Clutch or drive problem 2009 K1200LT - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 17 Old Oct 14th, 2018, 12:49 pm Thread Starter
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Clutch or drive problem 2009 K1200LT

Riding home from work the other day, highway speeds, (50-70....) shifting up and down from 4 to 5 as needed to get through traffic, RPMs 3,500-5,500, the connection from the engine to the drive just broke. no power from the engine to the drive, no unusual noise or vibration that I remember. I coasted to the shoulder to check it out. The transmission seams to shift up and down OK. When I rotate the back wheel, in gear, engine off, there is some friction and an unusual noise and feel coming from the drive shaft or transmission area as the wheel is rotated, but no connection to the engine. The engine starts and runs normal.
I trailed the bike home. Now looking into possible cause and repair.
Is it possible that the clutch just broke? Clutch and shifting worked very well up to this point.
Or is it a drive issue.
Thoughts

T Klarer
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post #2 of 17 Old Oct 14th, 2018, 3:15 pm
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Re: Clutch or drive problem 2009 K1200LT

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Originally Posted by T Klarer View Post
Riding home from work the other day, highway speeds, (50-70....) shifting up and down from 4 to 5 as needed to get through traffic, RPMs 3,500-5,500, the connection from the engine to the drive just broke. no power from the engine to the drive, no unusual noise or vibration that I remember. I coasted to the shoulder to check it out. The transmission seams to shift up and down OK. When I rotate the back wheel, in gear, engine off, there is some friction and an unusual noise and feel coming from the drive shaft or transmission area as the wheel is rotated, but no connection to the engine. The engine starts and runs normal.
I trailed the bike home. Now looking into possible cause and repair.
Is it possible that the clutch just broke? Clutch and shifting worked very well up to this point.
Or is it a drive issue.
Thoughts

T Klarer
Welcome to the forum T Klarer. The most likely thing based on your description is the drive shaft has spun inside the rubber bushing that holds the two pieces together. If you pull off the final drive, you can see the end of the shaft to inspect it. If it has a lot of nasty stuff around the rubber, then it likely has spun and is no good. Put the bike in gear and grab the end of the shaft with a pair of pliers and see if it is lose and spins inside the housing. It should NOT spin and should not have a bunch of gunk around the metal to rubber interface. My computer crashed and I have not recovered all my pictures yet or I would post some of good and bad looking shafts. John Zieler will probably post some pics once he is home today.
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Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #3 of 17 Old Oct 14th, 2018, 3:57 pm
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Re: Clutch or drive problem 2009 K1200LT

Remove the rear drive and look at the drive shaft. Here are a few shots of a bad and good one. They get hot when they slip and then sort of "fuse" back together again but will break free under load.
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John
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post #4 of 17 Old Oct 14th, 2018, 7:21 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Clutch or drive problem 2009 K1200LT

Thank you, this looks a bit more manageable than the clutch repair, I will dig in to it and see what I find.

Thanks
T Klarer
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post #5 of 17 Old Oct 15th, 2018, 10:05 am
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Re: Clutch or drive problem 2009 K1200LT

FYI , on E-bay today. starting bid @27.99 sells in 10 hours from now ..
05-BMW-K1200-LT-K1200LT-Rear-Final-Drive-Shaft
https://www.ebay.com/itm/05-BMW-K120...53.m1438.l2649
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2010 R1200GSA ...1987 Helix...
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post #6 of 17 Old Oct 15th, 2018, 11:06 am
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Re: Clutch or drive problem 2009 K1200LT

You can look at the "Sticky" post above for drilling the weep hole - part A will get you through the rear drive removal and part C is the install.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #7 of 17 Old Apr 17th, 2019, 8:35 pm Thread Starter
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Ok I pulled the drive shaft and it was fine. I ended up at the clutch and found the spline in the clutch plate had striped out. I'm not the most experienced rider but I don't think I was that tough on it. Where are you guys buying parts?
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post #8 of 17 Old Apr 17th, 2019, 10:36 pm
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Re: Clutch or drive problem 2009 K1200LT

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Originally Posted by T Klarer View Post
Ok I pulled the drive shaft and it was fine. I ended up at the clutch and found the spline in the clutch plate had striped out. I'm not the most experienced rider but I don't think I was that tough on it. Where are you guys buying parts?
Beamer boneyard has a basic plus that is better than stock but out of stock at the moment. Call them and see when they will have it again. $104.95 plus tax and shipping. They are often out of stock but probably only buy a few at a time and they sell fast and are replenished quickly usually.

https://www.beemerboneyard.com/2123455bp.html

2nd option from BBY is the oil proof. Also temp out of stock and more expensive. $259.95 +T&S

https://www.beemerboneyard.com/2122455or.html

Be wary of some clutch disks from Ebay as some are too thick and will not work in the LT. Being too thick, it pulles the leaf springs down too far and the push rod does not stick out enough for the slave to disengage it. Other than measuring the thickness, I don't know how to tell you what to avoid. I will find the measurement. I think it is around 6 mm. I have a siebenrock oil proof that is measuring 6.1mm. I think the bad ones are around 1.5mm thicker and the clutch will not disengage.

