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post #1 of 34 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 8:22 pm Thread Starter
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oil filter paint flaking off

OK. I've heard a lot of concerns regarding paint flaking off the oil filter. How did this get started? Has anyone experienced, or know of anyone who's experienced this? I use K&N oil filters and have had no problems. Is this a rational fear? It seems to be a major concern whenever a discussion of oil filters is published and I'm not sure why. Granted, it's possible since it's a design where the filter is immersed in the oil...but how about some hard evidence that says "I"ve experienced paint flaking off my oil filter."

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post #2 of 34 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 8:24 pm
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have used K&N's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reid
OK. I've heard a lot of concerns stated regarding filter paint flaking off. How did this get stated? Has anyone or know of anyone who experienced this? I use K&N oil filters and have had no problems. Is this a rational fear? It seems to be a major concern whenever a discussion of oil filters is published and I'm not sure why. Granted, it's possible since it's an unusual design where the filter is immersed in the oil...but how about some hard evidence that says "I"ve experienced paint flaking off my oil filter."

No flaking here exept for the rider.

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post #3 of 34 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 8:29 pm Thread Starter
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Lots of us rank in that category!!!!

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post #4 of 34 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 8:36 pm
 
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I hear allot of talk about it, but never heard of an engine failing dew to paint from the filter.
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post #5 of 34 Old Dec 12th, 2006, 4:54 am
 
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I have no experience in the area as I always use OE BMW. But one person here pointed out that even if it did flake paint the filter itself would catch it before it got to any of the bearings. It would get pulled throught the pump but doubt that would cause any harm.
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post #6 of 34 Old Dec 12th, 2006, 12:19 pm
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I'm curious, and have asked in another thread, but the oil in the pan - where the flakes would come off the filter - doesn't it go *through* the filter before it gets to the engine?

So, even if there were paint flakes, they'd be caught in the filter?

Isn't that what the filter is in there for?

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post #7 of 34 Old Dec 12th, 2006, 12:30 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotter
I'm curious, and have asked in another thread, but the oil in the pan - where the flakes would come off the filter - doesn't it go *through* the filter before it gets to the engine?

So, even if there were paint flakes, they'd be caught in the filter?

Isn't that what the filter is in there for?
The strainer on the pump intake would catch any larger particles, smaller ones would be caught by the filter, but I would not want these going through the pump, where they could possibly cause damage to the pump gears and sliding surfaces. Also, if a particle gets caught in the pump's relief valve, causing it to stick or leak, oil pressure could be affected.

It is all conjecture though, unless anyone has concrete evidence that paint flaking actually has caused a problem.

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post #8 of 34 Old Dec 12th, 2006, 12:42 pm
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Why take the chance?

Seems penny wise and pound foolish.

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post #9 of 34 Old Dec 12th, 2006, 1:31 pm
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Well, so does ride'n a motorcycle <g>

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post #10 of 34 Old Dec 12th, 2006, 7:01 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
.......Also, if a particle gets caught in the pump's relief valve, causing it to stick or leak, oil pressure could be affected.
I didn't think about that one!!! A very real possibility if it did flake. No matter to me as I'm with you on the OEM filters.
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post #11 of 34 Old Dec 12th, 2006, 7:20 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS6654
I didn't think about that one!!! A very real possibility if it did flake. No matter to me as I'm with you on the OEM filters.
I had not thought about it before myself. However, being a design engineer for the past (mumble, mumble ) years, and being involved in many FMEA sessions (Failure Mode and Effect Analysis) I have become pretty adept at thinking things through from beginning to end in detail. So, I just followed the oil path through the system in my mind, and knowing how oil pumps are constructed and operate it was pretty evident that that is where the greatest possibility of problems existed.

I never have worried about it myself, and as many others here feel there is very little reason to use other than OEM in this application. It is such a miniscule amount in the overall operational cost that it was not worth anything to me to try and find a replacement.

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post #12 of 34 Old Dec 13th, 2006, 5:19 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
It is such a miniscule amount in the overall operational cost that it was not worth anything to me to try and find a replacement.
David,
I couldn't agree more. I'm quite confident that BMW would not spec an inferior filter for ther bikes. Running around looking for a different filter, and a wrench that fits it, but will also fit in the case, seems like madness to me.

