Oil on top of the engine - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 28 Old Jan 29th, 2020, 3:37 pm Thread Starter
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Oil on top of the engine

Hi everyone
I just got a 2005 LT and I noticed there’s a pool of oil on top of the engine
Any idea what that could be ?
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post #2 of 28 Old Jan 29th, 2020, 4:27 pm
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Re: Oil on top of the engine

Hi Khaled-nice purchase! I hope you have, or plan to purchase a Clymer manual...
It is most likely a blown crankcase breather tube which sits on top of the engine and connects to the intake manifolds... when I bought my 2000 it had the same scenario.
If that is the problem you can google the fix which is either replace the part, or make your own if you are handy with tools, and don't mind tearing into the Tupperware, etc.
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post #3 of 28 Old Jan 29th, 2020, 4:29 pm
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Re: Oil on top of the engine

Hi , welcome to the form the oil most likely is the breather hose has a hole in it . It happens , I replaced mine once, then built one out of copper pipe.
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post #4 of 28 Old Jan 29th, 2020, 6:32 pm
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Red face Re: Oil on top of the engine

Welcome to the world of the BMW K12LT.

If you have not had a BMW before, there are "special" features to them, one of which is the secret extra oil reserve on top of the engine. =-}

I can't tell much from your picture, but if it is just a layer of dirty oil and it doesn't seem to be getting worse, I would monitor it and get to know the bike before attempting a repair.

Just to look at the the hose where it is attached to the top of the motor will require fuel tank removal to look on the right side just in front of the frame. If it is detached behind the air box, you have just started Grasshopper.
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05 K1200LT - The Golden Rocket Ship
91 K100RS - The White Stallion
85 K100 Standard - Big Red
79 R65 - "The Bee" is a buzzin' again!
06 525i - Premium, Sport, Comfort, Xenons

Gone, but not forgotten...
02 K1200LTC - Big Blue (accident at 40k)
88 K100RT - Chocolate (it was brown, melted - fire)
85 K100RT - (wore out)
82 Yamaha Vision - (electrics)
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post #5 of 28 Old Jan 29th, 2020, 10:27 pm
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Re: Oil on top of the engine

It is not an urgent fix item. I have the original tube on my 05 with 114,000 miles on it. I check it for leaks when ever I have the throttle bodies off and I repair any leaks with a black silicone seal. Here are a few shots of what others have done.
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post #6 of 28 Old Jan 30th, 2020, 3:41 pm Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for your replies , and yes I’m new to this bike , I just bought it and get this issue with it , without me knowing about it,
Actually it starts to make a smoke once it warm up , I don’t think I’ll be able to drive it like that.
And it seems getting there will not be that easy.
Hope I’ll be able to do it
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post #7 of 28 Old Jan 30th, 2020, 3:59 pm
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Re: Oil on top of the engine

A little smoke is normal if put on the side stand too soon after you shut down the engine. The head is on the side stand side and oil runs past the piston rings unless you hold the bike level for a few seconds after shut down to drain the oil from the cylinders.
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2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #8 of 28 Old Jan 30th, 2020, 6:22 pm
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Re: Oil on top of the engine

I am too new to the K12lt, but I did extensive writing on the fuel injection of the K75/K100.
The problem with a broken crankcase breather is that it will allow extra air intake in the fuel injection system.
Depending on the size of the leak, the engine could run really rough.
On the "old" K bikes, if you don't tight the oil filling cap on the crankcase, the engine will sputter on idle. As the breather is plugged directly on the intake (between the mass air flow sensor and the throttle body), the computer will not take in consideration the excess of air when trying to have the "perfect" mixture air/gas
Again, K100 or K12 seem to share a lot of features and I wouldn't be surprised that this is one of them.
My 2 ....
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post #9 of 28 Old Jan 30th, 2020, 7:02 pm
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Re: Oil on top of the engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy frog View Post
I am too new to the K12lt, but I did extensive writing on the fuel injection of the K75/K100.
The problem with a broken crankcase breather is that it will allow extra air intake in the fuel injection system.
Depending on the size of the leak, the engine could run really rough.
On the "old" K bikes, if you don't tight the oil filling cap on the crankcase, the engine will sputter on idle. As the breather is plugged directly on the intake (between the mass air flow sensor and the throttle body), the computer will not take in consideration the excess of air when trying to have the "perfect" mixture air/gas
Again, K100 or K12 seem to share a lot of features and I wouldn't be surprised that this is one of them.
My 2 ....
Bert,
Agree that some mechanical experience from K100 and K75 can be usefull... HOWEVER Motronic 2.2 (K1100) or Motronic 2.4 (K1200) are very different compare to older BOSCH systems (Jetronic, L-Jetronic, K-Jetronic...). Some of these differences can also trick you on a wrong troubleshooting path if you assume they work the same.