Then there is the dealer. Max BMW or your local shop for OEM.

MAX BMW
21 21 7 670 455 CLUTCH PLATE - D=180MM 0.68 1 $254.29

Making an assumption that your plates are salvageable and not excessively dished.

If you send me a PM with your address, I will send out a 19x4 Viton O-ring for the clutch housing shaft seal free of charge. You will need a new nut as it is stretched and a one time use but seeing you are in that far, replacing a few seals along the way can prevent the repeated disassembly from a leak and potential contamination of your new clutch. That is not without its own set of pitfalls though. Some seal placement is pretty critical. Or you can buy the lesser O-ring from the dealer but it should be replaced while you are there. You only have 3 posts and need 15 to be able to send private messages. Rack some up.
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Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #9 of 17 Old Apr 18th, 2019, 7:25 am
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Re: Clutch or drive problem 2009 K1200LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by T Klarer View Post
Ok I pulled the drive shaft and it was fine. I ended up at the clutch and found the spline in the clutch plate had striped out. I'm not the most experienced rider but I don't think I was that tough on it. Where are you guys buying parts?
This is the first time I have heard of this happening. How many miles are on the bike? Are the splines dry and rusty?

It sounds like you may have simply got a defective disk that wasn’t properly heat treated at the factory. I rebuilt my clutch disk at 54,000 miles and the splines looked almost new at that mileage which is why I decided to rebuild the disk rather than buy a new one. In retrospect, I would buy a new one.

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2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #10 of 17 Old Apr 18th, 2019, 3:52 pm
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Re: Clutch or drive problem 2009 K1200LT

Yes I agree stripped splines on an LT is unheard of until now. Must have been a defect in the disc. How are the spines on the transmission?

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #11 of 17 Old Apr 18th, 2019, 4:25 pm
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Re: Clutch or drive problem 2009 K1200LT

I remember reading about some type of alignment issue on some BMW models but not the LT as stated by John. This would cause this type of failure. Here is an article discussing it. I would look for signs of this on the clutch disk and the input shaft. Would love to see some pics of what you have.

BMW clutch splines

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #12 of 17 Old Apr 18th, 2019, 6:34 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Clutch or drive problem 2009 K1200LT

Pressure plate and cover plate look relatively ok but I most likely will replace them. No oil or clutch fluid in the housing. I'm inclined to leave the seals alone. I also am inclined to leave the clutch housing alone, as long as it doesn't create a balancing issue with the new parts. I did drill the slave cylinder.
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post #13 of 17 Old Apr 18th, 2019, 6:40 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Clutch or drive problem 2009 K1200LT

40,000. miles
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post #14 of 17 Old Apr 18th, 2019, 6:44 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Clutch or drive problem 2009 K1200LT

What about the Sachs parts from Wunderlich America??
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post #15 of 17 Old Apr 18th, 2019, 7:39 pm
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Re: Clutch or drive problem 2009 K1200LT

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Originally Posted by T Klarer View Post
Pressure plate and cover plate look relatively ok but I most likely will replace them. No oil or clutch fluid in the housing. I'm inclined to leave the seals alone. I also am inclined to leave the clutch housing alone, as long as it doesn't create a balancing issue with the new parts. I did drill the slave cylinder.
What is the thickness of your clutch disk? Might be worth measuring it in say three equally spaced locations. Had you cleaned the disk before taking these pictures? If so, it sure looks like the splines had no grease on them.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #16 of 17 Old Apr 18th, 2019, 8:18 pm
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Re: Clutch or drive problem 2009 K1200LT

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Originally Posted by T Klarer View Post
Pressure plate and cover plate look relatively ok but I most likely will replace them. No oil or clutch fluid in the housing. I'm inclined to leave the seals alone. I also am inclined to leave the clutch housing alone, as long as it doesn't create a balancing issue with the new parts. I did drill the slave cylinder.
Is that a BMW part? you showed us the side with no marking on it. Things change over time in manufacturing as mine is an 01 but the center looks slightly different than the one I removed when I did my clutch. Just checking.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #17 of 17 Old Apr 19th, 2019, 9:38 am
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Re: Clutch or drive problem 2009 K1200LT

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What about the Sachs parts from Wunderlich America??
I have used a couple of the BeemerBoneYard "better than stock" discs including one in my bike now. They are cheaper than the BMW unit and are made by Siebenrock.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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