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Voyager Feb 4th, 2019 3:58 pm

Alaska preparation
 
6 Attachment(s)
Finally got in the mood to start into the LTís maintenance and inspection cycle for its 24K service and preparation for a ride to Alaska. This is the first major maintenance cycle since I had the old girl apart for the clutch replacement.

I decided to start at the bottom and work my way up since I need to get her on the centerstand before I can do the valve clearance check. My main reason to work on the centerstand is to try to get any slop in the mounts oriented toward the rear of the bike to try to regain the clearance I formerly had for the oil filter cover rear bolt. The bolt came out fine when the bike came from the factory, but hit the cross bar after I had it apart for the clutch. So, I clearly had the centerstand and/or EHCS frame skewed towards the front of the bike. I was also contemplating greasing the centerstand bushings again if necessary and changing the transmission oil is much easier with the centerstand removed.

Got the centerstand off and the bushings look like they will go another 24K. I worked the centerstand by hand several times and it moved very freely. I remember how stiff it was when I first had it apart at the 54,000 mile mark. Now at 74,000 it still moves as slick as can be. I think the new o-rings and the Honda Moly 60 are holding up well.

I was pleasantly surprised to see how clean the bottom of the engine and transmission are. I was used to seen everything covered in grime, but it appears the new seals are holding up. The EHCS is quite clean as is the bottom of the engine. Looks like a little oil residue around the oil filter cover, but that is most likely from my last oil change.

I got the transmission fill plug loose (always do that one first just in case) and then the drain plug. It is amazing how much better these come out when properly torqued as compared to first time I removed them as they came from the factory. The oil looked and smelled almost as good as new. The drain plug had just a small amount of residue on it, but not bad at all for 20,000 miles. I would say the transmission is holding up well.

I took the shifter linkage apart and the new foam rubber donuts work MUCH better than the old felt washers. I need to order another one as I got only three when I had the LT apart before. I canít remember if I just forgot that I needed 4 rather than 3 or if they came in a 3-pack and I just didnít bother to buy two packs. Anyway, the only joint that was at all dry was the one that did not have one of the new foam donuts.

Lastly, I noticed some corrosion around the ground strap from the engine to the ignition coil cover, at least I think the coils are behind that box. I decided to coat the bolt and area around the strap with some dielectric grease to minimize future corrosion. Here are a few pics of progress to date.

One question for the cognoscenti, I removed the pull bar and bushing that the EHCS actuator rod uses to pull down the centerstand. It appears to have nylon bushings and I am not sure greasing it is a good idea as it will pick up all sorts of dust down there, but seems like some lubricant is in order. My current plan is to squirt some silicone spray on it and call it good enough as that will dry and not hold grit. What have you all done at this joint? Anything at all?

Axle Feb 4th, 2019 5:13 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Interesting strap, my 02 doesn't have that, I would bolt it directly to the frame or motor rather than go through the box to earth, that could be why there is corrosion you have an overlapping surface, just a thought and why is there an earth strap from the motor, to the motor. you said "I noticed some corrosion around the ground strap from the engine to the ignition coil cover"

Voyager Feb 4th, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Axle (Post 1900599)
Interesting strap, my 02 doesn't have that, I would bolt it directly to the frame or motor rather than go through the box to earth, that could be why there is corrosion you have an overlapping surface, just a thought and why is there an earth strap from the motor, to the motor. you said "I noticed some corrosion around the ground strap from the engine to the ignition coil cover"

The fiche lists it as a “screening” for the coil. I assume this is what we would call “shielding” in the US. Probably meant to help reduce EMI/RFI from the ignition leads. Just a guess. You will have to ask BMW for a definitive answer.

Are you sure your 02 doesn’t have one? The fiche shows it on the 99-04 models as well as the 05-09.

bmwcoolk1200 Feb 4th, 2019 5:50 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
I didn't notice where the nylon bushings were when I refit my 01 with the EHCS but I am sure I used some grease on that pin right or wrong.

I also don't remember how grounded that cover is over the coil by itself so the strap may be needed for RFI.

That is about what my tranny plug looked like when I was looking for a reason to drop it again to look for that noise and touch the things I didn't know enough about to look at while it was apart the first time but it was so clean, it didn't provide the proper motivation so maybe in a week or so, I will get to my winter maintenance and decide to dive in.

Looking good so far Matt.

Voyager Feb 4th, 2019 7:24 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 (Post 1900609)
I didn't notice where the nylon bushings were when I refit my 01 with the EHCS but I am sure I used some grease on that pin right or wrong.

I also don't remember how grounded that cover is over the coil by itself so the strap may be needed for RFI.

That is about what my tranny plug looked like when I was looking for a reason to drop it again to look for that noise and touch the things I didn't know enough about to look at while it was apart the first time but it was so clean, it didn't provide the proper motivation so maybe in a week or so, I will get to my winter maintenance and decide to dive in.

Looking good so far Matt.

Yes, my motivation has been lacking also. I got the bike on the lift back in November and stripped most of the tupperware off so I could remove the seat to send to RDL, but there it has sat since then. Just seemed more interested in other things of late, but it got into the 50s today so that was enough to get me outside.

Interesting. I just checked the fiche and do not see these bushings listed. Mine are pressed into each end of the centerstand where pin #14 rides. They have a collar so that you press then from the inside towards the outside and then part #13 slips in between the inner flange of each bushing and pin #14 then goes through the bushings.

I checked the fiche for both centerstand and actuator and neither seems to list these bushings. That is odd as they appear to be the main wear item in this joint.

bmwcoolk1200 Feb 4th, 2019 8:05 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Voyager (Post 1900619)
Yes, my motivation has been lacking also. I got the bike on the lift back in November and stripped most of the tupperware off so I could remove the seat to send to RDL, but there it has sat since then. Just seemed more interested in other things of late, but it got into the 50s today so that was enough to get me outside.

