones with the Voice II, Starcom1, Sena 20s and about 6 months ago we switched to the Cardo Palktalk Bold, all with excellent results. The Palktalk is perfect for both of us with earphones. Music is really nice and all other functions are great.
I am not sure how you are under the impression the Cardo does not have a headphone jack??? It in fact does and I have done a handy little zip tie method to make it easy to use the jacks on ours and we can switch to the speakers quickly if we want to ride without our eardphones. (See attached photo.) Just look in your helmet liner and you will see your speakers are plugged in that jack right now.
We use PlugUp earphones, got my first set at a BMW event in 2003 and just got a new set from her at the IMS show in Long Beach just this last November.
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post #3 of 13 Old Mar 22nd, 2020, 12:28 pm
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Re: Cardo Packtalk Bold experience

My Packtalk Bold also does have a 3.5mm jack. I use my Big Ear ear buds and the sound fidelity is fantastic, with an ability to run the volume at a very low level.

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post #4 of 13 Old Mar 22nd, 2020, 1:05 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Cardo Packtalk Bold experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottydawg View Post
For years my wife and I have used custom made earphones with the Voice II, Starcom1, Sena 20s and about 6 months ago we switched to the Cardo Palktalk Bold, all with excellent results. The Palktalk is perfect for both of us with earphones. Music is really nice and all other functions are great.
I am not sure how you are under the impression the Cardo does not have a headphone jack??? It in fact does and I have done a handy little zip tie method to make it easy to use the jacks on ours and we can switch to the speakers quickly if we want to ride without our headphones. (See attached photos.) Just look in your helmet liner and you will see your speakers are plugged in that jack right now.
We use PlugUp earphones, got my first set at a BMW event in 2003 and just got a new set from her at the IMS show in Long Beach just this last November.
OK, I should have said it has no auxiliary 3.5 mm jack. Switching between the in helmet speakers and earbuds is a nuisance, but I may have to try that as I have had no luck getting the speakers to work acceptably. I expected the JBL speakers to be a big step up from the speakers in my old BMW headset, but they aren’t even close to being as good let alone being better. My corded headset has more volume at 50% setting than the Cardo has at full volume.

I am hoping Cardo can show me some setting I have wrong or some other easy fix, but if not, I will have to disconnect the speakers and invest more money in earbuds which I assume would solve the problem nicely. That makes the wireless headsets even less convenient than the corded headsets as unhooking the intercom cord on the LT is much easier than unplugging and plugging in the audio jack for the earbuds every time you remove your helmet. I was hoping for a better solution, but I suspect you have found the only good solution.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #5 of 13 Old Mar 22nd, 2020, 1:08 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Cardo Packtalk Bold experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by powwow View Post
My Packtalk Bold also does have a 3.5mm jack. I use my Big Ear ear buds and the sound fidelity is fantastic, with an ability to run the volume at a very low level.
Yes, the jack for the built in speakers is 3.5 mm, but I wasn’t counting that as I was taking of units that have a 3.5 mm jack in addition to the connection for their included speakers.

I would have been far better off forgoing the expensive JBL speaker upgrade and investing in earbuds instead. I am still hoping for a solution from Cardo, but I expect now that the ear bud solution in place of the internal speakers is the only way to go. Maybe I can sell the JBLs on ebay and recover some of the money wasted on them.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #6 of 13 Old Mar 22nd, 2020, 1:15 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Cardo Packtalk Bold experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottydawg View Post
For years my wife and I have used custom made earphones with the Voice II, Starcom1, Sena 20s and about 6 months ago we switched to the Cardo Palktalk Bold, all with excellent results. The Palktalk is perfect for both of us with earphones. Music is really nice and all other functions are great.
I am not sure how you are under the impression the Cardo does not have a headphone jack??? It in fact does and I have done a handy little zip tie method to make it easy to use the jacks on ours and we can switch to the speakers quickly if we want to ride without our headphones. (See attached photos.) Just look in your helmet liner and you will see your speakers are plugged in that jack right now.
We use PlugUp earphones, got my first set at a BMW event in 2003 and just got a new set from her at the IMS show in Long Beach just this last November.
The Plug Ups look nice, but I guess for another $500 for a pair they should!

Do they stay in your ears well when putting on and removing your helmet? My helmets fit quite snug as helmets should so I wonder if the cords will not pull out the buds when sliding the helmet on. Do you wear a beanie cap or doo-rag? Do you unplug the ear buds when removing your helmet? Or do you remove the helmet and just remove the ear buds and leave them connected to the helmet?

