Do I Repair The Exhaust ? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 3Likes
  • 1 Post By beech
  • 1 Post By PMitchell
  • 1 Post By Voyager
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 17 Old Apr 12th, 2018, 5:29 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 71
Do I Repair The Exhaust ?

The exhaust pipe is blowing.
Seems like a crack under the left foot-peg - just aft of the 4 into 1 join.

I know that to repair this will involve removing the eight nuts on the four pipes at the manifold and at least two of the studs will shear.
Then the head has to come off to drill out and replace the sheared studs.
Then find a welder to fix the pipe (the easiest bit of the whole process)

Do I ;
1. Settle back and start a long involved job.
2. Pretend it isn't important and keep washing the soot stains off by the left foot-peg.
3. Tear down everything while I am at it and re-furb everything I can find.
4. Leave it to the dealer and write a large cheque.

What would you do ?
Bimbler is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 Old Apr 12th, 2018, 7:11 pm
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,004
Re: Do I Repair The Exhaust ?

The bolts should back out of the head before they shear so you should be fine there. The exhaust is I believe stainless so you will need to find someone who can weld that with the proper shielding gas or flux combination but it is not all that uncommon to have a crack there.

8 nuts and the o2 sensor once you get the tupperware off to see it all.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwcoolk1200 is online now  
post #3 of 17 Old Apr 12th, 2018, 8:29 pm
Senior Member
 
Temesvar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 181
Garage
Re: Do I Repair The Exhaust ?

I had a rusted muffler, and crappy looking headers on my RT.
Had them ceramic coated, and like the looks. Removing the
exhaust should be without incidents, a welder knows how to
deal with stainless, and ceramic coating is not so expensive.
In the end you have a exhaust that is calibrated for your bike,
fixed and looking better (if you like black exhaust as most bikes
these days have) Good luck with your choice!
Just my 2 cents...

2008 RT Biarritz Blue
2007 Triumph Sprint ST(sold)
memories:
1986 Yamaha FJ 1200
1985 Yamaha FJ 1100
1983 Yamaha XJ 900
Temesvar is offline  
 
post #4 of 17 Old Apr 12th, 2018, 10:12 pm
Wrencher Extraordinaire
 
jzeiler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hazel Green, AL, USA
Posts: 13,271
Re: Do I Repair The Exhaust ?

I have removed at least 8 exhausts on LTs and never had a stud shear off. You will need the copper donut gaskets and I recommend the new nuts they sell now. I would not waist money on a ceramic coating since you cannot see the pipes anyway. Check for flange cracks as well.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jzeiler is offline  
post #5 of 17 Old Apr 13th, 2018, 4:56 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 71
Re: Do I Repair The Exhaust ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
I have removed at least 8 exhausts on LTs and never had a stud shear off. You will need the copper donut gaskets and I recommend the new nuts they sell now. I would not waist money on a ceramic coating since you cannot see the pipes anyway. Check for flange cracks as well.
Any special tips for undoing the nuts ?
Bimbler is offline  
post #6 of 17 Old Apr 13th, 2018, 7:19 pm
Wrencher Extraordinaire
 
jzeiler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hazel Green, AL, USA
Posts: 13,271
Re: Do I Repair The Exhaust ?

I have never done any prep work at all but look at them for serious rust (big growths). I have had nuts stuck on the studs and the studs have always just come out of the head. I would remove the nuts in a vise or double nutting and reinstall the studs. The old nut appears to be steel and the new nuts appear to be bronze. More common for exhaust nuts.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jzeiler is offline  
post #7 of 17 Old Apr 14th, 2018, 12:13 am
Senior Member
 
beech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Mount Vernon, WA, USA
Posts: 2,542
Re: Do I Repair The Exhaust ?

Just spray them with some penetrating oil, let it soak for an hour. (please something other than wd40) If the nut is frozen, the stud will come out. Buy new studs and nuts, they are actually cheap from the dealer, also the donut copper metalic crush seals. Torque is a tad over 16 ft/lbs.
Looking good with ceramic spray coating is nice but it also helps with corrosion if you are not using stainless steel pipes. There was a company that even treated the interiors. Think positive and this will be a piece of cake.
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...ting+oil+spray
Voyager likes this.