Interesting. I just checked the fiche and do not see these bushings listed. Mine are pressed into each end of the centerstand where pin #14 rides. They have a collar so that you press then from the inside towards the outside and then part #13 slips in between the inner flange of each bushing and pin #14 then goes through the bushings.

I checked the fiche for both centerstand and actuator and neither seems to list these bushings. That is odd as they appear to be the main wear item in this joint.

That is where I figured they were after you mentioned it. I didn't notice them at all. I was more concerned with the actuator and getting that cleaned up and the galls fixed in the shaft from someones careless use of vise grips getting the nut off the end. I have the timing belt I need to do on my PT Cruiser as well as any winter bike maintenance. It has been too cold to be in the garage with only a small propane heater. Soon though.

Voyager Feb 4th, 2019 8:09 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 (Post 1900621)
That is where I figured they were after you mentioned it. I didn't notice them at all. I was more concerned with the actuator and getting that cleaned up and the galls fixed in the shaft from someones careless use of vise grips getting the nut off the end. I have the timing belt I need to do on my PT Cruiser as well as any winter bike maintenance. It has been too cold to be in the garage with only a small propane heater. Soon though.

Knowing BMW they probably only come if you buy the entire centerstand. Sort of like the latch handle on the top case... >:)

jzeiler Feb 4th, 2019 9:22 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
That grounding strap goes from the underside of the cylinder head to the box around the coils, which is rubber mounted to the intermediate case.

I just put a little light grease on the pin after I have cleaned the bushings.

Ricky Chuck Feb 4th, 2019 10:06 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
I don't have anything to add, I am just happy to see you going. I was 6 days away from embarking on a 5 week trip there in June, 2011 with two other friends when my dad died and I had to cancel. My '04 R Was customized, I had knobbier tires waiting in Fairbanks for the trip up to the Arctic Circle, five day ferry ride back to Washington, I think about that missed trip a lot :). Might get there before I am too geezered, lol, hope you can regale us regularly once you get going.

Actually I do have something to ask, not add, Gordon...when you mentioned your shifter linkage and felt donuts, can you elaborate? I took my shift linkage apart via Kirk's lube video but didn't notice anything that would be a washer type of thing...please explain, did you go inside the gear box or something?

bmwcoolk1200 Feb 4th, 2019 11:43 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricky Chuck (Post 1900637)
I don't have anything to add, I am just happy to see you going. I was 6 days away from embarking on a 5 week trip there in June, 2011 with two other friends when my dad died and I had to cancel. My '04 R Was customized, I had knobbier tires waiting in Fairbanks for the trip up to the Arctic Circle, five day ferry ride back to Washington, I think about that missed trip a lot :). Might get there before I am too geezered, lol, hope you can regale us regularly once you get going.

Actually I do have something to ask, not add, Gordon...when you mentioned your shifter linkage and felt donuts, can you elaborate? I took my shift linkage apart via Kirk's lube video but didn't notice anything that would be a washer type of thing...please explain, did you go inside the gear box or something?

I think it was Matt that mentioned the bushings when taking apart the linkage. Mine has none on it and had none when I got the bike ( 4th owner) so they disappeared somewhere along the line. There is supposed to be a rubber or as the fiche says, plastic bushing covering the ball end opening to keep the grease in and the dirt out. It is #11 on the diagram and picture. They deteriorate and some have used felt to replace them when too far gone to reuse, I just use a heavy grease and clean them at least once a year but I should go ahead and get some to replace or go with the PowerGrid upgraded link but they are more difficult to remove for any service but probably a lot stronger.

1 23 41 7 650 149 PLASTIC BUSH 3 $2.95

BMW K1200 LT/R1200 GS Shifter Linkage - Powergrid, Inc.

You need to be careful with the replacement from PowerGrid as there is a certain year where they changed from a 6mm shift lever only ball thread to an 8mm shift lever only ball thread #3 on the fiche and for whatever model you have, that replacement would have to match the ends you need to thread in. Ebay doesn't seem to list them any longer so a call would be in order to see if they are still manufacturing them for the LT and what to order, or just get the rubber bushings.

Ricky Chuck Feb 5th, 2019 12:12 am

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 (Post 1900645)
I think it was Matt that mentioned the bushings when taking apart the linkage. Mine has none on it and had none when I got the bike ( 4th owner) so they disappeared somewhere along the line. There is supposed to be a rubber or as the fiche says, plastic bushing covering the ball end opening to keep the grease in and the dirt out. It is #11 on the diagram and picture. They deteriorate and some have used felt to replace them when too far gone to reuse, I just use a heavy grease and clean them at least once a year but I should go ahead and get some to replace or go with the PowerGrid upgraded link but they are more difficult to remove for any service but probably a lot stronger.

1 23 41 7 650 149 PLASTIC BUSH 3 $2.95

BMW K1200 LT/R1200 GS Shifter Linkage - Powergrid, Inc.

You need to be careful with the replacement from PowerGrid as there is a certain year where they changed from a 6mm shift lever only ball thread to an 8mm shift lever only ball thread #3 on the fiche and for whatever model you have, that replacement would have to match the ends you need to thread in. Ebay doesn't seem to list them any longer so a call would be in order to see if they are still manufacturing them for the LT and what to order, or just get the rubber bushings.

OOPS, yeah got my Matts and Gordons confabulated, sorry :)


Great info, thx. Kirk never showed those in his video. I wonder if they roll down the shaft and you push them back up over the pin, hard to tell. That would keep some dirt out, possibly. I would like to see a picture of them installed.

Voyager Feb 5th, 2019 5:33 am

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricky Chuck (Post 1900647)
OOPS, yeah got my Matts and Gordons confabulated, sorry :)


Great info, thx. Kirk never showed those in his video. I wonder if they roll down the shaft and you push them back up over the pin, hard to tell. That would keep some dirt out, possibly. I would like to see a picture of them installed.

