Trade-in sticker shock! - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 28 Old Apr 11th, 2019, 10:24 pm Thread Starter
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Trade-in sticker shock!

I'm the Original owner of a 2002 K1200LTC w 33k mi.

After a total, after 8yr 'Sitting', rebuild and all services up to date. I've ridden it only locally commute for a total of appx 4k mi in the past 3 yrs. No weekends. No trips. Just a 60mi r/t commute N. Miami to Boca Raton and back.
Reality has hit and I finally have admitted I've fallen fron Out Of Love to actual Out of Like with this 17y/o bike 😪
Since there are no recent Beemers that have my interest with my buget... Ive been considering moving over to the Yammy FJR1300 scene after 27yrs on BMW only.

Issues are (after all this verbiage) is that I've gotten 3 different trade-in quote from 3 sources of selling FJRs from 2014 to 2016.
The quotes for my bike have been: $1900, $1500 & $1000 !!!
#YouKiddingMe?

Is this what others are experiencing around the country for a 2002 K12LTC w 33Kmi?
Trade-in only for me. I've never sold a vehicle privately... Well once in 1980 for a FIAT 124 Spyder... And got snookered. No Vale La Pena.

What are others trade-in experiences?

Thanks-In-Advance,

TERRY-Miami aka T-Mia
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post #2 of 28 Old Apr 11th, 2019, 11:04 pm
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Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

I hate to say it but your bike in the bike world is a dynosaur. Not to the folks who ride and love them though. Your bike if you sell it yourself may go for 3500 to 5 grand. At a dealer it will sit around and they may get 3500. Just close your eyes and move on. Sell it yourself.
Your Choice of a FJR is a great one, dependable and the newer ones have lots of good features. I think they are heavy, get poor gas mileage and need to be ridden at higher RPM levels to move along well. If it is in your price range get one a year or two old, not the past stuff. I have friends with FJ's and they love them.
One fellow I know tried for several years to get his K1300GT to run properly, no dealer could do it. Many dollars and it is an expensive bike. He got disgusted and he and his wife both bought new FJR's two years ago and they could not be happier. Get back into riding on something you will enjoy.

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post #3 of 28 Old Apr 11th, 2019, 11:59 pm
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Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

Yep. The LT has horrible resale with a capital H. I've resigned myself to the fact when the time comes. I'll probably wind up dumping it maybe here for a parts bike. For what it will be worth resale (Next to nothing) It would be worth more to those on this forum.

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post #4 of 28 Old Apr 12th, 2019, 2:10 am
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Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

NADA low retail is $1940 and high retail is $2555. If it was me and a dealer was offering $1900 I wouldn't hesitate. Not too many people willing to spend a lot of money for a 17 year old motorcycle. Just my opinion.
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post #5 of 28 Old Apr 12th, 2019, 5:47 am
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Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tevansmd View Post
I'm the Original owner of a 2002 K1200LTC w 33k mi.

After a total, after 8yr 'Sitting', rebuild and all services up to date. I've ridden it only locally commute for a total of appx 4k mi in the past 3 yrs. No weekends. No trips. Just a 60mi r/t commute N. Miami to Boca Raton and back.
Reality has hit and I finally have admitted I've fallen fron Out Of Love to actual Out of Like with this 17y/o bike 😪
Since there are no recent Beemers that have my interest with my buget... Ive been considering moving over to the Yammy FJR1300 scene after 27yrs on BMW only.

Issues are (after all this verbiage) is that I've gotten 3 different trade-in quote from 3 sources of selling FJRs from 2014 to 2016.
The quotes for my bike have been: $1900, $1500 & $1000 !!!
#YouKiddingMe?

Is this what others are experiencing around the country for a 2002 K12LTC w 33Kmi?
Trade-in only for me. I've never sold a vehicle privately... Well once in 1980 for a FIAT 124 Spyder... And got snookered. No Vale La Pena.

What are others trade-in experiences?

Thanks-In-Advance,

TERRY-Miami aka T-Mia
Bike is old, out of production for almost 10 years and a little behind on the technology curve. Hey I almost had my feeling hurt when I traded in my '13 GTL on an '18 GA!!!!

Be lucky they offered you 1K for it!

