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post #1 of 30 Old Dec 27th, 2006, 11:43 pm Thread Starter
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Question speedometer

I started the bike to come home from work tonight, around midnight, was a little hard to start, got it started but the needle on the speedo flipped all the way around and stayed there. Did not move the bike at all, I cut the bike off once warm and restarted hoping it would return to its rightfull place but no luck. It did not fix itself on the way home either, now no speedo. any ideas on how to fix?
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post #2 of 30 Old Dec 28th, 2006, 7:03 am
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I have a Ford Mustang that has had it's needles all go all the way to the top but they came back down in a couple of seconds a couple of different times.
Since yours didn't come back I would think something is needing to be fixed. Before getting too worried I would disconnect the battery for a while. That seems to fix several other things the LT's have go wrong.
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post #3 of 30 Old Dec 28th, 2006, 8:00 am
 
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Question

What year is the LT? 05/06, I presume?
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post #4 of 30 Old Dec 28th, 2006, 8:52 am Thread Starter
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02 ltc. I removed the battery for about an hour and reconected, no luck, looks like a trip to the dealer.
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post #5 of 30 Old Dec 28th, 2006, 9:03 am
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Mike-

I just left a message with Dr. "Jack" and told him his patient needed a visit! I'm around if he can see you and we can delve into it together. I've been into the speedo cluster area doing my HID instal years ago....and surely there's a way to get it unstuck by some means!!

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post #6 of 30 Old Dec 28th, 2006, 9:03 am
 
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Is the odometer still working properly?
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post #7 of 30 Old Dec 28th, 2006, 10:04 am
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I'm researching it....

Mike,

I am researching this in the manual and will let you know if I find anything out. One question -- does anyone know right off hand which year BMW changed to the fully electronic gauges?

Jack Homesley
Cornelius, NC USA
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post #8 of 30 Old Dec 28th, 2006, 11:38 am
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As many times as you guys have had the swing arm off, I would take a close look at the wire harness in that area. Possibly a short to ground or open on part of this circuit may cause a pegged speedo. Possibly a pulled wire from one end or the other of the harness could be the culprit also.

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post #9 of 30 Old Dec 28th, 2006, 11:45 am
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MAN, that hurts....

Quote:
Originally Posted by bowlesj
As many times as you guys have had the swing arm off, I would take a close look at the wire harness in that area. Possibly a short to ground or open on part of this circuit may cause a pegged speedo. Possibly a pulled wire from one end or the other of the harness could be the culprit also.

We sure did have to take that sucker apart several times.... but, you know, we got so good at it that we never even had to touch one wire. But anyway, it sure is worth looking. man, that hurts John!

(Whispering to Mike - "We didn't have to touch any wires did we?")

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post #10 of 30 Old Dec 28th, 2006, 12:18 pm
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What's weird is that is swung all the over on start up and stayed there. I haven't heard of that one yet.

Like was said earlier, check the wire at the rear of the bike. Lots of known problems with the factory zip tie cutting into it where it's secured at the brake line.



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post #11 of 30 Old Dec 28th, 2006, 12:21 pm Thread Starter
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checked all the wiring, seems ok, went to the dealer, they are closed till 2 jan. speedo does not move at all due to it being stuck on the back side of the stop in the dash
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post #12 of 30 Old Dec 28th, 2006, 12:32 pm
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Just after I got my bike with 17k miles on it, the speedo started acting up. It's also an '02. When sitting idling at a stop, the needle used to jump to high speeds and back intermittently.
Luckily it was still under warranty and after looking at it for about 2 weeks the dealer replaced the instrument cluster and placed a sticker on the frame to say the odo was 17K shy.
I know this is not what you want to hear, but....

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post #13 of 30 Old Dec 28th, 2006, 2:38 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheldan2
checked all the wiring, seems ok, went to the dealer, they are closed till 2 jan. speedo does not move at all due to it being stuck on the back side of the stop in the dash
You didn't happen to try the cruise control on your trip to the dealer, didja? I'm wondering if the cruise control is gonna work with the speedo needle locked hard over to the right??
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post #14 of 30 Old Dec 28th, 2006, 3:37 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
You didn't happen to try the cruise control on your trip to the dealer, didja? I'm wondering if the cruise control is gonna work with the speedo needle locked hard over to the right??
It may work fine, depending on which end the faliure is. If it is just the speedo, the cruise should remain unaffected. If the "sender" or VSS is bad it may well mess up the cruise depending which channel the cruise uses on the VSS.
Not real sure how the LT's operate the speedo & related items but it should be off of some kind of sender or Vehicle Speed Sensor which is generally a 2 channel sensor. One channel runs the speedo and the other goes to the ECM. Which one the cruise uses??
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post #15 of 30 Old Dec 28th, 2006, 5:21 pm
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Can you post a pic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheldan2
checked all the wiring, seems ok, went to the dealer, they are closed till 2 jan. speedo does not move at all due to it being stuck on the back side of the stop in the dash

Mike,

Is there anyway you can post a close-up picture of the needle and its position? Mine is the old style, but I have seen speedos "jump" the pin (stop) from time to time and once it's on the other side, it cannot return to normal on its own.

