Old LT or new Wing? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 16 Old May 24th, 2018, 5:37 pm Thread Starter
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Old LT or new Wing?

As many at CCR know, I picked up a large screw in my rear tire on the way in to Russellville. I plugged it and we rode Wednesday, but the tire lost 5 psi that day and my wife Linda wasn't comfortable riding on it so I decided today to seek out a new tire. Since the nearest BMW dealer appears to be in Little Rock, I decided to start with Honda of Russellville since they are literally next to the hotel.

Honda of Russellville was very accommodating in regard to our tire situation. They believe they can have one in tomorrow around 10:00 and will mount it if I remove the wheel from the bike, which is easy with the LT rear wheel. So, hopefully, we are back on the road by noon tomorrow with a new tire.

My opinion of the BMWMOA Platinum road service plan (administered by Nation Safe Drivers) is not nearly so positive. What a run around they gave me and the dealer to get authorization to replace the tire under my coverage plan. We spent over an hour on the phone in a total of three phone calls to get replacement authorization to get my $250 coverage. The phone reps did all they could to find a way to deny my claim and really inconvenienced the Honda parts man who was really trying to help get me back on the road. What a complete lack of customer care and service.

Since we were stuck at the hotel, I asked about a Wing test ride since they have about 20 Wings in stock. They said sure so we rode a Red DCT Tour 64 miles up route 7 to Jasper for lunch. The DCT isn't bad, but takes some getting used to. Not sure if I would want one. The Wing has good power, much better down low than my LT, but nothing like the mighty K1600 BMW.

The bike feels much smaller than my LT and handles similarly. Responsive, but not really nimble like the K1600. The suspension is soft and underdamped. So, the ride is cushy, but not as controlled as my LT and not nearly as good as the K1600's ESA. The brakes work very well, nearly equal to my LT. The wind protection was as good as my LT and better for Linda than the LT as she sits lower. And much better for her than the K1600.

The seat was firm for me, but Linda said hers was like a concrete bench. And she felt more out in the open as the backrest is much smaller than our LT and the passenger grab handles are nearly under the seat and hard to reach. The storage is really poor. A full face helmet will not fit in the side cases and only one will fit in the trunk. Fuel mileage seems poor as I used more than half a tank in 128 miles. We left with 3/4 tank and were on the last bar when we returned. Although, I decided to fill the bike since we took it so far, and the pump kicked off at only 3.92 gallons in a supposedly 5.5 gallon tank. The filler neck is quite odd and let's the nozzle go deep into the tank so maybe it wasn't really full.

The dash is nice, but our high-viz yellow jackets glared badly on the flat plastic dash cover and Honda still has way too many small buttons that are hard to use with gloves on. BMW's controls are much easier to use and the K1600 "whiz wheel" works all the time where Honda's joystick wheel only works when stopped. All-in-all, a nice machine for a solo rider or maybe weekend trips, but for a couple that really wants to travel, you would have to tow a trailer. Not a bike we will likely buy anytime soon. Need to try the K1600 Grand America, but probably will stick with the LT a few more years. After all, it is the Ultimate Luxury Touring Machine.

I will say that Honda of Russellville has great prices. They are the #1 Wing dealer in the US selling 2-300 a year. They are a volume dealer with volume pricing, but even at $25K, the Wing just isn't the bike for us. It is selling well initially for HoR and the salesman told me that 95% of their sales are DCT models. He expects Honda will drop the manual transmission in a few years if this sales ratio holds.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #2 of 16 Old May 25th, 2018, 12:09 am
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Cool Re: Old LT or new Wing?

Voyager, thanks for a nice write-up. That stinks that your road service plan was so difficult trying to get help to replace a tire. I like your comparisons --- 12 year old LT beats out a new 'Wing hands down !! Although I have ridden/owned an older wing and valkyrie, neither one had the 1800 motor. I think to look at any new two-up bike, first of all, you have to decide to spend big money. Here are the only 2018 model bikes that make my cut :

1. BMW K1600 Grand America -- selling at my local dealer for $26k
2. Gold Wings -- depending on model - $26 - 32k
3. Harley Ultra Classic or Road Glide - $25 - 40k
4. Indian Roadmaster - $30 - 38k

All these come with factory trunk, cruise, heated everything, and electric shield, except the HD. I have only ridden an Indian at a demo days, and rented a '17 Road Glide Ultra to ride the Blue Ridge Parkway (no, I would not buy either one). Both had good power, comfy seats, nice navigation & stereo, but that's about it. Without riding any of these others, I would think the BMW is best bang for the buck. I think the dealer support system and location is important too. I'll rank Harley first, Honda 2nd, and a tie for BMW & Indian.

