Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 31 Old Nov 2nd, 2019, 8:15 pm Thread Starter
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Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

Sadly they are not that many of them around and their value hit rock bottom so I'm not going to spend my time in R&D and much less into producing them..

but for as "UGly" as this look they work years ahead of anything else I have tried


I'm to tired tonight to make a write up but you are more than welcome to look at the Pictures



The "Tower" is from a snowboline with some freedom of adjustment (2" I think) but you also need upper and lower "Fatbike" clamps (28.6mm) plus a handmade adapter plate since the lower clamps happened to land on the exact on the same spot as the stock ones..



Just for show this is all the way forward, absolutely pointless on the LT, I chose the adjustable because is very difficult to estimate exact how something is going to work but I will say a 6" fix tower will do for most riders (cheaper and much nicer looking)


i will try to write a more proper explanation when i'm less tired..

Ps: if anybody around minneapolis wants to ride the bike they are more than welcome..
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Last edited by Ricardo Kuhn; Nov 2nd, 2019 at 8:23 pm.
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post #2 of 31 Old Nov 3rd, 2019, 9:43 am
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

Intriguing...

Ken
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'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
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post #3 of 31 Old Nov 3rd, 2019, 10:44 am Thread Starter
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

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Originally Posted by meese View Post
Intriguing...
with a system like this you can tune the location of the grips to at least 95% riders safistactions

the stock bars can not really be tuned, unless you get a torch and bend the tubes on the bars to change the three axis of the grip orientation..

something kind of like this but since the pivot point of the bars on the LT is almost 10 inches away whatever change you do compromises every other axis..

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post #4 of 31 Old Nov 3rd, 2019, 4:16 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

I took a tiny ride to Home depot to get more self vulcanizing tape (Notice the wrapping on the LT wire loom was all disintegrated, so now is all "Rubberize".

I stop five times to re adjust the settings (seating on the bike, engine running, one minute max) and not the grips are exactly where I want them to be..


Notice my trusty Bondhus tools at the ready, by tomorrow all the bolts will be Torx's since is much better system


Night and day difference.

plus they are far more rigid (even at full extension, what clamp is better than I spect it) so you feel more connected to the bike (not like televers ever tell you anything anyway)


Ps: somebody ask me if the starship enterprise glove box needs to be taking off for the bars to work...??


the answer..

Not at all, I just took it because i was making a instrument platform but i have not put it back on, they will fit just fine (without my funky platform.)..

I found out the clamp work better for me angles very low, about 2 centimeters IN with the bars turn forward a little more than usual, my wrist, elbows and shoulders are super happy now..
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post #5 of 31 Old Nov 3rd, 2019, 9:31 pm
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

Thatís extreme alright.
I find the stock bars fit me just perfect.


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----------------------------------------------------
BMW K1200LT 2007
BMW K1200R: "Drophammer" 2006
BMW R1200GS 2008
BMW K1200S 2007
Suzuki DR-Z400E 2000
Sachs MadAss FY125-20
BMW R1200R 2009 (in my stable, thinking about it...)


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post #6 of 31 Old Nov 4th, 2019, 5:32 am Thread Starter
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

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Originally Posted by mondrage View Post
That’s extreme alright.
I find the stock bars fit me just perfect.
great for you..

Let me guess, about 5.9-5.11" with narrow shoulders..??

Personally I experience severe pain in my shoulders for the first time in 30 years riding a motorcycle so I had to change the grip angle and over all location, i had no other choice..

6.2" long torso, shorter legs than usual for my biotype (33") and 2" longer arms than average for my height..

also really wide shoulders and starting or arthritis symptoms

Last edited by Ricardo Kuhn; Nov 4th, 2019 at 5:43 am.
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post #7 of 31 Old Nov 4th, 2019, 7:12 am
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

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Originally Posted by Ricardo Kuhn View Post
great for you..

Let me guess, about 5.9-5.11" with narrow shoulders..??

Personally I experience severe pain in my shoulders for the first time in 30 years riding a motorcycle so I had to change the grip angle and over all location, i had no other choice..

