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post #1 of 52 Old Nov 28th, 2006, 1:59 pm Thread Starter
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Amsoil Oil Filter

I am doing my 24K service this week and decided I am going to switch to Amsoil synthetic oil for the engine, rear end and tranny. I am also thinking about using an Amsoil oil filter. This filter is painted so it makes me a little apprehensive about using it. Should I use the BMW stock filter or would it be OK to use the Amsoil filter. Any comments would be grately appreciated.
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post #2 of 52 Old Nov 28th, 2006, 2:01 pm
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What does Amsoil say about immersing their filter in their hot oil?

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post #3 of 52 Old Nov 28th, 2006, 2:41 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caper11
I am doing my 24K service this week and decided I am going to switch to Amsoil synthetic oil for the engine, rear end and tranny. I am also thinking about using an Amsoil oil filter. This filter is painted so it makes me a little apprehensive about using it. Should I use the BMW stock filter or would it be OK to use the Amsoil filter. Any comments would be grately appreciated.
We've been using them on multiple LT's for many, many thousands of miles with no problemo or paint flaking. If you have one, don't hesitate to use it.



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post #4 of 52 Old Nov 28th, 2006, 3:53 pm
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Why take the chance?

The cost of a filter is so small in relation to all other maintenance items, and the paint can come off. There is no guaranteed it won't, and if it does, look at the problems you'll have from saving a dollar or two. I just don't understand why.

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post #5 of 52 Old Nov 28th, 2006, 5:26 pm
 
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Dano,

I guess people prefer the superior flow, filtration and double the oil change interval that the AMSOIL products provide. Plus they have a warranty should their oil or filter cause problems, they pay for parts and labor of any affected part.
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post #6 of 52 Old Nov 28th, 2006, 7:29 pm
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Anybody know if that K1200LT filter cover plate is painted black on the inside surface? Or is the whole deal black thru and thru?

And BTW - around these parts, we've prolly got well over a million miles on Amsoil filters and nary a paint veneer loss yet. Anybody ever heard of a problem with the Amsoil filter coating?
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post #7 of 52 Old Nov 28th, 2006, 8:16 pm
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I'd hate to have to prove.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimVipond
Dano,

I guess people prefer the superior flow, filtration and double the oil change interval that the AMSOIL products provide. Plus they have a warranty should their oil or filter cause problems, they pay for parts and labor of any affected part.
Thanks, Tim,

I can understand your reasons based upon the stated benefits, it's just that if it came down to having to prove what happened or didn't happen because of not using a simple $12.00 filter, the burden would be on you and your "team" of experts. For me, it just isn't worth the risk.

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post #8 of 52 Old Nov 28th, 2006, 8:51 pm
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Dick, good question and I'm pretty sure that it is finished on the inside. I remember cleaning out the O-ring groove and noticing there was some "imperfection" of the finish on the inside.

Now, what kind of finish is it. Paint? Powder Coat? Epoxy? And is it even close to what any of the filter gurus finish their products with? I've no idea.

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post #9 of 52 Old Nov 28th, 2006, 10:06 pm
 
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Ill take a bunch of the BMW filters for 12 bucks.They cost 20 bucks at my dealer inc tax.
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post #10 of 52 Old Nov 28th, 2006, 10:41 pm
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BMW part # 11002300053 OIL CHANGE KIT (with o-ring and crush rings) lists for $17.00 at Chicago BMW, $13.60 with their 20 percent discount. Add shipping charges of course, but you can also buy several filters and all the 12K service parts to help spread the shipping costs out some.

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post #11 of 52 Old Nov 29th, 2006, 12:35 am
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Paint flecks

Has anyone ever heard of paint coming off a filter?? I've been using Amsoil in all my vehicles ( no, I'm not a dealer ) for over 15 years and have never seen any paint. I think this comes from the same ole wives tale (I know I'm gonna piss off David S. ) but has anyone ever heard of a Cee-Bailey windshield turning into shards upon impact? Remember, Cee Baily got their start manufacturing windshields for aircraft flying substantially faster than an LT. Just my $.02 worth.

