Clutch or drive shaft? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 15 Old Dec 22nd, 2018, 7:30 pm Thread Starter
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Clutch or drive shaft?

So my 2002 has had a rear main seal leak of a year or more with no clutch slippages noticed. Drilled the weep hole at the bottom of the bell housing and just keep the oil level full. Today I was going on a ride and had a failure. While passing a vehicle the roll on had normal power and acceleration, about the time I passed the vehicle the rpms went to rev limiter like it had been knocked out of gear. I shifted gear and the same result. Pulled to the side and cycled from first to 4th and only a slight amount of forward power.
First thought was contaminated clutch but once I started thinking about it Iím wondering if my drive shaft could have failed. What would be the best way to check the shaft to verify itís condition?
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post #2 of 15 Old Dec 22nd, 2018, 7:38 pm
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Re: Clutch or drive shaft?

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Originally Posted by St0rm1 View Post
So my 2002 has had a rear main seal leak of a year or more with no clutch slippages noticed. Drilled the weep hole at the bottom of the bell housing and just keep the oil level full. Today I was going on a ride and had a failure. While passing a vehicle the roll on had normal power and acceleration, about the time I passed the vehicle the rpms went to rev limiter like it had been knocked out of gear. I shifted gear and the same result. Pulled to the side and cycled from first to 4th and only a slight amount of forward power.
First thought was contaminated clutch but once I started thinking about it Iím wondering if my drive shaft could have failed. What would be the best way to check the shaft to verify itís condition?
That sure sounds like the drive shaft. The clutch disk could have disintegrated or you could have stripped out the splines on the clutch disk but that would likely have no drive forward at all and probably would have made some noise along the way.
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2001 K1200LTI Ė Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
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post #3 of 15 Old Dec 22nd, 2018, 7:42 pm
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Re: Clutch or drive shaft?

The best way is to look at it. Remove the rear drive and you will know. Alternate is to put it in gear, cold and see if you can spin the rear wheel. The drive shafts tend to slip really bad when they go and are hot but the rubber cushion will re-fuse when it cools down. This will be a weak bond. Visual is still the best way. First one is bad.
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post #4 of 15 Old Dec 22nd, 2018, 8:19 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Clutch or drive shaft?

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Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
That sure sounds like the drive shaft. The clutch disk could have disintegrated or you could have stripped out the splines on the clutch disk but that would likely have no drive forward at all and probably would have made some noise along the way.
I thought there would be noise as well and would hear something if I stripped the splines. This makes no noise so now Iím leaning towards the shaft failure. Better prospect than a clutch job.
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post #5 of 15 Old Dec 22nd, 2018, 8:20 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Clutch or drive shaft?

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Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
The best way is to look at it. Remove the rear drive and you will know. Alternate is to put it in gear, cold and see if you can spin the rear wheel. The drive shafts tend to slip really bad when they go and are hot but the rubber cushion will re-fuse when it cools down. This will be a weak bond. Visual is still the best way. First one is bad.
Thanks for the pictures. Iíll be putting it on the lift and starting the inspection of the shaft.
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post #6 of 15 Old Jan 19th, 2019, 7:04 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Clutch or drive shaft?

Well it was the driveshaft, no doubt about it. Once I moved the boot and shined a light in there I could smel it and see the rubber. Here is what it looked like when I pulled it out. I found a used one Iíll install once I finish drilling the weep hole and replacing the slave cylinder seals. I appreciate the direction.
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post #7 of 15 Old Jan 19th, 2019, 7:23 pm
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Re: Clutch or drive shaft?

Quote:
Originally Posted by St0rm1 View Post
Well it was the driveshaft, no doubt about it. Once I moved the boot and shined a light in there I could smel it and see the rubber. Here is what it looked like when I pulled it out. I found a used one Iíll install once I finish drilling the weep hole and replacing the slave cylinder seals. I appreciate the direction.
Yep, you smoked it good!
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post #8 of 15 Old Jan 19th, 2019, 8:04 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Clutch or drive shaft?

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Yep, you smoked it good!
Yep, had a fair amound slung around inside to clean out. Since Iím here Iím going to drill the slave cylinder weep hole and replace the seal. Looks like it may have been leaking for a long time based on the amount of gunk in there. I think the PO letting it sit may have saved it by allowing the fluid to gel and get tacky. Unless I can find how to rebuild the slave cylinder it looks like Iíll be replacing it as well.
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post #9 of 15 Old Jan 19th, 2019, 8:56 pm
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Re: Clutch or drive shaft?