I do ride solo now -- so a '15 F6B, which I have ridden, or a good deal on a 1600 is on my list. Until then, my '99 just won't quit. Although I removed the trunk,it has everything those 30k bikes have, and she's paid for! Just my .02 "watch the idiots"
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post #3 of 16 Old May 25th, 2018, 12:50 am
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Re: Old LT or new Wing?

Go buy yourself and the wife a nice K1600. If used, stay away from the first couple of years. Sorry for your bad experience with your tire. Here is a superior kit:
https://bestrestproducts.com/shop/cy...-kit-tubeless/
This stuff actually vulcanizes (via solvent becomes one with the tire rubber) the plug rope to the tire not glue it with rubber cement like most. Used in truck tire repairs.
I know LT owners love their bikes, but they are getting a bit long in tooth. many advantages in the newer bikes.

Beech
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I change your tires $50, you buy them on the web.
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post #4 of 16 Old May 25th, 2018, 8:15 am Thread Starter
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Re: Old LT or new Wing?

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Originally Posted by beech View Post
Go buy yourself and the wife a nice K1600. If used, stay away from the first couple of years. Sorry for your bad experience with your tire. Here is a superior kit:
https://bestrestproducts.com/shop/cy...-kit-tubeless/
This stuff actually vulcanizes (via solvent becomes one with the tire rubber) the plug rope to the tire not glue it with rubber cement like most. Used in truck tire repairs.
I know LT owners love their bikes, but they are getting a bit long in tooth. many advantages in the newer bikes.
I will take a look at that. I think the issue is that the screw was large (1/4" I think) and went into the tire near the sidewall and almost parallel to the sidewall making a long hole oblique to the tread. Had it been in the crown of the tire, I think it would have plugged well. It is in the area near the sidewall where most tire makers don't approve even an internal repair, at least from what I've read.

Yes, my LT is getting long in the tooth and replacement is more and more on my mind. I need to test ride the GA now. It may hit the sweet spot that the GTL doesn't. And a test ride isn't a bad way to spend a little time.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #5 of 16 Old May 25th, 2018, 10:31 am
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Re: Old LT or new Wing?

Sorry to hear about the rear tire. Apparently it couldn't be patched. And if i was thinking of joining BMWMOA. I'm not now. That's ridiculous,The last thing you need touring on a bike while broken down is stress and bad service. Especially since your paying for a plan not to be stressed. As far as the new Wing goes. I Was disappointed I went and looked at it. Haven't rode one. Wasn't impressed with lack of storage. Tiny trunk and yes those stupid grab handles. Overall not impressed. Now on the other hand. The New Venture i really like ergonomically speaking. They did a nice job. Too bad it's a twin.

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post #6 of 16 Old May 25th, 2018, 10:59 am Thread Starter
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Re: Old LT or new Wing?

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Sorry to hear about the rear tire. Apparently it couldn't be patched. And if i was thinking of joining BMWMOA. I'm not now. That's ridiculous,The last thing you need touring on a bike while broken down is stress and bad service. Especially since your paying for a plan not to be stressed. As far as the new Wing goes. I Was disappointed I went and looked at it. Haven't rode one. Wasn't impressed with lack of storage. Tiny trunk and yes those stupid grab handles. Overall not impressed. Now on the other hand. The New Venture i really like ergonomically speaking. They did a nice job. Too bad it's a twin.
I agree. Of all the bikes we sat in at IMS Cleveland, the new Venture was the most comfortable and has massive storage. If it had the V-4 engine, I would probably buy it. No way I'm riding an air cooled (cooked?) V-twin in temps above 80.

The Wing is a great basic platform. If Honda decides to offer a 7 gallon fuel tank, bags that will hold an XL FF helmet and a decent passenger seat, I might buy one. The chances of this are about the same as Yamaha re-engining the Venture.

The LT is still getting the job done and until I ride a GA, the GTL is the leading candidate as successor.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
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1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #7 of 16 Old May 25th, 2018, 11:16 am Thread Starter
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Re: Old LT or new Wing?