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post #12 of 52 Old Nov 29th, 2006, 2:32 am
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I'm not an Amsoil cheerleader. But, as Dick pointed out, success with their oil filters around here. I've dropped them, or personally seen them dropped, out of LT's time after time without the slightest speck of any kind of paint detrimention.

Since a personal friend of mine (Swanzy) has kindly chunked them into the oil filter drawer over the years, yes I said years, they've been extensively used. I believe I put around 80,000 miles on my LT with them in it and I know Tim has done well over 100,000 miles.

It may be early, and I may be hallucinating (fixing to head to the coast to go fishing), but no paint has come off of them to date. If you have one, you can use it with confidence.

BTW, pulling them hot from the engine doesn't even mar the paint.



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post #13 of 52 Old Nov 29th, 2006, 6:57 am
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Exclamation Gunna Burst the Bubble on Amsoil Filters

Well guys I gotta tell you the bad news on Amsoil Filters; They've been redesigned. I bought 4 the other day and set them on the shelf for my next rounds of service and noticed the number change. Low and behold the filter is slightly smaller in diameter and you've prolly guessed it... your filter wrench will not fit. I returned them and was told the new number supersedes the old and is the only filter available. I'm back to using BMW filters and kits.

BTW and FWIW... I have over 80k and not a bit of problems with paint (or whatever coating the Amsoil filters have one them) coming off. They have been totally safe thus far, but it looks like we will have to get another filter wrench to use them.

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post #14 of 52 Old Nov 29th, 2006, 4:42 pm
 
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Ernie, Are you talking about the change in number from SMF122 to EaOM122? The change is for the better as the new filters have the new exclusive nanofiber media for filtration of smaller particles, hold more particles, flow better, and are now warranteed for parts and labor for 12 months instead of 6 months. Even if I have to buy another oil filter wrench, it is more than worth it for me. Shoot, the cost of the wrench plus 1 new filter probably costs less than buying 2 BMW or the old AMSOIL filters.
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post #15 of 52 Old Nov 29th, 2006, 5:15 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graydude
Has anyone ever heard of paint coming off a filter?? I've been using Amsoil in all my vehicles ( no, I'm not a dealer ) for over 15 years and have never seen any paint.
Do you have any vehicles other than the LT which have a filter IN the oil? I never heard of any actually flaking either, but saw no reason once the "possibility" was raised to take a chance.
Quote:
I think this comes from the same ole wives tale (I know I'm gonna piss off David S. ) but has anyone ever heard of a Cee-Bailey windshield turning into shards upon impact? Remember, Cee Baily got their start manufacturing windshields for aircraft flying substantially faster than an LT. Just my $.02 worth.
First, aircraft windshields on most general aviation aircraft will shatter if hit hard. I have seen a couple of these, one at the flying club I belonged to that hit a bird in the traffic pattern. There were sharp shards still in the frame, and pieces in the cockpit. I have not heard of anyone being impaled by a shard of broken acrylic motorcycle windshield, but the fact that Acrylic will shatter, Polycarbonate will not again leads me to want Polycarbonate in front of me, again, reducing the chances I would be hurt by a shard of Acrylic in an accident. In an aircraft, you are in the path of pieces that may be carried back by the windstream, on a motorcycle you are likely to impact the pieces which may be held in front of you by the mounting, or against something hard, which is likely worse than having them blown back by wind. When I cut down my first LT windshield I put the cut off piece in my vise and pounded on it with a hammer. Eventually folded it over, and then pounded the bend flat, not even cracks in the plastic. Acrylic would have been all over my gararge with the first strike. Just my choice to reduce the odds in that case, and since I always looked over the shield, it's clarity meant little. Yeah, the acrylic shields are "prettier", but that was not my main desire for a windshield.

Hey, it in no way "pisses me off", everyone sets their own level of safety requirements in each area, so we all are different. I have had three very bad accidents, all wearing a 3/4 helmet, when I know that a full helmet is better coverage (fortunately I suffered no serious head injuries in any of them) I still shudder when I look at that last helmet though! My head hit the pavement four different times, at different places and angles. I had a little road rash on my nose and upper lip, but that healed fast. I just set the bar for comfort vs. probable protection level in a helmet at a different level than many do.