What an insult! To Gordon that is! :grin:

I will try to remember to take a picture of mine. The LT came new with felt washers to help keep out dirt and grit. At least my 07 came from the factory with felt. The felt was almost worse than worthless. The felt on mine absorbed water and held dirt and made a gritty mess around the linkage and really didnít seem to keep out much grit. And the felt isnít all that compliant compared to foam rubber.

When I ordered replacements a couple of years ago during my clutch repair, I received a newer style foam rubber donut. Unfortunately, the fiche listed only three and I didnít go out and look at the bike to check that I really needed four. For some reason, the fiche does not show nor list a count that includes the one on the arm of the transmission itself. So, I placed the three I had on the linkage starting at the transmission and working outward since the one on the shifter isthe easiest to get to to clean. My plan was to buy a replacement when I next had it apart ... which is now. So, I have one in my cart and will order it once I know what buckets and other sundry parts I need. Hopefully, nothing more than a bucket or two as so far the old girl is looking pretty good given her major surgery almost three years ago now.

Of course BMW charges $3 for a 30 cent part, but nothing new there. There may be similar parts available elsewhere, but for $3 I am not going to spend time looking.

To install them, I just push them over the ball on the linkage, then grease the ball and the socket and then press together and insert the locking pin/clip. Just try not to get grease on the donut itself as that will only attract dirt. And enough grease oozed out around mine to keep them more than lubricated and to attract some dirt so no need to overtly grease the donut, at least that is my opinion. I have found over the years that in areas that get a lot of dirt, like the underside of a motorcycle, less is more in the grease department. I think being a little dry is better than a grease and grit grinding compound.

Ricky Chuck Feb 5th, 2019 10:09 am

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Voyager (Post 1900655)
What an insult! To Gordon that is! :grin:

I will try to remember to take a picture of mine. The LT came new with felt washers to help keep out dirt and grit. At least my 07 came from the factory with felt. The felt was almost worse than worthless. The felt on mine absorbed water and held dirt and made a gritty mess around the linkage and really didnít seem to keep out much grit. And the felt isnít all that compliant compared to foam rubber.

When I ordered replacements a couple of years ago during my clutch repair, I received a newer style foam rubber donut. Unfortunately, the fiche listed only three and I didnít go out and look at the bike to check that I really needed four. For some reason, the fiche does not show nor list a count that includes the one on the arm of the transmission itself. So, I placed the three I had on the linkage starting at the transmission and working outward since the one on the shifter isthe easiest to get to to clean. My plan was to buy a replacement when I next had it apart ... which is now. So, I have one in my cart and will order it once I know what buckets and other sundry parts I need. Hopefully, nothing more than a bucket or two as so far the old girl is looking pretty good given her major surgery almost three years ago now.

Of course BMW charges $3 for a 30 cent part, but nothing new there. There may be similar parts available elsewhere, but for $3 I am not going to spend time looking.

To install them, I just push them over the ball on the linkage, then grease the ball and the socket and then press together and insert the locking pin/clip. Just try not to get grease on the donut itself as that will only attract dirt. And enough grease oozed out around mine to keep them more than lubricated and to attract some dirt so no need to overtly grease the donut, at least that is my opinion. I have found over the years that in areas that get a lot of dirt, like the underside of a motorcycle, less is more in the grease department. I think being a little dry is better than a grease and grit grinding compound.

Morning, Matt, lol, making cheat notes on all the names :). The balls and the receptacles were both pretty dry on mine, no grease just some grunge of dirt and grease residue mixed together, glad I saw the Kirk video on it. I paid 8 bucks each for two of those damper washers, lol. Back in the mid 80s when I had a Suzuki Cavalcade dresser I don't recall having or needing a damper on it and it was yuge, although I know it was lighter than the LT with its v4 engine.

Voyager Feb 5th, 2019 11:57 am

Re: Alaska preparation
 
2 Attachment(s)
Here are pictures of the foam rubber donuts that BMW currently sells for the shift linkage.

Voyager Feb 5th, 2019 12:09 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
3 Attachment(s)
Got the oil back in the transmission today and re-installed the centerstand and actuator. I used a ratchet strap to hold a little rearward pressure on the stand as I tightened the bolts to try to keep all slop to the rear to provide as much clearance as possible for the oil filter cover bolt. I did notice that the front of the EHCS sees very close to the sump. I donít recall it being that close before. Does anyone remember if yours is this close to the engine?

The front straps lined up fine with the holes, but I am wondering if I may have bent it upwards a little bit. I did hit a bump some time ago that caused the skid plate to bottom, but it wasnít a super hard hit and didnít even dent the skid plate so I didnít think too much of it.

Ricky Chuck Feb 5th, 2019 12:37 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Matt, have you made the trip before? I never got there as mentioned, however I planned the whole route for six months so I feel as if I did go, lol, especially with the daily live updates from my buds. Are you going to the Arctic Circle or staying down south of Fairbanks? I think the whole trip will be pretty civilized if not somewhat rustic if you take the north route across Canada. My buds said the only things they hated were the long stops at construction zones, the pea and larger gravel they used for fill and the stuff they used to keep the dust down on the dirt portions on the AC route...like riding on molten plastic at times they said. Lots of standing up, so practice your standing and keep everything as low on the bike as possible, lol. Dang, I really need to move a trip like this higher on my bucket list.

Voyager Feb 5th, 2019 12:41 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
2 Attachment(s)
My work got a little more extensive as I have two valves out of spec and four right on the low limit: 2 intake and 2 exhaust. This is the first adjustment I have had to make since the 27,000 mile adjustment so I guess that isn’t too bad for nearly 50,000 miles. I probably could let the exhaust cam go another cycle, but I prefer to not let the clearances get too tight and risk burning a valve. And as long as I have the slack out of the chain and have to remove one cam, not much more work to remove the other.

