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post #1 of 42 Old Dec 10th, 2006, 10:20 pm Thread Starter
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Unhappy Trouble keeping up

I went on the Toys for Tots toy run in Miami today and had a rude awakening on the way there. My friends were on BMWs as well, but an R1200RT and an 07 K1200GT, respectively. We left our meeting place and I held up the rear, as usual. Once we were on the expressway (freeway for Californians) the R seemed to leap ahead and the GT with 2 up, one of whom weighs 100 pounds more than I do (and I'm not thin), leaped even further. It was all I could do to crank the throttle wide open just to catch up. Now, I know the GT has much more hp than the LT, and both the R and GT are lighter, but come on. I kept up and maintained the pace, but it took effort. I was waiting for afterburner and I'm still waiting. I'm at a little over 12000 miles and due for that service. I hoping things will improve after a new set of spark plugs and clean air filter. They just have to. Sigh... I'm well aware that if I want to race around like I was on a K1200S, I should GET one, but today was a bit disappointing and as a result, I think my testosterone level is a couple of notches lower.

Joe
05 Ocean Blue LT "Mein Byk"
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post #2 of 42 Old Dec 10th, 2006, 11:02 pm
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Wink

Joe, you need to keep her in the 4500-7000 rpm range to make her (and you) happy! Less than that and you are just cruising, and your handling will be less than stellar.
She is a big bike and you need to ride her "hard" to get the most out of it. She is no GT, so don't expect that kind of performance, but she is no slouch either. I can keep up with my buddies and their Sport Touring bikes with no difficulty.
By the same token... be sure to ride your ride. Don't take chances just to keep up with other riders. If you are a riding group, your buddies should wait for you at regular intervals. Ideally there should be a lead and a sweeper, preferably both with bike to bike radios. if this is still too fast for you, pick another riding group whose speed you will be comfortable with.
Riding should be fun and not stressful.
So... have fun and ride safe!!!

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post #3 of 42 Old Dec 10th, 2006, 11:52 pm
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I know what you mean. The LT has enough power for its intended purpose, but most bikes have too much power. I can still play pretty hard, but I feel like I'm really wringing the bike out to do so. It's one of the main reasons I want to upgrade to a GT.

And +1 to what Gilles said. Ride your own ride, at your own pace. You can always regroup later.

Ken
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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #4 of 42 Old Dec 10th, 2006, 11:56 pm
 
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"The LT has enough power for its intended purpose, but most bikes have too much power."


Ken...thanks for the chuckle.
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post #5 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 4:01 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neodoc
Sigh... I'm well aware that if I want to race around like I was on a K1200S, I should GET one, but today was a bit disappointing and as a result, I think my testosterone level is a couple of notches lower.
I feel your pain. I was thoroughly spanked by the HDDC boy's on 2 GS' and a K1200R in the twisties when I went to visiting. It won't happen again!



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post #6 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 4:29 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
"The LT has enough power for its intended purpose, but most bikes have too much power."

Ken...thanks for the chuckle.
I didn't say it was a bad thing, but who really needs 150+ HP in a two-wheeled street vehicle? Sure I'm gonna enjoy it just like you do, but you gotta admit that it isn't strictly necessary.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
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'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #7 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 5:10 am
 