Beech
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I change your tires $50, you buy them on the web.
K13S, S1000R (gone through a few GS's & RT's)
beech is offline  
post #8 of 17 Old Apr 14th, 2018, 11:48 am
Lifetime Supporter
 
PMitchell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hudson, OH, USA
Posts: 2,892
Re: Do I Repair The Exhaust ?

Use this formula with high success rate!

Home made Penetrating Oil


Here is an interesting finding on Penetrating Oils
Recently “Machinist Workshop Magazine” did a test on penetrating oils. Using nuts and
bolts that they ‘scientifically rusted’ to a uniform degree by soaking in salt water, they then
tested the break-out torque required to loosen the nuts. They treated the nuts with a variety
of penetrants and measured the torque required to loosen them.
This is what they came up with:
Nothing: 516 lbs
WD-40: 238 lbs;
PB Blaster: 214 lbs;
Liquid Wrench: 127 lbs,
Kano Kroil: 106 lbs
(ATF)/Acetone mix (50/50): 50 lbs.

This last “shop brew” of 50% automatic transmission fluid and 50% acetone appears to beat
out the commercially prepared products costing far more.
beech likes this.

pm
--
Life is too short to do anything
other than that about which you
are absolutely passionate . . .
Ride till you can't!

"Der Weg ist das Ziel"
2005 Pyrenees of France & Spain
2006 Tuscany
2008
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2011 South Africa
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


2014 The Dolomites of Italy, Alps of Switzerland & Austria and returning to Milan via the "Gold Coast" of the French Riveria.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


2016 Northern & Central Spain & Portugal
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


2018 Central & Eastern Europe: Slovenia, Austria, Poland,Hungary, Czech Republic & Slovakia!

2019 Maritime Provinces of Canada & New England 3,500 miles

'18 R1200RTW
'00 K1200LTC (Dealer is taking on consignment!)
'90 K75-Sold to a new BMW owner (2016)
'62 R 50/2 (Rode hard and put away wet)-Sold in '81
'63 Vespa 150 (1st and only dirt bike!)
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Sold in '67



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by PMitchell; Apr 14th, 2018 at 11:54 am.
PMitchell is offline  
post #9 of 17 Old Apr 18th, 2018, 5:10 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 71
Re: Do I Repair The Exhaust ?

And so we learn.

Six of the studs had the nuts well rusted on - and the studs just came out smoothly. Seventh stud; the nut came off and then the stud was removed easily with two nuts locked. Eight new studs and nuts are arriving tomorrow.
Stud number eight had sheared many years ago. Before I bought the bike. I might be able to get the stump out but it is getting to the stage where I might be making more of a mess getting it out than leaving it in. The first drill hole was off centre. I have managed many miles without it - so maybe it can stay as a sheared stump.

Clymer was not as helpful as I had hoped but the routine of "Read Manual, Observe set-up, Think, Act", (in that order) worked well and the exhaust was easily removed, albeit slowly.

Now I have a one piece exhaust (score marks were made before removal for the welder to align in case it separated) with some mighty cracks - but they are in the "easy to weld area" downstream of the box, not in the "four into one" part.

Since a new exhaust (less oxygen sensor) will run to about USD1800 I can afford to pay "local skilled welder" a stout fee for his trouble.
(New studs, nuts and gaskets run to about USD45, I know an excellent BMW dealer with a brilliant guy on the parts desk who will take a phone order and post the bits next day. They are superb and I use them all the time for my bikes.)

This could be a successful project.

Question. When the new studs go in, Should I use any Copper grease or Locktite or just plain in ?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Exhaust.JPG
Views:	82
Size:	1.26 MB
ID:	142978  
Bimbler is offline  
post #10 of 17 Old Apr 18th, 2018, 6:46 pm
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,004
Re: Do I Repair The Exhaust ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimbler View Post
And so we learn.