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post #16 of 52 Old Nov 30th, 2006, 6:12 pm
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Nope and I've used them in all but one oil change in the last 60K miles.

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post #17 of 52 Old Dec 1st, 2006, 6:30 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimVipond
Ernie, Are you talking about the change in number from SMF122 to EaOM122? The change is for the better as the new filters have the new exclusive nanofiber media for filtration of smaller particles, hold more particles, flow better, and are now warranteed for parts and labor for 12 months instead of 6 months. Even if I have to buy another oil filter wrench, it is more than worth it for me. Shoot, the cost of the wrench plus 1 new filter probably costs less than buying 2 BMW or the old AMSOIL filters.
Find a filter wrench that fits and you are on your way. I searched all the local autoparts houses and none have one that will fit in the opening and fit the diameter of the filter. If you find something that works for you please share the info, because there are a lot of us that would like to know.

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post #18 of 52 Old Dec 1st, 2006, 6:47 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieA
Find a filter wrench that fits and you are on your way. I searched all the local autoparts houses and none have one that will fit in the opening and fit the diameter of the filter. If you find something that works for you please share the info, because there are a lot of us that would like to know.
Weird. I've used the same filter wrench end cap that was given to me 6 years ago by the owner of the 2000 K1200LT that I bought from him for both the SMF122 and the EaOM122 filters. I'm due for another oil change in December and will be installing an EaOM122 filter I bought 6 months ago. Maybe the problem is with a current production run? If anything, the dozen previous AMSOIL filters were a little too tight. Sounds like I may be using a smaller filter wrench than you. It either has to be a thin wall wrench to fit in the opening, or I think some had to shave off the outer lip of the wrench to get it to fit in the opening.
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post #19 of 52 Old Dec 1st, 2006, 7:39 am
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Wait until AMSOIL makes them un-painted!

Quote:
Originally Posted by graydude
Has anyone ever heard of paint coming off a filter?? I've been using Amsoil in all my vehicles ( no, I'm not a dealer ) for over 15 years and have never seen any paint. I think this comes from the same ole wives tale (I know I'm gonna piss off David S. ) but has anyone ever heard of a Cee-Bailey windshield turning into shards upon impact? Remember, Cee Baily got their start manufacturing windshields for aircraft flying substantially faster than an LT. Just my $.02 worth.
I LOVE Amsoil product and have a commercial account, but,

I just now checked 3 filters in my garage (For my auto's), two are perfect, one has paint bubbles around the crimped beading at the gasket and loose paint.

If you completely trust placing them IN THE OIL I would STRONGLY suggest using a plastic wrench or something to prevent scratching the flats.

My mechanical knowledge is my nemesis, I personally I would always be worried about paint flaking and playing havoc in the engines lubrication system. With my luck it will happen to me!



Tim,

I thought I read (on their web site) that Amsoil allows you to double the change interval using their oil. (12,000 mile vs. 6,000) (Harley 10,000 vs. 5,000)

Am I correct?

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post #20 of 52 Old Dec 1st, 2006, 8:44 am
 
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Tim,

I thought I read (on their web site) that Amsoil allows you to double the change interval using their oil. (12,000 mile vs. 6,000) (Harley 10,000 vs. 5,000)

Am I correct?[/QUOTE]

Correct, up to double the OEM oil change interval for the oil and the AMSOIL filter or 1 year whichever comes first. They've got car oils up to 35,000 miles normal driving or one year, whichever is first. I wish they had that for motorcycles!
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post #21 of 52 Old Dec 1st, 2006, 9:41 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimVipond
Tim,

I thought I read (on their web site) that Amsoil allows you to double the change interval using their oil. (12,000 mile vs. 6,000) (Harley 10,000 vs. 5,000)

Am I correct?
Correct, up to double the OEM oil change interval for the oil and the AMSOIL filter or 1 year whichever comes first. They've got car oils up to 35,000 miles normal driving or one year, whichever is first. I wish they had that for motorcycles![/QUOTE]
Thanks Tim,
BTW, I just got off the phone w/ my Amsoil jobber. He said they have the filter in chrome (EAOM 122 C (chrome). Not enough demand to make the unpainted filter.
This may help resolve the possible paint failure scare.