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Originally Posted by St0rm1 View Post
Yep, had a fair amound slung around inside to clean out. Since Iím here Iím going to drill the slave cylinder weep hole and replace the seal. Looks like it may have been leaking for a long time based on the amount of gunk in there. I think the PO letting it sit may have saved it by allowing the fluid to gel and get tacky. Unless I can find how to rebuild the slave cylinder it looks like Iíll be replacing it as well.
Have not seen a replacement rubber cup or slug with a bearing in it yet so replacing is the only way. I think BBY still sells one for less than the dealer if they are in stock.

Gordon
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2001 K1200LTI Ė Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Ė Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #10 of 15 Old Jan 19th, 2019, 9:31 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Clutch or drive shaft?

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Have not seen a replacement rubber cup or slug with a bearing in it yet so replacing is the only way. I think BBY still sells one for less than the dealer if they are in stock.
I kind of figured that would be the case. It looks like BBY still has some in stock so Iíll just replace. One less thing to worry about later I guess.
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post #11 of 15 Old Jan 19th, 2019, 10:55 pm
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Re: Clutch or drive shaft?

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I kind of figured that would be the case. It looks like BBY still has some in stock so Iíll just replace. One less thing to worry about later I guess.
Baring a defective one, you can't go wrong with that decision.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Ė Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Ė Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #12 of 15 Old Jan 19th, 2019, 11:47 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Clutch or drive shaft?

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Baring a defective one, you can't go wrong with that decision.
Iím wondering if the orangeish material I found in there was a packing or assembly lube not the fluid I thought. I wouldnít think the fluid would look like that but itís hard to say. Iíll probably end up changing it anyway, since Iím there already.
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post #13 of 15 Old Jan 20th, 2019, 12:29 am Thread Starter
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Re: Clutch or drive shaft?

The correct seal size is 25x40x7, correct?
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post #14 of 15 Old Jan 20th, 2019, 1:09 am
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Re: Clutch or drive shaft?

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The correct seal size is 25x40x7, correct?
The 25X40X6 OEM size seal is for the output shaft where the drive shaft connects. If you are careful, you can use the 25x40x7 as there is enough room for it BUT, this seal, either size causes many people significant heart ache because there is an oil hole on the shaft and a very small distance too deep and it will leak like a sieve. You can see in the pic how close the lip rides to the hole. No room for a mistake. The only way I know of fixing that without buying a new seal is to split the trans and drive it out form the inside. Anything else will damage it for removal. Take a look at the photos and decide if you want to take a chance on creating a leak where it was not. You can see one that is too deep and leaking and one that is installed correctly.

If you are looking for the seal inside the hole the slave cylinder goes in, it is 17x28x7 and the dealer seal has been upgraded to Viton ( orange) and I recommend you use that seal as it will hold up better to heat and to break fluid if ever exposed. There are pitfalls with that seal as there is an opening on the side of the housing again that will leak if installed too deep. SOMETIMES DIFFICULT TO REMOVE WITHOUT DAMAGING THE CASE as can be seen by one poor souls experience in the attached pic.
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Gordon
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2001 K1200LTI Ė Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Ė Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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Last edited by jzeiler; Jan 20th, 2019 at 2:16 pm.
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post #15 of 15 Old Jan 20th, 2019, 8:54 am Thread Starter
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Re: Clutch or drive shaft?

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Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
The 25X40X6 OEM size seal is for the output shaft where the drive shaft connects. If you are careful, you can use the 20x40x7 as there is enough room for it BUT, this seal, either size causes many people significant heart ache because there is an oil hole on the shaft and a very small distance too deep and it will leak like a sieve. You can see in the pic how close the lip rides to the hole. No room for a mistake. The only way I know of fixing that without buying a new seal is to split the trans and drive it out form the inside. Anything else will damage it for removal. Take a look at the photos and decide if you want to take a chance on creating a leak where it was not. You can see one that is too deep and leaking and one that is installed correctly.

If you are looking for the seal inside the hole the slave cylinder goes in, it is 17x28x7 and the dealer seal has been upgraded to Viton ( orange) and I recommend you use that seal as it will hold up better to heat and to break fluid if ever exposed. There are pitfalls with that seal as there is an opening on the side of the housing again that will leak if installed too deep. SOMETIMES DIFFICULT TO REMOVE WITHOUT DAMAGING THE CASE as can be seen by one poor souls experience in the attached pic.
Thank you for the clarification, I thought I had the seals confused but it was late so I figured I better ask. Iíll get the seal and felt ring and cylinder on the way so I can wrap things up. Thanks again.
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