Six of the studs had the nuts well rusted on - and the studs just came out smoothly. Seventh stud; the nut came off and then the stud was removed easily with two nuts locked. Eight new studs and nuts are arriving tomorrow.
Stud number eight had sheared many years ago. Before I bought the bike. I might be able to get the stump out but it is getting to the stage where I might be making more of a mess getting it out than leaving it in. The first drill hole was off centre. I have managed many miles without it - so maybe it can stay as a sheared stump.

Clymer was not as helpful as I had hoped but the routine of "Read Manual, Observe set-up, Think, Act", (in that order) worked well and the exhaust was easily removed, albeit slowly.

Now I have a one piece exhaust (score marks were made before removal for the welder to align in case it separated) with some mighty cracks - but they are in the "easy to weld area" downstream of the box, not in the "four into one" part.

Since a new exhaust (less oxygen sensor) will run to about USD1800 I can afford to pay "local skilled welder" a stout fee for his trouble.
(New studs, nuts and gaskets run to about USD45, I know an excellent BMW dealer with a brilliant guy on the parts desk who will take a phone order and post the bits next day. They are superb and I use them all the time for my bikes.)

This could be a successful project.

Question. When the new studs go in, Should I use any Copper grease or Locktite or just plain in ?
Make sure and snap a pic of the repaired exhaust so we can see the skill required/executed to fix such an issue.

As far as the new studs go, without making any effort to find the proper way of doing it, I would probably put them in dry and snug them down. If the new nuts are brass as John alludes to then there should not be any further issue of getting them loose. Be aware the clymer torque in my book is incorrect so maje sure you do not strip or snap any of the new studs/nuts if you are working in Ft/Lbs and not Nm.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC_0075.JPG
Views:	56
Size:	396.1 KB
ID:	142986  

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwcoolk1200 is online now  
post #11 of 17 Old Apr 18th, 2018, 9:08 pm
Senior Member
 
beech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Mount Vernon, WA, USA
Posts: 2,542
Re: Do I Repair The Exhaust ?

Do some research on stud removal. Left hand drills are your friend. Half the time they twist out a stud. Otherwise, flatten the nub face with a die grinder, center punch and either left hand twist drill or a small carbide spade drill. Or find a machine shop that will work on it for you while being a whole motorcycle. Your going through a lot of work and another $75 invested in getting that bugger out is well spent. Your headed down the path to a fun summer of riding.

Beech
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I change your tires $50, you buy them on the web.
K13S, S1000R (gone through a few GS's & RT's)
beech is offline  
post #12 of 17 Old Apr 18th, 2018, 9:14 pm
Lifetime Supporter
 
Voyager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lawrenceville, PA, USA
Posts: 7,149
Re: Do I Repair The Exhaust ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PMitchell View Post
Use this formula with high success rate!

Home made Penetrating Oil


Here is an interesting finding on Penetrating Oils
Recently “Machinist Workshop Magazine” did a test on penetrating oils. Using nuts and
bolts that they ‘scientifically rusted’ to a uniform degree by soaking in salt water, they then
tested the break-out torque required to loosen the nuts. They treated the nuts with a variety
of penetrants and measured the torque required to loosen them.
This is what they came up with:
Nothing: 516 lbs
WD-40: 238 lbs;
PB Blaster: 214 lbs;
Liquid Wrench: 127 lbs,
Kano Kroil: 106 lbs
(ATF)/Acetone mix (50/50): 50 lbs.

This last “shop brew” of 50% automatic transmission fluid and 50% acetone appears to beat
out the commercially prepared products costing far more.
Here is a similar test that got very different results. Not sure what to make of it.

RockyRoad likes this.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Voyager is offline  
post #13 of 17 Old May 13th, 2018, 12:38 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 71
Re: Do I Repair The Exhaust ?

Ideally the head would have 9 studs. 8 to hold the exhaust on and one to shear off when you looked at it.

The sheared stud (which broke years ago, before I bought the bike)was eventually drilled out and 8 new ones went in. Usual problem, it was too tight for the extractor (fear of snapping it off) so I had to drill a larger hole - but we were now off centre. Drills were going sideways into the softer metal of the head so a dremmel tool was used to work at the remaining steel crescent without cutting into the aluminum. Then the hole re-threaded.

