Crashed K1200lt No power to fuel pump wires. - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 25 Old Mar 31st, 2018, 8:11 pm Thread Starter
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Crashed K1200lt No power to fuel pump wires.

Like the titles says. its crashed. Original owner(dad's best man) got hit by a dumptruck, lost his leg and thought it wasn't worth anything anymore. asked us to sell anything we could off of it, and keep half. we got to looking at it, and started to wonder if anything was actually wrong with it. no cracks in frame, just a busted Crank cover. sold all the useless stuff off of it, stripping it down to the frame, put a new crank cover on it, and after weeks of figuring out how to get the motor to crank over, got it to run by just pouring gas into the intake. Once I knew it could run I started tearing more off of it, took the subframe off, and the ABS, the center stand(pretty much anything that made it heavy and wasn't essential) since the fuel tank is busted by the fuel pump, and the fuel pump is useless(bought a different tank to put on top) I got a inline fuel pump to just sit on the outside. Well As I am stripping the wires for the fuel pump(Green/white stripe. And brown wire) I decided to see if it gets 12v when you turn the key on, and if goes back off, like they usually cycle. But I am getting nothing. I also fried the starter relay when I was wiring the batter back up, because I didn't pay attention that a black wire was actually powered, so the relay got fried. So I was going to see if I get 12v while cranking, but can't even crank right now.

Long story short, I have tried researching wire diagrams, I've read every forum about any k1200lt that wont start(only one related to not having 12v to the pump) every diagram I have seen isn't detail, doesn't show the green/white wire coming from fuel pump, doesn't even show "fuel pump"
so I am trying to trace wires, I see that the wire goes to a bundle of green/white wires, and the largest one goes to relays. the fuses are also good(I know about #4 15amp that is for the pump) these bikes don't need the abs, or center stand in order for the fuel pump to run do they? This has been a very slow project, every time I run into something I walk away from it for a few months. Before I go any further I think I will manually apply power to the pump to make sure that the fuel injection system works before I put more time into it.

Thanks!
Luke
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post #2 of 25 Old Mar 31st, 2018, 8:25 pm
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Re: Crashed K1200lt No power to fuel pump wires.

Wow what a project. That green/white wire for the fuel pump is fed from the fuel pump relay which is fed from fuse F11, a 10 amp. The relay is controlled by the ECU. And yes it will only come on for a few seconds at key on but you can make it cycle by flipping the kill switch in and out. In fact the relay drives the injector power as well (fired by grounds from the ECU). It is Green/white all the way to the relay. Here is a legend for the relays. The starter relay is pricey, $149 and is voltage sensitive preventing low battery start attempts. Good luck.

Fuse #4 is a 7.5 amp and is for the horn, alarm and brake lights. F11 is for the fuel pump.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #3 of 25 Old Mar 31st, 2018, 10:19 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Crashed K1200lt No power to fuel pump wires.

Yeah, I am not planning on returning it back to original, wouldn't be cost effective that way. I guess I found some bad information on the fuses? hmm, either way I checked all of them. Thank you for the info, really what I was looking for. I seen where the wire went to the relays, but without knowing what does what, haven't tried anything yet. But nothing should be stopping the ECU from powering the pump other than the common killswitch/neutral/center stand etc....? I seen that the starter relays I pretty pricey, and finally found out why. I took it apart and seen that it has a chip in it to keep it from starting under low voltage. Since I won't have radios/alarm/heaters I am not to worried about replacing it, rather just use a different relay off a car or a garden tractor relay. But that's not what I am worried about yet.

Thanks,
Luke
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post #4 of 25 Old Apr 1st, 2018, 10:20 am
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Re: Crashed K1200lt No power to fuel pump wires.

OK if picture two is what you have now I assume you removed the alarm system. If so you need to find the 12 pin connector for the alarm.

To get the bike running again you need to jumper the following pins on the 12 pin connector. Pin 3 (black/white/yellow) to pin 11 (black/yellow); this is the starter button signal to the starter relay.