Motronic 2.4 as seen on K1200 (and also on R1150) does NOT use a Air-Flow meter (or flap) to measure metering of air. Like many more recent Fuel-Injection system of the 1990 era, it is based on combination of RPM and Throttle-Position-Sensor (TPS = angle of throttle opening). Motronic default Fuel mapping is based on these 2 items PLUS the other temp sensors (coolant and air).

TPS adjustment (or tampering) is a lot more critical on these Motronic. In addition, these "more modern" TPS do not have a "click" lowest setting position as seen on older Jetronic.

Of course, like the older Jetronic, Motronic can be trown off base by unmetered air (intake air leak) entering from external source, but in a different way - depending if air leak is from above OR below the butterfly of each throttle-bodies. Opening the oil filler cap while engine is running will also create RPM fluctuation like it did in older K100.

-------------------------------------------------
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K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
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Last edited by sailor; Jan 30th, 2020 at 7:13 pm.
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post #10 of 28 Old Jan 30th, 2020, 8:10 pm
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Re: Oil on top of the engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
Bert,
Of course, like the older Jetronic, Motronic can be trown off base by unmetered air (intake air leak) entering from external source, but in a different way - depending if air leak is from above OR below the butterfly of each throttle-bodies. Opening the oil filler cap while engine is running will also create RPM fluctuation like it did in older K100.
Thanks John,


As I said, I am on the learning curve and just start to learn about the "features" of the K12.
I have to look at diagrams to see where the crankcase vent is going, but from what you said, open the oil filling cap produce the same effect as the old Ks and the vent certainly enter the FI system in the same area as an old K.
I just started to dismantle the bike and over our long winter, I will try to learn as much as possible.
My first spring's long ride will certainly be to Montreal and hopefully we can meet for a coffee.

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post #11 of 28 Old Jan 31st, 2020, 9:04 am
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Re: Oil on top of the engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy frog View Post
Thanks John,


As I said, I am on the learning curve and just start to learn about the "features" of the K12.
I have to look at diagrams to see where the crankcase vent is going, but from what you said, open the oil filling cap produce the same effect as the old Ks and the vent certainly enter the FI system in the same area as an old K.
I just started to dismantle the bike and over our long winter, I will try to learn as much as possible.
My first spring's long ride will certainly be to Montreal and hopefully we can meet for a coffee.
As shown by JZEILER in a post a bit above mine, the crankcase vent system is a 4-into-1 rubber hose connected to the throttle-bodies assy. At the other end, the connection to the top of the engine (top of crankcase) is at same location as K100/K75.

See attached picture 1 - throttle bodies assy from BACK view: RED arrows show the 4-into-1 rubber connection hose AND the GREEN circle shows where another small rubber section goes (toward crankcase on top of engine).

See attached picture 2 - throttle bodies assy from TOP view: RED arrows show the 4-into-1 vent system leads to a hole ABOVE each individual butterfly, so it tend to make an oily mess on the long run. However, the design is such that the air-box does not get as dirty / oily as older bricks. YELLOW circle shows a "T" junction of the vacuum hoses - this "T" is present only on USA specs K1200 having the charcoal canister.

P.S.: I am located about 35 minutes from Montreal on south shore. Would love to meet you next spring whenever this damn white stuff melts ;-)
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post #12 of 28 Old Jan 31st, 2020, 9:10 am
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Thumbs up Re: Oil on top of the engine

Whoa! Great explanation with good pictures.

Thank you.