6.2" long torso, shorter legs than usual for my biotype (33") and 2" longer arms than average for my height..

also really wide shoulders and starting or arthritis symptoms
I am 6’, 230 lbs, moderately wide shoulders (not sure what the real standard is here) and probably close to average proportions with 32” inseam and not sure arm length.

I would get pain between my shoulder blades on longer LT riding days and thought it was just older age (will be 60 soon and got the LT when I was 47). I don’t recall having that issue on my Kawasaki Voyager, then then I had that from age 27 to 44 so an entirely different age range. However, last winter, after a bear attacked my wife’s seat, I decided to use the insurance money towards an RDL rather than just a stock replacement. I also bought the rider backrest. Even though I have a couple of issues with pressure points in the Russell seat, the addition of the backrest has pretty much eliminated my shoulder pain. So, I don’t think the issue with me was ever the bar position, but was a back posture issue.

Obviously, everyone is different and may have different causes for their aches and pains. However, if your bar work is not successful, I would give consideration to adding a backrest. The backrest makes getting on and off the bike a much bigger PITA, but it sure makes the long riding days much easier on the back and shoulders. And my wife likes the storage pouch even though it is a little tight in between us given that we aren’t as skinny as we once were.

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1976 Kawasaki KH400
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post #8 of 31 Old Nov 4th, 2019, 9:25 am
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

I would be concerned that this would render the bike technically unroadworthy. If you were to have an accident and injure someone else or yourself I think they would wipe your insurance.
You also have three points of attachment even before you get to the black riser bracket and those three points have a lot of leverage acting against them. Have you thought about the potential for collapse at these attachment points due to vibration and torque.
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post #9 of 31 Old Nov 4th, 2019, 10:30 am Thread Starter
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

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I would be concerned that this would render the bike technically unroadworthy. If you were to have an accident and injure someone else or yourself I think they would wipe your insurance.
You also have three points of attachment even before you get to the black riser bracket and those three points have a lot of leverage acting against them. Have you thought about the potential for collapse at these attachment points due to vibration and torque.
Sure now I'm worried the Pod cast upper triple clamp is going to get rip off the bike by the added leverage of the new mount

I stock form the OEM bars are extremely malleable and will bend and deform under very small loads..

all the parts I'm using are "Motocross" rated or even more intense "Snowmobile" proven have you ever ridden one..? they are massive and the loads multiplied to a insane amount..

Plus the plate I made is from 7075, So no I don't see them failing..

Then again they are two kind of riders (people) the ones that worry about the safety margins and the crash test dummies like me that are ready to deal with the consequences.. (Two SAS Avoidance & aggressive riding training certificates)

if you want to contemplate "Sketchy" and Uncertain don't try one of this Fulton surface-to-air recovery system..

The things that use to worry in life, was to be the last of a group of six to be airlifted because the ballon pinpoint our position from miles away and it takes a few minutes for each member to get safety into the plane..



I have done three extractions with this method myself, if I crash my bike that bad, i'm just worry if I'm okay and then get another bike..

he&& I Land luge for 30 years just for fun..

I hand made this mount in 2009 and I'm still here and the bike is just fine..
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Last edited by Ricardo Kuhn; Nov 4th, 2019 at 11:20 am.
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post #10 of 31 Old Nov 4th, 2019, 5:30 pm
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

I wasn't talking about the actual snow mobile mount as the point of potential failure. I was talking about that mount being a massive lever acting on the bolts holding it in place.
All I can say is ve con Dios and all the best.
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post #11 of 31 Old Nov 4th, 2019, 6:31 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

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I wasn't talking about the actual snow mobile mount as the point of potential failure. I was talking about that mount being a massive lever acting on the bolts holding it in place.
All I can say is ve con Dios and all the best.
The current Bolts are 12.2 grade and protrude all the way to the bottom of the clamp (2" long), but you are right the tower is so much stiffer than the flimsy steel bars the upper clamp is going to get WAY more loaded, they again is a heavy street bike not a world class enduro racer (Almost no upper body weight transfer to the grips compared to other types of bikes)..