For the 05 and up only: Then jumper pin 10 (green/violet, switched power) to both pin 2 (Green, flasher module) and pin 6 (blue/violet, engine electronics relay). Now the bike will start and run normally and your flashers will work. This powers the Engine electronics relay (ECU power) so this will get the fuel pump running.

Also the starter signal does go through the reverser controller but I assume that is still there as well as two micro switches on the reverse knob shaft.

The LT has a lot of stuff interconnected.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #5 of 25 Old Apr 1st, 2018, 1:59 pm Thread Starter
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Yeah I jumped the security. However I didn't know about the extra wire. Added that, flipped a relay to see if I get 12v but I don't. Wires that go to the fuel pump relay. one is hot all the time(red and green) you turn the key on and 2 more get 12v(a blue/violet wire and green/violet) but the green and white stays cold.

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post #6 of 25 Old Apr 1st, 2018, 2:17 pm Thread Starter
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I know the ignition worked before I ripped the back all the way off. SO I'm currently charging battery to try and see if ignition still works.
Video below is old
https://youtu.be/s0sDW7VE8N4

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post #7 of 25 Old Apr 1st, 2018, 5:10 pm Thread Starter
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Okay, okay....won't run with manually pouring gas in the intake, and jumping the starter(since I am assuming the starter relay is bad, which it might not be) doesn't look like I have spark. The dash cluster wasn't working before, now it works and cycles what looks normal. Neutral light will cycle on and then back off(but it obviously is in neutral because its not trying to go anywhere when I crank) But where is the neutral sensor? what did I unplug? Wish I had checked that the fuel pump wire had 12v before I stripped all the rear off.

I've been reading other post with people having ignition problems, and you(john I believe?) kept going back to the reverse controller. I don't believe I messed with it, I mean I took the center stand and motor off(I can't remember if that was before or during taking the rear off) is there a way I can remove and bypass the reverse controller to scratch that off the list?

EDIT: I looked up a reverse controller, it may have gotten sold. Right now the snow is kicking in, and it's got me burned out again. I'll have to go out and see if I still have it.

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post #8 of 25 Old Apr 2nd, 2018, 5:12 pm
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Re: Crashed K1200lt No power to fuel pump wires.

You can bypass it but since no one has ever done it before (we all like our reverse). I'll have to go look at the schematics and see if I can figure out how. Even the BMW factory diagrams leave a lot to be desired since they don't always show full connectivity. The reverse controller would not affect the ECU power relay but the it will affect the starter signal.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #9 of 25 Old Apr 2nd, 2018, 9:44 pm Thread Starter
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Thanks a lot for the help, sadly I was one of the guys, chasing my tail, researching on and off for the last 4 months, then finally breaks down to ask for help, and it ends up being something I took off(which is weird because I thought I tried putting the backup controller on to see if that was it, but still did nothing. must not of had the barrel connector fully connected) so yeah, now I have power to fuel pump, and my starter relay actually works. Ever since my dad bought my mom a VW bug, it's been electrical nightmare, but some reason I thought they would do better on BMW, I mean who runs stuff through a controller? I guess I am just too use to the way stuff was built before fancyness came out haha. Now I just need to find a full schematic, so I can easily remove any wires that I don't need(seat warmers, speakers, backup controller, since It won't be a huge touring bike anymore, and its just extra weight, and anything else) So if you have a good source for all of that, would be great!

Here's video of the start up.
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Last edited by lukebrinkerhoff; Apr 2nd, 2018 at 10:03 pm.
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post #10 of 25 Old Apr 3rd, 2018, 11:59 am
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Re: Crashed K1200lt No power to fuel pump wires.

Glad you got it running. The reason "stuff" runs through the reverser controller is that to reverse, you engage the F-R knob and press the starter button. The controller sends a reduced voltage to the starter motor that drives the reverse gear. It also connects to the ECU to up the idle while reversing. Like I said this was a very complicated bike on how these systems interact. A K1200RS or S would be much simpler with no reverse.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #11 of 25 Old Apr 3rd, 2018, 6:20 pm Thread Starter
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Seems to be that way with anything German built, little more use to simplicity, but with this, and my job nothing is that way anymore. If it was truly my choice for a project like this, I would have choose a different bike, but I can't complain too much since it was basically free, I am excited about the project now.