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #7 of 13 Old Mar 23rd, 2020, 1:25 am
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Re: Cardo Packtalk Bold experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
The Plug Ups look nice, but I guess for another $500 for a pair they should!

Do they stay in your ears well when putting on and removing your helmet? My helmets fit quite snug as helmets should so I wonder if the cords will not pull out the buds when sliding the helmet on. Do you wear a beanie cap or doo-rag? Do you unplug the ear buds when removing your helmet? Or do you remove the helmet and just remove the ear buds and leave them connected to the helmet?
The PlugUps are about $250 for a pair or $350 for dual drivers. I would call her (Marilyn) and see if she can offer a discount if you get two pair. With no motorcycle shows right now things might be a little slow and worth asking. I have the 3.5 foot cord and dual drivers. My last pair were single driver and still sounded very good.
They fit and stay in our ears really excellent. Neither of us wear anything except our helmets, so I can't comment if it would help or hinder the cords to wear a beanie. I like the sound enough that I plug them in my cell phone when I fly on airplanes.
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post #8 of 13 Old Mar 23rd, 2020, 8:48 am Thread Starter
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Re: Cardo Packtalk Bold experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottydawg View Post
The PlugUps are about $250 for a pair or $350 for dual drivers. I would call her (Marilyn) and see if she can offer a discount if you get two pair. With no motorcycle shows right now things might be a little slow and worth asking. I have the 3.5 foot cord and dual drivers. My last pair were single driver and still sounded very good.
They fit and stay in our ears really excellent. Neither of us wear anything except our helmets, so I can't comment if it would help or hinder the cords to wear a beanie. I like the sound enough that I plug them in my cell phone when I fly on airplanes.
I appreciate the information. In looking at their technical specs, it does not appear that the dual speaker/driver is worth $100. It adds very little to frequency response and it adds in mainly in an area that I haven’t heard since I was 16 (18 - 20 kHz). I don’t listen to music a lot as I am happy to hear the LT and the road most of the time, but music is nice those times when I have to drone down the interstate as recently on my beeline back from Florida. I really thought spending $500 for the top of the line Cardo/JBL would do the trick and it isn’t even close. Not really sure I want to risk another $500 only to be disappointed again. However, I think this is the only option that has a chance to work with wireless headsets as they just don’t have the power to drive speakers properly and still have any reasonable battery life. Just a matter of physics.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #9 of 13 Old Mar 24th, 2020, 10:38 am Thread Starter
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Re: Cardo Packtalk Bold experience

I heard back from Cardo support fairly quickly, about a day after I submitted my question. They commented that wearing earplugs while using their units might be a problem (wish they told you that before you bought them) and suggested a factory reset. Rather than type it all again, I am pasting below their response to me and my reply back this morning with a couple issues I found. If any of you with PacktalkBold units are willing to replicate my experiement, I would be curious to know if you see a significant reduction in your FM radio volume when you fire up a second headset that is connected in DMC mode to your headset. That seems to be a significant part of our problem.

Here is the email conversation verbatim with my reply first and the original Cardo email at the bottom:

“Good morning,

I did a factory reset on both units. I then paired each iphone to its respective helmet. I then turned on the FM radio and turned the volume to full. The volume was OK, but not all that loud. It was easy to hear without earplugs, but only OK with earplugs in. I also noticed that my wife’s unit will not tune to one of our favorite radio stations, 96.1. We have six preset stations and my wife’s unit tunes 5 of them OK, but gets mainly static on 96.1 whereas my unit tunes all six.

Here is where it got weird. With my FM radio playing at full volume, my wife turned on her headset. As soon as her headset was turned on, my headset FM radio volume dropped substantially, probably 30-50%, I’d say at least two levels of “Hey Cardo, volume down.” We waited 30 seconds or so and it stayed at that low volume. We then turned off my wife’s headset and nothing changed immediately, but about 10 seconds later the volume in my headset returned to normal. On subsequent tests I found that if I rolled the wheel forward after may wife’s headset was turned off, the volume would come back instantly without the 10 second wait.

Thinking that maybe the iphone connections were part of the problem, we turned off bluetooth on both phones to disconnect them. This made no difference.

Any suggestion as to what would cause this? After doing this, I remembered that last summer I seemed to have much better radio reception while riding my KLR650 alone than I do while riding my K1200LT with my wife. I thought that odd as the BMW is the quieter bike with its full fairing and large windshield. I think I now know the answer. The volume issue seems to come into play when the DMC intercom is connected to another headset.