The odd part is that my intakes seem to wear faster than my exhaust valves which hasn’t been my experience with other engines.

The cams looked pretty good, but I do see a few small smears on a couple of the lobes. Not sure the cause, but looks like maybe a little dirt or something got on them. It doesn’t look significant enough to cause any issues. Now off to order 2.65 and 2.75 buckets.

Voyager Feb 5th, 2019 1:02 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricky Chuck (Post 1900715)
Matt, have you made the trip before? I never got there as mentioned, however I planned the whole route for six months so I feel as if I did go, lol, especially with the daily live updates from my buds. Are you going to the Arctic Circle or staying down south of Fairbanks? I think the whole trip will be pretty civilized if not somewhat rustic if you take the north route across Canada. My buds said the only things they hated were the long stops at construction zones, the pea and larger gravel they used for fill and the stuff they used to keep the dust down on the dirt portions on the AC route...like riding on molten plastic at times they said. Lots of standing up, so practice your standing and keep everything as low on the bike as possible, lol. Dang, I really need to move a trip like this higher on my bucket list.

No. We went to Alaska on a Princess cruisetour in 2008. We flew to Prudhoe Bay and then rode a bus down the haul road and flew home from Anchorage.

I had originally planned to ride to Deadhorse. My wife was going to spend a few days in Fairbanks while I rode a rental up the haul road. However, that would require 6 weeks and I have only 5 available this year. I spoke with someone who rode the Dalton several years ago (see the BWOM youtube channel - RIP billmaa) and he said he would not hesitate to ride his Hayabusa as far as the Arctic Circle. So, the plan is to ride to Fairbanks and call an audible on the Arctic Circle sign ride based on weather, road conditions and such. Then loop down to Anchorage and then back via Glacier National Park. We rode to GNP two years ago, but the Going to the Sun road was closed due to fires so I am hoping to get through it this year. We shall see how things go.

Ricky Chuck Feb 5th, 2019 1:25 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Voyager (Post 1900719)
No. We went to Alaska on a Princess cruisetour in 2008. We flew to Prudhoe Bay and then rode a bus down the haul road and flew home from Anchorage.

I had originally planned to ride to Deadhorse. My wife was going to spend a few days in Fairbanks while I rode a rental up the haul road. However, that would require 6 weeks and I have only 5 available this year. I spoke with someone who rode the Dalton several years ago (see the BWOM youtube channel - RIP billmaa) and he said he would not hesitate to ride his Hayabusa as far as the Arctic Circle. So, the plan is to ride to Fairbanks and call an audible on the Arctic Circle sign ride based on weather, road conditions and such. Then loop down to Anchorage and then back via Glacier National Park. We rode to GNP two years ago, but the Going to the Sun road was closed due to fires so I am hoping to get through it this year. We shall see how things go.

Ship your KLR up there, take it to the top and then ship it back, lol. I have friends at church trying to talk me into getting one and trailering it to Death Valley with them every Fall...it sounds fun but could also be my 22 year old brain writing a check my 62 year old knees might have trouble cashing, lol.

It all sounds like a lot of fun. My guys said the inland ferry ride back to Bellingham was time well spent letting butts and muscles heal :).

jzeiler Feb 5th, 2019 1:26 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Voyager (Post 1900709)
Does anyone remember if yours is this close to the engine?

The front straps lined up fine with the holes, but I am wondering if I may have bent it upwards a little bit. I did hit a bump some time ago that caused the skid plate to bottom, but it wasn’t a super hard hit and didn’t even dent the skid plate so I didn’t think too much of it.

I suspect a good hit on the under rider is the case. I have seen several that were that close and just as many that were not. This under rider (05 +) has a larger lever arm than the early under riders and less support at the front. I would think it is more vulnerable to impact distortion.

In 110,000 I adjusted 8 intakes and one exhaust with the first ones at 48 K on my bike. I have seen tight intakes (1 @ .0015 and four @.002) and the engine was running fine on another bike.

Ksnarf Feb 5th, 2019 3:20 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
This is all great information and this is a trip I have been pondering myself for the last couple years. On my last major trip my shift linkage snapped so I will absolutely be ordering one of the aftermarket ones.

Out of curiosity, where are you going in Alaska? I know a few people go as far as the border crossing and grab a hotel where as others run up the Dalton until the gravel stops them.

.Kris

Voyager Feb 5th, 2019 3:35 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jzeiler (Post 1900725)
I suspect a good hit on the under rider is the case. I have seen several that were that close and just as many that were not. This under rider (05 +) has a larger lever arm than the early under riders and less support at the front. I would think it is more vulnerable to impact distortion.

In 110,000 I adjusted 8 intakes and one exhaust with the first ones at 48 K on my bike. I have seen tight intakes (1 @ .0015 and four @.002) and the engine was running fine on another bike.

I am probably overly conservative in this regard, but I figure if I get them all as close as possible to the upper limit when I have to bother to remove the cams, if I get busy and miss a check sometime I have that extra margin available. And most engines I have seen that burned the valves due to lack of clearance gave absolutely no warning until the valves were so eroded that the compression took a big hit.

My compression feels strong subjectively as it is still a bear to rotate the engine with the rear wheel against the compression. I am not sure that removing the spark plugs is that big a risk, but I figure this recommendation from BMW probably came from an experience where a carbon particle did get pinched between valve and seat and cause a bad bucket change. So, I follow the book and fight the compression.

Well, about time to order the buckets so that tomorrow I will find another part I wished I had ordered! :grin:

I was surprised how much the bucket prices have increased since I last changed the valves. $34 a pop now.

Voyager Feb 5th, 2019 3:37 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksnarf (Post 1900737)
This is all great information and this is a trip I have been pondering myself for the last couple years. On my last major trip my shift linkage snapped so I will absolutely be ordering one of the aftermarket ones.