Do you know where I can get full schematics? Free would be best, but I will buy one as long as I know it has the full schematics of everywhere. I see that there is a repair manual PDF free online, but I don't see much about full wiring yet(at least on my phone) I will most likely be keeping this bike for a long time, so I'll be replacing parts/making adjustments when due.
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post #12 of 25 Old Apr 4th, 2018, 10:09 am
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Re: Crashed K1200lt No power to fuel pump wires.

BMW offers a DVD with all schematics from 1993-2008 for all models PN 01 79 7 720 399 CD SLP 2.2 WIRING DIAGRAM - MJ 1993-2008 0.13 1 $49.86

It is very complete but not linked well for functions but it the best there is. I use mine often for other bikes as well.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #13 of 25 Old Apr 5th, 2018, 12:09 pm Thread Starter
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Thank you!! Do you happen to know if a speedo cluster from another bike will fit the LTs? Really wanting to put a smaller one on, but not sure if I can just wire one on and it work correctly.
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post #14 of 25 Old Apr 5th, 2018, 5:30 pm
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Re: Crashed K1200lt No power to fuel pump wires.

Possible but many BMW clusters are from bikes with a ZFE modules and/or CANBUS; the LT has neither so that may make it easier. But the speedo signal is generated from the rear ABS sensor through the ABS which I believe you have removed. So maybe a simple after market cluster for a chopper would be best with its own sensors inputs for speed and rpm.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #15 of 25 Old Apr 6th, 2018, 12:14 pm Thread Starter
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I started looking at those styles just in case that's what I would have to go with, and this confirms what I will need to do. Thanks.
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post #16 of 25 Old Jun 21st, 2018, 1:49 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Crashed K1200lt No power to fuel pump wires.

So its me again. Still working on this bike. getting rid of all the wiring I don't need, I am still trying to figure out how to bypass the backup controller. I purchased a clymer manual, and shows me so much more than I could ever find online, but it doesn't really say what the wires do when they get to the controller. it just shows them leaving the controller on the diagram. doesn't show in a way that wires go to the controller, then to whatever the wires do, its more like the controller is the source, so surely this doesn't mean hook everything I need to work together. anybody have a true schematic showing what the controller does inside?

thanks.
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post #17 of 25 Old Jun 22nd, 2018, 10:09 am
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Re: Crashed K1200lt No power to fuel pump wires.

What happens inside is routing of the starter signal (along with the two switches on the transmission) to a voltage controller that runs the starter motor at a slower speed for the reverse function and it sends a signal to the ECU to increase idle.

If you do not intend to ever use reverse again you can just cut it out all together. You will have to jump the starter signal wires in one of the barrel connectors left behind. Pin 9 with a Black/Yellow wire and pin 10 with a Brown/Green/Yellow wire. This assumes you still have the switch on the side of the transmission for F & R. Other wise you need to find the the starter button wire at the handle bar connection and route it to the relay box. The handle bar wire is also a Black/Yellow and the wire at the relay box is Brown/Green/White that goes to pin 3 on the starter relay.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #18 of 25 Old Jun 22nd, 2018, 1:51 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Crashed K1200lt No power to fuel pump wires.

Thank you! I plan on not using reverse again, since I won't be restoring the bike to original, there is no need for the extra weight it will bring. I still have the F & R switch(although idk where the knob went) I'm pretty surprised those are the only wires that need jumped to bypass the controller. Thanks! I hope I can make some real progress on getting this bike ride-able again.
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post #19 of 25 Old Jul 23rd, 2018, 7:55 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Crashed K1200lt No power to fuel pump wires.