Let me know what to try next. Or if I need to send the units back for warranty replacement. I am happy to make a video of this behavior and send it to you if that helps. I am sure the volume reduction will be audible on a recording as it is quite pronounced.

Regards,
Matt

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 23, 2020, at 3:29 PM, Cardo Support <[email protected]> wrote:

 Hello Matthew,
Wearing earplugs is probably part of the problem as they are designed to block out sound. Please try performing a factory reset on your devices and erase the pairings out of your phones. Then pair back together from fresh and see if the issues remain.



Best,
Cardo Support”

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #10 of 13 Old Mar 24th, 2020, 11:28 am Thread Starter
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Re: Cardo Packtalk Bold experience

Got a very quick response from Cardo to my last email. Unfortunately, the response is some good news, but mostly bad news. They will replace Linda’s unit since it will not turn 96.1 FM for some reason. However, in regard to the significant volume reduction I noticed when the headsets are both on and connected in DMC mode, it appears that is a design defect. They say it is normal, but that is what you call defects that get out into the field.

Here is the response verbatim: “As for the volume drop when in DMC that is completely normal as the device is splitting audio between music and intercom conversation.”

So, if you are considering the Cardo Packtalk Bold units, particularly if you aren’t just a solo rider, I suggest you consider the following:

1. Try to find someone that has a set you can try wearing whatever ear protection you prefer. And make sure you have both headsets on and connected in DMC. The sound would be barely acceptable if if stayed the same as it is with only one headset powered up, but with both powered up the “normal” reduction in volume makes the music unintelligible at road speeds.

2. Don’t spend the extra money for the JBL speakers, but instead buy earbuds as scottydawg has done. I have found a much less expensive set and will probably risk the $45 to see if this helps much before I consider the $250 each cost of the PlugUp brand. Depending on how well the guinea pig Fuze unit works, I will decide whether to spend another $45 for a second set or whether to go all out for the $500 pair of PlugUps.

Sure wish I had a way to fix my old VOICE II passenger intercom. That was much better than the Cardo units in almost every dimension.
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2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #11 of 13 Old Mar 24th, 2020, 11:58 am
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Re: Cardo Packtalk Bold experience

"before I consider the $250 each cost of the PlugUp brand. Depending on how well the guinea pig Fuze unit works, I will decide whether to spend another $45 for a second set or whether to go all out for the $500 pair of PlugUps."

Matt, if you are going with a wired set, look at the Bose QuiteComfort 20's with active noise cancelling. Can't recommend enough. Considered the best NC phones. Same price as the lower end plugup, and I would expect much better sound quality. They had an awareness button so you can leave the helmet on and talk and hear others. They are the only pair I have tried that doesn't clip from the turbulence. I've gotten over 16 hrs life on an International flight.

_____________

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post #12 of 13 Old Mar 24th, 2020, 12:26 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Cardo Packtalk Bold experience

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"before I consider the $250 each cost of the PlugUp brand. Depending on how well the guinea pig Fuze unit works, I will decide whether to spend another $45 for a second set or whether to go all out for the $500 pair of PlugUps."

Matt, if you are going with a wired set, look at the Bose QuiteComfort 20's with active noise cancelling. Can't recommend enough. Considered the best NC phones. Same price as the lower end plugup, and I would expect much better sound quality. They had an awareness button so you can leave the helmet on and talk and hear others. They are the only pair I have tried that doesn't clip from the turbulence. I've gotten over 16 hrs life on an International flight.
A little more complicated and expensive than I need. I think I just need good earbud speakers that also provide decent attenuation of wind and road noise. I definitely don’t want another battery to charge. Got too many already. I will just use the bike speakers before I do that. They are better than the Cardo JBL helmet speakers.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #13 of 13 Old Mar 24th, 2020, 12:29 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Cardo Packtalk Bold experience

I questioned Cardo on the volume reduction and this is what they said. It appears we can either listen to music somewhat well OR use the intercom, but can’t do both at the same time. What a stupid design.

“DMC has an always open intercom so as soon as the device is turned on it connects and the intercom is opened that is why you are getting the instant drop in volume. The JBL speakers are part of what comes with the device and we cannot credit you for them. If you want to adjust you FM radio volume you can do so in the Cardo Connect app. You will hit the settings wheel in the top left corner, then audio settings, and finally volume levels. Here you will see 6 individual master volumes that can be adjusted.”

For the record, all of my volume settings are at the max levels and the music is still far too low to hear when wearing earplugs and is barely acceptable when not wearing earplugs. At least a now I now why the volume of the intercom and GPS commands is so much louder than the volume of the music.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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