Don't take me wrong I take my products very seriously to the point i ditch ideas like this because they will "Rotate" under load, plus they Swing the "Wrong way" but look at the ROX risers, they are a "Diluted copy" of mine (that I post on forums since 1997, well the GS List)..

this just proof that people just need something that "Moves" even if is the wrong way..
Low and forward and High and close so they can really fit a gamut of rides of different heights..




something more like this but the design was way to clumsy, weak and never pursue it..



I only use that Radius arch on my GPS MOunts, (three years before the ROX risers were release) and for that they work extremely well..


That end up becoming this, Better just look at the GALLERIES since they are so many possible permutations..

And I repite this LT clamps will never be produce, i'm just using them as a test mule of what is possible to accomplish mostly for my own benefit but also for the community in general..
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post #12 of 31 Old Nov 5th, 2019, 5:19 am
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

I can see that you have gone to an impressive amount detail in your planning. It would be really interesting to see a video of things like how you sit on the bike and perhaps how it handles, any plans to do that?
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post #13 of 31 Old Nov 5th, 2019, 8:42 am Thread Starter
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

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I can see that you have gone to an impressive amount detail in your planning. It would be really interesting to see a video of things like how you sit on the bike and perhaps how it handles, any plans to do that?
I'm totally Alone in the new city on minneapolis (getting Divorce you know)


But again that is a great idea..

More than anything I will like another LT rider to tried and give a unbiased impresion, i did select the exact bars according the distance in between my shoulders blades but all and all other size rider can feel the difference just by seating and obviously riding

Here is what i see as a problem on the stock bars..
ps: I do have a Masters in Dynamic Ergonomics and Biomechanics from a fancy pants university_

The OEM bars basically have very aggressive bends (down swept and more than anything back swept) so the wrist gets forced into a unnatural angle

Ideally the wrist need to be closer to the neutral point aka STRAIGHT (Remember when the bars are rotated the bend on you grips get exacerbated)



The human body is very wise and tries to naturally compensate for awkward postures, the way to do that is to keep the fore arm straight in relationship to the wrist, sadly the end result is that the elbow is prone to move "Inwards"to keep the wrist happy, you know close to your torzo, ergo you end up steering the bike with your shoulders and rotation of the spine to achieve the required range of movement.

I try to find somebody to help me out with the video filming..
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post #14 of 31 Old Nov 5th, 2019, 3:41 pm
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

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Originally Posted by Ricardo Kuhn View Post
I do have a Masters in Dynamic Ergonomics and Biomechanics from a fancy pants university
I took my long distance bike (K1200GT) to my chiropractor and had her give me suggestions. With some slight adjustments to the bars/pegs/backrest, it became comfortable enough to easily crank out multiple thousand-mile days.

In fact, itís more comfortable over long distances than my wifeís car...

Wish I was closer, as Iíd love to take your LT for a test ride, and help out with filming.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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post #15 of 31 Old Nov 6th, 2019, 8:50 am Thread Starter
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

Is much to cold in Minneapolis for the roads to give consistent grip (30's) but I found a very welcome side effect

I have been a "Counter steer'er" for more than 30 years but the Lt was to vague to be pushed that way..

Well no is NOT, the handling also improve dramatically, sure it will never a sport bike, but now it respond when you tosh her around..

So much more fun..
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post #16 of 31 Old Nov 6th, 2019, 9:26 am
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

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Is much to cold in Minneapolis for the roads to give consistent grip (30's) but I found a very welcome side effect

I have been a "Counter steer'er" for more than 30 years but the Lt was to vague to be pushed that way..

Well no is NOT, the handling also improve dramatically, sure it will never a sport bike, but now it respond when you tosh her around..

So much more fun..
Every motorcycle is steered by countersteering. It is the only way to steer a motorcycle. The only exception would be if you used wide and flat tires so that the bike steered like a car and could not lean.