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I gave up on group rides as I wasn't having any fun. It wasn't that I couldn't keep up as I was riding with a primarily Harley group. My complaints were, noise, riding too close, and their giving me heat because I couldn't just jump on or off the bike and go. They would swing a leg over, fire it up and then make stupid impatient hand gestures while I was getting my jacket, helmet and gloves on. Or jump off and go into whatever eatery we were going to that Wednesday while I was removing and securing my gear. I'm a very happy solo rider now.
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post #8 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 5:21 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neodoc
I went on the Toys for Tots toy run in Miami today and had a rude awakening on the way there. My friends were on BMWs as well, but an R1200RT and an 07 K1200GT, respectively. We left our meeting place and I held up the rear, as usual. Once we were on the expressway (freeway for Californians) the R seemed to leap ahead and the GT with 2 up, one of whom weighs 100 pounds more than I do (and I'm not thin), leaped even further. It was all I could do to crank the throttle wide open just to catch up. Now, I know the GT has much more hp than the LT, and both the R and GT are lighter, but come on. I kept up and maintained the pace, but it took effort. I was waiting for afterburner and I'm still waiting. I'm at a little over 12000 miles and due for that service. I hoping things will improve after a new set of spark plugs and clean air filter. They just have to. Sigh... I'm well aware that if I want to race around like I was on a K1200S, I should GET one, but today was a bit disappointing and as a result, I think my testosterone level is a couple of notches lower.

Joe,
So what is that you think you have something to prove by going faster?

Think about it...
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post #9 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 5:39 am
 
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Originally Posted by zippy_gg
Joe, you need to keep her in the 4500-7000 rpm range to make her (and you) happy!
Wow. I must be a real fuddy duddy. I've never seen 4,000 rpm on mine.
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post #10 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 6:24 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunBass
Wow. I must be a real fuddy duddy. I've never seen 4,000 rpm on mine.
Well, then you are missing out on the best part of the bike! At about 6000 rpm the damn thing sounds like a formula 1 car. Things don't start to come alive until at least 5000 rpm on the LT motor. Don't be afraid, you won't hurt anything by running the motor that hard.

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post #11 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 6:38 am
 
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Originally Posted by hawg
Joe,
So what is that you think you have something to prove by going faster?

Think about it...
Maybe Joe's still younger than you are at heart? Or...just different. Does that make him "wrong"? You sold your LT for a car that probably can't do 0-60 in less than 12 seconds. I wouldn't expect you and Joe to be on the same page at all. Think about it...


Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunBass
Wow. I must be a real fuddy duddy. I've never seen 4,000 rpm on mine.
Not only are you missing out, but I have to believe that your LT's motor weeps itself to sleep every night. 6K to redline, the LT is pure magic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWphreak
Well, then you are missing out on the best part of the bike! At about 6000 rpm the damn thing sounds like a formula 1 car. Things don't start to come alive until at least 5000 rpm on the LT motor. Don't be afraid, you won't hurt anything by running the motor that hard.
And I agree completely, as per my reply above. But just remember this. Just because an LT sounds like it's going fast, doesn't mean that it IS fast. After all, "fast" is a relative term. And at the end of the day, an LT is just simply not capable of keeping up with a GS or GT . . . all riders being of comparable skill level. If you think the LT sounds like an F1 car at 6K, you should hear and feel a GT between 6 and 10K RPMs! I call it my "hornet's nest on crack"!
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post #12 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 6:39 am
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That's why I'm looking at a 2nd bike to complement the LT. The LT does what it is supposed to do very well and IMHO does better than one should expect out of a large touring bike in the twisties. But, it isn't exactly flickable in the quick turns and on those roads with short straight sections between quick turns, I get absolutely blown away because I can't generate the acceleration out of the turn even running in the 6500-7000 range. Still, I love the LT, and my wife would be very unhappy if I even thought about replacing it, so I'm thinking about the best 2nd bike to go with an LT. If money were no object, it would probably be the Sprint ST or K12S, but since it is, I'm looking at older VFRs or a wide variety of nakeds. Whatever, I enjoy the LT every day I ride it, so I'm content.

Joel
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post #13 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 8:00 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS6654
I gave up on group rides as I wasn't having any fun. It wasn't that I couldn't keep up as I was riding with a primarily Harley group. My complaints were, noise, riding too close, and their giving me heat because I couldn't just jump on or off the bike and go. They would swing a leg over, fire it up and then make stupid impatient hand gestures while I was getting my jacket, helmet and gloves on. Or jump off and go into whatever eatery we were going to that Wednesday while I was removing and securing my gear. I'm a very happy solo rider now.
Hey Ralph, you don't necessairly need to give up on group riding, you just need to pick the right people to do it with!

Lynn Keen
North East Florida
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'99 Canyon Red RETIRED AT 93,000 MI
'05 GRAPHITE METALLIC retired at 87,000 MI
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'11 R1200RT currently being enjoyed

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post #14 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 8:27 am
 
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Joel, consider trading your in your 2002 for a 2005 or newer. The extra 18 horsepower, torque and better handling might be the little extra you are looking for. It did for me. Also if you are not already, try some good synthetic lubricants. Most synthetic oil company's claim and independent testing (such as http://royalpurple.com/video/video.html ) show an extra 1-2% or more increase in power.
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post #15 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 8:47 am
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Joe: If you want to beat them there ride in front. Let them figure out what you are going to do. When you ride in back and they decide to play you are already 2 or 3 seconds behind in reaction time. So ride in front and go for it they will catch you but they have to work at it.

DON
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post #16 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 9:59 am
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That's why I stopped ridding in the Tots for Tots parade. I am surrounded by bikers I do not know and it is a leave the starting point, full throttle, BRAKE and ride the clutch, full throttle for 1/2 mile, BRAKE and stop, inch forward stop, full throttle...
The whole time there is a new ridder next to me in the same lane sipping on a bud lite and trying to wave at all the folks who came out to see us.

Just do what you do and forget about trying to keep up with someone else.

"BONES" <///><
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post #17 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 10:26 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
I feel your pain. I was thoroughly spanked by the HDDC boy's on 2 GS' and a K1200R in the twisties when I went to visiting. It won't happen again!
Hi Grif!, Don't count on it - Raffy and I now have S's

John & Cathy
Northern CA
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post #18 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 10:33 am
 
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Originally Posted by amarider
Hi Grif!, Don't count on it - Raffy and I now have S's
A GT can't keep up with an 'S'? Really? Hhmmn... Thanks for the tip.
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post #19 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 10:52 am
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Now that's not what I said Skid Mark.

But I'm sure you could blow away an S with the BMW Tricycle, I bow to the Best Speeder I know.......
If you slow down enough on your visit to Nor Cal in the spring I'll buy you a Guinness in Cambria.

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post #20 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 11:04 am
 
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And I'll drink it too.
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post #21 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 11:16 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn_Keen
Hey Ralph, you don't necessairly need to give up on group riding, you just need to pick the right people to do it with!
Thanks Lynn, I really haven't given up totally. My LT was my first motorcycle and my group riding "initiation" was with my neighbors which were either Harley riders or the Harley type with bare heads and patch clad vests. A nice enough bunch of guys but I just didn't fit in.

I blundred into Jinks and Tom (TMGS) at our local Denny's a bit after I got the bike. Riding with them to Daytona was a blast. As a result of that chance encounter we ended up going to the Matanzas RTE with Jinks and where I met Dave Dragon and the rest of that crowd and had a blast. I really have no problem doing stuff like that again.

We've moved twice since we got the bike in early '04. This month my wife is helping open her 3rd new Target store in as many years so we haven't had a lot of time to ride. This one will be her last. When things get settled down in late spring we're going to try to start riding more and maybe hook up with the LT crowd again.
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post #22 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 11:50 am Thread Starter
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Thanks to all who commented. I won't quote everyone's reponses, but I will try to comment on several that struck nerves.

I must say in all fairness that my friends weren't trying to lose me. In fact, we all look out for each other and we stay together when riding. It was just the acceleration when merging into traffic that left me behind. We maintained 80-90 mph the whole way and there was no problem for me. I am very comfortable at those speeds, and I'm smart enough to know when to slow it down for safety, not to mention LEO's. No weaving in between cars a la crotch rocket riders, or as I like to call them "rocket scientists."

As far as having too much power, I disagree that our LT could ever have too much power. If one has more power, that engine doesn't have to struggle and rev to the stratosphere to get the job done. IOW, less drama. I personally like hp and try to use it judiciously. Having driven AMG Mercedes on the Homestead Speedway many times, I can appreciate the difference more hp can make on the same type of vehicle. For instance, a regular SL500 is a wonderful toy; an SL 65 AMG with twin turbo V-12 is a blast! One doesn't have to use all 600 hp, but it's great to know it's there. I have a CL 63 (500-plus hp) on order to satisfy that desire.

Finally, I truly don't have anything to prove to myself or anyone else. Going fast or reaching a certain level of g-force on acceleration is a pleasant experience for me, as is the challenge of reigning in that power and controlling it, so that it is artful, graceful and exciting without the drama. That's what I try to do on the track and that's what I like to experience on the bike on a personal level. Thanks again for all your comments.

And, by the way, met a pretty new nurse at work today, who rides! Testosterone level back to normal.
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Joe
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post #23 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 11:57 am
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too much power

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
I didn't say it was a bad thing, but who really needs 150+ HP in a two-wheeled street vehicle? Sure I'm gonna enjoy it just like you do, but you gotta admit that it isn't strictly necessary.

You probably agree with these guys

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post #24 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 1:36 pm
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Talking

Hey Joe, I think your statement should read as below... I just inverted your last 2 paragraphs and removed a couple of words here and there, that's all...!
Quote:
Originally Posted by neodoc
And, by the way, met a pretty new nurse at work today, who rides! Testosterone level back to normal. I truly don't have anything to prove to myself or anyone else. Going fast or reaching a certain level of g-force on acceleration is a pleasant experience for me, as is the challenge of reigning in that power and controlling it, so that it is artful, graceful and exciting without the drama. That's what I try to do and that's what I like to experience on a personal level.

Gilles & Kathy
BMWMOA# 154719
IBA# 71594
2011 Ostra Gray RT
06 Mercedes-Benz E350 Estate (parts and people hauler)
2012 BMW X3 (parts and people hauler)
86 Porsche 911 Cabriolet (my "new" baby)



For her I climbed the highest mountain!
For her I swam across the deepest ocean!
For her I walked through the largest desert!
And then she left me... She said I was never home!!!


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post #25 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 1:57 pm
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We've seen the car, but I'm still waiting for a pic of the nurse.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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post #26 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 2:14 pm
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Yep, that's me, safety-nazi to the core. Ask anyone who has ridden with me. I never go over the posted speed limit, and always obey all traffic signs, warnings, and regulations to the letter. After all, the bureaucrats know what's best for me, and I'm sure they have put all this in place to protect me from myself.

Why, I think all bikes should have governors limiting max speed to 65 mph. And bikes over 600 lbs should all have three wheels to stop this D.A. problem I keep hearing about. And I think the rear ends would last much longer if we all kept to the speed limits, plus we'd save fuel and so wouldn't need to go to war for oil.

"What's that? Time for more medication already? OK, be right there."

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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post #27 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 2:19 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amarider
Hi Grif!, Don't count on it - Raffy and I now have S's
In my best Mr. Bill voice, "OH NOOOOOOOO"



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post #28 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 2:40 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
In my best Mr. Bill voice, "OH NOOOOOOOO"
"Hey Mr. Bill, wanna learn to ride a motorcycle? Just follow these guys. It'll be swell."

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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post #29 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 6:19 pm
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Originally Posted by ldrider
You probably agree with these guys

Is this site for real? What a bunch of idiots.

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post #30 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 6:46 pm
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Quote:
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"Hey Mr. Bill, wanna learn to ride a motorcycle? Just follow these guys. It'll be swell."
Now thats funny right there!

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post #31 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 6:47 pm
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any time you ride/drive in the back of a group, if you don't stay after it and lag up a little bit , you will play catch up for a long while.
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post #32 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 6:59 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunBass
Wow. I must be a real fuddy duddy. I've never seen 4,000 rpm on mine.
It's like owning a second bike after 5000 rpms. Take it out, whack the throttle open and run it up to 7500 rpms, then play between 5500 and 750 for a while. You'll see what I mean.

David Taylor
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post #33 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 8:19 pm
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Keeping up

Hi Joe,

Donít despair, it might simply be a question of technique. The LT has more then enough juice to keep up with the bikes you mentioned. First, the advice to ďride your own rideĒ canít be overstated. Many riders who get into trouble are riding over their heads with other riders who might be riding over their heads also. Second, like the others have said, keep the bike in the 4K and above rev range. Last summer a group of my friends, all of whom can ride better than I can, spent several days at Deals Gap (The Dragon). At first, I had the same problem, I couldnít keep up. Then I got some advice- go in slow ( in control) and come out fast. Keep the bike in second gear, an LT can do 80 plus in second before you have to shift it. After some practice and learning when to power out of the turns, keeping up was not a problem. On the straight roads, just keep the revs up. But most important, ride your own ride. If you friends get impatient, ride with someone else. A faster bike is not the answer.

Smith
í05 Dark Graphite
Greensboro, NC
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post #34 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 8:38 pm
 
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Originally Posted by Smith
Donít despair, it might simply be a question of technique. The LT has more then enough juice to keep up with the bikes you mentioned.
Really? So the added 200 pounds and 35 less HP isn't a factor? What about the decreased lean-angle the LT suffers over most smaller bikes? Not a factor either?

I sure would love to ride the Dragon with you. Or better yet, the Cherohala Skyway. A GS, VStrom, LT, and an FJR couldn't keep up with my GT. Good luck on an LT.
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post #35 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 10:12 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldrider
You probably agree with these guys
I poked around their site for a while. Scary stuff indeed. But they have a feedback page, so I sent them the following note:

"I just wanted to say thanks for the "Arrest these people" links page. There are some great sites there."

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
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'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
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post #36 of 42 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 10:34 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunBass
Wow. I must be a real fuddy duddy. I've never seen 4,000 rpm on mine.
Wow, maybe you are
I rarely see less than 5K when I'm riding the twisties.

Regarding the LT not keeping up. You can push it, but if you can afford a second bike, why bother trying?

Regards,
John
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post #37 of 42 Old Dec 12th, 2006, 4:16 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldrider
You probably agree with these guys

Uhhhh Are these people for real? Limiting riding to daylight hours? National 55 mph speed limit for all two wheeled vehicles? No riding in rain or on wet roads? A manditory HP to weight ratio? Governors with a top speed of 75? Manditory anti-lock brakes?

Our demands
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post #38 of 42 Old Dec 12th, 2006, 11:45 am
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Another hook set

Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunBass
Uhhhh Are these people for real? Limiting riding to daylight hours? National 55 mph speed limit for all two wheeled vehicles? No riding in rain or on wet roads? A manditory HP to weight ratio? Governors with a top speed of 75? Manditory anti-lock brakes?

Our demands

No, that was a 2002 April 1st site put up by the LDRider Admin crew.
(That's why I included in the post)

Joe
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post #39 of 42 Old Dec 12th, 2006, 5:24 pm
 
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Ok. I didn't think it was serious, but these days, you never know. Big Nannie is worse than big brother.
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post #40 of 42 Old Dec 13th, 2006, 10:03 am
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I blundred into Jinks and Tom (TMGS) at our local Denny's a bit after I got the bike.
I'm sorry.

On His Ride,
Steve
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'02 LTE - Red-blooded Dragonfly
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Have you
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bmwlt.com lately????



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post #41 of 42 Old Dec 13th, 2006, 10:12 am
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go look at the new ducati 1098 as a second rocket
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post #42 of 42 Old Dec 13th, 2006, 10:15 am
 
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go look at the new ducati 1098 as a second rocket
Thanks! I was wondering what I should do with the extra $15K I had just lying around.
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