Out of curiosity, where are you going in Alaska? I know a few people go as far as the border crossing and grab a hotel where as others run up the Dalton until the gravel stops them.

.Kris

Jump back to post #18.

Voyager Feb 5th, 2019 3:42 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jzeiler (Post 1900725)
I suspect a good hit on the under rider is the case. I have seen several that were that close and just as many that were not. This under rider (05 +) has a larger lever arm than the early under riders and less support at the front. I would think it is more vulnerable to impact distortion.

In 110,000 I adjusted 8 intakes and one exhaust with the first ones at 48 K on my bike. I have seen tight intakes (1 @ .0015 and four @.002) and the engine was running fine on another bike.

I suspect I bent mine a little. I am surprised though that the front arms still lined up with the holes without having to pry on the frame. I will see if I got the centerstand and EHCS mount far enough to the rear to allow oil changes without having to remove the EHCS each time. That gets old. I may have to try to bend the frame back down or take a hammer to that front tube and dent it a little to allow passage for the rear filter over screw.

I am not sure how to fixture it to try to bend it back. Don’t want to do it on the bike and risk breaking the transmission casting. Maybe take it to a local welder and apply some heat and then repaint it.

Voyager Feb 7th, 2019 12:19 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
8 Attachment(s)
Well, spent a couple of hours this morning in the garage. As usual with the LT, it was good news/bad news and the LT has maintained its trend since new of never having a maintenance only event. At least one repair is always required.

I had been hearing a troublesome squeak as I mounted or dismounted the bike the last few riding months last year. I suspected it was the bronze bushings in the FD and I was unfortunately correct. They were not only dry this time, but the right side had pretty much become one with the pin, but first the good news.

I drained the FD as I had not changed the oil since the clutch work nearly 20,000 miles ago. The gear oil looked like new. Very clean. And the drain plug barely had any residue on it. It appears that after 47,000 miles the Tom Cutter rebuild is holding up extremely well.

The attached pictures tell the story pretty well. After the good news on the FD oil, I got the bad news when I tried to remove the FD. The left locknut broke loose almost too easily. I used a 1/2” breaker bar, but it did not take all that much force to break it loose. Similarly, the left pin came out pretty easily. As is normal with these bronze bushings, there is some extra force when they hit against the swing arm since they are too big to come through the hole, but it was not excessive on the left side.

The right side was a different story altogether. I gave a pretty hard push on the breaker bar with no luck. So, out came the heat gun and I heated this up quite well and then the pin broke loose with a good tug on the breaker bar. However, after three or four revolutions, the pin locked up tight as the bushing hit the swing-arm. I turned it pretty hard before getting concerned about stripping the swing-arm threads. So, I sprayed penetrating oil all over the threads of the pin, both inside and outside and worked the pin back and forth a few times to try to get the threads well lubed. I wanted to minimize the torque on these threads and lessen the chance of galling them or pulling them out.

I added more heat and kept working the pin in and out. After about an hour of this, I decided that the swing arm was likely going to have to sacrifice itself as the pin did not seem to be coming out any farther and would lock up pretty tight as soon as the bronze bushing hit the swing arm. So, resigned to buying another swingarm, I gave the breaker bar a good push. I got that funny “yielded metal” feeling as something let loose. I figured odds were that the threads had parted company with the swing-arm. However, the pin then turned pretty easily the rest of the way, which is usually not the case when threads fail and no aluminum came out with the pin. I suspect that as the bushings became more bound up on the pins, the were twisting the pins forward on each hard bump which tended to loosen the left pin, but tighten the right. At least that is my theory.

As I was cleaning up the swing arm, I caught my finger on the inside edge of the right hole and noticed that the innermost thread had separated. In looking at it as closely as I can with the phone, it appears that only the innermost thread is damaged so I don’t think that will compromise the swing-arm significantly. I think I can cut it off with a sharp knife and it will be good to go.

Well, the JL bushing experiment was a complete bust. The pins are pretty well damaged so I will replace those and see if I can find the thread that mentioned a more reasonably priced source of OEM-style bearings. Now the fun part of trying to drive the races out of the FD...

Oh, one more bit of good news. The rear EBC disc is holding up extremely well also. Well, off to look up the pin part numbers.

jzeiler Feb 7th, 2019 1:13 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
And that is why I never used loctite on those bronze bushings (not in compliance with the instructions), I wanted to be able to remove the pins and I knew the bushings were to big to go through the holes. Glad you got them out OK. I think you will be fine with that swing arm the way it as well.

I pull my races out with a length of all thread and two large sockets, one that clears the race on the outside (32 mm) and one the is just big enough (7/8) to engage the race on the inside. I also install the races with the same all thread but have some custom aluminum pucks to pull the races into the drive.

On the other hand I put another 150 miles on the LT today and I am happy to say that after 320 total miles since the re-ring the oil is still right at the center of the sight glass. Looks like the rings have seated just fine. I couldn't go more than 250 miles before with out adding 200 or more ml of oil. Now to get ready for the 50 degree drop in temperature tomorrow, my ride today was a balmy 67-74.

Voyager Feb 7th, 2019 1:22 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jzeiler (Post 1900825)
And that is why I never used loctite on those bronze bushings (not in compliance with the instructions), I wanted to be able to remove the pins and I knew the bushings were to big to go through the holes. Glad you got them out OK. I think you will be fine with that swing arm the way it as well.

I pull my races out with a length of all thread and two large sockets, one that clears the race on the outside (32 mm) and one the is just big enough (7/8) to engage the race on the inside. I also install the races with the same all thread but have some custom aluminum pucks to pull the races into the drive.

On the other hand I put another 150 miles on the LT today and I am happy to say that after 320 total miles since the re-ring the oil is still right at the center of the sight glass. Looks like the rings have seated just fine. I couldn't go more than 250 miles before with out adding 200 or more ml of oil. Now to get ready for the 50 degree drop in temperature tomorrow, my ride today was a balmy 67-74.

