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Cruise Control not working in cold weather

3K views 33 replies 9 participants last post by  RABlvmy88 
#1 ·
I've been trying to diagnose and fix a problem with my CC so I have been digging into the archives. It first started to not work in cold weather. Then it would shut off when I would hit a bump. Now it works every second Tuesday of the week and only for a very short time. In spite of the good reading I now find myself lost and confused.(Not a new place for me) I have tried the ten step procedure as described by Mark Neblett and all is good until #6 and after. On #6 I am to pull in the clutch lever to get the light-nope. Then each step after that is a negative response as well. Is this telling me that the switch at the clutch lever is bad or should I be looking for something else? I checked the adjustment on the throttle cables did a bit of a tweek and still got the same results. This is on a 06 LT.
Thanks for the response.
 
#2 ·
Yes, common for the clutch switch to get out of adjustment. Easy fix.
 
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#3 ·
How did you adjust it? Mine had this same problem in Alaska. I looked at it briefly, but I could barely see the switch let alone see how to adjust it and really didn’t want to fully disassemble it in the field.
 
#5 · (Edited by Moderator)
I had to do it on the '02, so it has been a few years. IIRC, it took a fine bladed screwdriver and I just moved it a bit.

I searched for "clutch switch adjustment" and quickly found this:

Have you seen the video tutorial and the PDF document to help you with the cruise-control troubleshooting ?

See post #1 of this thread on same forum:
https://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt/61130-k1200rs-cruise-control-troubleshooting-tutorial.html

If cruise goes out (intermittent) when hitting bumps, is is most commonly caused by a loose clutch-lever micro-switch. As explained in Video and in PDF document, one of the difficulty lies with the fact that the Throttle micro-switch and the Clutch-lever micro-switch are on the same signal wire - thus when any of those 2 are not working correctly (stuck in the "clicked" position or defective), the diagnostic procedure will fail at the throttle step.

As shown in the video, you need to pay VERY CLOSE attention to WHEN and HOW they click based on the lever movement (or throttle movement) - you need a quiet environment to do this.

If it is the clutch micro-switch: review video beginning at 7:37 (min:sec) where the micro-switch location is shown - you will need to loosen single screw of the switch, do a small rotation of switch (not much is available) and re-tighten it. You need to hear the "click" of the switch after a small lever movement otherwise it will keep being hit too early. The wear in the lever pivot bushing is also a factor (as you have said) and may amplify the problem. In most cases, you can rotate the switch just a tiny amount to compensate. In the worst case, I have bent the metal tab of the switch, but this is a bit tricky as there is another switch and metal tab behind (for starter safety interlocks when in gear).

If it is the Throttle micro-switch: cable free play and cable routing is critical. Using a good flashlight, compare video behavior with yours when throttle is fully closed from rest position.

Let us know how it goes...
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John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
-------------------------------------------------
Think twice before you hit [SUBMIT REPLY] - famous quote by another member:
"The value of this board is not founded on dismissing the ideas of others, but by posting to share our experiences and what we've learned from them."
 
#6 ·
I had to do it on the '02, so it has been a few years. IIRC, it took a fine bladed screwdriver and I just moved it a bit.

I searched for "clutch switch adjustment" and quickly found this:

Have you seen the video tutorial and the PDF document to help you with the cruise-control troubleshooting ?

See post #1 of this thread on same forum:
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt/...-tutorial.html

If cruise goes out (intermittent) when hitting bumps, is is most commonly caused by a loose clutch-lever micro-switch. As explained in Video and in PDF document, one of the difficulty lies with the fact that the Throttle micro-switch and the Clutch-lever micro-switch are on the same signal wire - thus when any of those 2 are not working correctly (stuck in the "clicked" position or defective), the diagnostic procedure will fail at the throttle step.

As shown in the video, you need to pay VERY CLOSE attention to WHEN and HOW they click based on the lever movement (or throttle movement) - you need a quiet environment to do this.

If it is the clutch micro-switch: review video beginning at 7:37 (min:sec) where the micro-switch location is shown - you will need to loosen single screw of the switch, do a small rotation of switch (not much is available) and re-tighten it. You need to hear the "click" of the switch after a small lever movement otherwise it will keep being hit too early. The wear in the lever pivot bushing is also a factor (as you have said) and may amplify the problem. In most cases, you can rotate the switch just a tiny amount to compensate. In the worst case, I have bent the metal tab of the switch, but this is a bit tricky as there is another switch and metal tab behind (for starter safety interlocks when in gear).

If it is the Throttle micro-switch: cable free play and cable routing is critical. Using a good flashlight, compare video behavior with yours when throttle is fully closed from rest position.