It would be worthwhile to disassemble the cluster, physically move the needle back to the proper side of the stop and see if it works. It probably will. As to WHY they will sometimes go past the proper point...could be "slop" (wear), electrical malfunction, etc.

Jack Homesley
Cornelius, NC USA
'06 Goldwing - "The Black Pearl"
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post #16 of 30 Old Dec 28th, 2006, 7:04 pm Thread Starter
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cruise works fine, so not that end of the spectrum, just have to figure out how fast 4500 rpm is, state troopers were giving me an evil eye on the way to the dealership, figured I had one chance of getting away with speeding a bit with the speedo broken
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post #17 of 30 Old Dec 28th, 2006, 7:36 pm Thread Starter
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pics of speedo

here is a pic of speedo
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post #18 of 30 Old Dec 28th, 2006, 7:50 pm
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The Fix????

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheldan2
here is a pic of speedo

Thanks for the pics Mike. We will address this problem at my place on Saturday Morning and try THE fix that I believe will work and save us at least 3-4 hours of labor.

If it works, you can believe we will post pics and a description of the fix. If it doesn't....well, let's not even go there...it's going to work! See 'ya Saturday AM! Let me know what time.

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post #19 of 30 Old Dec 28th, 2006, 9:07 pm
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Odd. In one picture the needle is about 6 O'clock and the other 2 it is against the peg at zero. If it were running in the last 2 I would say that the needle had somehow dropped below the peg and got stuck.
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post #20 of 30 Old Dec 28th, 2006, 10:01 pm
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ahh...You're getting warm!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morley
Odd. In one picture the needle is about 6 O'clock and the other 2 it is against the peg at zero. If it were running in the last 2 I would say that the needle had somehow dropped below the peg and got stuck.

Very good Grasshopper!

Great Observation. I was actually going to post and ask people to look closely at the pics and try to suggest a solution. I talked through the pics over the phone with Mike and here's another clue:

The first picture is the speedo when the bike and ignition are turned OFF. Needle drops slowly to approx. a 6 o'clock position.

The second and third pics are with ignition ON.
Needle rises to and then hits the peg/stop. It stays there and upon acceleration stays tight to the underside of the peg.

It is my belief that if we can get the needle back on the correct side of the peg, it will work properly. (Of course, I have inside information on how it got on the wrong side)

Now...and especially you JOE...HERE'S THE CHALLENGE: How could one get the needle back on the correct side of the peg w/o dissasembling the whole front end??????

Jack Homesley
Cornelius, NC USA
'06 Goldwing - "The Black Pearl"
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post #21 of 30 Old Dec 28th, 2006, 10:24 pm
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Just saw this post.

It may be that the needle got loose on it's stem and moved. You have to remove the front face of the instrument cluster to pull it off and re-position it. You need to re-position it with the ignition on to be sure it is in the correct position. Not sure that is the problem though.

It was not mentioned what year bike it is. Pre-'02 used the speed sensor on the final drive. But, failure of the sensor, or shorted wire will not cause the problem shown. The sensor only sends a pulse train of around 1 volt to the speedo board. The system uses pulse counting for the ODO, and a digital train converted to analog to drive the speedo. No pulse train, no speedo/odo action of any kind.

It may be that something on the speedo board has failed, causing the converted digital to analog voltage to the speedo meter movement to go high and stay there.

The sensor is only one channel.

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post #22 of 30 Old Dec 28th, 2006, 11:56 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cccpastorjack
Now...and especially you JOE...HERE'S THE CHALLENGE: How could one get the needle back on the correct side of the peg w/o dissasembling the whole front end??????
What is the needle made of? If it were a ferris metal I'd try a powerful magnet, but I'm betting it is plastic. And therefor, with the bike off you'd need to lean it over so the needle swings to the right, once it is back up past half way around, turn the bike on and hopefully it will then pull the needle around to the right way.
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post #23 of 30 Old Dec 29th, 2006, 5:09 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cccpastorjack
How could one get the needle back on the correct side of the peg w/o dissasembling the whole front end??????
I don't think it can be done, even if you hold your lips right.



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post #24 of 30 Old Dec 30th, 2006, 11:12 am
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OH...but we DID get it fixed !!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
I don't think it can be done, even if you hold your lips right.

Mike came over this morning and the speedometer is now fixed!!! Since his clear speedometer cover was already somewhat scratched, we very carefully drilled a 3/16" hole in the clear cover. It is a softer type of material and drilled well with no cracking whatsoever. We also used a very strong vacuum close to the point of drilling to keep any shaving from falling inside of the housing. It went very well.