That is great news on the engine. Always nice to get rewarded for the effort of a large job like that.

I’ve got a length of 3/8” threaded rod from a recent plumbing job so if I can find some large washers and nuts, that should work well to remove and install the races. I need to go through my old parts box as i almost think Tom Cutter returned my old bearings when he installed the bronze bushings. If they look in good shape, I see no reason not to re-use them rather than paying well over $100 for even the EME replacements. The BMW parts are now over $100 each!

I don’t think the Loctite was the issue this time. It looks like the bushings dried out and then started oscillating on the pins. That galled the pins and nearly fused the bushing to the pin. In the past, with good heat, the pins would easily turn out even with the Loctite on them. These bushings are just a bad idea.

bmwcoolk1200 Feb 7th, 2019 2:08 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Voyager (Post 1900827)
That is great news on the engine. Always nice to get rewarded for the effort of a large job like that.

Iíve got a length of 3/8Ē threaded rod from a recent plumbing job so if I can find some large washers and nuts, that should work well to remove and install the races. I need to go through my old parts box as i almost think Tom Cutter returned my old bearings when he installed the bronze bushings. If they look in good shape, I see no reason not to re-use them rather than paying well over $100 for even the EME replacements. The BMW parts are now over $100 each!

I donít think the Loctite was the issue this time. It looks like the bushings dried out and then started oscillating on the pins. That galled the pins and nearly fused the bushing to the pin. In the past, with good heat, the pins would easily turn out even with the Loctite on them. These bushings are just a bad idea.

The Emerald Island bushings have the advantage of lubrication without removal so I hope they hold up better than the rubber ducklings and the OEM . Only time will tell.

Voyager Feb 7th, 2019 6:20 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 (Post 1900829)
The Emerald Island bushings have the advantage of lubrication without removal so I hope they hold up better than the rubber ducklings and the OEM . Only time will tell.

I hope so also. However, I was one early adopter guinea pig and it didn’t go well, so I will let others blaze the trail this time. :grin:

I ordered one replacement bearing from EME via ebay for $44 + shipping, but it said LAST ONE and would only let me add 1 to the cart. So, I had to go to the EME web site and order the second one for $60 + shipping. Bummer! The pins were $38 each so the JL bushing experiment cost me the price of the bushings originally as well as the cost of new pins and now new bearings.

I found the used parts Tom returned to me, but unfortunately, there was only one serviceable bearing and even that looked sketchy as I could see dents in the race where it was driven out. I would have used it in a pinch, but better to go with new. The other original bearing was missing one roller and the second race was missing entirely, so I am thinking it either was damaged during removal or simply got lost. Oh well, better to just go all new and be done with it even at nearly $200 all in.

I am wondering what other surprises the next few weeks will uncover? I have a conference to attend for the next several days so maybe I will have some parts here when I return. Just happy to not be looking for a new swingarm. I noticed that new ones are $1300 from Bring More Wallet.

The good news is that the driveshaft and FD splines still look like new after 74 K so that is a bonus. :smile:

niel_petersen Feb 7th, 2019 8:05 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
FWIW - A personal opinion is to be careful not to over preload the new swing arm bearings. If anything you want them set so that there is the very tiniest amount of clearance that you can feel when you are done.

Voyager Feb 7th, 2019 8:41 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by niel_petersen (Post 1900849)
FWIW - A personal opinion is to be careful not to over preload the new swing arm bearings. If anything you want them set so that there is the very tiniest amount of clearance that you can feel when you are done.

Yes, I think it is a delicate balance. Generally, you donít want much if any play in a dynamic component like this, but these bearings are small and certainly donít need a lot of preload to add to the already significant loads from a bike the weight of the LT. I will probably follow the BMW preload procedure, but maybe err on the light side.

bmwcoolk1200 Feb 7th, 2019 9:08 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Voyager (Post 1900855)
Yes, I think it is a delicate balance. Generally, you donít want much if any play in a dynamic component like this, but these bearings are small and certainly donít need a lot of preload to add to the already significant loads from a bike the weight of the LT. I will probably follow the BMW preload procedure, but maybe err on the light side.


If I still had them or if I go back, I would follow the OEM spec for tightening. It has to be tight enough to seat both sides. Too loose and any wear may lead to being loose and start banging against the race which would I think be worse than remaining in contact. Too tight would be probably just as bad. We know they wear divots in the races even done properly over time.

Voyager Feb 8th, 2019 6:51 am

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 (Post 1900857)
If I still had them or if I go back, I would follow the OEM spec for tightening. It has to be tight enough to seat both sides. Too loose and any wear may lead to being loose and start banging against the race which would I think be worse than remaining in contact. Too tight would be probably just as bad. We know they wear divots in the races even done properly over time.

Yes, I think the divots are going to happen no matter what given the oscillatory rather than rotary motion. I think the bearings would have to be much larger and less stressed to handle the oscillation motion without causing divots. I am sure the divots will impede motion much less than the dry bronze bushings. It took probably 60 lbs or force or more to rotate my FD before I took it off. When I removed the lower control arm, the FD didnít even budge. I had to really torque on it to move it and it made the tell-tale squeak when I did get it to move. My rear suspension will be much more compliant again when I get the new pins and bearings in. I am just resigned now to removing the FD every 24K maintenance cycle to clean and lube the bearings.

On another topic, anyone have thoughts on what grease to use? I used the Honda Moly 60 before as that is what Tom Cutter supplied with my bronze bushings. This seems like a pretty thin grease though and did not seem to stay in the bushings very well. I am wondering if plain old axle grease might be the best bet for the roller bearings since they are much like the wheel bearings on a car. That grease is heavy bodied and tends to stay in place.