Let us know how it goes...
Share
|Like
__________________
-------------------------------------------------
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
-------------------------------------------------
Think twice before you hit [SUBMIT REPLY] - famous quote by another member:
"The value of this board is not founded on dismissing the ideas of others, but by posting to share our experiences and what we've learned from them."
I get a “page not found” on the link. Time to go searching...
 
#7 ·
Thanks for the reply Alabrew. I have watched the video and read the instructions provided. That's how I found out that the clutch switch is the potential problem. I moved the switch over just a bit and I can hear the clicks but to no avail. I'm still not getting the proper response. I don't know how to check the switch itself to see if it's bad so I'll keep reading and prodding. Thanks again
 
#8 ·
Here is where the switch connectors are. They are Normally Open and close (short) when operated.

When you slowly squeeze the lever you should hear two distinct clicks, one very early in the pull (Cruise cut out) and the second almost with the lever to the grip. If you are hearing the two clicks and it is still not working the switch is bad or the wires are shorted.
 

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#9 ·
Thanks for the reply John. The clutch switch was definitely out of adjustment. I moved it over a bit and now I have the two clicks. I ran the 10 step diagnostic after that but it still fails at the clutch. Per the instructions I have changed up and pulled on the brake lever first and then the clutch. Neither work as far as having the light come on. In fact the light doesn't come on for any of the switches from the clutch on. This would be the clutch, the front brake, the rear brake and the rear wheel. All of those switches can be heard clicking. I have no way of road testing right now as I am waiting for my fuel injectors. When they arrive I will put the bike together enough for a road test and see what happens. I continue to scour through the archives as there is a wealth of information there. If I get it put back together and it works I'm going to run with it. If not I'll keep looking for the answer. I don't want to buy a $100.00 switch if I don't need it or worse don't really know that that's the problem.
Thanks again for the reply and help.
 
#10 ·
OK, time for an update. I finally was able to trace the clutch micro switch to where it plugs in (Used up all of my allotted cuss words for that one). Tested it with the ohmmeter and found it to be bad. Have another on order(would have used more words for the price on that one but I was out). Good news is that the fuel injectors are done and on the way back. Hope to be up and running-with cruise- by sometime next week.

So Voyager.With you and I having the same symptoms on the cruise maybe yours is on the way out too.
 
#14 ·
How do you know it is bad just testing at the connector? If the switch is maladjusted so that it isn’t being actuated, you can’t differentiate that from a bad switch by only measuring continuity at the connector. Are you sure it is clicking and being actuated?
 
#13 ·
I had a similar experience with my 2002 LT. In my case, mine suffered the all too fatal Fuel Rail fire, only I caught it in time before it destroyed my baby. My Throttle Closed Microswitch was melted in the fire. I was not able to find a suitable replacement Microswitch at the time, so I modified a Micro-Micro switch that I had in my supplies of parts. These Microswitches are nothing more than a N.C. contact switch. The adjustment is to have the switch in the "open" state when the throttle is closed. The Clutch Microswitch is wired in series with the same circuit. i hope this helps.

BeemerBoy
 
#15 ·
He was able to hear "both" clicks so he knew it was getting actuated. First one is the cruise cut out switch, second one is the start in gear enable switch.
 
#16 ·
When I first did the listening test I could not hear the first click every time but could always hear the second. I adjusted the switch and could the hear both clicks every time. I then repeated the 10 step procedure per the Mark Neblett print out and still could only get positive results up to step six. I then did the continuity test. The first click(the CC) failed each time and the second click always passed. By the way you do not have to remove any tupperware from the bike to do the test. You just have to remove the switch from it's connecting plug and maybe cut a tie wrap or two to give yourself some slack in the cable for an easier reach.
 
#17 ·
OK. I got the bike back together. Not without some missteps though. Put the injectors in and the gas tank on. I even put the tupperware back on( dummy,dummy, dummy). Fired the bike up only to have gas blowing everywhere out of the injectors. Soooo I took off the tupperware, the gas tank and the fuel rail only to find that I had put the clips that hold the injectors in backwards(Sometimes I just amaze me).
Got it all put back together and fired it up BEFORE I put the tupperware back on. All was good. Went out for a short test ride and to get gas. Bike runs smooth and I do believe that the cruise control is fixed. It's 50 degrees and I had no problems even going over bumps. Time to ride!
 
#18 ·
What all did you have to remove to get to the switch? I just read the Clymer manual and it says to remove the heated grip and such and I can’t imagine that being needed. I am assuming maybe just removing the screws that hold the switch gear sections together and maybe snipping a few zip ties to loosen wires, but I haven’t tried to get into it yet. Did you need to remove the bar covers on the left?
 
#19 ·
Don't have to remove the grips. Remove the bar covers on the left side and the screws so you can take apart the housing and get to the switch.(be careful with this as I wound up with an extra screw when I was done and have no idea where it goes:smile:) I would leave the switch in there until you're ready to make the swap. There are two cables that need to be unplugged. One on the left and one on the right side of the forks. Because of the lack of room to work you might have to consider removing some tupperware. A real PITA unless you have tiny hands. There also seems to be an over abundance of cable ties up there. I did not try to duplicate where they were when I reassembled. Hard part is done. Plug in the two plugs and reroute the cables. Replace the switch, adjust and check it with the instructions here on the forum to make sure it's working- Then tie it down.(sorry I can't find my copy of the procedure) Since replacing the switch I have had 0 problems. 35 degrees or 75 degrees, bumps or smooth roads it works. Very happy with the results. Hope this helps.
 
#20 ·
Thanks. I am hoping my switch is OK and just loose, but we shall see. Looks like a new one is the better part of $100. Sheesh. I may look for an aftermarket switch that I can just solder into the existing wiring. I would think this would be a fairly common micro switch, but then BMW does stand for Bikes Made Weird so who knows? :grin:
 
#22 ·
Did your brother also recommend a switch? Preferably one readily available through DigiKey or Mouser? :grin:
 
#23 ·
I debated starting a new thread, but decided more logical just to carry on here since the problem is the same.

I started taking the left controls apart today and got stuck quickly. Since I am in no hurry given the quarantine and cool weather, I decided to check in here before pulling too hard and breaking some plastic.

I removed all of the screws I can see, but still can’t get the radio operating panel loose. For anyone that has the REPROM, I am looking at the section titled “Removing left multifunction switch and radio remote control.” I have removed the two screws under the panel labeled as #1 in the REPROM figure. I also removed screw #5 from underneath and screw #4 that comes in from the front just above the clutch lever. I got the plastic cover removed that is held on my screw #5 and goes above the “T” shaped part that screws #1 go through, but I can’t get anything else off. The radio operating panel still feels attached at the end between my finger and the emergency light switch button. And I can’t for the life of me find the screws labeled #2 and #3 in the REPROM figure. I even removed the screw between the grip and the housing which I suspect is unnecessary, but I was trying to remove everything that might be causing trouble.

Can someone point me in the right direction? It looks like there is a seam where the “T” shape part underneath the radio panel should come out of the main part of the panel, but mine does not, at least not with just pulling with my fingers. I have not tried to pry anything not knowing what may be held with clips vs. those two screws I can’t find. Here are some pictures as to where I am.
 

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#24 ·
That "T" should pop off then you can get to the screw for the front cover and the radio front cover will pop off then you can access the screw under it. You really have to push it to get it off.
 

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#25 · (Edited)
Thanks, John. The diagram you attached is the same one I am looking at. I saw that it showed the T being a separate piece from the radio control panel, but it didn’t want to separate and I was hesitate to reef on it too hard for fear of breaking an expensive part that probably is not easily found. So, you are saying that screw number 2 will be visible once the T section is removed?

Is the T pulled towards the front of the LT to disengage it from the radio control panel?
 
#26 · (Edited)
Well, I reefed on it a little and wiggled it side to side and up and down and it did not budge. I even tried to wedge a screw driver in the seam and twist it and that just deformed the plastic. It almost looks and feels like it is glued in there or has a screw, but I see no visible screws.

Just to be sure, It is the first seam up from where the two screws attach the T that should separate, correct? The lower seam in my attached picture. There are three pieces with two seams, but it appears that the second seam, the one at the top of my attached picture, is the one that only separates after screw #2 or #3 has been removed.

Do you have any pictures of these pieces disassembled? I would like to see what holds that T piece into the middle piece (the 1/2” wide or so pieced between the two seams). Is it just a friction fit? Are there locking tabs? RTV sealant?

I can’t believe this is presenting so much headache as I thought this was going to be an easy peasy job. :grin:

EDIT: my picture was rotated 90 CCW when it was attached so “bottom” above means “right side” and “top” is “left side. Or mentally rotate it 90 CW and top and bottom make sense again.
 

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#27 ·
Well, I broke loose the T shaped piece ... literally. I looked at the parts fiche and it appeared to show a tab coming from the middle part of the assembly, but I really could not see enough to know exactly which way it locked. So, I pried on it hard and “snap” apart it came in two pieces having pulled the locking tab with it.

I checked the switches and it appears that it was simply a loose screw. The bottom switch was moving as the clutch was actuated. I pulled the screw out and lowered the switches to look them over and they looked fine with no obvious distress and seemed to switch just fine so I put them back in and snugged up the screw as much as I dared for such a small screw. I ran the diagnostic three times and it passed all three times. Then again, the last day riding home it had worked fine so that may not be a good test. Time will tell if I was successful. I thought at first that the switch wasn’t working as I pulled the clutch and the light changed state and I released the clutch and it changed back (I forget if it goes on-off-on or off-on-off, but it did what it was supposed to do. I tried it a second time and nothing, but when I went to the rear brake that worked. I tried this twice and decided that apparently you only get one shot at each switch as you go through the procedure. So, I ran it a couple more times and everything worked as it should every time. So, until I get some miles in cold weather again, I won’t know if the problem was a loose screw or if the switch itself is bad internally and quits working in cold weather.

