Can't get rear wheel drive off shaft. - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 20 Old Mar 2nd, 2019, 11:25 am Thread Starter
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Can't get rear wheel drive off shaft.

So my year 2000 K1200LT had a small amount of play at the rear wheel, I loosened the drive to shaft floating bearing lock nut and stud adjusted the stud to 7Nm as I had before a while back tightened the lock nut, refitted the wheel but there was still a small amount of play/movement when gripping the wheel top and bottom. So decided to remove the drive, floating and fixed studs out reaction/torsion bolt removed, but pull as hard as I can the drive will not disengage and come away from the shaft, any one had this problem or got any ideas..........Help!
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post #2 of 20 Old Mar 2nd, 2019, 4:43 pm
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Re: Can't get rear wheel drive off shaft.

It should easily slide out unless it's rust seized. Possible the last person to service the shaft didn't apply anti-seize to the splines. Try some gentle persuasion with a less than gentle hammer

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Knoxville TN
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post #3 of 20 Old Mar 2nd, 2019, 5:58 pm
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Re: Can't get rear wheel drive off shaft.

If you have everything already disconnected, then something is definitely sticking. You might try using a wood or rubber mallet here while supporting the FD. Have you had this off before or did you just adjust the bearing preload and not remove?
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post #4 of 20 Old Mar 3rd, 2019, 2:18 am Thread Starter
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Re: Can't get rear wheel drive off shaft.

Thanks for the replies, so this morning I set to getting it out with a bit more force and after struggling laying under the bike and bracing my feet against the stand and exhaust it gave way and came out, the problem is the shaft came with it and it is all sized together so now how do I free the shaft apart and get the stub shaft out of the drive to be able to knock the pivot bearings out? Is it safe to heat the shaft or will that cause damage to the shaft bearings?
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post #5 of 20 Old Mar 3rd, 2019, 7:03 am
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Re: Can't get rear wheel drive off shaft.

A picture of this would be great as this is the first fused shaft I have heard of. Assuming it isn't also rusted together, you should be able to pry the yoke out of the final drive as it is only held in with the same type of spring clip as the front side of the shaft. The unfortunate part is I am not sure you can get the front side of the shaft properly re-engaged with the transmission without removing the swing arm. I have never tried. You should have 2 pieces when you are done. Some penetrating oil may help.
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Gordon
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2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #6 of 20 Old Mar 3rd, 2019, 8:13 am
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Re: Can't get rear wheel drive off shaft.

Definitely need pictures. If the splines are so badly worn or distorted that they fused together, you are likely in need of a driveshaft. I suspect it will be tricky to install the driveshaft with the swing arm in place, but it might be possible.

How many miles on this LT? Did it sit for long periods of time?

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post #7 of 20 Old Mar 3rd, 2019, 8:20 am
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Re: Can't get rear wheel drive off shaft.

If it has any rust on it you will need to find out if the water came in through the front swing arm boot or the rear swing arm boot.
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post #8 of 20 Old Mar 3rd, 2019, 11:04 am Thread Starter
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Re: Can't get rear wheel drive off shaft.

Back in the garage this afternoon after a sleep this morning, on 3x12 hour shifts. Put some gas heat onto the outer of the shaft where it fits over the stub shaft while running water on the stub shaft and gearbox end of the shaft, with it all in the vice and much hammering of the drive, protecting it with a bit of wood I now have the shaft off the stub shaft which of cause is still stuck on the drive!

Have taken some pics and will try to get them on soon if I can figure out how, dinner and off to work for another 12 hours now.
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post #9 of 20 Old Mar 3rd, 2019, 11:41 am Thread Starter
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Re: Can't get rear wheel drive off shaft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
Definitely need pictures. If the splines are so badly worn or distorted that they fused together, you are likely in need of a driveshaft. I suspect it will be tricky to install the driveshaft with the swing arm in place, but it might be possible.

How many miles on this LT? Did it sit for long periods of time?
It has 59000 miles and gets use all the year but not so much in the winter, longest period of no used probably two months. I have owned the bike since it was 18 months old with 8000 miles on it.

.
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post #10 of 20 Old Mar 3rd, 2019, 12:12 pm
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Re: Can't get rear wheel drive off shaft.

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Originally Posted by geoffb View Post
It has 59000 miles and gets use all the year but not so much in the winter, longest period of no used probably two months. I have owned the bike since it was 18 months old with 8000 miles on it.

.
If the FD has not been removed before, there is some chance that after 59,000 miles the splines between the two driveshafts dried out and then worn enough to build up a ridge that locked them together. This is certainly an unusual “failure” mode and the pictures will be interesting.

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post #11 of 20 Old Mar 3rd, 2019, 12:19 pm
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Re: Can't get rear wheel drive off shaft.

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Originally Posted by geoffb View Post
Back in the garage this afternoon after a sleep this morning, on 3x12 hour shifts. Put some gas heat onto the outer of the shaft where it fits over the stub shaft while running water on the stub shaft and gearbox end of the shaft, with it all in the vice and much hammering of the drive, protecting it with a bit of wood I now have the shaft off the stub shaft which of cause is still stuck on the drive!

Have taken some pics and will try to get them on soon if I can figure out how, dinner and off to work for another 12 hours now.
I am not sure what you mean by “stub” shaft, but I am assuming you mean the part that attaches to the FD rather than to the transmission. Both ends of the drive shaft have clips that “lock” into the shafts in the transmission and FD. So, you need to use a large screwdriver or pry bar to pop them off the shafts. Some put a screwdriver through one of the pivot bearings, but be very careful doing that as the bearing or race can be damaged. Generally, a good sharp rap from a hammer against the pry bar will pop the clip out of the groove in the splined shafts.
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post #12 of 20 Old Mar 3rd, 2019, 4:52 pm
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Re: Can't get rear wheel drive off shaft.