I am very thankful for the help, But I don't know if I show it when I take a month to test out the help. Now you might be right on what you said I need to jump together for the starter to work, but I still don't have ignition, unless I hook up the other barrel connector. My wiring diagram only shows the wires coming from the controller, and where they go, which is helpful, but I don't know which ones actually need spliced together since I don't know how they route inside the controller.
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post #20 of 25 Old Jul 23rd, 2018, 10:11 pm
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Re: Crashed K1200lt No power to fuel pump wires.

OK the second barrel has the side stand switch go through it. I know the ground goes in on the Brown/white wire pin 4 but I have no idea where it comes out. It could be the ground for the engine electronics relay on the first barrel pin 8 Brown/Green wire. You could see if there is a ground on this pin when you put one in on pin 8 on the other barrel. The Alarm bypass provides the 12V to one side of the engine electronics relay and the ground comes from the reverser controller. That may get you going.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #21 of 25 Old Jul 24th, 2018, 1:09 pm
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Re: Crashed K1200lt No power to fuel pump wires.

subscribed, this seems like a very interesting thread
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post #22 of 25 Old Jul 24th, 2018, 7:37 pm
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Re: Crashed K1200lt No power to fuel pump wires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pandes View Post
subscribed, this seems like a very interesting thread
Especially after seeing the video in post #9. I want him to succeed because I want to build a K LT Bobber as well.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #23 of 25 Old Jul 25th, 2018, 10:05 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Crashed K1200lt No power to fuel pump wires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pandes View Post
subscribed, this seems like a very interesting thread
lol, if you like waiting, thats fine with me haha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
Especially after seeing the video in post #9. I want him to succeed because I want to build a K LT Bobber as well.
Thanks, main thing was getting it to run, which I have accomplished, I just wanted to removed the extra bulk of the reverse controller, but I believe I have discovered you absolutely need for the ignition to work. So for those of you that are curious on my findings, I go through what I have done to try and bypass the reverse controller.

First my book was confusing looking at the wire diagram, I didn't really understand how everything was working on it, and where power was coming from. so I started testing. unplugged the barrels, and tested every pin on barrel 1(7pin) and barrel 2(10pin) with the key off, naturally there was nothing. turning the key on on barrel 1. only pin 3 had 12v power, and that wire comes from ignition coils, which to me was the only one that made sense that it had power by looking at the diagram.

Barrel 2. I was expecting to only find 1 pin that had power, but that wasn't the case.
4 - 3v
5 - 12v
1 - 0v
6 - 12v
8 - 12v
7 - 12v
9 - 1v
2 - 0v
3 - 0v
10 - 3v

so now I am a bit more confused at this point, because by looking at the diagram, some of those go to a light, and to ground, by the diagram layout. what I didn't know, which is confusing, they don't show you enough info on just 1 page of the diagram. so like 1 of the pins goes to the instrument panel, and it has 12v to a light, but you can't look at it that way, because its actually coming from the panel, which to me is backwards. this is why I don't like BMWs wiring.

so, next is to plug just the 10pin barrel to the controller, and read the pins on the 7 pin barrel on the controller.
9- 0v
7 - 5v
1 - 0v
2 - 4v
6 - 12v
3 - 0v
4 - 12v
now I am a bit more excited because a couple of pins that didn't have power now have power, but I can't go cutting and splicing yet.
I want to see what pins are connected to each other on the reverse controller, which pins go straight through the 10pin to the 7pin, so I take the long process, with the help from my dad to make sure I don't goof up, because 2 heads is better than 1.
So I am going to try and simplify my writings, because they may make sense to me, but nobody else.

Left side is the 10 pin barrel and the right side is the 7 pin barrel. I find some resistance, and I believe we were on 10k on the meter, i've forgotten.
7 connects to 6 with 100k ohm of resistance
4 connects to 7 with no resistance.
6,2 connect to 4 with 1,300k ohm
1,3 connect to 1 with no resistance(grounds)
But they also connect to 2,5,6,9 on 7pin with resistance of 15, 25, 15, 4.8
Pin 3 on 7pin barrel is the only one that doesn't go to anything, it goes into the controller and thats it.