Brett
2003 K1200LTC SOLD
2013 K1600GTL SOLD
2018 K1600GA SOLD
2019 K1600GA Blue

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post #6 of 28 Old Apr 12th, 2019, 7:05 am
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Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

You are seeing the reality that many of us have already seen. Motorcycles in general do not hold value well and the LT is particularly bad, but older Gold Wings arenít so great either.

My 2007 is a fair bit newer than yours, has not even been dropped, let alone totaled, which should mean yours has an R title, and has a lot of goodies such as Nav 5, CB, Wilburís suspension, Spieglers lines, Jiffy-Tite QDs, Fog lights, FIBIB kit and so one. I looked at a GA last summer and the dealer offered me something like $5,800 (going on memory here) which I thought was actually pretty good. I told my wife weíd be lucky to get $5,000.

If you were offered $1,900 on a trade for a new FJR and the dealer wasnít inflating the FJR price because of the trade, then I would say you got a screaming deal. I donít mean any offense, but I would not pay $2,000 for a 17 year-old bike with an R title.

I came close to trading my LT on a GA last summer, but then as I thought about it I realized that the LT is not an investment and it isnít about what it is worth to someone else, it is about what it is worth to me. And my LT is still worth more to me than it is to anyone else. That is the simple reality. It still gets the job done and I have yet to find a better mount for long distance travel for two people.

It isnít the best for local fun rides, particularly on unpaved roads, and the 24K maintenance gets more tedious every time I do it. My solution to that was to buy a KLR650 last summer after I decided not to trade for a GA. It is simple and fun to ride and maintenance is pretty easy. Although, I think if you add up all of the chain maintenance, it probably will take as much time over the course of 24,000 miles as does my LT.

Good luck on your decision. I test rode an FJR a few years ago when they finally added cruise control to it. I thought it was a great bike, but it was just too small for two people to travel long distance on. If I rode only solo, it would be near the top of my list. It is priced right and I suspect will have the typical Yamaha reliability. It certainly was much smoother than any BMW I have ridden. Excellent fuel injection tuning, smooth and quite shifts, etc. It did lack wind protection though compared to even an RT and was far away from the LT.

If I was buying a new solo bike today, I would first look at the new R1250RT and ride an FJR again and then agonize over the decision.

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2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
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post #7 of 28 Old Apr 12th, 2019, 11:12 am
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Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

I just got bought a 2019 1250RT. I test drove both and there is no comparison. The BMW is by far the better bike. But the price is about double. But if I could not get the RT I would have went with the Yamaha.
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post #8 of 28 Old Apr 12th, 2019, 12:42 pm
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Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

I always sell privately-on CL or Facebook Marketplace. Bought my wife a new Forester last summer and the dealer offered $3200 in trade for our 2011 Legacy with 140,000 miles. I listed on CL and FB and it was gone in 3 days for $7500. That would have been a huge loss on my part. In your case, the bike is quite old so that is really not that bad of an offer as long as they don't inflate the purchase price as someone else mentioned. Otherwise, download a free used car sales receipt and print 2 copies and both parties sign. I only accept cash or bank check if the person is local and will allow me to call their bank and verify the check is legit on the day they are picking up.

Now on to the FJR. As a person that came from an FJR to the RT, I would highly recommend riding one for an extended period of time if have not already. The RT has everything I loved about the FJR without all the things I hated about the FJR. The FJR is a great bike and super reliable, but there may some dislikes you won't find out about until you have owned the bike for a while. I am still on that forum as well as it has a great group of guys, but more people move over to the RT from FJR than vice versa.

I actually made a comparison list:

FJR Pros:
1.) High reliability and low maint costs. It really is a bullet-proof bike under normal riding conditions and maint
2.) 1300cc inline 4-cyl is butter smooth and really winds out nicely. Never had to downshift to pass (I had a 2011 with 5-speed)
3.) Styling-very sharp bike
4.) Simple electronics-easy to figure out just by playing around
5.) Same stuff as RT: ABS, Traction control, cruise, heated grips, ES (optional). No radio or BT option
6.) Nice generous storage tray under rider seat for tool pouch, air pump, tire repair kit, or micro battery pack

