I decided to ring in the new year with new rings - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 66 Old Dec 30th, 2018, 4:11 pm Thread Starter
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I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

I have been putting this off for a while now and decided to just jump in there today. I took my time as I pulled the old girl apart and made several notes for the order of how to re-install. My memory is not what it used to be so I also took pictures.

I documented all the clamp positions so I can quickly button here up with no throttle binding. I also made a reminder for leaving the inner radiator mounts ON the radiator and remove them from the frame mount. Just makes it easier to get them out and back in. Also the order in which the fans come out, removal of the left engine mount to get the water elbow out after the TBs have been removed.

Found a really neat item to keep all the valve stuff sorted out and clean of dust. The big pack was at Costco and the candy is also very good. This will hold the buckets, valve springs and keepers when I break down the head for a clean up. Below that is the tray I put the cams and gears into.

Got the her ready for tomorrow when I will pull the crankcase cover, timing cover and cylinder head.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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Last edited by jzeiler; Dec 30th, 2018 at 8:26 pm.
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post #2 of 66 Old Dec 30th, 2018, 4:55 pm
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Red face Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

Good thinking on the candy box John, keep the pictures coming, I love a good rebuild.

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post #3 of 66 Old Dec 30th, 2018, 8:21 pm
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

Yes I love hard work. I could watch it for hours.
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post #4 of 66 Old Dec 30th, 2018, 8:53 pm
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

If you didn't get a chance to test your new ring sleeve, I am curious on how well it works. Looking good so far. As already requested, keep the pics coming and hopefully the Nikasil is still on good shape.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
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post #5 of 66 Old Dec 31st, 2018, 7:48 am Thread Starter
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

Yes I tested the piston insertion tool I had made on an old junk engine. Works like a charm and that is why I decided to go in now.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #6 of 66 Old Dec 31st, 2018, 11:59 am Thread Starter
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

Next update. Got the timing cover off and looked at the chain guides. BMW recommends replacing these at 36,000 miles intervals. But at 110,000 there is very little wear. None the less I am in there and the kit to do it was less than $45.

Got the cylinder head off and found there was a ring of carbon built up at the top of the cylinders. I have to remove that as it is just like a ridge on a conventional cast iron cylinder. Once cleaned up the piston comes out easily.

I was happy to say the #1 big end bearing looked brand new with no wear I could see and the crank journal was also pristine. The way the oil feeds this engine #1 is the first to show damage during oil starvation.

Since I could not get any wrist pin clips (none in the US) I am soaking the piston tops in the Gunk Brand carburetor bulk cleaner with the rods still attached. I think it is better that way as the clips are not easy to remove and install.

Side by side comparison with my 110 K piston and two of the pistons from my friends 100 K damaged engine. I was happy to see the ring lands were not damaged at all.

Now to get after the rest of the pistons.
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2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
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2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #7 of 66 Old Dec 31st, 2018, 12:13 pm
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

From this angle, the Nikasil looks good. Unless you already cleaned them up, I am guessing that your oil consumption was coming from the back two cylinders.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #8 of 66 Old Dec 31st, 2018, 2:14 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

They are all about even and yes I had already cleaned #1. At this rate I'll have the head ready to go to Southern Cylinder Head on Wednesday and have all the pistons back in before it gets back.

Of course it is just my luck we are under a tornado watch and Jean won't let me bring all the parts into the shelter.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
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2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #9 of 66 Old Dec 31st, 2018, 3:35 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

OK here is one for engine builders out there. I noticed (and felt slightly) a waviness near the top of #2 cylinder. It is smooth and there is nothing I can do about it but I have never seen this before. #3 has a smaller area and #1 & 4 do not have it.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #10 of 66 Old Dec 31st, 2018, 4:04 pm
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
OK here is one for engine builders out there. I noticed (and felt slightly) a waviness near the top of #2 cylinder. It is smooth and there is nothing I can do about it but I have never seen this before. #3 has a smaller area and #1 & 4 do not have it.
I have never had a Nikasil engine apart so I have no experience to offer. Those waves appear to be circumferential rather than axial, which is interesting. I have see axial waviness at the top of the stroke where the rings change direction, but never circumferential waviness. I would guess it is an uneven hardness in the Nikasil coating, but that is an absolute SWAG.