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post #17 of 31 Old Nov 6th, 2019, 5:17 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

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Every motorcycle is steered by countersteering. It is the only way to steer a motorcycle. The only exception would be if you used wide and flat tires so that the bike steered like a car and could not lean.
Sorry you are RIGHT Again...

my mistake I never clarified, I was referring more to the "Top Gun" Tom Cruise (Aggressive combat maneuver) counter steer when you NEVER push on the bars (well at slow speeds I do ) but AGGRESSIVELY PULL on the grip (Like a Conscious act, not just muscle memory to change direccion in a Hurry..

This morning I got lost a few times and end up doing the "Four loops" of a overpass to get back to the exact road I was going (stupid GPS plays tricks on me sometimes) and I was having a ton of fun leaning the bike until the center stand start to drag, I will guess I was about 4"-5" inches from my hand touching the ground, but since they were all right handers I did not have a way to try.,.

On the Throttle in Second or 3th the whole time and about 500rpm down from redline, she can move pretty quick

The reason why I don't have the Stinger install, because i need to figure out a mount for one of my big tablets (not as big as this 12.2" but big)




The road surface grip was great even if the temperature was a little low for doing silly motorcycle stuff..

Last edited by Ricardo Kuhn; Nov 6th, 2019 at 5:22 pm.
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post #18 of 31 Old Nov 6th, 2019, 5:50 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

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I took my long distance bike (K1200GT) to my chiropractor and had her give me suggestions. With some slight adjustments to the bars/pegs/backrest, it became comfortable enough to easily crank out multiple thousand-mile days.

In fact, itís more comfortable over long distances than my wifeís car...

Wish I was closer, as Iíd love to take your LT for a test ride, and help out with filming.
The science of Ergonomics fascinate me, but not the seating on a desk type but the optimal use of "Human power" specially H.P.V since the data logging is really advance and the geeks are ultra intense..(The difference can be measure in watt/hours) too

I million years ago (2002,2003 i don't remember by now) I got a call about 10 at night from a famous contender for the Iron bull rally (record holder at the time) looking for extra advantages.

he tell me "I can be at you house by 6am"

wait where are you coming from..?? "Portland" (to my studio in san francisco)

okay come on in

Setting his contact point was easy, the bike was dial that way, but his Cockpit was a royal mess, so we spend the whole day making brackets and moving pods and extending wires around and divide the instruments in four "Zones" (just like a plane cockpit) about 7 months later I get a email from him telling me he improve his time by 1:56 minutes and felt a lot less tired at the end..

I call that a win-win

I love the topic so much I got two masters on the same subject (no sadly no way to connect them and get a PHD)

bring the question in, I love to help with what I can, did it for bicycles at a tour de france level for many years, done the exact same thing for motorcycles since 1998 or so (thanks to the internet, I got to help a ton of people I never meet )

Ps: I have a design for the KT type bar mounts that will melt you brain, working on it as we speak to see if is a viable product (you gals and guys are much to worried about "Aesthetics" and radical approaches something require complex components that can get a little bulky in a hurry (need to respect material wall thickness, is not two ways about it..

plus Titanium is a pain to work with and cost way to much money just to make slimmer parts.
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post #19 of 31 Old Nov 7th, 2019, 1:10 am
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

My LD Rally bike is also set up for extreme competition. Conserving energy through efficiency is a game changer, and pretty much required when running at the top of the field in any such event.

I look forward to seeing what else you can come up with.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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post #20 of 31 Old Nov 7th, 2019, 7:15 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

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My LD Rally bike is also set up for extreme competition. Conserving energy through efficiency is a game changer, and pretty much required when running at the top of the field in any such event.
I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the LD rally...

In the good old days I travel to the dakar (africa and sur America) a few times and also help some riders before hand on their setups..