FJR Cons:
1.) Top heavy with high center of gravity and high seat height. If you are vertically challenged (I am not) this adds to the challenge of keeping it upright
2,) Difficult to balance at low parking lot speeds (see #1 above). U-turns are a challenge especially with a passenger and luggage. I ended up weaving back and forth a lot under 10-12 mph
3.) Forward leaning riding position. I had a MV-Motorrad riser and still need to let go of one handlebar at a time to sit up straight and take the strain off my shoulders and upper back
4.) Cramped leg space. I am 6'0" and my legs would get cramped after 2 hrs as they are tucked up pretty tight on the stock pegs
5.) Heat-when the engine cooling fans kick on they blow directly back on the rider
6.) Terrible stock seat (worse than RT). Most people replace or modify by RDL or Laam
7.) Weak rear subframe. If you are going to add topcase, you will need to reinforce with Gerauld "Stiffy" subframe bracket. Google FJR broken subframe
8.) Aside from oil/filter changes, engine work (spark plugs, valve adj) is a pain as the engine is buried in plastic
9.) Battery and fuses are in the dash-horrible place. You have to loosen a couple screws/push pins and pry plastic apart to get battery out. Also adds to top heavy weight
10.) Small cramped rear seat space. If you ride 2-up your passenger will be pretty close behind you with not much room between
11.) Faring is smaller and dash sits lower than RT

Just my $.02.
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post #9 of 28 Old Apr 13th, 2019, 7:00 pm
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Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

Hopefully you got your money's worth out of it. Old bikes don't bring much money, unless they are really old, in perfect condition and highly desired. Mileage on bikes doesn't seem to really factor into final price.

Current Ride: '02 LT - The Mistress
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post #10 of 28 Old Apr 14th, 2019, 5:48 am
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Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tevansmd View Post
I'm the Original owner of a 2002 K1200LTC w 33k mi...

The quotes for my bike have been: $1900, $1500 & $1000 !!!...

Is this what others are experiencing around the country for a 2002 K12LTC w 33Kmi?...
When we were looking at a 2018 K1600GTL and trading our 2000 KLT with 100K miles on it, we could have gotten about $1000 for it, but the dealership didn't really want it (Max in NY). I suspect they would have taken the bike just to help make the deal, and I suspect that the bike would have never been on their showroom floor. Rather, they'd have wholesaled it or recycled it, something like that. And they'd probably have factored the trade as a liability rather than an asset. I when I finally told them I was going to make the purchase without the trade they seemed relieved.

Since I knew the bike to be in good running condition I decided to gift it to someone I thought would be happy to have it.

So yeah, these old bikes have value to someone who appreciates them, but there isn't much market value.
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post #11 of 28 Old Apr 14th, 2019, 6:28 am
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Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

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Originally Posted by CharlieVT View Post
When we were looking at a 2018 K1600GTL and trading our 2000 KLT with 100K miles on it, we could have gotten about $1000 for it, but the dealership didn't really want it (Max in NY). I suspect they would have taken the bike just to help make the deal, and I suspect that the bike would have never been on their showroom floor. Rather, they'd have wholesaled it or recycled it, something like that. And they'd probably have factored the trade as a liability rather than an asset. I when I finally told them I was going to make the purchase without the trade they seemed relieved.

Since I knew the bike to be in good running condition I decided to gift it to someone I thought would be happy to have it.

So yeah, these old bikes have value to someone who appreciates them, but there isn't much market value.
About time to get that GTL on the road and write up some road reports.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #12 of 28 Old Apr 14th, 2019, 7:33 am
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Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

I recently was looking at bikes and talking to a salesman at iMotorsports in Elmhurst, IL. He offered me $4000 for my 2005 LT with 40,000 miles site unseen. If you have the time, maybe keep looking?

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post #13 of 28 Old Apr 14th, 2019, 9:02 am
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Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

Concerning talk about the Yamaha vs. the new RT:

It's obvious that the OP is not riding his current BMW in its intended usage, i.e., long distance sport-touring. It would make zero sense to spend somewhere close to $25,000 on a sport-touring bike that is only being used to ride to work and back.

So, in spite of all of the faults of the Yamaha, it makes a lot more sense to buy it for what?- $15,000?- and pocket the rest.

Those who say that it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those who are doing it.