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Originally Posted by james216 View Post
Sorry to hear about the rear tire. Apparently it couldn't be patched. And if i was thinking of joining BMWMOA. I'm not now. That's ridiculous,The last thing you need touring on a bike while broken down is stress and bad service. Especially since your paying for a plan not to be stressed. As far as the new Wing goes. I Was disappointed I went and looked at it. Haven't rode one. Wasn't impressed with lack of storage. Tiny trunk and yes those stupid grab handles. Overall not impressed. Now on the other hand. The New Venture i really like ergonomically speaking. They did a nice job. Too bad it's a twin.
I plugged it. It holds air sitting in the parking lot, but lost 5 psi the one day we rode on it. Can't trust it to make the 1300 miles home and it is down to 5/32" tread anyway.
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2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #8 of 16 Old May 25th, 2018, 1:21 pm
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Re: Old LT or new Wing?

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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
I plugged it. It holds air sitting in the parking lot, but lost 5 psi the one day we rode on it. Can't trust it to make the 1300 miles home and it is down to 5/32" tread anyway.
Nope. Can't be trusted. Not 1300 miles...

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1999 Suzuki Intruder VL1500LC. Betty Lou.
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post #9 of 16 Old May 25th, 2018, 1:31 pm
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Re: Old LT or new Wing?

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I agree. Of all the bikes we sat in at IMS Cleveland, the new Venture was the most comfortable and has massive storage. If it had the V-4 engine, I would probably buy it. No way I'm riding an air cooled (cooked?) V-twin in temps above 80.

The Wing is a great basic platform. If Honda decides to offer a 7 gallon fuel tank, bags that will hold an XL FF helmet and a decent passenger seat, I might buy one. The chances of this are about the same as Yamaha re-engining the Venture.

The LT is still getting the job done and until I ride a GA, the GTL is the leading candidate as successor.
We are thinking identically. The Grand America is one I'm interested in, Have to ride one. And the GTL. Which aesthetically and a little concerning the style i'm not fond of. Or a water cooled RT. But. It's not a first choice. But i just don't see other choices. The Triumph Trophy looks great. But. The Wife doesn't care for it. The foot/seat arrangement. The LT is the only bike that gets her enthusiastic thumbs up.

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post #10 of 16 Old May 25th, 2018, 1:36 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james216 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
I plugged it. It holds air sitting in the parking lot, but lost 5 psi the one day we rode on it. Can't trust it to make the 1300 miles home and it is down to 5/32" tread anyway.
Nope. Can't be trusted. Not 1300 miles...
I might try it riding alone, but not with wife aboard.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #11 of 16 Old May 26th, 2018, 8:02 am
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Re: Old LT or new Wing?

Wow! That had to be interesting, trying to turn left with that screw in there. Hope the rest of your trip is uneventful.

Steve
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post #12 of 16 Old May 26th, 2018, 6:42 pm
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Re: Old LT or new Wing?

I had a '16 GTLE after having an '08 Wing. For get up and go, corners and flick ability it was the GTL hands down. For quiet wind pocket and comfort it was the Wing. For the best of both, with some compromise it's my new to me '06 LT. The Wing was the best for my Sweetie since she sat lower. The GTL was the absolute worst for her. I hope that Honda reverts to a touring bike in the next couple of years while keeping the updates that help improve the riding experience for both the rider and passenger. However I think I'm done with the 20k and more bikes. I would rather find another LT or '12 to '16 Wing in a couple of years. That's one of the great things about riding. So many choices. Sad to hear about your lack of support. I'll be looking around for another option now.
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post #13 of 16 Old May 26th, 2018, 7:49 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Old LT or new Wing?

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I had a '16 GTLE after having an '08 Wing. For get up and go, corners and flick ability it was the GTL hands down. For quiet wind pocket and comfort it was the Wing. For the best of both, with some compromise it's my new to me '06 LT. The Wing was the best for my Sweetie since she sat lower. The GTL was the absolute worst for her. I hope that Honda reverts to a touring bike in the next couple of years while keeping the updates that help improve the riding experience for both the rider and passenger. However I think I'm done with the 20k and more bikes. I would rather find another LT or '12 to '16 Wing in a couple of years. That's one of the great things about riding. So many choices. Sad to hear about your lack of support. I'll be looking around for another option now.
Your experience mirrors ours. I am still holding out hope for the GA. It brings mighty K performance and fuel capacity with a more wing-like passenger seating position. If that doesn't get close enough to the mark, I will keep the LT a few more years and suffer the maintenance and repair costs and time. Hey, it is paid for after all!

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #14 of 16 Old May 28th, 2018, 1:29 am
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Re: Old LT or new Wing?

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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
As many at CCR know, I picked up a large screw in my rear tire on the way in to Russellville. I plugged it and we rode Wednesday, but the tire lost 5 psi that day and my wife Linda wasn't comfortable riding on it so I decided today to seek out a new tire. Since the nearest BMW dealer appears to be in Little Rock, I decided to start with Honda of Russellville since they are literally next to the hotel.