So to me this tells me that there is a possibility that there is a computer board inside the controller, and I did start to take it apart, and found its caked with with that gelatin thats founds in ECUs, other than the relay that connects to the battery.

So I decide to hook the wires that have no resistance together and see if I have ignition, which I don't. And since there are resistance on everything else I determined that there is a board inside, and you can't bypass it easily. So I have now determined I will own a motorcycle with a reverse.

Thanks for the help, I believe I should be done on here as far as I know, since I know how to make the bike run. now it will be cleaning up the wires I don't need(radio, heaters, speakers....) and building a frame for the tank, and gas tank, and making my brakes work. I will post my project when I finish it, or progress way more than where I am, but don't hold your breathe.

Thanks,
Luke.
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post #24 of 25 Old Jul 26th, 2018, 5:35 pm
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Re: Crashed K1200lt No power to fuel pump wires.

You really cannot evaluate the signals on the connectors when they are disconnected. Much better to look at the signal path. This should help.

You are getting closer. You CAN remove the RC altogether as here are the Pin Outs from the BMW documentation:

Barrel # 1

Pin 1 - (BR)Connects to the Reverse speed sensor on transmission only used during reverse
Pin 2 - (GE)Connects to the Reverse speed sensor on transmission only used during reverse
Pin 3 - (SWGN) Is signal Z from the coil, sent by ECU when engine is running not sure of use but suspect only during reverse
Pin 4 - (BRWS) Is connected to side stand switch and receives a ground - reverse interlock.
Pin 5 - No connection
Pin 6 - (GEVI)Connects to the Reverse speed sensor on transmission only used during reverse
Pin 7 - (BRBL)Connects to Gear position sender and gets a Ground when in Neutral (reverse interlock AND ) it sends
the ground out Pin 5 on Barrel #2 to the dash to ground and turn on the "N" light.
Pin 8 - No connection
Pin 9 - (BROR)Sends signal SR to ECU to rev up engine a few RPMs for reversing.


Barrel # 2

Pin 1 - (BR) Ground input to controller.
Pin 2 - (BRRT)Is tied to Pin 3 when the reverse micro switch (#1) is closed. Tells the RC that reverse is engaged.
Pin 3 - (BR) See Pin 2
Pin 4 - (BRVI) Puts out a ground when the bike is in neutral to light the dash light. See pin 7 barrel #1
Pin 5 - (BRGE) Puts out a ground to light the dash "R" when reverse is selected.
Pin 6 - (BRSW) Gets a ground from the clutch switch most likely only used as an interlock on reverse.
Pin 7 - (GNVI) Receives switched power (12V) for the RC
Pin 8 - (BRGR)Provides a ground to the Engine Electronics relay coil ( this coil gets the 12V from the alarm)
Pin 9 - (SWGE) Receives the starter button signal (50A) from the starter button (used by RC in reverse)
Pin 10 - (BRGNGE) Passes the starter button signal (50G) from pin 9 above to the reverse micro switch #2 which then passes the signal to the starter relay when reverse is de-selected.

Color Codes for wires:
BL=Blue OR=Orange Example GNVI is a Green wire with a Violet tracer
BR=Brown RT=Red
GE=Yellow SW=Black
GN=Green VI=Violet
GR=Grey WS=White


Based on that I see no reason you can't remove it.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #25 of 25 Old Jul 26th, 2018, 10:14 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Crashed K1200lt No power to fuel pump wires.

I appreciate you taking the time to post the info. I may try tackling it more, but I have wasted so much time on it, I may accept defeat and just leave the reverse on, I was just trying to reduce a little bit of weight, bulkiness, and get some money out of the controller.
I guess my thing is, I am assuming there is a board inside the controller, and you can't exactly bypass since there is resistance. I really dislike electrical anything, I am more on the mechanical side, you want me to tear a motor apart and repair it, I can do that no problem. but when it comes to electrical, and you got so many hidden circiut boards, and you can fry anything instantly without warning.
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