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Last edited by Voyager; Dec 31st, 2018 at 6:32 pm.
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post #11 of 66 Old Dec 31st, 2018, 4:51 pm
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

How do those piston look on that side? Wondering if it may be caused by blow by super heating those areas. Same boat as Matt, no Nikasil experience so another swag.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #12 of 66 Old Jan 1st, 2019, 10:03 am
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
OK here is one for engine builders out there. I noticed (and felt slightly) a waviness near the top of #2 cylinder. It is smooth and there is nothing I can do about it but I have never seen this before. #3 has a smaller area and #1 & 4 do not have it.
Was there carbon build up on the piston between the top ring land & the top of the piston in the area on the cylinder wall ?.

Dave Selvig
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2000 Canon Red LT



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post #13 of 66 Old Jan 1st, 2019, 4:19 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

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Was there carbon build up on the piston between the top ring land & the top of the piston in the area on the cylinder wall ?.
There was a small amount but #1 had that as well. I did find that the ring end gaps were very close together on 2,3 & 4 and at the top of the piston. Wasn't really looking at #1 at the time. Could be why she was using oil. I did check ring end gaps on #1 old piston and it was in the "new" range of 0.2 - 0.4 mm but closer to 0.4 (gauge was 0.385). New ring was closer to 0.2.

I have the head all ready to go to the shop tomorrow for clean up and assessment. I removed springs and guide seals to make it easier for the shop. My home made spring compressor works like a champ.

#1 is fully cleaned, rings installed and oiled up. I am storing them in gallon zip slider bags. Ready to go back into the block.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
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2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
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Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #14 of 66 Old Jan 1st, 2019, 8:44 pm
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

They don't look too bad in that respect. I might take a compression ring and put it in over the suspected area and then look to see if there is any light visible . Either something was wearing oddly in those areas or the Nikasil is coming loose from behind if there is a gap large enough for light to pass. Was not able to find a similar picture, only ones that were after a failure and the cause of this particular one is not known but I see it is in the same general location as your waviness and seems to have failed in a similar circumferential pattern as Matt mentioned. The scoring and loss of Nikasil material makes it difficult to compare. Looking forward to further comment by Dave.
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Gordon
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post #15 of 66 Old Jan 3rd, 2019, 4:47 pm
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

I have witnessed something close to that on hayabusa's but in a far far more extreme application where turbo or nitrous was used. I always thought it was a hot spot due to the heat. But that doesn't really apply here unless carbon build up with a lean condition was at play.

I have NO experience with the BMW in this regard at all.
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post #16 of 66 Old Jan 3rd, 2019, 8:41 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

OK time for the next update.

I did put a new ring in #2 and shined a bright light. For everyone that watched the Great American Eclipse, I saw "Baily's Beads. It was just too hard to get a photo on the bike so I have included one from an eclipse.

Guess we will just have to see what happens after a few thousand miles. I have a nice bore scope the will show if the new rings scrape off the coating.

The head was ready today at 1 pm. For $260 is got the exhaust valves lightly ground to remove the pitting and they ground the tops of the valve to keep everything in spec with the existing buckets. The head looks really good, just wish I had taken a before shot of the combustion chambers and the back side of the exhaust vales. Loads of carbon from the oil burning.

The pistons are all cleaned up (had tons of carbon), rings installed and new rod bolts. Everything is well oiled and bagged ready for install.


All I can say is this is way easier than a clutch job!
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #17 of 66 Old Jan 3rd, 2019, 9:26 pm
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

Looks good John-You're good for another 14 years or so!

I think I've got the cooling/radiator/hoses all sorted out-can't wait to ride but that's a while yet.