Saddleman, what do you use? I know you are one who has stayed with the OEM bearings in your machines.

bmwcoolk1200 Feb 8th, 2019 8:18 am

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Voyager (Post 1900865)
Yes, I think the divots are going to happen no matter what given the oscillatory rather than rotary motion. I think the bearings would have to be much larger and less stressed to handle the oscillation motion without causing divots. I am sure the divots will impede motion much less than the dry bronze bushings. It took probably 60 lbs or force or more to rotate my FD before I took it off. When I removed the lower control arm, the FD didnít even budge. I had to really torque on it to move it and it made the tell-tale squeak when I did get it to move. My rear suspension will be much more compliant again when I get the new pins and bearings in. I am just resigned now to removing the FD every 24K maintenance cycle to clean and lube the bearings.

On another topic, anyone have thoughts on what grease to use? I used the Honda Moly 60 before as that is what Tom Cutter supplied with my bronze bushings. This seems like a pretty thin grease though and did not seem to stay in the bushings very well. I am wondering if plain old axle grease might be the best bet for the roller bearings since they are much like the wheel bearings on a car. That grease is heavy bodied and tends to stay in place.

Saddleman, what do you use? I know you are one who has stayed with the OEM bearings in your machines.

The motion is more like the splines than a bearing so I decided to use my Castrol Optimol TA paste. I bought a 100 gram tube a few years ago for my splines. It is thick enough to stay where you put it. The Honda Molly 60 may be similar. Looked up the part number I ordered from MAX. It was $30.98 then.

18219062599 CASTROL OPTIMOL PASTE TA 0.25 1 $15.96

Cheaper now.

Scouter-50 Feb 8th, 2019 8:22 am

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Voyager (Post 1900865)
Yes, I think the divots are going to happen no matter what given the oscillatory rather than rotary motion. I think the bearings would have to be much larger and less stressed to handle the oscillation motion without causing divots. I am sure the divots will impede motion much less than the dry bronze bushings. It took probably 60 lbs or force or more to rotate my FD before I took it off. When I removed the lower control arm, the FD didnít even budge. I had to really torque on it to move it and it made the tell-tale squeak when I did get it to move. My rear suspension will be much more compliant again when I get the new pins and bearings in. I am just resigned now to removing the FD every 24K maintenance cycle to clean and lube the bearings.

On another topic, anyone have thoughts on what grease to use? I used the Honda Moly 60 before as that is what Tom Cutter supplied with my bronze bushings. This seems like a pretty thin grease though and did not seem to stay in the bushings very well. I am wondering if plain old axle grease might be the best bet for the roller bearings since they are much like the wheel bearings on a car. That grease is heavy bodied and tends to stay in place.

Saddleman, what do you use? I know you are one who has stayed with the OEM bearings in your machines.

Matt, when he shipped mine back to me he used ****** blue grease. Hope that helps. Robert

Scouter-50 Feb 8th, 2019 8:23 am

Re: Alaska preparation
 
A.M.Z.O.I.L

Voyager Feb 8th, 2019 8:50 am

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scouter-50 (Post 1900873)
A.M.Z.O.I.L

I was guessing that!

I have been reading up in bearing selection and it appears that most bearing makers recommend a “full complement” roller bearing for oscillatory applications rather than the caged roller bearing that BMW specified. Too bad I can’t find a tapered, full complement roller bearing in the right size. That would be worth a try.

saddleman Feb 10th, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Voyager (Post 1900865)
Saddleman, what do you use? I know you are one who has stayed with the OEM bearings in your machines.

I was using Ams waterproof blue grease until I ran out & the dealer I bought it from moved to Texas. I now use Omni Lubricants Waterproof Green Grease from Advance Auto. The most damage I have seen on the pivot pin bearings is from water. I have cut my tube down a little so I couldn't get a full tube picture.

I'll post some pictures of measuring the wear on the bearing race in a few days.

Voyager Feb 15th, 2019 6:10 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
3 Attachment(s)
Well, my BMW parts all arrived: the two pivot bearings from EME and the new BMW pins. I got the old races out pretty easy using sockets and threaded rod. I tried to install the new races that way, but could not get them to go straight so I used the old fashioned socket and ball peen hammer method and they both went in nicely. I then popped the inner races in to feel that nice smooth rotary motion and had an unpleasant surprise. In hindsight, I should have checked the bearings before I installed the races, but I have never had a bad new bearing before, let alone two of them so the thought never crossed my mind.

After I popped the first inner race into the outer race and spun it with my finger, the bearing spun quite smoothly counterclockwise, but was notchey in the CW direction. I popped the race out and the cage and bearings spun both ways fine using my finger and I checked for debris and saw none. Put the race back in and got the same behavior. I then tried the other bearing as I figured both couldnít be bad. And it does the exact same thing! It spins CCW fine, but catches going CW. They both act almost like sprag clutches!

I have no idea what might cause this as nothing looks amiss visually. It feels almost like the plastic cage is binding against the rollers in one direction, but not the other. I have never seen this behavior before in a bearing. I suspect the bearings are Chinese. I can see no markings on them anywhere. I will contact EME, but at this time I CANíT recommend that anyone buy these EME bearings. I will let you all know what I find out. I am afraid if I leave them in the races will spin on the pins or in the housing and cause issues there.

Interestingly, and I have never had the races out before to look at the bearing race bore, but you can see imprints from the force transferred through the rollers and outer race. Has anyone else noticed these marks in the FD housing when the races are out?

Anyone have any theories on these ďone wayĒ tapered roller bearings?

I am attaching pictures of the race bores with there marks and a link that will hopefully go to a video uploaded to Youtube showing the behavior. The video isnít the greatest as I was holding the camera by hand and trying to show the bearing rotation.


bmwcoolk1200 Feb 15th, 2019 8:50 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Voyager (Post 1901497)

Wow, that is really odd. If the race was distorting, I would think that it would bind in both directions. Both my FD looked did not have any lines like that. Did you use heat to install or just drive them in cold? I have done both.