I thought I might not need to try to repair the locking tab as the T piece slides pretty snugly into the middle section, however, after tightening the screws I see why BMW designed it that way. The radio panel moves around a lot more than it did before. It pulls away from the T piece a 1/16” or so and when you press the controls, it flexes back where it is supposed to be held and thus makes the control feel pretty spongy. So, I took it back off and will try to cement the tab back onto the middle plastic piece. It appears there is plenty of clearance under the tab where it broke to add a small piece of sheet ABS stock as a splice. I still have tons of ABS from the sheet I bought to repair the mirrors and the bar covers, so I will give that a try tomorrow.
 

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#28 ·
Oh, one other thing. I removed screw #2 as shown in the diagram John posted earlier and tried to remove the radio switch panel, but it still did not want to come off easily. I was curious to see how all that went together, but since I had not need to remove that and I didn’t want to break another plastic part, I decided to leave it alone and put the screw back in. BMW should makes the simplest things hard to work on.
 
#29 ·
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I tried it a second time and nothing, but when I went to the rear brake that worked. I tried this twice and decided that apparently you only get one shot at each switch as you go through the procedure. So, I ran it a couple more times and everything worked as it should every time. So, until I get some miles in cold weather again, I won’t know if the problem was a loose screw or if the switch itself is bad internally and quits working in cold weather.
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When you are in Cruise-control diagnostic mode (with ignition ON), it is correct to assume you have only 1 shot at each switch. A fail step at any of them will not allow you to proceed of finish the diagnostic - you would need to start all over again with a new ignition ON cycle.

BUT, you do have another simple "listening" check you can do AS MANY TIMES as you want with ignition OFF. As shown in my YouTube video, in a quiet place with no surronding noises, you listen with repetitive motion (pull / release) of the clutch lever to about 30% of its total travel:
- the micro-switch need to be "clicking" in a consistent manner at 10 to 20% of the lever travel EVERYTIME.

- if "click" it is too early (near end of released posiiton) it will cause it sometimes not to fully release (wind, friction , vibration...).

- as you found out temperature will play a role in expansion / contraction of various materials involved (switch , lever...) so you need a margin of error. Hence a release at last 5% of travel at 70 F, might not work at 40 F.

- to acheieve a proper "click" position that is NOT too early, your only options are: a very small free play to rotate teh switch and tighten again -OR- bending the metal tab somewhat but than can be very tricky to achieve proper result.

IMPORTANT: for the cruise diagnostic there is no point to pull beyond 30% of the Clutch lever travel as you will encounter another "click" that may confuse your troubleshooting. There is a 2nd micro-switch behind the 1st one that is releated to the starter safety interlock: this 2nd switch will click / release about half way of total clutch travel.
 
#30 ·
Thanks, Sailor, that was my guess after running it twice and getting only one shot at the clutch check. My workshop is heated to 60 degrees, which is above the problem temp I was seeing, but after tightening the switch screw, it was taking a good 1/4” of lever travel to click the switch and it was consistent every time. Since my problem generally occurs at about 50 degrees and below, I need to get out for a ride to see how it works. I am somewhat confident it was the loose screw letting the switch move/rotate, but not 100% confident. It still could be an internal issue with the switch that manifests only at cold temps.
 
#32 ·
I’ve had fairly good results thus far with my ABS repairs so I will give that a shot first. My LT isn’t worth making a lot more investment in now. Just filling the tank adds 10% to its value! :grin:
 
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#34 ·
I have been having the intermittent Cruise Control problem on my 99LT. Went through the diagnostic process multiple times and finally it failed at the clutch lever. When I listened carefully to the switch, what I found was that I could hear the switch click as I moved the clutch lever, but upon repeated inspection it would occasionally not activate the switch. The clutch lever has worn over the years (45k miles) so that it moves up and down a bit. The place where the activation lever hits the switch changes depending on the position of the clutch lever (up/down).

I cleaned off the clutch lever where it activates the switch with a Qtip soaked with some WD40 (dust and dirt there), then I tightened the attachment screw about a half turn. I also found that if I adjusted the clutch lever dial and moved the clutch lever out one setting that this changed how the clutch lever activated the switch. Now it seems to activate the switch consistently. Took it out for a spin and it seems to work now, but that said, it will take a long trip to prove that I have actually solved the problem.

Bob
 
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