Last edited by RS6654; Dec 13th, 2006 at 5:20 am. Reason: spelling
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post #13 of 34 Old Dec 13th, 2006, 8:34 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS6654
I have no experience in the area as I always use OE BMW. But one person here pointed out that even if it did flake paint the filter itself would catch it before it got to any of the bearings. It would get pulled throught the pump but doubt that would cause any harm.
Look carefully at the BMW filter. Sort of silver/grey with just a hint of shine??

Looks a lot like clear coat (as in paint) to me. I have talked to BMW techs with lots of experience working on engines and none have seen any reason to believe the paint issue is other than another "wives tale". Those techs used the Bosh on their own bikes since it is more reasonably priced or in some cases the Amsoil extended drain filters which, here at least, are a whole dollar cheaper than the BMW filter, but supposedly will filter the oil for a longer period of time.

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post #14 of 34 Old Dec 13th, 2006, 9:16 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwrubbercow
Look carefully at the BMW filter. Sort of silver/grey with just a hint of shine??

Looks a lot like clear coat (as in paint) to me.
To me it looks like dye as it doesn't have a smooth "skin" to it.

It's a mute point to me anyway. I see no reason at all to use anything but OE filters and wouldn't use anything else even if it weren't painted.

A dollar or two more than "other" brands, but not enough to have to cut back on Guinness .
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post #15 of 34 Old Dec 13th, 2006, 9:31 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reid
OK. I've heard a lot of concerns regarding paint flaking off the oil filter. How did this get started? Has anyone experienced, or know of anyone who's experienced this? I use K&N oil filters and have had no problems. Is this a rational fear? It seems to be a major concern whenever a discussion of oil filters is published and I'm not sure why. Granted, it's possible since it's a design where the filter is immersed in the oil...but how about some hard evidence that says "I"ve experienced paint flaking off my oil filter."
On my cars, truck, & boat, YES I have! I have a new filter in the box with flaking at the gasket side rolled metal bead.
If every respondent said "No Problem" will they be believed?
If you wrench the filter and scratch the flats?
I've seen debris force holes in the pump screen & transmision filters........
I'll pass on paint, but may consider chrome.

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post #16 of 34 Old Dec 17th, 2006, 9:36 pm
 
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I was able to scratch the paint off the inside of the fully painted oil filter cover. The paint had also flaked off the inside of the oil filter cover near one of the three holes, but outside of the o-ring. I guess BMW should recall all of their motorcycles. Paint remained intact on the 12,000 mile AMSOIL filter that was used from May to December in central Texas this year.
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post #17 of 34 Old Dec 18th, 2006, 6:53 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
I had not thought about it before myself. However, being a design engineer for the past (mumble, mumble ) years, and being involved in many FMEA sessions (Failure Mode and Effect Analysis) I have become pretty adept at thinking things through from beginning to end in detail. So, I just followed the oil path through the system in my mind, and knowing how oil pumps are constructed and operate it was pretty evident that that is where the greatest possibility of problems existed.

I never have worried about it myself, and as many others here feel there is very little reason to use other than OEM in this application. It is such a miniscule amount in the overall operational cost that it was not worth anything to me to try and find a replacement.
The OEM BMW filter has a separate "filter" (a fine mesh screen) to filter the oil when the bypass valve opens. Amsoil or any other substitute filter does not have this feature. I've cut open many oil filters (another Engineer!!!)
and based on my assessment - I'm sticking with the BMW at this point. (I do use Amsoil EaO filters on my other vehicles)
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post #18 of 34 Old Dec 18th, 2006, 9:06 pm
 
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I just cut open the AMSOIL EAOM 122 K1200LT oil filter and it has the same separate "filter" (fine mesh screen) that was photographed. AMSOIL tends to have its EAO filters made at the same plant that the OEM filters are made, but use the better exclusive nanofiber filtration media, upgraded silicone parts and better gasket materials. From the AMSOIL website:

"Ea Motorcycle Oil Filters
Ea Motorcycle Oil Filters feature a specially constructed silicone anti-drainback valve and a nitrile sealing gasket to go along with the full-synthetic Ea nanofiber media. The anti-drainback valve provides excellent protection during startup and remains flexible in all temperatures, and the nitrile sealing gasket resists chemical breakdown, providing excellent durability and ensuring long filter life. AMSOIL Ea Motorcycle Oil Filters are fluted for easy removal from the motorcycle and are available in a chrome-plated alternative to the normal black filters.