Voyager Feb 15th, 2019 9:20 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 (Post 1901505)
Wow, that is really odd. If the race was distorting, I would think that it would bind in both directions. Both my FD looked did not have any lines like that. Did you use heat to install or just drive them in cold? I have done both.

I heated the housing and chilled the bearings, then drove them in. They went in fairly nicely with moderate level of tapping. No excessive force was required.

bmwcoolk1200 Feb 15th, 2019 10:07 pm

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Voyager (Post 1901509)
I heated the housing and chilled the bearings, then drove them in. They went in fairly nicely with moderate level of tapping. No excessive force was required.

Just watched again and with that much resistance, I would think something would be visible. Do you have an old bearing you can try in the new installed race to see if it does the same thing? Do both new bearings do the same thing in either side?

Edit: just went out and found the 3/4 of a set that came with my spare FD. They are marked FAG.

sailor Feb 16th, 2019 6:03 am

Re: Alaska preparation
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Voyager (Post 1901497)
Well, my BMW parts all arrived: the two pivot bearings from EME and the new BMW pins. I got the old races out pretty easy using sockets and threaded rod. I tried to install the new races that way, but could not get them to go straight so I used the old fashioned socket and ball peen hammer method and they both went in nicely. I then popped the inner races in to feel that nice smooth rotary motion and had an unpleasant surprise. In hindsight, I should have checked the bearings before I installed the races, but I have never had a bad new bearing before, let alone two of them so the thought never crossed my mind.
...
....
I have no idea what might cause this as nothing looks amiss visually. It feels almost like the plastic cage is binding against the rollers in one direction, but not the other. I have never seen this behavior before in a bearing. I suspect the bearings are Chinese. I can see no markings on them anywhere.
...
....

I have in past see similar pivot bearing replacement (with NO markings) sold from an aftermarket supplier in Europe (not EME). In fact I have a brand new set here AND they behave somewhat like you describe - although I have some doubts unless we compare yours and mine side by side. I never posted this supplier here as he is not really well known from BMW customer in North-America. A lot of his stuff is OK, but not the Pivot-Bearings.

HOWEVER, when I posted to the forums that EME was selling Pivot Bearings at a good price, I assumed they were selling what was shown on the picture of their web site - real FAG bearings. Given the reputation they have, I cannot understand how they could do this: show original FAG on the web page BUT deliver "no-name" China stuff. I hope this is not the case and they will fix this...

I have embedded a photo (screen shot) from their web page as documentation of what they are advertising as of today.

Voyager Feb 16th, 2019 6:46 am

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 (Post 1901513)
Just watched again and with that much resistance, I would think something would be visible. Do you have an old bearing you can try in the new installed race to see if it does the same thing? Do both new bearings do the same thing in either side?

Edit: just went out and found the 3/4 of a set that came with my spare FD. They are marked FAG.

Yes, both act the same way. They go CCW, but not CW. My only theory is casting flash on the plastic bearing cage. It acts as though it it binds against the bearings in one direction, but not the other. I have never seen anything like it.

Yes, my OEM bearings were FAG also.

Voyager Feb 16th, 2019 6:55 am

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sailor (Post 1901521)
I have in past see similar pivot bearing replacement (with NO markings) sold from an aftermarket supplier in Europe (not EME). In fact I have a brand new set here set here and they behave somewhat like you describe - although I have some doubts unless we compare yours and mine side by side.

HOWEVER, when I posted to the forums that EME was selling Pivot Bearings at a good price, I assumed they were selling what what shown on the picture of their web site - real FAG bearings. Given the reputation they have, I cannot understand how they could do this: show original FAG on the web page BUT deliver "no-name" China stuff. Certainly I hope this is not the case and they will fix this...

I have embedded a photo (screen shot) from their web page as documentation of what they are advertising as of today.

Yes, I remember seeing that picture or one similar. The only thing that gave me pause was the picture I saw said FAG Czech, but I figured I could trust Czech made bearings, but I am pretty sure those shipped to me are made in China as that is typically the case for parts that have no visible markings. I will probably press them back out this afternoon and take a closer look, but I did not see any markings when I gave them a cursory look before pressing them in.

I sent an email to EME last night, but don’t expect to hear back until next week. If they are using Chinese bearings, I will ask for a refund and swallow hard and send $200 to BMW.

saddleman Feb 16th, 2019 8:44 am

Re: Alaska preparation
 
The witness marks on the housing from the roller needles is very common.

Voyager Feb 16th, 2019 9:29 am

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by saddleman (Post 1901529)
The witness marks on the housing from the roller needles is very common.

Thanks, Dave. I suspected that given the high loading of these bearings, but it is nice to have confirmation.

Now if I can just get EME to take back the cheap bearings they sold me. :smile:

bmwcoolk1200 Feb 16th, 2019 9:45 am

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Voyager (Post 1901533)
Thanks, Dave. I suspected that given the high loading of these bearings, but it is nice to have confirmation.

Now if I can just get EME to take back the cheap bearings they sold me. :smile:

You might as well join the Emerald Island test crew at that price and just lube them up occasionally. No disassembly required :grin:

Voyager Feb 16th, 2019 9:47 am

Re: Alaska preparation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 (Post 1901537)
You might as well join the Emerald Island test crew at that price and just lube them up occasionally. No disassembly required :grin:

Nope, no more bushing style solutions for me. Bearings only and quality bearings at that. :grin:

Based on the research I did after the dramatic failure of the bronze bushings, the only thing I think would be better than the BMW style FAG bearings would be a “full complement” style bearing with no cage and “wall to wall” rollers. That is what seems to be the most prevalent engineering recommendation for oscillatory motion.

alabrew Feb 16th, 2019 10:38 am

Re: Alaska preparation
 
EME emailed me on a Sunday night when I had a problem with the fuel pump damper on the '85 K100. They replaced all the parts it even though it was out side the normal warranty period.


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