We then took a straightened paper clip and moved the needle back to the correct side of the peg. Moved very easily.

To button up nicely, we used a 3/16" black plug from Lowes that looks very clean (almost looks like the two clock adjustment "thingies") and with a tiny amount of clear silicone sealer obtained a tight seal and WAALAA!!!! the job was finished in under 15 minutes with minimal labor! No removal of all that tupperware and the black plug does not interfere with any sight lines on the gauges!

How's that for ingenuity?
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post #25 of 30 Old Dec 30th, 2006, 11:57 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cccpastorjack
Mike came over this morning and the speedometer is now fixed!!! Since his clear speedometer cover was already somewhat scratched, we very carefully drilled a 3/16" hole in the clear cover. It is a softer type of material and drilled well with no cracking whatsoever. We also used a very strong vacuum close to the point of drilling to keep any shaving from falling inside of the housing. It went very well.

We then took a straightened paper clip and moved the needle back to the correct side of the peg. Moved very easily.

To button up nicely, we used a 3/16" black plug from Lowes that looks very clean (almost looks like the two clock adjustment "thingies") and with a tiny amount of clear silicone sealer obtained a tight seal and WAALAA!!!! the job was finished in under 15 minutes with minimal labor! No removal of all that tupperware and the black plug does not interfere with any sight lines on the gauges!

How's that for ingenuity?
Man oh man! You are just a genius, I tell ya. Good job!



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post #26 of 30 Old Dec 30th, 2006, 1:46 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cccpastorjack
Mike came over this morning and the speedometer is now fixed!!! How's that for ingenuity?
Great job, Jack. Neat and clean.

The thought I have is why did it happen in the first place? First I've ever heard of it on an LT. At that 'overpeg' position, wouldn't the needle still try to spin clockwise and slam up against the right side of the peg? Bewilderin' to me.

And I assume after Mike started the bike again, and rode off, the needle acted normal at start and on the road?

Anyway, glad she's all aligned now and no more worries for Mike.
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post #27 of 30 Old Dec 30th, 2006, 2:11 pm Thread Starter
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Smile

all is fine with the "speedometer" again, works like it should, will be ordering a new battery today, so no more problems starting, and possibly having the speedometer go haywire again. Thanks again Jack.
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post #28 of 30 Old Dec 30th, 2006, 3:07 pm
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It Was An Electrical Surge...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
Great job, Jack. Neat and clean.

The thought I have is why did it happen in the first place? First I've ever heard of it on an LT. At that 'overpeg' position, wouldn't the needle still try to spin clockwise and slam up against the right side of the peg? Bewilderin' to me.

And I assume after Mike started the bike again, and rode off, the needle acted normal at start and on the road?

Anyway, glad she's all aligned now and no more worries for Mike.
Dick,

It was an electrical surge (I guess) when the battery failed and then was jumped off. Mike said the needle pegged quickly all the way to the right and (I think) slammed back "jumping" the peg. Mike said he never really saw it come back to the left and maybe it didn't...I wasn't there. Anyway, once it was in this position, it was impossible for it to return.

BECAUSE...when the ignition was off, it would lay limp at about a dead 6 o'clock position. (Don't even go there!)

When we turned the ignition to "on" it would rise to just about 1mm below the peg. When the bike was moved forward, it would always stay pressed against the right side of the peg, but could not go any further. Once we put it back on the proper side of the peg it works fine.

I have seen this several times in the past on other bikes...just not on a LT, but then, I am brand new in the BMW community...Butt (as you like to say), I learnin' real fast!

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post #29 of 30 Old Dec 30th, 2006, 7:40 pm
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Nice save, Jack, cool outside the box thinking.

[Hijack ON]
My wife commuted between Dallas and Charlotte for a couple of years, she kept a place in Cornelius right on the lake. I enjoyed going there, it's beautiful area with great people (but you already knew that). Funny thing is that my five year old daughter has a bit of the NC "twang" in her speech, as that is where she first learned to talk.
[Hijack OFF]

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post #30 of 30 Old Dec 30th, 2006, 8:32 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deputy5211
Nice save, Jack, cool outside the box thinking.

[Hijack ON]
My wife commuted between Dallas and Charlotte for a couple of years, she kept a place in Cornelius right on the lake. I enjoyed going there, it's beautiful area with great people (but you already knew that). Funny thing is that my five year old daughter has a bit of the NC "twang" in her speech, as that is where she first learned to talk.
[Hijack OFF]

Oh wow...I live right in Cornelius...very near Lake Norman and man do I have a "twang"! I am one of the very few "locals" here now, as many have "transplanted" in from all over the place. I pastor a large church of about 1,600 people and man...do they love to make fun of my speech. If they only knew how much I work to control it!

Hey...God bless and have a great day!

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