Superior Filtration
The unique construction and full-synthetic media of AMSOIL Ea Motorcycle Oil Filters allow them to provide unmatched performance in motorcycles and other power sports equipment. EaOM Filters last longer, stop smaller dirt particles and offer less restriction than other filters. Ea Motorcycle Oil Filters provide filtering efficiency of 98.7 percent at 15 microns, outperforming the best cellulose/synthetic blend media on the market. For maximum engine protection, AMSOIL recommends changing the EaOM every time you change oil."

This filter seems to be better than any other on the market and warrantied for twice as long. I run them and the oil 12,000 miles and have done so for the last 89,000 miles. Seems like the way to go to me.
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post #19 of 34 Old Dec 18th, 2006, 9:13 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimVipond
I just cut open the AMSOIL EAOM 122 K1200LT oil filter and it has the same separate "filter" (fine mesh screen) that was photographed. AMSOIL tends to have its EAO filters made at the same plant that the OEM filters are made, but use the better exclusive nanofiber filtration media, upgraded silicone parts and better gasket materials.
I stand corrected!!!! I had cut other EaO filters open (for cars) and they did not have the fine mesh screen. Can you post some pics of the cut open filter?

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post #20 of 34 Old Dec 18th, 2006, 9:36 pm
 
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I'll wait till daylight, see if my wife can find her digital camera and the batteries are fresh, then get my 17 year old to post them here. I've seen diagrams of the EaO car filters, and it didn't show the extra screen. But I remember looking down into the motorcycle filter and it had the same black crossed endcap and remembered that AMSOIL tends to have their filters made at the same factory that makes them for the vehicle manufacturers so figured it was a similar configuration. Took a long time with a hacksaw! I think they make the filter cans thicker too! And that diamond hard black paint wouldn't flake away, so that probably made it more difficult!

Update: My wife just photographed it. Maybe we'll get it out tonight. Not as pretty as your photograph. My filter has 12,000 miles on it.

Update: The pictures turned out blurry, probably because it is dark out and the lense is open for a long time and we jiggled. Try again tomorrow.

Last edited by TimVipond; Dec 18th, 2006 at 9:46 pm.
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post #21 of 34 Old Dec 19th, 2006, 5:26 pm
 
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Here is the photograph of the cut open AMSOIL EaOM122 oil filter. Note the filter screen in the middle. In use for 12,000 miles.


http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/attachme...tid=8817&stc=1
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post #22 of 34 Old Dec 19th, 2006, 6:15 pm
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Looks VERY similar to the BMW filter!!!!! I think I'll get some and cut one open to compare side by side.

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post #23 of 34 Old Dec 19th, 2006, 7:04 pm
 
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Cool. I'd like to see that. If you have a microscope available, take a look at the filtration media. The AMSOIL fibers are supposed to be 100 times smaller than the others. Here is one photo comparison. https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulle...75_rev7_06.pdf .
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post #24 of 34 Old Dec 20th, 2006, 6:28 am
 
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Wink paint flaking off filter?

Since we have a tendency to "overanalyse everything" why don't one of you guys who are worrying about this problem take a painted filter, put it in an old pot of used oil and heat it with a propane stove until the paint melts off, then measure the temperature........OR.......DON"T USE PAINTED FILTERS!!!
DUH! Ha! Ha! Ron Ray
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post #25 of 34 Old Dec 20th, 2006, 7:40 am
 
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Myth Busters?

Or just use them for millions of miles and see if it ever happens. Oops...weve collectively done that. Or see if any of the thousands of BMW riders ever had a painted filter problem. Ooops....done that too. No problems. Or just use filters that are warrantied for parts and labor should the paint come off and cause a problem. Oops, done that too. Or notice the paint scratches off easier from the inside of the oil pan cover that it does from a 12,000 mile filter. Oops... done that too. And it seems the "unpainted" filters also have a coating.

The boiling oil idea sounds good, but will leave that to the Myth Busters team. They like to blow stuff up. Be sure to keep the temps under 350F, as it could happen.

Could it be that filters are painted/clear coated/chromed to protect against rust while on the shelf, or in the bike? Take a look at the rust photos and graphs on page 20 and 21 in this report https://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf .

Last edited by TimVipond; Dec 20th, 2006 at 7:59 am.
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post #26 of 34 Old Dec 20th, 2006, 8:02 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimVipond
Or just use them for millions of miles and see if it ever happens. Oops...weve collectively done that. Or see if any of the thousands of BMW riders ever had a painted filter problem. Ooops....done that too. No problems. Or just use filters that are warrantied for parts and labor should the paint come off and cause a problem. Oops, done that too. Or notice the paint scratches off easier from the inside of the oil pan cover that it does from a 12,000 mile filter. Oops... done that too. And it seems the "unpainted" filters also have a coating.

The boiling oil idea sounds good, but will leave that to the Myth Busters team. They like to blow stuff up. Be sure to keep the temps under 350F, as it could happen.

Could it be that filters are painted/clear coated/chromed to protect against rust while on the shelf, or in the bike? Take a look at the rust photos and graphs on page 20 and 21 in this report https://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf .
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post #27 of 34 Old Dec 20th, 2006, 8:29 am
 
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Painted for rust-resistance

Oil Filters
Motorcraft® oil filter.
Motorcraft® oil filter.
Engineered specifically for Ford, Lincoln and Mercury vehicles, each Motorcraft® oil filter, including the popular Motorcraft® FL-1A, uses as many as 12 high-quality components. Construction features include:
- Steel Cases
"Ironed" for a precise fit, fluted to ease removal and painted for rust-resistance.
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post #28 of 34 Old Dec 21st, 2006, 9:37 am
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I thought the Amsoil filter part number was: EaOM122C?

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post #29 of 34 Old Dec 21st, 2006, 9:54 am
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Quote:
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I thought the Amsoil filter part number was: EaOM122C?
The last (C) = chrome without the (C) = painted
EaOM122 C

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post #30 of 34 Old Dec 21st, 2006, 10:51 am
 
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When an engine gets hot enough to melt paint off a filter there is something seriously wrong with the engine.
That is not a reason to not buy an oil filter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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post #31 of 34 Old Dec 22nd, 2006, 1:21 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ltcanup
When an engine gets hot enough to melt paint off a filter there is something seriously wrong with the engine.
That is not a reason to not buy an oil filter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No one has ever said the paint would MELT off, but the possibility of paint flaking off has been the stated issue. Being constantly submerged in oil, often hot, does raise the possibility that if the paint is not adhered properly, due to improper surface treatment/cleaning prior to painting, that oil could slowly penetrate the interface and cause flaking.

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post #32 of 34 Old Dec 22nd, 2006, 8:44 pm
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check and be sure

Paint flaking off could be caused by overheating oil!!! I would use a quality temp. gauge and check to be sure. A plugged or blocked oil cooler could be very expensive.
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post #33 of 34 Old Dec 22nd, 2006, 9:03 pm
 
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Are any K1200LT filters not painted/clear coated/chromed?

Has anyone confirmed that there is an oil filter for a K1200LT that is not painted/clear coated/chromed? The manufacturers seem to do this to protect against rust. Has anyone ever heard of a painted/clear coated/chromed filter causing any problems?
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post #34 of 34 Old Dec 22nd, 2006, 10:07 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimVipond
Has anyone confirmed that there is an oil filter for a K1200LT that is not painted/clear coated/chromed? The manufacturers seem to do this to protect against rust. Has anyone ever heard of a painted/clear coated/chromed filter causing any problems?
I think it just may be a wive's tale. Sure, it COULD happen, but I have never heard of it being a documented real life failure.

Still, I just used BMW filters anyway, never saw any reason to do otherwise.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

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