25 cm of white stuff for this week end.
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post #13 of 28 Old Jan 31st, 2020, 10:57 am
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Re: Oil on top of the engine

Having removed and replaced the throttle bodies and air box on both the K100 and the K1200 with in the past month, I'll take the soft rubber z hose any day over installing that breather tube again.
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05 K1200LT - The Golden Rocket Ship
91 K100RS - The White Stallion
85 K100 Standard - Big Red
79 R65 - "The Bee" is a buzzin' again!
06 525i - Premium, Sport, Comfort, Xenons

Gone, but not forgotten...
02 K1200LTC - Big Blue (accident at 40k)
88 K100RT - Chocolate (it was brown, melted - fire)
85 K100RT - (wore out)
82 Yamaha Vision - (electrics)
72 Yamaha R5C 350 - (broke trans)
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post #14 of 28 Old Feb 1st, 2020, 8:23 am Thread Starter
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So I successfully removed the fairing , with no damages , so what’s next ? 😁
Look like a long way to get in there
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post #15 of 28 Old Feb 1st, 2020, 11:54 am
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Re: Oil on top of the engine

Look behind where the fuel lines go under the tank.

Again, not a major worry unless she isn't running well. You will need a manual.

What kind of connections are those at the fuel tank?

_____________

Kim Thomson
Motorcycle Cigar Smoker
05 K1200LT - The Golden Rocket Ship
91 K100RS - The White Stallion
85 K100 Standard - Big Red
79 R65 - "The Bee" is a buzzin' again!
06 525i - Premium, Sport, Comfort, Xenons

Gone, but not forgotten...
02 K1200LTC - Big Blue (accident at 40k)
88 K100RT - Chocolate (it was brown, melted - fire)
85 K100RT - (wore out)
82 Yamaha Vision - (electrics)
72 Yamaha R5C 350 - (broke trans)
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post #16 of 28 Old Feb 1st, 2020, 12:20 pm Thread Starter
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When I run it, doesn’t smell good at all, and when it warm up , it start to smoke , from the engine .
Here’s the photo
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post #17 of 28 Old Feb 1st, 2020, 1:13 pm
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Re: Oil on top of the engine

Where is the smoke coming from? "From the engine" isn't specific enough.
Front, rear, left, right, top, bottom, exhaust?

Maybe this is an opportunity to give her a good cleaning - no pressure washer - to determine where the leak is coming from. Search for Saddleman and bike cleaning, he does it one a year.

Those fuel hoses need some attention. That worm gear really isn't rated for fuel injection. You want oetiker clamps or actual fuel injection clamps. Not that we take the tank off much, but quick connects work well here as they can help avoid hooking the hoses up backwards - Search

It is a good idea to put your location and year bike in your profile, you might have an experienced bmwlt wrench near that can help.

_____________

Kim Thomson
Motorcycle Cigar Smoker
05 K1200LT - The Golden Rocket Ship
91 K100RS - The White Stallion
85 K100 Standard - Big Red
79 R65 - "The Bee" is a buzzin' again!
06 525i - Premium, Sport, Comfort, Xenons

Gone, but not forgotten...
02 K1200LTC - Big Blue (accident at 40k)
88 K100RT - Chocolate (it was brown, melted - fire)
85 K100RT - (wore out)
82 Yamaha Vision - (electrics)
72 Yamaha R5C 350 - (broke trans)
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post #18 of 28 Old Feb 1st, 2020, 11:28 pm
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Re: Oil on top of the engine

Here is a shot of where the breather connects to the engine crankcase.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #19 of 28 Old Feb 2nd, 2020, 7:39 am
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Re: Oil on top of the engine