And Just by a miracle (My almost wife at the time was Russian and hyper pretty) I gotta visit the Kamaz R&D facility and I even got to ride on two of the race trucks

Wow those things are harst, hot, loud and horrible, but I finally learn part of the old Russian secret, they don't fix things with equipment improvements but with Tougher Humans in this case most of the crew are old Ex-Spetsnaz aka the toughest MOFO's ever..

But I did get the opportunity to share ideas with cockpit crew and the drivers and I like to think some improvements where made (the R&D crew is extremely well educated and experiences in cutting edge reliability) and actually very open minded to thinks that "make sense" (the variability of parameters always presents as a compromise but with some simple adjustments big improvements can be made)

Just imagine trying to monitors seven different instruments "Road maps for the Navigator" from almost a meter away, when the cabin is full of dust and you can barely reach the controls to change parameter, plus all the instruments were mounted solid to the chassis-cab that provides almost no suspension for the riders environments

we even test old school "Cigarette boat floating harnesses" connected to the roll bars to mitigate the impacts on the legs and spine, just to make a point some of the drivers get detached retinas and silly illness like that from the lack of "Creature comforts"

I may be a Motorcycle freak, but I find the Dakar trucks the most impressive in terms of logistic-choreography-planning and just plain punishment (Trust me I have done a ton of very STUPID stuff, riding on one of those trucks ranks at the very top

Quote:

I look forward to seeing what else you can come up with.
in 2015 I broke my spine in six places, so in a way i kind of abandon motorcycles (To not get exited about something i can not do 100% anymore..

So i end up working working with some of my doctors to improve their setups..

amazing how the "Dye in the wool" setups are so inefficient for some reason, for example the doctor that perform my "Ablation Injections" (to mitigate the nerve pain in my spine) had his monitors (10 of them) 3 meters away from the operating table, and had to turn and walk more than 360 steps (i count them when I was face down on the table) in the course of a half a hour operation (Incredibly careful surgent)

Also his operating room had beautyful windows and in certain times of the day the quality of the image on the monitors was degrades by shadows and reflexions, just silly details...

But man the bureaucracy of Hospitals is very intense I even had to "name drop" the Stanford deggre so they start to trust me (I'm very difficult to understand in every language, since I have heavy learning disabilities but they also give me a edge on visual, spatial relationship and all other kind of fun stuff, i will not change it for anything

Took more than a year to convince the administrators but after the space was rearrange he gain about a 30% gain in proficiency and also was able to work more hours per week (something he really want to do) and ride his bicycle to work everyday (something he was not able to do before do to the tiredness of his lower extremities

fascinating what a fresh perspective can do in such a "Square/regulated" environment..

Biomechanics is actually not that different from a Pistons, valves, sockets and actuators, after all bodys are machine tailor made for a specific task and the brain (of the developer) is the interface to make the "Tools" more efficient..
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post #21 of 31 Old Nov 7th, 2019, 10:50 pm
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

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Originally Posted by Ricardo Kuhn View Post
I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the LD rally...
It's a scavenger hunt, where you ride around the country looking for specific locations within a fixed time period. The more locations your can get to, the better your score. Some rallies are 24 hours long, some are 3-5 days, and the Iron Butt Rally is 11 days and roughly 10,000-13,000 miles.

If you have some time to kill, check out these threads:

How to safely and successfully ride 1,000 miles in 24 hours or less

Ken Meese in IBR

Ken Meese is a machine

2019 Iron Butt Rally

2019 Iron Butt Rally Megathread

Heck, it's only 1,700 miles and 24 hours from Portland to Minnesota. That's almost tempting enough to drop in just to buy you a beverage of your choice and talk bikes and hyper-sports and ergonomics and crazy possibilities...

Ken
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'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
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post #22 of 31 Old Yesterday, 2:56 am Thread Starter
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

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It's a scavenger hunt, where you ride around the country looking for specific locations within a fixed time period. The more locations your can get to, the better your score. Some rallies are 24 hours long, some are 3-5 days, and the Iron Butt Rally is 11 days and roughly 10,000-13,000 miles.