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post #14 of 28 Old Apr 14th, 2019, 10:03 am
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Unhappy Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

AS mentioned by others the LT's are "boat anchors" unless you own and love it!!

I have been completely through my 2000, new rear main, clutch, rebuilt rear drive, and lots of other update goodies so it is in tip top condition. My wife no longer can ride with me so the LT sits in the garage a LOT. Tried to sell it, no luck, then actually tried to give it away without success.

SO, I've decided to keep it and ride it when I can!! Still one of the most comfortable machines out there. Yes, the new K1600 "star ships" are awesome, but in a few years they will be the "LT's" of the MC world.

Meanwhile, my ancient R75/6 and R100RS keep purring along.

Just one old mans opinion.
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post #15 of 28 Old Apr 14th, 2019, 11:45 am
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Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

Quote:
Originally Posted by radar41 View Post

...I have been completely through my 2000, new rear main, clutch, rebuilt rear drive, and lots of other update goodies so it is in tip top condition....tried to give it away without success... Still one of the most comfortable machines out there...Meanwhile, my ancient R75/6 and R100RS keep purring along.
Re. the 2000, I'll take it! K1200LT is still an unmatched ride for performance two up touring. Although knee arthritis was making two up slow speed handling a little dicey at times. One of the reasons I gave it up.

And, yeah, Slash 6 bikes. I'd take my R90/6 if I was headed for the artic circle, or similar remote ride. Not only do those bikes rarely break, but you can fix 'em with the tool kit.
K1200LT tool kit: tire plug, cell phone, credit card.
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post #16 of 28 Old Apr 14th, 2019, 12:11 pm
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Red face Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

When I don't ride it for a while, I'll mention to my wife "If I could find a nice young couple, who loves to travel, I'd give it to them"!! She then says go ride it! Which I do! I've actually called her from the road and said "I love this machine"!! She laughs and says "I know you do"!! We have ridden that LT on many fun trips together, and even though she can't ride anymore, she still loves it too!!
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post #17 of 28 Old Apr 14th, 2019, 4:20 pm
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Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

I feel lucky that we can both still ride. I had some issues back last year when she (the bike) started burning oil at 95,000 as she never used a drop up to that point. I tried valve stem seals and no joy so I went ahead and did a full valve job and replaced the piston rings at 111,000. Now over 1,000 miles into the break in and no oil consumption. Looks like we will try to go another 100,000 on the old girl.
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2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #18 of 28 Old Apr 14th, 2019, 5:09 pm
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Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
I feel lucky that we can both still ride. I had some issues back last year when she (the bike) started burning oil at 95,000 as she never used a drop up to that point. I tried valve stem seals and no joy so I went ahead and did a full valve job and replaced the piston rings at 111,000. Now over 1,000 miles into the break in and no oil consumption. Looks like we will try to go another 100,000 on the old girl.
John,
Glad the piston ring job is working ;-)

HOWEVER, given a few here who have reported 200,000 or 300,000 miles without such job, I am somewhat baffled why your K1200LT is diiferent ? On the K1200RS forum we have a few with 100,000 to 170,000 miles.

ZEKE here with 300,000 milestone on his K1200LT and some maintenance details:
https://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt...ther-100k.html

JSR (Jeff) here with 300,000 miles milestone on his K1200LT in a 2013 post:
https://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt...300-000-a.html
Also found a more recent post in 2015 from him with 341,0000 miles
https://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt...ml#post1374473

-------------------------------------------------
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 95,000 miles)
-------------------------------------------------
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post #19 of 28 Old Apr 14th, 2019, 5:17 pm
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Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
About time to get them GTL on the road and write up some road reports.
Okay. You are my motivation.
Not really, got the maple sugaring operation pretty much cleaned up, 500 taps pulled, washing this, washing that, etc.
But getting the mud in the driveway to dry up a little was the biggest issue.
This afternoon, an hour on greasy mud back roads on the R90/6.
Then an hour on the K1600GTL. Strictly pavement. Although "Rain mode" is very forgiving on the GTL I decided to stay on the pavement. I rode the climbing sweepers on VT rte 9 from Brattleboro to Hogback Mtn. and then down to Wilmington and return. No supra legl speed, just comfortable, back in the saddle velocity.