I never use the bearing holes to lever the drive shaft part off the rear drive, I always use the edge of the housing. A large flat blade screw driver or pry bar works wonders. Alternately I loop some heavy chord around the drive shaft part and use a hammer to impact the "other " end of the big loop.

John
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post #13 of 20 Old Mar 4th, 2019, 1:54 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Can't get rear wheel drive off shaft.

Took the drive unit into work last night and with it firmly mounted in the vice a colleague and myself, with a 3 foot pry bar each levering against the end of the drive housing with the tip of the pry bars inside the coupling part of the short shaft or stub shaft as I called it earlier, it eventually and reluctantly gave way and came off. Inside the splines was very dry with the remains of a plastic sort of burnt residue, could be the remains of dried up grease I suppose but looked more like heated lock tight! Remember I had to heat the shaft to get it apart.

As Voyager said earlier in the thread it will be tricky getting the shaft back with the swing arm in place, I did try it this afternoon and managed to locate it but as I have no spline grease yet I took it off again and was unable to repeat so may end up removing the swinging arm. Will order the pivot bearings and grease from Motoworks tomorrow.

Have saved some of the dried residue out of the shaft splines and will take a picture tomorrow and try to get them on here.
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Last edited by geoffb; Mar 4th, 2019 at 3:16 pm.
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post #14 of 20 Old Mar 4th, 2019, 2:55 pm
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Re: Can't get rear wheel drive off shaft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffb View Post
Took the drive unit into work last night and with it firmly mounted in the vice a colleague and myself, with a 3 foot pry bar each levering against the end of the drive housing with the tip of the pry bars inside the coupling part of the short shaft or stub shaft as I called it earlier, it eventually and reluctantly gave way and came off. Inside the splines was very dry with the remains of a plastic sort of burnt residue, could be the remain of dried up grease I suppose but looked more like heated lock tight! Remember I had to heat the shaft to get it apart.

As Voyager said earlier in the thread it will be tricky getting the shaft back with the swing arm in place, I did try it this afternoon and managed to locate it but as I have no spline grease yet I took it off again and was unable to repeat so may end up removing the swinging arm. Will order the pivot bearings and grease from Motoworks tomorrow.

Have saved some of the dried residue out of the shaft splines and will take a picture tomorrow and try to get them on here.
I have never heard of anyone putting loctite on the splines so the pics should be of interest to several on this thread. I would be interested in knowing if the spring circlips are present in both ends of the drive shaft. If missing, it might explain the loctite
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1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
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post #15 of 20 Old Mar 4th, 2019, 3:13 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Can't get rear wheel drive off shaft.

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I have never heard of anyone putting loctite on the splines so the pics should be of interest to several on this thread. I would be interested in knowing if the spring circlips are present in both ends of the drive shaft. If missing, it might explain the loctite
Yes the circlips are in place, most of the residue was from the splines where the 2 halves of the shaft are joined which must slide with the rise and fall of the swing arm during riding this was sized and I heated it with a gas torch in order to split the shaft.
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post #16 of 20 Old Mar 4th, 2019, 7:56 pm
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Re: Can't get rear wheel drive off shaft.

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Yes the circlips are in place, most of the residue was from the splines where the 2 halves of the shaft are joined which must slide with the rise and fall of the swing arm during riding this was sized and I heated it with a gas torch in order to split the shaft.
I wonder what shape the transmission output bearings and FD pinion bearings are in, as well as the U-joint bearings. The movement of the swing arm with the splines siezed would have put tremendous force on those parts.
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post #17 of 20 Old Mar 5th, 2019, 9:34 am Thread Starter
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Re: Can't get rear wheel drive off shaft.

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I wonder what shape the transmission output bearings and FD pinion bearings are in, as well as the U-joint bearings. The movement of the swing arm with the splines siezed would have put tremendous force on those parts.
The bearings and U-joints all seem to be in good condition as far as I can tell.
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post #18 of 20 Old Mar 5th, 2019, 2:06 pm
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Re: Can't get rear wheel drive off shaft.

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The bearings and U-joints all seem to be in good condition as far as I can tell.
That sure is a strange one. Never heard of the splines seizing before. I can’t imagine what was put on them last time they were assembled.

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post #19 of 20 Old Mar 5th, 2019, 3:27 pm
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Re: Can't get rear wheel drive off shaft.

Wow, very odd indeed. Wonder what possessed the first owner(s) (pre- 8000 miles) to do that? And why would a bike with less than 8K mile even need a FD removal. I expected to see a lot of rust, but the pix suggest something else, although the shaft does have some rust colored stains.

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post #20 of 20 Old Mar 8th, 2019, 1:58 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Can't get rear wheel drive off shaft.

Here's the picture of the material that I cleaned out of the 2 halves of the shaft splines which I had to heat up in order to prize it apart, I now think it is degraded grease partly caused by the heat I had to apply in order to part the shaft, although that doesn't explain why it was stuck together in the first place.

Anyway all is good now, I ordered the bearings and grease Tuesday, they arrived yesterday (Thursday) morning, all back together by the evening, I had no trouble getting the shaft on to the gearbox output with the swinging arm in place and drove the cir-clip into place by sliding a length of 20mm conduit up the inside of the shaft marked the inside of the swing arm where the end of the shaft was, a swift blow on the end of the conduit located the cir-clip onto the gearbox output, marked inside the swing arm again just to make sure the shaft had moved forward and compared the differing marks, unable to pull it off anyway. Drive pivot bearings fitted and torqued up, now no play when gripping the rear wheel.
Went for a test ride this morning, all is good.

Thanks to everyone for your replies, interest and help.
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