I did this job myself last year around November. For me I think I spent around 15 hours getting it all done. The tank needs to come off so while you are doing that it is a very good idea to replace your air and fuel filter and see how the inside tank lines are looking. Just be very particular and take pictures. I also made a point of getting white tape and labeling every electrical plug and hose connection that you need to remove. Be aware that the 4 plugs that go to your injectors are identical to the power outlet plug that is down by your gear change. Label these and label the injector plugs 1 to 4.
Try not to think of it as one big daunting job but a series of small tasks that need to be accomplished on the way to your goal. It's a bit like peeling an onion, just go layer by layer.
One important thing I found that I didn't even know was a problem is that the overflow tube coming from the radiator cap to the overflow tank had ruptured just at the hose clamp at the cap.
Keep an eye out for little things like this and fix them as you go. Before you know it you are more connected to your bike because you know it more.
When I put it all back together it fired up straight away. Because of the new crank case tube the bike also runs silky smooth at idle where before it used to surge a lot.
The clamps that hold the throttle body to the inlet ports look tricky but once you know how to manipulate them they are a piece of cake. Resist the urge to replace these with normal hose clamps as they take up important space that is needed for the smooth operation of the throttle.
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post #20 of 28 Old Feb 2nd, 2020, 7:47 am
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Re: Oil on top of the engine

And just a little side note to my reply. I left the throttle cables attached to the throttle body so as to avoid the need to fiddle with them and readjust them. Inspect them carefully to see if there is any fraying. If they are in good condition leave them attached and just support the removed throttle body with a bit of wire so you don't stress the cables. I found it quite easy to do all the cleaning that was required with the throttle body hanging there. Also make sure you cover the open inlets so you don't drop any loose screws a bits of debris down there.
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post #21 of 28 Old Feb 2nd, 2020, 3:09 pm
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Re: Oil on top of the engine

As I take things apart ,I wright everything down . then I can put it back together in reverse order. I have Sometimes got ahead of my self , and had to back track to get some parts on.
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2010 R1200GSA ...1987 Helix...
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post #22 of 28 Old Feb 2nd, 2020, 5:59 pm
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Re: Oil on top of the engine

Look in the archives, I built a manifold and used four separate hoses. Much easier to install. I have a spare if you are interested.

Robert

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post #23 of 28 Old Feb 2nd, 2020, 6:08 pm
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Re: Oil on top of the engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patric View Post
As I take things apart ,I wright everything down . then I can put it back together in reverse order. I have Sometimes got ahead of my self , and had to back track to get some parts on.
I started to dismantle the bike and at this point, all the screws are back where they belong.
It won't be any sorting when I will put it back together.
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post #24 of 28 Old Feb 4th, 2020, 10:09 am
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Re: Oil on top of the engine

Crazy Frog , You look like you have your work cut out for you.

..One time I was working on my bike . The front swing arm...the part the shock bolts to.. was bent . so I was taking things off to get to where it is attached. When I got to it I needed some special tools , so it took a week or so to make them up on my lath . After I got the swing arm off, my Gall bladder went bad so it had to go. By the time I could get back to working on the bike I would get a part on then, ...Ah...shootie darn ... it has to come back off to put more parts on first..
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2010 R1200GSA ...1987 Helix...
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post #25 of 28 Old Feb 4th, 2020, 10:20 am
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Re: Oil on top of the engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patric View Post
Crazy Frog , You look like you have your work cut out for you.
I would get a part on then, ...Ah...shootie darn ... it has to come back off to put more parts on first..
This may happen to me too, but that's the part of the learning process.
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post #26 of 28 Old Today, 2:50 am Thread Starter
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I removed the fuel tank and reached this point
How I can remove the air box ? 😬
More underneath waiting for me to reach the breather hose?😅

2005 K1200LT
Dubai
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post #27 of 28 Old Today, 1:59 pm
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Re: Oil on top of the engine

Best thing at this point is remove the fuel rail, then undo the 4 TB clamps at the bottom of the TBs and remove it all as an assembly and support it from the handle bars. This will put the breather hose in easy access.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #28 of 28 Old Today, 3:33 pm
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Re: Oil on top of the engine

Fan shroud has to come off first to remove rail - screw on top and bottom.

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Kim Thomson
Motorcycle Cigar Smoker
05 K1200LT - The Golden Rocket Ship
91 K100RS - The White Stallion
85 K100 Standard - Big Red
79 R65 - "The Bee" is a buzzin' again!
06 525i - Premium, Sport, Comfort, Xenons

Gone, but not forgotten...
02 K1200LTC - Big Blue (accident at 40k)
88 K100RT - Chocolate (it was brown, melted - fire)
85 K100RT - (wore out)
82 Yamaha Vision - (electrics)
72 Yamaha R5C 350 - (broke trans)
alabrew is offline  
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