New windscreen on the GTL. Has a flair at the top. Much improved over the stock windscreen. Very reminiscent of changing the stock windscreen on the KLT for the CeeBailey I had for so many years. (Too bad CeeBailey gave up on motorcycle windscreens, they had a good product.) In any case, much reduced helmet buffeting with the new windscreen and able to look over the top of it by a couple of inches at the same time.

After the ride, I installed the AeroFlow mini-wings for post 2017 GTLs. I'll have to report on that later.

My biggest comparison beef between the GTL and the KLT is the way the KTL used to smooth out the Vermont potholes and frost heaves. With Olin shocks on the KLT and the KLT's weight, that bike would really soak up the bumps. The GTL is down right harsh by comparison. The GTL has all kinds of suspension settings: it can be adjusted for "road" or "dynamic" and additional adjustments for "one up", "one up with luggage", or "two up". I don't have enough time in the saddle to say I've found the optimal setting, but so far the KLT is hands down better that the GTL in the "roadability" department.

In the "softer" mode on the GTL, a bump will bang your backbone and then the bike will wallow; kind of like a 1960's Chevy with worn out shocks. Put it in a "firmer" mode, and the bumps become down right harsh making you want to stand on the footpegs. So far, IMO the KLT is truly superior in this department.

The KLT will go down in history as an unsung hero of two up sport touring. Remarkable bike. A few of us really understand it.
If a good KLT dropped in my lap, I'd give it a good home. I'd probably take off the top box, or at least take out the speakers, and take out the fairing speakers to reduce more weight.

I honestly think that BMW could kill the GoldWing with a KLT on a K1600 platform. Those Barvarians just don't get it...
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post #20 of 28 Old Apr 14th, 2019, 8:02 pm
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Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
John,
Glad the piston ring job is working ;-)

HOWEVER, given a few here who have reported 200,000 or 300,000 miles without such job, I am somewhat baffled why your K1200LT is diiferent ? On the K1200RS forum we have a few with 100,000 to 170,000 miles.

ZEKE here with 300,000 milestone on his K1200LT and some maintenance details:
https://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt...ther-100k.html

JSR (Jeff) here with 300,000 miles milestone on his K1200LT in a 2013 post:
https://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt...300-000-a.html
Also found a more recent post in 2015 from him with 341,0000 miles
https://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt...ml#post1374473
I think it is that 200W500 oil he was using that takes 15 minutes to drain back to the oil pan.
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1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #21 of 28 Old Apr 14th, 2019, 8:08 pm
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Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieVT View Post
Okay. You are my motivation.
Not really, got the maple sugaring operation pretty much cleaned up, 500 taps pulled, washing this, washing that, etc.
But getting the mud in the driveway to dry up a little was the biggest issue.
This afternoon, an hour on greasy mud back roads on the R90/6.
Then an hour on the K1600GTL. Strictly pavement. Although "Rain mode" is very forgiving on the GTL I decided to stay on the pavement. I rode the climbing sweepers on VT rte 9 from Brattleboro to Hogback Mtn. and then down to Wilmington and return. No supra legl speed, just comfortable, back in the saddle velocity.

New windscreen on the GTL. Has a flair at the top. Much improved over the stock windscreen. Very reminiscent of changing the stock windscreen on the KLT for the CeeBailey I had for so many years. (Too bad CeeBailey gave up on motorcycle windscreens, they had a good product.) In any case, much reduced helmet buffeting with the new windscreen and able to look over the top of it by a couple of inches at the same time.

After the ride, I installed the AeroFlow mini-wings for post 2017 GTLs. I'll have to report on that later.

My biggest comparison beef between the GTL and the KLT is the way the KTL used to smooth out the Vermont potholes and frost heaves. With Olin shocks on the KLT and the KLT's weight, that bike would really soak up the bumps. The GTL is down right harsh by comparison. The GTL has all kinds of suspension settings: it can be adjusted for "road" or "dynamic" and additional adjustments for "one up", "one up with luggage", or "two up". I don't have enough time in the saddle to say I've found the optimal setting, but so far the KLT is hands down better that the GTL in the "roadability" department.

In the "softer" mode on the GTL, a bump will bang your backbone and then the bike will wallow; kind of like a 1960's Chevy with worn out shocks. Put it in a "firmer" mode, and the bumps become down right harsh making you want to stand on the footpegs. So far, IMO the KLT is truly superior in this department.

