K1200LT 2002 brake handle feel - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 11 Old Sep 14th, 2019, 9:53 pm Thread Starter
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K1200LT 2002 brake handle feel

I have never ridden an 02 or newer or done a Spiegler upgrade on one and I failed to test the handles and pedal before beginning the procedure so I have no baseline on what to expect.

From those of you with wizzy brakes, when the bike is shut off with key off, do you have what would be considered a " normal" feeling brake lever that builds and holds pressure or does it squish almost to the handle. I have pumped a lot of fluid through but I still have a handle that squishes almost to the bar. When I open the control bleed valve, it goes the rest of the way to the handle. Is this normal or is something wrong. I don't know what normal is.


Also, I can't seem to get any fluid to pump through the rear circuit to the control bleeder. Any ideas on that?

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #2 of 11 Old Sep 14th, 2019, 10:59 pm
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Re: K1200LT 2002 brake handle feel

All bets are off when the key is off. Normal then could be nothing. Do you realize you have four individual circuits? Two wheel and two control. The control go from the lever or pedal to the ABS unit and the wheel circuits go from the ABS unit to the wheels. Thus there are 4 reservoirs. Do some searching on the forum and you will find how to bleed this mess. The ABS module has 6 bleed nipples three for each end and a specific sequence. A manual will help, Clymers or the OEM DVD.

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post #3 of 11 Old Sep 15th, 2019, 6:27 am
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Re: K1200LT 2002 brake handle feel

You should be bleeding the wheel circuits with the key on. The ABS circuits with the key off. The 2002 servo ABS has only 4 bleed ports.
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post #4 of 11 Old Sep 15th, 2019, 6:53 am Thread Starter
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Re: K1200LT 2002 brake handle feel

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You should be bleeding the wheel circuits with the key on. The ABS circuits with the key off. The 2002 servo ABS has only 4 bleed ports.
Yes, I know that but I am doing the control circuits first and am not able to get a good handle. It compresses easily to about 1/4 inch from the bar. If I open the ctl bleed valve, it goes the rest of the way to the bar. Do the wheel circuits need to have fluid in them to get a good normal handle or is that the way the I-ABS handle feels with the key off. Never had or have done the I-abs bleed before. Didn't check handles and pedals before I started. I made assumptions that they would feel about the same as my 01 but with the servo assist.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #5 of 11 Old Sep 15th, 2019, 8:12 am
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Re: K1200LT 2002 brake handle feel

I would think you need fluid in the entire system with no air to get a firm grip or pedal. My 2008 LT with the key off has a firm handle.

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post #6 of 11 Old Sep 15th, 2019, 8:15 am Thread Starter
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Re: K1200LT 2002 brake handle feel

That is what I was thinking. I may try and bleed the wheel circuit on the front. I have not been able to push fluid on the rear MC to the ABS yet. Something wrong there.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #7 of 11 Old Sep 15th, 2019, 11:12 am
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Re: K1200LT 2002 brake handle feel

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That is what I was thinking. I may try and bleed the wheel circuit on the front. I have not been able to push fluid on the rear MC to the ABS yet. Something wrong there.
It has been three years since I did my Spiegler work so my memory is a little foggy, but I do remember that the rear control circuit was a major PITA. I think I spend 2-3 days getting that bled enough to pass the bleed test. The front was easier, but still a pain and I had to ride the bike several times before the levers fully regained their feel. I think there are lots of places for air bubbles to hang out and the vibration of riding the bike helps dislodge the last few hold-outs.

I believe I posted my experience here somewhere, maybe at the end of my clutch replacement thread, but my recollection is that it was a bear. As to the feel of the brake with the key off, I think mine feels nearly the same as with the key on it is just that the same amount of force provides a lot less action at the caliper with the ABS off. I don’t believe the feel is much different and I can’t think why it would be given the schematics of the iABS that John has posted prior. Then again, my system is now fully bleed. With air in the wheel circuits, I have no idea how that might change the feel in the control circuits.

I would suggest that you take a break from the control circuits and have a go at the wheel circuits assuming you can get enough pressure in the control circuits to activate the ABS pumps. Then cycle back to the control circuits for another round. Sometimes just letting the bike sit overnight will allow time for some of the small bubbles to percolate up to the master cylinder in the front. The back is more troublesome given that the master cylinder is at the low point of the system, but the air should migrate upwards eventually.

I seem to recall that a I had a hard time getting the rear master cylinder to begin to pump fluid to the ABS unit. It was almost like there was a bubble in the reservoir line that was blocking fluid from even getting down to the master cylinder.

I know that I came away thinking that if I was going to do brake line replacements often on an LT, I would invest in a good pressure bleeder to get started.

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post #8 of 11 Old Sep 15th, 2019, 12:37 pm Thread Starter
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Re: K1200LT 2002 brake handle feel

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I would suggest that you take a break from the control circuits and have a go at the wheel circuits assuming you can get enough pressure in the control circuits to activate the ABS pumps. Then cycle back to the control circuits for another round. Sometimes just letting the bike sit overnight will allow time for some of the small bubbles to percolate up to the master cylinder in the front. The back is more troublesome given that the master cylinder is at the low point of the system, but the air should migrate upwards eventually.

I seem to recall that a I had a hard time getting the rear master cylinder to begin to pump fluid to the ABS unit. It was almost like there was a bubble in the reservoir line that was blocking fluid from even getting down to the master cylinder.

I know that I came away thinking that if I was going to do brake line replacements often on an LT, I would invest in a good pressure bleeder to get started.
I am going to do that now and see if I can make any headway. I have a bit brake syringe that I can use to pull,push fluid so I may try that on the rear and front calipers to get some fluid in the lines. I cracked the top nut on the rear MC and used it like a bleed nipple and I was able to get fluid everywhere but it did draw down from the funnel.

I only see two control bleed nipples on the back side in Kirks video but that is for a bleed. Need to read and look. There are a couple other nipples on the ABS so I may have to mess with those although they are almost unreachable.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #9 of 11 Old Sep 15th, 2019, 2:02 pm
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Re: K1200LT 2002 brake handle feel

The four bleed ports in this picture are the only ports I've had to bleed when installing new lines on the 2002 to 2004 LT. There are two ports on the side that I've never had to bleed. I always leave as much fluid in when I change the lines.
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post #10 of 11 Old Sep 15th, 2019, 5:34 pm
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Re: K1200LT 2002 brake handle feel

I replaced my brake lines last year with Speiglers and I used a vacuum bleeder to do the job, I also had a friend help me with watching fluid levels so as not to accidentally run out and have to start all over again. The whole job was done in an afternoon. With ignition off my brake lever pulls in about half way. With ignition on but motor off the brake lever is firm.
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post #11 of 11 Old Sep 15th, 2019, 6:01 pm Thread Starter
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Re: K1200LT 2002 brake handle feel

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I would think you need fluid in the entire system with no air to get a firm grip or pedal. My 2008 LT with the key off has a firm handle.
As it turns out, the wheel circuits did have to have fluid in them for the handle and pedal to become firm. As for the rear bleed trouble, I had two possible issues. I missed removing one of the copper crush washers in the toughest point under the top shock bolt which I removed to see if I could push fluid through the new line but I think that was actually sealing. It was mostly the rear long bleed nipple i had to open further to allow fluid to flow. Even though it was floppy with 1/4 turn, it needed more. Then I used a vacuum bleeder on them and madly pulled a lot of fluid through. Once I got all things bled and also did front and rear wheel circuits with the funnel and key on to push even more fluid but did not see any air bubbles. I did not have to touch the two smaller bleed nipples on the ABS but I didn't drain it either.

Final result was a pass on the GS911 bleed test first time around.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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