Honda of Russellville was very accommodating in regard to our tire situation. They believe they can have one in tomorrow around 10:00 and will mount it if I remove the wheel from the bike, which is easy with the LT rear wheel. So, hopefully, we are back on the road by noon tomorrow with a new tire.

My opinion of the BMWMOA Platinum road service plan (administered by Nation Safe Drivers) is not nearly so positive. What a run around they gave me and the dealer to get authorization to replace the tire under my coverage plan. We spent over an hour on the phone in a total of three phone calls to get replacement authorization to get my $250 coverage. The phone reps did all they could to find a way to deny my claim and really inconvenienced the Honda parts man who was really trying to help get me back on the road. What a complete lack of customer care and service.

Since we were stuck at the hotel, I asked about a Wing test ride since they have about 20 Wings in stock. They said sure so we rode a Red DCT Tour 64 miles up route 7 to Jasper for lunch. The DCT isn't bad, but takes some getting used to. Not sure if I would want one. The Wing has good power, much better down low than my LT, but nothing like the mighty K1600 BMW.

The bike feels much smaller than my LT and handles similarly. Responsive, but not really nimble like the K1600. The suspension is soft and underdamped. So, the ride is cushy, but not as controlled as my LT and not nearly as good as the K1600's ESA. The brakes work very well, nearly equal to my LT. The wind protection was as good as my LT and better for Linda than the LT as she sits lower. And much better for her than the K1600.

The seat was firm for me, but Linda said hers was like a concrete bench. And she felt more out in the open as the backrest is much smaller than our LT and the passenger grab handles are nearly under the seat and hard to reach. The storage is really poor. A full face helmet will not fit in the side cases and only one will fit in the trunk. Fuel mileage seems poor as I used more than half a tank in 128 miles. We left with 3/4 tank and were on the last bar when we returned. Although, I decided to fill the bike since we took it so far, and the pump kicked off at only 3.92 gallons in a supposedly 5.5 gallon tank. The filler neck is quite odd and let's the nozzle go deep into the tank so maybe it wasn't really full.

The dash is nice, but our high-viz yellow jackets glared badly on the flat plastic dash cover and Honda still has way too many small buttons that are hard to use with gloves on. BMW's controls are much easier to use and the K1600 "whiz wheel" works all the time where Honda's joystick wheel only works when stopped. All-in-all, a nice machine for a solo rider or maybe weekend trips, but for a couple that really wants to travel, you would have to tow a trailer. Not a bike we will likely buy anytime soon. Need to try the K1600 Grand America, but probably will stick with the LT a few more years. After all, it is the Ultimate Luxury Touring Machine.

I will say that Honda of Russellville has great prices. They are the #1 Wing dealer in the US selling 2-300 a year. They are a volume dealer with volume pricing, but even at $25K, the Wing just isn't the bike for us. It is selling well initially for HoR and the salesman told me that 95% of their sales are DCT models. He expects Honda will drop the manual transmission in a few years if this sales ratio holds.
Thanks for the perspective. It's great to have one person compare the different bikes because you just can't accurately compare reviews from different people who have not ridden all the other bikes
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post #15 of 16 Old May 28th, 2018, 10:33 am Thread Starter
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Re: Old LT or new Wing?

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Thanks for the perspective. It's great to have one person compare the different bikes because you just can't accurately compare reviews from different people who have not ridden all the other bikes
True, but you still get that person's bias. I am biased towards long distance (multi-week trips), two-up, luxury touring with a fair bit of sportiness thrown in, but sportiness is definitely is second fiddle to the luxury touring component for me. So, keep that in mind as you read my test ride impressions.

I need to test ride a GA now and maybe a "new fairing" GTL and, if occasion presents, a new Venture, but I can't imagine liking an air-cooled V-twin. The GTL is still a long shot as my wife is 5'9" and doesn't like towering above me on that high passenger perch. The stock seat is too low for me, but I will likely try an RDL on my next bike. They might be able to raise the height of the rider seat to lessen the height differential to the passenger perch. And if the fairing manages the wind better as some have said, it might just tip the balance enough to switch over from my LT.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #16 of 16 Old May 28th, 2018, 8:13 pm
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Re: Old LT or new Wing?

I test rode a K1600B. Rode my LT there and and after. The 1600 is a great motor and the bike was flawless. But, I liked the ride of my LT better. I just wish it was lighter, not as top heavy and didn't have power assist brakes. Other than the radio & gps (which are very dated) the LT does everything I want and need it to do.

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