The KLT will go down in history as an unsung hero of two up sport touring. Remarkable bike. A few of us really understand it.
If a good KLT dropped in my lap, I'd give it a good home. I'd probably take off the top box, or at least take out the speakers, and take out the fairing speakers to reduce more weight.

I honestly think that BMW could kill the GoldWing with a KLT on a K1600 platform. Those Barvarians just don't get it...
Pretty much the same here in PA and still awaiting the first hard rain to wash off the road salt and sand.

I also take it easy on the first ride or two in the spring until the rust gets dusted off and the skills sharpen up again.

I agree with you 100% on the GTL vs. LT. After thrice renting GTLs, I just canít bring myself to buy one as long as the LT is hanging in there. Although, the GA did come closer to the LT than anything else to date.

Not only donít the Bavarians get it, but the Japanese seem to not get it either. They completely redesigned the Wing and yet it came in with more weight than the K1600 (by probably 100 lbs), and with less power, less fuel capacity, less storage capacity and a rock hard seat. They got the styling nearly right and I like the looks about as good as I like my LT, but other than wind protection and the LCD dash, the new Wing is inferior to both the K1600 and the LT in almost every regard.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #22 of 28 Old Yesterday, 8:59 am
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Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
John,
Glad the piston ring job is working ;-)

HOWEVER, given a few here who have reported 200,000 or 300,000 miles without such job, I am somewhat baffled why your K1200LT is diiferent ? On the K1200RS forum we have a few with 100,000 to 170,000 miles.

ZEKE here with 300,000 milestone on his K1200LT and some maintenance details:
https://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt...ther-100k.html

JSR (Jeff) here with 300,000 miles milestone on his K1200LT in a 2013 post:
https://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt...300-000-a.html
Also found a more recent post in 2015 from him with 341,0000 miles
https://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt...ml#post1374473
I have absolutely no idea exactly what caused this. But the oil consumption was well inside the BMW limits of 1 L per 1,000 km. I just did not like the fact that I had to add oil (200 ml) on a 250 to 350 mile trip when she never used a drop before. There was never any smoke but people that rode behind me noted an "oil" smell to my exhaust.

CharlieVT had the same issue but his valve stem seals were in very bad shape, mine were fine.

I used Mobil1 after 20K but so have many others.

I have a habit of staying near the rev limiter when solo in the mountains, mostly 2nd gear 50 mph. May be the #1 cause.

The old rings were still within the end gap limits. There was some ripples perpendicular to the rings in the cylinder walls up near the top on #2 & #3 on the bottom side of the walls but all pistons had a heavy layer of carbon so all cylinders were consuming oil.

At this point I just don't know and will just keep on riding. I do more two up now so I will not be visiting the rev limiter very much.

Time will tell as I put another 100 K on the old girl.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #23 of 28 Old Yesterday, 9:46 am
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Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
I have absolutely no idea exactly what caused this. But the oil consumption was well inside the BMW limits of 1 L per 1,000 km. I just did not like the fact that I had to add oil (200 ml) on a 250 to 350 mile trip when she never used a drop before. There was never any smoke but people that rode behind me noted an "oil" smell to my exhaust.

CharlieVT had the same issue but his valve stem seals were in very bad shape, mine were fine.

I used Mobil1 after 20K but so have many others.

I have a habit of staying near the rev limiter when solo in the mountains, mostly 2nd gear 50 mph. May be the #1 cause.

The old rings were still within the end gap limits. There was some ripples perpendicular to the rings in the cylinder walls up near the top on #2 & #3 on the bottom side of the walls but all pistons had a heavy layer of carbon so all cylinders were consuming oil.

At this point I just don't know and will just keep on riding. I do more two up now so I will not be visiting the rev limiter very much.

Time will tell as I put another 100 K on the old girl.
John,
Thank you for this added info.

I was curious to better understand "potential" causes... and I also believe this info will serve as a database of knowledge for other having similar issues in future.

My opinion of BMW statement in all their technical literature about what constitutes acceptable oil consumption is just BS OR "how to cover your ass so as not have too many warranty claims for such defect".