If you have some time to kill, check out these threads:

How to safely and successfully ride 1,000 miles in 24 hours or less

Ken Meese in IBR

Ken Meese is a machine

2019 Iron Butt Rally

2019 Iron Butt Rally Megathread
How fun.. Thanks for the links..

Quote:
Heck, it's only 1,700 miles and 24 hours from Portland to Minnesota. That's almost tempting enough to drop in just to buy you a beverage of your choice and talk bikes and hyper-sports and ergonomics and crazy possibilities...
My continental crossing days are over after breaking my back, maybe when i get mi sidecar project going

for a wile I had the perfect partner in crime a awesome and super german racer girlfriend that we partner on a full "Gumball rally" adventures

Jen is far better at "Anything" that I'm and we my namage to get to Whistler in BC canada from san francisco in less than 18hours (cops give breaks fair easier to hot chicks riding motorcycles)

At one point she was lider at the electric bike world cup until her battery pack Explode in a very violent matter and she just walk away from the whole thing


But he the Internet still much faster than any bike ever made..
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post #23 of 31 Old Yesterday, 3:53 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

I drop the Lt today thanks to the "False" send of Kick stand (I'm, sure I'm not the first one that suffer from the design defect, wirk, whatever)

to my surprise even with my really mess up back and really weak body (I need to walk with a Walker) it was super easy to lift (I lift GS's at least a thousand times (seriously i will do it just for fun to show people how easy it is to lift them)

but I had big issues with my 950's and 640's heavy top end makes all the difference..

I guess the K engine been lay down is kind of similar as the boxers in terms of mass centralization..

i'm liking this bike more and more..
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post #24 of 31 Old Yesterday, 5:48 pm
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

So what happened? You forgot that you hadn't put the kick stand down ?
The first thing I do before getting off is actually look down and see that I have deployed the kick stand properly.
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post #25 of 31 Old Yesterday, 6:16 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

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Originally Posted by Wazza View Post
So what happened? You forgot that you hadn't put the kick stand down ?
The first thing I do before getting off is actually look down and see that I have deployed the kick stand properly.
In every bike I ever own, (about 25 or so, plus the hundred I work on over the years) you "Initiate" the kickstand and that is all you need to know, the spring will take care of the rest..

I did notice the strange "Feature" right when I got the bike but this time I just Forgot, when I get a roof over the motorcycles and a lift I take it apart and figure a "Ones and for all" fix to such a silly trade....
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post #26 of 31 Old Yesterday, 10:06 pm
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

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Originally Posted by Ricardo Kuhn View Post
In every bike I ever own, (about 25 or so, plus the hundred I work on over the years) you "Initiate" the kickstand and that is all you need to know, the spring will take care of the rest..

I did notice the strange "Feature" right when I got the bike but this time I just Forgot, when I get a roof over the motorcycles and a lift I take it apart and figure a "Ones and for all" fix to such a silly trade....
Have you thought about servicing the side stand, and the center stand. I think it's something that a lot of us forget about when it comes to servicing. I was having the opposite problem where I would get on the bike and kick the stand backwards to get going and I suddenly noticed that the stand wasn't returning to the up position. I lubricated the stand and it fixed that problem.
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post #27 of 31 Old Today, 5:45 am Thread Starter
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

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Originally Posted by Wazza View Post
Have you thought about servicing the side stand, and the center stand. I think it's something that a lot of us forget about when it comes to servicing. I was having the opposite problem where I would get on the bike and kick the stand backwards to get going and I suddenly noticed that the stand wasn't returning to the up position. I lubricated the stand and it fixed that problem.
Sure I assume that is the case

on my GS's i need to align the "Eyes" on the center stand at least once a year if not more because I always take off from the center stand plus I change direction of the bikes using the center stand (one leg at the time)

I just don't feel like doing in it on the freezing street pavement..
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post #28 of 31 Old Today, 7:42 am
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

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Originally Posted by Ricardo Kuhn View Post
Sure I assume that is the case

on my GS's i need to align the "Eyes" on the center stand at least once a year if not more because I always take off from the center stand plus I change direction of the bikes using the center stand (one leg at the time)

I just don't feel like doing in it on the freezing street pavement..
You use the center stand to help change direction while riding ? Sounds like a good way to end up looking at the sky all of a sudden.
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post #29 of 31 Old Today, 9:13 am Thread Starter
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

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You use the center stand to help change direction while riding ? Sounds like a good way to end up looking at the sky all of a sudden.
Man, I did it again...