Planning a CC50 as soon as the weather gets warm enough for me to get to San Diego to start.

Dave

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post #18 of 66 Old Jan 3rd, 2019, 10:33 pm
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

Looks great. Very nice work. You can do mine any time you want
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post #19 of 66 Old Jan 4th, 2019, 7:24 am
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
OK time for the next update.

I did put a new ring in #2 and shined a bright light. For everyone that watched the Great American Eclipse, I saw "Baily's Beads. It was just too hard to get a photo on the bike so I have included one from an eclipse.

Guess we will just have to see what happens after a few thousand miles. I have a nice bore scope the will show if the new rings scrape off the coating.

The head was ready today at 1 pm. For $260 is got the exhaust valves lightly ground to remove the pitting and they ground the tops of the valve to keep everything in spec with the existing buckets. The head looks really good, just wish I had taken a before shot of the combustion chambers and the back side of the exhaust vales. Loads of carbon from the oil burning.

The pistons are all cleaned up (had tons of carbon), rings installed and new rod bolts. Everything is well oiled and bagged ready for install.


All I can say is this is way easier than a clutch job!
Should have had them ground down so you could use all of those 2.90 buckets that we all have.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #20 of 66 Old Jan 4th, 2019, 7:25 am
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

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Looks great. Very nice work. You can do mine any time you want
Number 2 in line.

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1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
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post #21 of 66 Old Jan 4th, 2019, 7:58 am Thread Starter
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

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Should have had them ground down so you could use all of those 2.90 buckets that we all have.
Actually most of mine were originally 2.90 with four 2.95 and one 3.00. Now four of the 2.90s are now 2.85 before the valve job.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #22 of 66 Old Jan 4th, 2019, 9:45 am
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

Question....remember I for the most part am from a jap bike background. Most the jap bikes do NOT recommend grinding the valves as they are coated and hardened only on the surface. Are the german valves different? Have to admit to chunking the stock vlaves and replacing with stainless steel valves on a hotrod street bike. Titanium on the more serious stuff but that required a different seat material.

I know its a touring bike, etc. But I would just had to have put that head on a serdi and opened the seats to the max......

Enjoying the thread......thx!!
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post #23 of 66 Old Jan 4th, 2019, 3:54 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

BMW only mentions grinding the valve seats and states to install and grind in a new valve. At $170 a pop I took a chance on a slight grind to remove most of the pitting.

Now for today's update:

Got the valve stem seals installed and the head all back together. Those pesky little keepers are a pain but sticky grease helps a lot. Then I went to the pistons. I had difficulty getting the new oil control ring into the short taper on my ring sleeve. I had tested it on used pistons and rings from a dead engine to make sure it worked. I guess I just needed a a little more patients, I thought I could use my strap type compressor to help get the piston into the ring sleeve. Nope! The ring got caught and I ended up bending it when I tapped the piston into the sleeve. Found a way to get the rest of them into the sleeve and installed with no issues. I have a ring set on order now so for the time being I have a K75LT (actually it should be a K900LT).

Bummer. But now I have time to clean up the rest of the other bits and get them all ready to install when the rings get here.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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Last edited by jzeiler; Jan 8th, 2019 at 11:22 am.
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post #24 of 66 Old Jan 5th, 2019, 9:03 am
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

I hear ya......170 a pop. that's insane.

The reason I asked was I did it once to a jap bike. I bought a low mileage cbx engine. Sit for 20 years but had been cared for. I couldn't stand it. Took it apart. I ground the valves...SLIGHTLY, touched the seats the same with a serdi. We had built a leak down unit to check heads before they were installed on the engine. It was fantastic. Within 2-3K miles I noticed I was losing valve clearance when I checked them. Yeap....it was the valves.
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post #25 of 66 Old Jan 5th, 2019, 9:31 am
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

The valve spring compressor looks great.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #26 of 66 Old Jan 5th, 2019, 5:38 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

I have since found out the valves are SS so no problem grinding except they are very small so there is not much "meat" left after the grind if you go too far.

I took a break today and loaded the family into the Pacifica and headed towards Nashville on back roads. Had a great lunch just south of Franklin and then on the the Farmers Market and the Gardens of Babylon. Finished there and took Jake to see the Parthenon and realized we were only 10 minutes from Bloodworth BMW. They had a 2019 Grand America in Imperial Blue, wow it matches the color of the Pacifica. Wife says her backside "fits" just fine on a GA, hmmm... I better hury up and get the LT going again or else!
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #27 of 66 Old Jan 6th, 2019, 10:10 am
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

That is great news to know they are stainless. We did the sane recently....looked at the 1600. But my wife knows I am far to tight to spring for it. I find a good used one in a couple years at half price. I decided to wait for one with reverse which means the earlier models were out.
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post #28 of 66 Old Jan 6th, 2019, 10:14 am Thread Starter
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

Yeah but there nothing like NEW, I bought the 05 on 6/5/2004 and 20 K was a lot back then. All my original fasteners are installed just like they were from the factory. Hard to say that for a used bike and I have taken many of them apart.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #29 of 66 Old Jan 6th, 2019, 5:36 pm
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

Think my 01 was around 20K new but I am not nearly as serious about motorcycling now as I was then...
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post #30 of 66 Old Jan 6th, 2019, 6:34 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

Here are a few more tid bits. The puck that the timing chain tensioner rests on is shown with a beveled wear area, the replacement is flat. In 2005 along with the larger throttle bodies they added the RS high compression pistons. Here is what the difference is, no dish in the middle.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #31 of 66 Old Jan 8th, 2019, 11:20 am Thread Starter
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

It is always tough sitting around waiting for parts to get here and its even worse when you are the cause of the part that got screwed up. Cleaned up the TB and leak checked my breather tubing. Still leak free.

Then I cleaned up the air box and for the first time in 14 years I had this in the intake area. I installed some hardware cloth in the snorkel to prevent a re-occurrence. I melted the ends into the plastic to hold it in place, they won't get in there again!
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #32 of 66 Old Jan 21st, 2019, 12:05 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

Good Grief it is taking forever for the Fatherland to ship my ring set (ordered Jan 4th). I really hate having the old girl all opened up for so long. Maybe this week they will come.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #33 of 66 Old Jan 21st, 2019, 10:17 pm
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

Lots of hard work, great post.

05 BMW K1200LT
13 Kawasaki Concours 1400
14 Kawasaki Teryx 4x4

Gone, but never forgotten:-
08 09 Conny 14
03 Honda Blackbird.
85 Suzuki GS1000
79 Yamaha RD50M (EDB 138T)
and countless others,

All engines built at Norfolk and Chance motors....
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post #34 of 66 Old Jan 23rd, 2019, 6:33 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

Hooray! The parts made it to Max BMW and were shipped to me today. Looks like the old girl will go back together this weekend.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #35 of 66 Old Jan 25th, 2019, 7:17 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

OK USPS did me a solid, got a three day priority parcel in two days!!!

Got the new oil ring installed and #4 piston installed. Torqued the rod bolts 30 Nm initial then 80 degrees. I could feel the bolts stretching!

Next installed the cylinder head with the sensor, and water elbow already installed. Had my son route the sensor wire behind the spark box as I man handled the head into place. Got it torqued down, initial was 20 Nm followed by 90 degrees. Then installed the cams and my cam holding fixtures.

Then put the new rotor flange on ( the seal had worn a slight groove in the old one ). Routed the chain through the new rail guides and installed the cam gears. All went pretty easy.

Tomorrow I will close up the timing cover. It has to be coated with sealant and then wires must be passed through a hole (external to the oil bath) and the cover must be placed very carefully so as to not screw up the flange seal. I discovered that the cylinder head gets its oil flow from the block via ports and passages in the timing cover.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #36 of 66 Old Jan 25th, 2019, 8:40 pm
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

I like the "high tech" special tools you have.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #37 of 66 Old Jan 27th, 2019, 5:00 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

On the verge of starting her up. I want to go get fresh coolant tomorrow. She is starting to look normal again.

Now the last couple of pictures show a very serious mistake I made and I'll buy a drink for the first person to catch it. Luckily it was easy to fix but I really felt dumb doing it.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #38 of 66 Old Jan 27th, 2019, 5:24 pm
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
On the verge of starting her up. I want to go get fresh coolant tomorrow. She is starting to look normal again.

Now the last couple of pictures show a very serious mistake I made and I'll buy a drink for the first person to catch it. Luckily it was easy to fix but I really felt dumb doing it.
Swapped the intake and exhaust cams?

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #39 of 66 Old Jan 27th, 2019, 6:02 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

You are in the ball park.

I actually thought I had done that several years ago since the manual description is hard to match up to what you are looking at. It states: " Intake - 2 Grooves after thrust bearing; Exhaust - 1 Groove after thrust bearing". Here you see what they really look like. The intake has 3 grooves but 2 "Not Grooves". The exhaust has 2 grooves but 1 "Not Groove". Maybe they didn't have an English translation for "Not Groove".
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #40 of 66 Old Jan 27th, 2019, 6:45 pm
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
You are in the ball park.

I actually thought I had done that several years ago since the manual description is hard to match up to what you are looking at. It states: " Intake - 2 Grooves after thrust bearing; Exhaust - 1 Groove after thrust bearing". Here you see what they really look like. The intake has 3 grooves but 2 "Not Grooves". The exhaust has 2 grooves but 1 "Not Groove". Maybe they didn't have an English translation for "Not Groove".
My second guess was getting the intake and exhaust bearing caps in reverse order

My third guess was swapping the caps intake for exhaust.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #41 of 66 Old Jan 27th, 2019, 8:13 pm
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

The only things I see are the top left engine mount bolt is not in place and one of the vacuum hoses is not connected but you had not finished assembling yet so no telling if those were connected later on. I give up if it isn't one of those. You said the last couple pictures and I can't see the engine mount in the last picture so I don't know.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #42 of 66 Old Jan 27th, 2019, 9:13 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

Quote:
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My second guess was getting the intake and exhaust bearing caps in reverse order

My third guess was swapping the caps intake for exhaust.
The caps were in all the right places but they were not correct...

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #43 of 66 Old Jan 27th, 2019, 10:16 pm
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

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The caps were in all the right places but they were not correct...
I have not had to take the cams out to adjust buckets yet so I think I was at a disadvantage in knowing what I am looking at. I had to go to the k1200 PDF to find a picture and then it was pretty obvious. The bearing caps look to be on upside down. The cover supports are offset. Yours are offset away from the center and the ones in the PDF picture are offset towards the center. I bet you got all the way to putting on the valve cover and found the holes didn't line up. I would not have seen that if you didn't give all the hints.

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Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #44 of 66 Old Jan 28th, 2019, 11:25 am
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

I thought you should have used a Sharpie to write "John was here" on top of one of the pistons.

Brian
CCR: 2008, Midway; 2011, Boise; 2012, Duluth; 2014, Chattanooga. MOA: Billings, 2015; SLC, 2017
CCR-R: 2018, Russellville
'13 K1600 GTL-P - "Eva"
Sold but "beloved" ride: K12 LT - "Pepe"
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post #45 of 66 Old Jan 28th, 2019, 11:27 am
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
The caps were in all the right places but they were not correct...
I hope you found the problem before you torqued the cap bolts.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #46 of 66 Old Jan 28th, 2019, 12:43 pm
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

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I hope you found the problem before you torqued the cap bolts.
I would bet not. The valve cover test would reveal the error if his trained eye did not recognize it before that. You can believe me when I say, I will somehow mark those bad boys when I go in to do buckets for the first time.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #47 of 66 Old Jan 28th, 2019, 2:28 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

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I hope you found the problem before you torqued the cap bolts.
I wondered about that as well but it appears to be no issue as the cams had been installed several times, once at the valve shop where he set the clearances. Then I checked again after I got installed the valve seals and springs. I found it as I was getting ready to put the cover on and oops...

Looks like Gordon wins the prize. I have a bottle of Malbec with your name on at for Ironhorse.

I undid one at a time and torqued it then moved to the next one. They are only 9 Nm which means bottomed and then some. Cams always moved freely. Anyway went to the local BMW car dealer so early this morning they gave me a gallon of the blue anti freeze since the cashier wasn't due in for 45 minutes. Had a good time chatting with them. Finished up the girl to the point the tank was on and had to start it up. Fired right up and was slightly rough for a few seconds then it smoothed out. Took it up to the point where I confirmed the temp gauge was working and shut her down. She is all buttoned up for a quick breaking ride before the snow comes tomorrow morning.

No leaks no drips and most importantly no extra parts!

OK the shakedown run was not what I wanted. The idle was good but of idle to 3,000 it felt like it was only firing on three cylinders. Occasionally the fourth would kick in but idle was always smooth so I suspect I did not get one of the injector connectors locked in (I have had this before but it was fine below 3,000 RPM on that one). I have a snow day tomorrow to go back in and do the tug test. It may just be one cylinder not developing enough compression as the rings wear in but my money is on the injector connector. Did get it up to temp for a while and back in with no leaks and the exhaust smells better.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #48 of 66 Old Jan 28th, 2019, 6:33 pm
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

I use old plastic QD's that I have replaced on long enough fuel lines that I run the bikes I work on before I put anything back together. I set the fuel tank on a sawhorse behind the bike. I use a infrared temp gauge to check exhaust temps.
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2004 Black LT
2000 Canon Red LT



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post #49 of 66 Old Jan 28th, 2019, 7:36 pm
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

Dave, a quick question if I may.
Understand why you use the infrared temp gauge prior to full assembly but is that just for an over-check
of injectors and ignition/firing function or is it sensitive enough for mixture too. ( albeit at idle)
Years ago I used a colour tune plug. So simple. Thanks.

John enjoying the post. Learning so much. Thanks

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post #50 of 66 Old Jan 28th, 2019, 8:43 pm
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Re: I decided to ring in the new year with new rings

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
I wondered about that as well but it appears to be no issue as the cams had been installed several times, once at the valve shop where he set the clearances. Then I checked again after I got installed the valve seals and springs. I found it as I was getting ready to put the cover on and oops...

Looks like Gordon wins the prize. I have a bottle of Malbec with your name on at for Ironhorse.

I undid one at a time and torqued it then moved to the next one. They are only 9 Nm which means bottomed and then some. Cams always moved freely. Anyway went to the local BMW car dealer so early this morning they gave me a gallon of the blue anti freeze since the cashier wasn't due in for 45 minutes. Had a good time chatting with them. Finished up the girl to the point the tank was on and had to start it up. Fired right up and was slightly rough for a few seconds then it smoothed out. Took it up to the point where I confirmed the temp gauge was working and shut her down. She is all buttoned up for a quick breaking ride before the snow comes tomorrow morning.

No leaks no drips and most importantly no extra parts!

OK the shakedown run was not what I wanted. The idle was good but of idle to 3,000 it felt like it was only firing on three cylinders. Occasionally the fourth would kick in but idle was always smooth so I suspect I did not get one of the injector connectors locked in (I have had this before but it was fine below 3,000 RPM on that one). I have a snow day tomorrow to go back in and do the tug test. It may just be one cylinder not developing enough compression as the rings wear in but my money is on the injector connector. Did get it up to temp for a while and back in with no leaks and the exhaust smells better.
Must be the bore is pretty well centered then between the bolts. My fear would be that if the bore is a little off to one side, rotating the caps could really put some pressure on things if tightened down.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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