BMW has been writing this in their warranty even in 1970 for Air-Heads , a machine that has by design very different tolerance specs compare to their more modern water-cooled models (2, 4 or 6 cylinders). We all know it is just nonsense to consider 1 liter-per-1000 KM as acceptable on a modern water-cooled engine ;-) Yet they have their dealers repeat this nonsense to customers so as not to cover it under warranty. Any vehicle manufacturer using these written warranty as facts or excuses should be ashamed...

-------------------------------------------------
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 95,000 miles)
-------------------------------------------------
Think twice before you hit [SUBMIT REPLY] - famous quote by another member:
"The value of this board is not founded on dismissing the ideas of others, but by posting to share our experiences and what we've learned from them."

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post #24 of 28 Old Yesterday, 12:07 pm
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Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

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Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
Ö.CharlieVT had the same issue but his valve stem seals were in very bad shape, mine were fine...
I have a habit of staying near the rev limiter when solo in the mountains, mostly 2nd gear 50 mph. May be the #1 cause...
Speculating on causes of my oil consumption:

I too did a lot of high rpms. Used to run two up with sport bike riders in the New England hills. Also did a lot of riding with friends who rode aggressively, two up, on a K1600GT, both rider and pillion are Porsche race drivers and would set a fast pace on their K1600GT. I pretty much flogged the K1200LT engine with lots of down shifts, high rpms with wide open throttle to try and keep up; and constant high rpms when climbing the mountains. My bike with often loaded with overnight luggage for two of us. Drop a gear, hold the throttle wide open and wait till rpms got close to rev limiter, then shift and do it again. Many hours and miles riding like that. I'm sure I was flogging the engine harder than most would do.

The other thing I noticed during my top end rebuild was a slightly loose fitting hose on one of the injector vacuum ports. I had done a cannisterectomy but left hoses attached to vacuum ports with hoses plugged. I later wondered if that loose fitting hose might have been the source of a clandestine vacuum leak somehow contributing to my cylinder carbon build up and oil consumption. I had pretty severe carbon deposits.

Picture: My riding buddy's car at Limerock; they are fast on their K1600GT too but I don't have a picture of them, I was always trying to catch up!
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post #25 of 28 Old Yesterday, 4:47 pm
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Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

I guess I never knew you were such an aggressive rider Curtis. Guess it was good you also replaced your rings.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #26 of 28 Old Yesterday, 5:06 pm
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Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
I guess I never knew you were such an aggressive rider Curtis. Guess it was good you also replaced your rings.
Itís always the quiet ones...

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #27 of 28 Old Yesterday, 7:59 pm
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Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

We need a good riding style profile to go along with people looking for various repairs...lol. I gave the "keep it 2nd" try and it was a lot of fun! It also led to the only time I ran our of gas (on this bike) about 1/2 mile from the gas station...lol. But, I did go 60-70 in 2nd some, probably contributing to the poor gas mileage. So, I changed it up a bit and go to 3rd at 55-60...I know, bring a long an extra gas can and keep it in 2nd. For me, I have to ride 90 minutes to find a nice curvy road and repeat the road with nothing anywhere close to the road. I just need to move. I was in Texas last week and there were some fun roads but I was in the car...
You guys mean it when you say, "ride it like you stole it."

Current Ride: '02 LT - The Mistress
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post #28 of 28 Old Yesterday, 8:19 pm
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Re: Trade-in sticker shock!

OK, maybe I went into way more depth than what you were looking for. The FJR really is a low maintenance highly reliable bike. I would not be afraid to pick up a well maintained one with 30k-40k miles. Stick with a 2013 or newer and you will be in the Gen III with factory cruise and several other improvements. In 2016 they went from 5-speed to 6 but most fans agree that it is not needed and simply adds more shifting.

Resale drops off sharply the first couple of years but then levels off. For example a new 2019 ES is $18,000 in my area. But there is a Brand New 2014 leftover at a local dealer for $11,900.

Here is a 2015 with 4,000 miles on it for $9950:

https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/mcy...866842199.html

So shop around, you can easily pick up a pretty nice low-mid mileage Gen III for under $10,000.

2016 R1200RT
2011 Yamaha FJR (sold)
2016 Yamaha Super Tenere ES (sold)
2008 Yamaha Zuma (wife's ride but I maintain)
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