The pipe came back from the welder and it is fitted, but not yet torqued down. Gear linkage is having a bit of a clean and grease.
Only worry is if the welding fumes knackered the oxygen sensor. Not sure if this is a valid concern but we will see. Should be riding "The Luftmeister" on Tuesday.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Exweld1.jpg
Views:	84
Size:	1.47 MB
ID:	144353  

Last edited by Bimbler; May 13th, 2018 at 12:44 pm.
Bimbler is offline  
post #14 of 17 Old May 13th, 2018, 4:14 pm
Lifetime Supporter
 
Voyager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lawrenceville, PA, USA
Posts: 7,149
Re: Do I Repair The Exhaust ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimbler View Post
Ideally the head would have 9 studs. 8 to hold the exhaust on and one to shear off when you looked at it.

The sheared stud (which broke years ago, before I bought the bike)was eventually drilled out and 8 new ones went in. Usual problem, it was too tight for the extractor (fear of snapping it off) so I had to drill a larger hole - but we were now off centre. Drills were going sideways into the softer metal of the head so a dremmel tool was used to work at the remaining steel crescent without cutting into the aluminum. Then the hole re-threaded.

The pipe came back from the welder and it is fitted, but not yet torqued down. Gear linkage is having a bit of a clean and grease.
Only worry is if the welding fumes knackered the oxygen sensor. Not sure if this is a valid concern but we will see. Should be riding "The Luftmeister" on Tuesday.
Nice looking welds. Just torque carefully and be sure you have the right value. At least one Clymer edition had an incorrect value.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Voyager is offline  
post #15 of 17 Old May 14th, 2018, 6:42 am
Senior Member
 
james216's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Garfield Hts, Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,384
Re: Do I Repair The Exhaust ?

Well. Nice Job. I was gonna suggest replacement as an option. But i see you are well ahead now.

2004 K1200LT. Big Mama
1999 Suzuki Intruder VL1500LC. Betty Lou.
I'm a 4 percenter.
james216 is offline  
post #16 of 17 Old May 14th, 2018, 6:57 am
Senior Member
 
james216's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Garfield Hts, Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,384
Re: Do I Repair The Exhaust ?

We use Kroil at were i work. It usually works on really nasty bolt/nuts. Usually. The only times i seen it not work is when the nut or bolt flats are rusted away and beyond tools being able to grab. But sometimes a bolt extractor will remove those. Kroil or blaster I've found will 8 times out of 10 work. But some are destined for the hot wrench.

2004 K1200LT. Big Mama
1999 Suzuki Intruder VL1500LC. Betty Lou.
I'm a 4 percenter.
james216 is offline  
post #17 of 17 Old May 14th, 2018, 5:15 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 71
Re: Do I Repair The Exhaust ?

Job done. And a lovely test ride on a glorious day with a strangely quiet bike.

Top Tip - When removing fasteners, push them through a piece of cardboard in a pattern that matches where they came from.
A month later, when you have no memory of what went where it tells you all you need to know.
Amazingly I had no left over screws and no holes without screws.

Tupperware geeks will recognise the patten of upper and lower port side fairing fasteners. Which for some reason is upside down in this post. (Note the pack of Spieglers - another story to follow ).

The cardboard was from a box of very good beers from Marstons's
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Fasteners.JPG
Views:	58
Size:	549.8 KB
ID:	144425  
Bimbler is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW Luxury Touring Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Exhaust Rattle - Solution and some photo explanations AAX94 K1200LT 5 May 22nd, 2012 1:14 pm
2010 RT exhaust leak BigKev RT Series 8 Dec 22nd, 2010 7:06 pm
Federal Motorcycle Universal Repair Program Ted Shred Chit Chat 9 Jan 11th, 2010 1:12 am
Cracked exhaust and vibration bowlesj K1200LT 2 Aug 4th, 2009 12:48 pm
Tire Repair warning from Dunlop cfell Tires 3 Dec 3rd, 2006 7:35 pm

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome