Broke down - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 37 Old Jul 26th, 2017, 7:19 pm Thread Starter
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Broke down

Well I am broke down. Thought it was the engine but was coming from the rear end. Lurching and a knocking sound. Shaking the back tire seemed like some play back and forth not much but could it be the bearings? Checked the final drive oil and its full. Thoughts?


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post #2 of 37 Old Jul 26th, 2017, 7:27 pm
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Re: Broke down

from your description it is the final drive bearing, any oil on the wheel?, put it on centre stand to check the rear wheel for movement there should be no movement, you can also run it in gear while its up there and have a listen. The other thing possible is the drive shaft insulator has failed, sorry to hear of you misfortune hopefully doesn't spoil a trip.

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post #3 of 37 Old Jul 26th, 2017, 7:45 pm
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Re: Broke down

Hey;

Mine did this when the u joint blew apart. if you are going to do the work yourself, you will have to pull the FD anyways. if the u joint is the issue you will know immediately. much much cheaper and easy to install compared to the FD. What is the mileage you have on her now?

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post #4 of 37 Old Jul 26th, 2017, 8:05 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Broke down

It's a 1999 K1200LT with 130,000kms. It was making a racket back there. At first thought it was the engine because it was almost like a sound like pistons in a dry engine. I am 3 hours drive from home.


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post #5 of 37 Old Jul 27th, 2017, 12:11 am
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Re: Broke down

The chances are high that the previous statements on FD bearing failure or drive shaft failure are correct. Good luck in getting it home. Hopefully you or someone you know has a trailer so you don't do more damage in trying to ride it further without knowing what needs attention. If you do have play in the rear wheel, the bearing is likely failed. time to place a PM to Saddleman once you get it home.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #6 of 37 Old Jul 27th, 2017, 6:13 am
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Re: Broke down

Sorry for your troubles.
If you are anywhere near chicago you are welcome to use my garage.
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post #7 of 37 Old Jul 27th, 2017, 6:39 am Thread Starter
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Re: Broke down

Stayed in a hotel got the bike in the parking lot. Won't be driving it. Will be figuring out a plan today. Maybe a uhaul. There are no leaks anywhere around the back drive shaft or boot or anywhere. I would like to drain the FD oil and see if any metal junk. This all sounds very expensive and beyond my basic wrenching capabilities. I got it to a bike shop last night and he wouldn't touch it.


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post #8 of 37 Old Jul 27th, 2017, 8:27 am
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Re: Broke down

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Originally Posted by Maritimer View Post
Stayed in a hotel got the bike in the parking lot. Won't be driving it. Will be figuring out a plan today. Maybe a uhaul. There are no leaks anywhere around the back drive shaft or boot or anywhere. I would like to drain the FD oil and see if any metal junk. This all sounds very expensive and beyond my basic wrenching capabilities. I got it to a bike shop last night and he wouldn't touch it.


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Can you tell us what area you are currently in? there may be someone close enough to help.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #9 of 37 Old Jul 27th, 2017, 8:46 am Thread Starter
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Re: Broke down

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Can you tell us what area you are currently in? there may be someone close enough to help.


I am in Antigonish, Nova Scotia. Was on my way back to the Annapolis Valley from a little tour around the Cabot Trail in Cape Breton. Late May I put 5000km on it going to Muskoka area in Ontario. At least it didn't happen way out there in the road and thousands of Kms from home.

Got a plan now to rent a ram 2500 cargo van. Hope it will fit in there. Gonna cost about $400 Canadian all said and done just to get it there. Called the shop near me that has been doing my work thinking I would drop it there and they won't work on it. Totally on my own with this. Looks like I'll have some learning to do tearing into it.


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post #10 of 37 Old Jul 27th, 2017, 9:07 am
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Re: Broke down

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I am in Antigonish, Nova Scotia. Was on my way back to the Annapolis Valley from a little tour around the Cabot Trail in Cape Breton. Late May I put 5000km on it going to Muskoka area in Ontario. At least it didn't happen way out there in the road and thousands of Kms from home.

Got a plan now to rent a ram 2500 cargo van. Hope it will fit in there. Gonna cost about $400 Canadian all said and done just to get it there. Called the shop near me that has been doing my work thinking I would drop it there and they won't work on it. Totally on my own with this. Looks like I'll have some learning to do tearing into it.


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Good luck with the transport. I agree that once you get it home, first thing is to check the magnet on the FD and see if there are any larger flakes or debris that cones out. It doesn't take too many tools to remove the FD and swing arm for inspection. If it is the drive shaft, they are usually readily available on Ebay and if you can remove the FD should it be that, Saddleman can take care of it as long as you can ship it to him in NC. There are people here that can help you though all of it as long as you are willing to try it.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #11 of 37 Old Jul 27th, 2017, 9:22 am Thread Starter
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Re: Broke down

It's looking like I have no choice but to try. I love the bike, but this is a setback.


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post #12 of 37 Old Jul 27th, 2017, 9:37 am
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Re: Broke down

Not sure if you live in Nova Scotia but I'm in Halifax if you need any assistance. My number is 902-237-1464
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post #13 of 37 Old Jul 27th, 2017, 10:13 am Thread Starter
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Re: Broke down

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Not sure if you live in Nova Scotia but I'm in Halifax if you need any assistance. My number is 902-237-1464


I live in Greenwood N.S.. Here now at Enterprise getting the van. Appreciate the offer though. Any experience with drive shaft work?


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post #14 of 37 Old Jul 27th, 2017, 10:50 am
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Re: Broke down

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I live in Greenwood N.S.. Here now at Enterprise getting the van. Appreciate the offer though. Any experience with drive shaft work?


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The drive shaft is not repairable so a replacement would need to be obtained should that be your issue. As I said, Ebay usually has some to offer around $100 US last I looked over purchasing a new one at over $1000 US.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #15 of 37 Old Jul 27th, 2017, 11:46 am
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Re: Broke down

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I live in Greenwood N.S.. Here now at Enterprise getting the van. Appreciate the offer though. Any experience with drive shaft work?


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You are about an hour and 1/2 from me but I will be in Wolfville Saturday/Sunday for the MS Bike rally. Have not dealt with your specific issue but do not mind offering whatever help I can. Let me know.

Regards

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post #16 of 37 Old Jul 27th, 2017, 12:58 pm
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Re: Broke down

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You are about an hour and 1/2 from me but I will be in Wolfville Saturday/Sunday for the MS Bike rally. Have not dealt with your specific issue but do not mind offering whatever help I can. Let me know.

Regards
To get it apart for inspection, the only special tools required would be a 12mm Allen wrench and a 30mm socket with a cheater bar. Putting it back together, you would need either for that 30mm socket to have a cut out in it for the Allen wrench or a 30mm wrench ( or equivalent) to do an initial tighten on the jam nuts while holding the 12mm Pivot Pins from turning while tightening and then hit with a good torque wrench with the 30mm. A cutout socket makes it easier but marking and making sure the pivot pin didn't turn works just as well.

Gordon
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2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #17 of 37 Old Jul 27th, 2017, 2:35 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Broke down

Got it in the van and been on the road 1/2 way home. bmwcoolk1200: it's going to take some YouTube watching to get to where I can understand what you are saying. I am just starting out on this but kind of good in a way to get into wrenching on it. I got a steep learning curve ahead of me.


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post #18 of 37 Old Jul 27th, 2017, 2:40 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Broke down

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You are about an hour and 1/2 from me but I will be in Wolfville Saturday/Sunday for the MS Bike rally. Have not dealt with your specific issue but do not mind offering whatever help I can. Let me know.



Regards


I am about 30mins down the 101 from Wolfville but give me a shout if you come down this way. I just got this bike in April and haven't really connected with the great community of riders out there who have already been a good help on here.


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post #19 of 37 Old Jul 27th, 2017, 3:03 pm
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Re: Broke down

We can direct you to John Zellers weep hole drilling video that shows in pretty much detail how to remove and replace the FD and swing arm which includes the drive shaft. Follow the link below and look at A, B abd C in the first post ion that thread. That will let you know what you are in for.

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt/...ing-video.html


Edit: After previewing weep A briefly, you might be able to inspect at least in part, the FD end U-Joint on the drive shaft by pulling back the boot

2nd edit. When you get to prying on the drive shaft to get the circlip to release it, protect the threads in the frame where you have to stick the screwdriver in as that is part of the frame and not easily replaced or repaired if you buggar the threads for the pivot pins. Same procedure on the FD end. The small yoke with the spline shaft is also held in with a circlip and you need to pry to get it to release and inspect that u-joint. Thinking ahead, if you do have to replace the drive shaft, make sure you get one with both pieces and not just the shaft connecting to the transmission.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #20 of 37 Old Jul 28th, 2017, 8:32 pm
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Re: Broke down

Put the bike on the center stand and in neutral. Loosen the clamp on the boot and pull it back. In a quiet area rotate the tire and if it is the drive shaft you will hear the clunking. At this point it does sound like a driveshaft universal and not a rear drive bearing. Keep us posted and we will walk you through this.

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post #21 of 37 Old Jul 28th, 2017, 9:59 pm
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Re: Broke down

Hey Maritimer, Keep your head up. The comments thus far make it sound like a rather intimidating project. With all the helps here, it really isn't as bad as it sounds. Discouraged, I know, but can be worked through. Best wishes to you as you get into this.

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post #22 of 37 Old Jul 29th, 2017, 9:47 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maritimer View Post
Got it in the van and been on the road 1/2 way home. bmwcoolk1200: it's going to take some YouTube watching to get to where I can understand what you are saying. I am just starting out on this but kind of good in a way to get into wrenching on it. I got a steep learning curve ahead of me.


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Tell us a little about your mechanical experience and we can better advise you without insulting your intelligence or adding more detail than you need. The FD and driveshaft removal is fairly easy. Assembly is a little trickier as engaging the driveshaft splines can test your patience and it helps to have an assistant when torquing the adjustable pivot pin nut.

I highly recommend you buy a Clymer manual. It will help you greatly and I recommend you study the full process before starting. This is a very doable job for anyone who is willing to do a little preparatory learning and take things step by step. And, when unsure of something, stop and check in here before you mess up something.

There is almost never a need to force something on the LT. If you find a need to hammer on so something, you are probably missing a step. I am not saying it doesn't take force to remove the highly torqued pivot pin nuts or pop the driveshaft splines off the shafts, but even these aren't excessive if done correctly - such as heating the area around the pivot pins in case they have thread lock.
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post #23 of 37 Old Jul 30th, 2017, 6:48 am
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Re: Broke down

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maritimer View Post
Got it in the van and been on the road 1/2 way home. bmwcoolk1200: it's going to take some YouTube watching to get to where I can understand what you are saying. I am just starting out on this but kind of good in a way to get into wrenching on it. I got a steep learning curve ahead of me.


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I tried to rent a van from U-Haul and they would not rent a van because I wanted to put a motorcycle inside. Some crap about gas fumes in the cab.
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post #24 of 37 Old Jul 30th, 2017, 4:33 pm
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Re: Broke down

I had a 01 new in 01. It left me on top of Mt Mitchell, the highest peak east of the Mississippi with a failed final drive at 6K miles. Recently bought another....after I get 15 post in so I can Pm I think I contact Saddleman....When I returned to the site my last visit was 12-30-04. I wonder if I broke a record?
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post #25 of 37 Old Jul 31st, 2017, 8:13 am Thread Starter
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Re: Broke down

Broke down-img_2101.jpg well drained the gear oil which was sparkling with metal flake and the plug was covered.

Mechanically I have low experience but got 2 arms. My problem is finding the time, but hoping to do a little more each day.

I am going to follow the advice to know mostly what needs to happen before starting.


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post #26 of 37 Old Jul 31st, 2017, 8:48 am
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Re: Broke down

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Attachment 129489 well drained the gear oil which was sparkling with metal flake and the plug was covered.

Mechanically I have low experience but got 2 arms. My problem is finding the time, but hoping to do a little more each day.

I am going to follow the advice to know mostly what needs to happen before starting.


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Well, based on that attached picture, you have a FD failure. Getting it off is not difficult. Only a couple bolts and the pivot pins and it will fall off. It is then a matter if if you have some local shop or if you would simply send it to Saddleman which IMO would be the better choice. I would get yourself a Clymer manual for reference and reassembly steps. Hopefully the offer of help is close enough to you to give you whatever help you need. It really isn't a difficult removal and re-install process. Hopefully you watched the weep hole videos. They are a very good exaple of the R and R of the FD. No need to pull the swing arm and drive shaft out unless you would want to inspect the pivot bearings and the front shaft U-Joint.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #27 of 37 Old Jul 31st, 2017, 9:31 am
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Re: Broke down

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Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
No need to pull the swing arm and drive shaft out unless you would want to inspect the pivot bearings and the front shaft U-Joint.
If he's that far in, I would pull the driveshaft for inspection of the u-joints.

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post #28 of 37 Old Jul 31st, 2017, 9:39 am
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Re: Broke down

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If he's that far in, I would pull the driveshaft for inspection of the u-joints.
With 130K on the meter, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #29 of 37 Old Jul 31st, 2017, 10:13 am
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Re: Broke down

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With 130K on the meter, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea.
Upon further discussions with Maritimer, he notes that he has had indications of clutch slippage so I imagine this will require a bit more of a tear down as well as some of the special tools to reinstall. I am working on getting a bike lift and more than willing to help if the bike is delivered to me for an extended period of time but do not have the special tools.

"If at first you don't succeed... well, so much for skydiving."

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2007 K1200LT - Nice now!
2003 R1150GS -Black Beauty (sold)
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1981 R100CS - Sadly gone
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post #30 of 37 Old Jul 31st, 2017, 6:02 pm
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Re: Broke down

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maritimer View Post
Attachment 129489 well drained the gear oil which was sparkling with metal flake and the plug was covered.

Mechanically I have low experience but got 2 arms. My problem is finding the time, but hoping to do a little more each day.

I am going to follow the advice to know mostly what needs to happen before starting.


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That is bad. I recommend you buy the latest Clymer manual (rev 3 as I recall) and spend a couple evenings with a cup of good coffee and read through the entire procedure at least twice. Then launch in slowly and carefully follow each step. You will be surprised what you are capable of doing. And check in here if you are unsure of any step ... before you do something you may regret.
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post #31 of 37 Old Jul 31st, 2017, 6:16 pm
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Re: Broke down

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Originally Posted by mr1150gs View Post
Upon further discussions with Maritimer, he notes that he has had indications of clutch slippage so I imagine this will require a bit more of a tear down as well as some of the special tools to reinstall. I am working on getting a bike lift and more than willing to help if the bike is delivered to me for an extended period of time but do not have the special tools.
If Maritimer needs to go that deep, in addition to Clymer manual study, I would spend a couple more evenings and review my experience last yesr. This is a long thread, but I was fairly detailed and posted lots of pictures and asked lots of questions. I also did many things unrelated to the clutch, but things that should be considered on a high mileage LT such as thorough TBI cleaning, crankcase ventilation replacement, etc.

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt/...air-saga.html#

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post #32 of 37 Old Jul 31st, 2017, 7:36 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Broke down

Got one of these bad boys off of vernvernvern on here and am reading up on the process.


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post #33 of 37 Old Jul 31st, 2017, 8:14 pm
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Re: Broke down

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Got one of these bad boys off of vernvernvern on here and am reading up on the process.


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If that is an original edition, be careful as it has at least one incorrect torque value listed. I think it is for the exhaust header nuts. If memory serves, one of our forum members learned this the hard way. I have both Clymer and the factory manual and I cross checked them continually to catch such errors. And I have done enough wrenching to have a pretty good idea how much torque a given size fastener should have. I believe Clymer corrected this in later editions.

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post #34 of 37 Old Jul 31st, 2017, 8:49 pm
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Re: Broke down

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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
If that is an original edition, be careful as it has at least one incorrect torque value listed. I think it is for the exhaust header nuts. If memory serves, one of our forum members learned this the hard way. I have both Clymer and the factory manual and I cross checked them continually to catch such errors. And I have done enough wrenching to have a pretty good idea how much torque a given size fastener should have. I believe Clymer corrected this in later editions.
Yep, unless someone else did it too, it was me. The text was correct but the table was not. Any time you see a Ft LB value higher than the Newton Meter value, it is incorrect. Find this page and make the correction. In my book it is page 263. I am sure it is not the only error but it is the only one I found due to my exhaust header flanges starting to bend. Mine is the 98-2010 edition 3 I believe. Find the section on fuel and exhaust systems at the end of that section to check. M501-3 in the upper corner of the front cover.
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Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #35 of 37 Old Aug 1st, 2017, 5:57 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Broke down

Holy cow thanks. I have the same m501 edition and the table was on the same page. Correction made. Really makes pulling the FD clearer. It's going to be 3 weeks before I can start anything on it. The same day this issue started, she was over revving when I gave it gas in the lower gears mostly 4 and 5th. I would give it gas and instead of rolling away the rpms would shoot up before it settled into accelerating like normal. No issue in the first to third gears. Thought both issues could be related at first when I started feeling the shudder through the bike from the FD. What are the chances of both issues starting on the same day?


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post #36 of 37 Old Aug 1st, 2017, 6:22 pm
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Re: Broke down

based on your latest post you will need to change the clutch and oil seals as well, unless you are riding the clutch on take off and over heating the DRY clutch, do not do that. No hard acceleration in any gear until the clutch is fully released.
ps. 4th and 5th gear as in your description, are higher gears not low, low gear is 1st.

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post #37 of 37 Old Aug 1st, 2017, 10:24 pm
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Re: Broke down

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maritimer View Post
Holy cow thanks. I have the same m501 edition and the table was on the same page. Correction made. Really makes pulling the FD clearer. It's going to be 3 weeks before I can start anything on it. The same day this issue started, she was over revving when I gave it gas in the lower gears mostly 4 and 5th. I would give it gas and instead of rolling away the rpms would shoot up before it settled into accelerating like normal. No issue in the first to third gears. Thought both issues could be related at first when I started feeling the shudder through the bike from the FD. What are the chances of both issues starting on the same day?


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As you pull off the FD and the drive shaft, take a good look at the rubber insulator in the shaft to make sure it isn't deteriorating before you pull the clutch out. With 130K on it and no record of a clutch replacement, the chances are higher that the clutch needs to be replaced but a good look at the shaft is in your best interest.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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