Nope I used the center stand to "walk" the bike to move it closer to a wall or away from a car then I park it (san francisco tight parking you know)

I also use it to do 180 and point the bike the other way, is actually really easy, just not that great for hot pavement, but on cement is totally harmless, useful trick when you live in such a grounded city

And also something to unseat stubborn bead on tires, the Kickstand is to weak, ask me how i know
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post #30 of 31 Old Today, 5:43 pm
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

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Originally Posted by Ricardo Kuhn View Post
Man, I did it again...

Nope I used the center stand to "walk" the bike to move it closer to a wall or away from a car then I park it (san francisco tight parking you know)

I also use it to do 180 and point the bike the other way, is actually really easy, just not that great for hot pavement, but on cement is totally harmless, useful trick when you live in such a grounded city

And also something to unseat stubborn bead on tires, the Kickstand is to weak, ask me how i know
Oh ha ha. I had visions in my head of you some how pushing the stand down while going into a corner a bit like putting a paddle into the water while canoeing to make a turn.
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post #31 of 31 Unread Today, 6:29 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Extreme approach to hand position on the K12LT

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I was privileged to watch the video of Mondrage on the GS 2 up watching his LT ridden by a buddy on that nasty road. I think it was a helmet mount camera by the moving views but it was a very rough road and it was wide too. Whatever was on that road was taking the best path left, right or center and the LT seemed to be handling it well. Granted, roads like that will wear quickly on moving components but it was fun to watch and thank you Mondrage for posting that video on the face book. Stalled trucks, bicycles, cows etc along with a very bumpy rough road with large stones and pot holes in it. Makes me appreciate the sand paper roads i ride here in the US. It was a very bumpy ride by the video on the GS.
Well have a seeing en Espanol

"No es la flecha, si no el indio"

"Is not the Arrow is the Indian"

A gifted rider can do marvelous things pretty much on anything, I have seeing goldwings and specially Valkyries (Just as heavy but with less crap) riding fire roads and easy single tracks in prudhoe bay that you will have a hard time keeping up on anything if you are not to good, same with harley (many of those guys were dirt track racers, they can teach you a lesson or two)

Then again a 900 pound bike is going to get harm regardless, specially the cast aluminum pieces are not design for that kind of pounding (remember the final drive is pretty much the same as the 600 something pound RT/RS/R/Gs

i'm not saying don't do it

But trust me don't bring your Nine inch hand held grinder to cut delicate flowers, sure you can do it but will not more than 10 % the fun..

I like to think I push the limits of the paralever/telelever architecture and is just not there to compete with chain driven bikes (with a much closer center of mass)

For example I can tell you even with Penske shocks (That make regular Ohlins feel like pogo stick's set up by stig petersen himself) the GS will take the FIRST of a Woop seccion just fine, that it requires more than second to be back in position to take the second Jolt, but sadly One second is about NINE Woops to late, trust me it hurt like [email protected]@ and that is if you don't fall on your face.

Not even the HP2 (The OEM FOurnales air shock will BLOW UP after 10 consecutive woops, ask me how I know) not even the HPN can deal with repetitive mini humps, even if the HPN can take pretty much any single "Motocross jump you put in front of it..

My mentor (and many others too) Jimmy lewis doing "Destruction testing" on the million dollar HPN 900RR in Spain a zillion years ago..


Those were 100/120 feet long jumps, something landing on flat (really bad idea) and the bike never fail, well full 4130 chromoly frame, 6061 turned swingarm (not cast aluminum)

Last edited by Ricardo Kuhn; Today at 6:36 pm.
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