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post #22 of 52 Old Dec 5th, 2006, 5:56 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimVipond
Weird. I've used the same filter wrench end cap that was given to me 6 years ago by the owner of the 2000 K1200LT that I bought from him for both the SMF122 and the EaOM122 filters. I'm due for another oil change in December and will be installing an EaOM122 filter I bought 6 months ago. Maybe the problem is with a current production run? If anything, the dozen previous AMSOIL filters were a little too tight. Sounds like I may be using a smaller filter wrench than you. It either has to be a thin wall wrench to fit in the opening, or I think some had to shave off the outer lip of the wrench to get it to fit in the opening.
The EaOM122 is physically smaller in diameter than the BMW and SMF122 filters. The BMW Filter wrench will not work. Other oil filter wrenches of a similar style will not fit in the case or fit the filter, but I'm working on making an adapter for the BMW wrench. I'll post what I find that works.

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post #23 of 52 Old Dec 5th, 2006, 10:35 am
 
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I checked my oil filter wrench (Hazet 2169) and it fits the AMSOIL EaOM122 perfectly and it fits in the oil filter cavity, and found this description on line "This is a special 92mm socket with 1/2" drive and 15 points, used to remove the oil filtor on a Porsche 911. It will fit any Mann or Knecht filtor of the 92mm size. It will also fit several Audi/VW diesel cars. Please measure for your application. A fine quality German Made tool to use on your German car."

I would think it could be found at an auto supply store that specializes in German autos.
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post #24 of 52 Old Dec 5th, 2006, 3:14 pm
 
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Even though I am not concerned about paint coming off the AMSOIL filter and causing problems, I sent AMSOIL the following request.

Name TIM & TERESA VIPOND
ZO or Acct Number 1181889
Email [email protected]
Comments Please make a version of the EaOM122 unpainted. These are used in BMW motorcycles that have the oil filter sitting inside the oil pan with the engine oil. There is alot of concern that the paint could come off the filter and into the oil and cause problems in the engine. Many potential customers refuse to use any painted filter submersed in oil and we could probably sell more of these than the painted filter. Plus it would likely cost less.

I suggest others contact AMSOIL at www.amsoil.com and make the same request. Maybe if enough potential customers act, we will get the best filter made for our bikes, unpainted, and maybe for a buck less.
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post #25 of 52 Old Dec 6th, 2006, 8:21 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimVipond
Tim,


Correct, up to double the OEM oil change interval for the oil and the AMSOIL filter or 1 year whichever comes first. They've got car oils up to 35,000 miles normal driving or one year, whichever is first. I wish they had that for motorcycles!
Since our K1200LT's have a dry clutch, unlike most bikes, what makes our engines different than an auto engine? In other words, why can't we use the car oils and apply their recommended change intervals?

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post #26 of 52 Old Dec 6th, 2006, 10:09 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn_Keen
Since our K1200LT's have a dry clutch, unlike most bikes, what makes our engines different than an auto engine? In other words, why can't we use the car oils and apply their recommended change intervals?
A few reasons I can think of:
1. My 2006 manual states API classification SF, SG or SH. Most car/truck oils are SJ, SL, SM. These later classifications are formulated with different formulations.
2. There is a BMW service bulletin that recommends against SJ oils.
3. I prefer to use an oil and filter that is warranted for parts and labor should the oil or filter fail at up to double the OEM change interval or 1 year, whichever occurs first, which I used in my 137,000 mile 2000LT. I don't know of any car/truck oils that have a similar warranty for motorycles. The manufacturers themselves do not test/formulate/recommend their oils for use in motorcycles, and may not cover you should problems occur. Call them up and ask them.
4. I've noticed many car/truck oils tend to cloud up the oil level sight glass.
5. The sprague clutch which is splashed with engine oil is touchy as to what comes into contact with it.
6. Ask BMW if using a car/truck oil is a good idea. I did and they said motorcycle specific oils only.
A good source of information that gives reasons to use motorcycle oil over car oil and compares 26 motorcycle oils in 10 standard ASTM test methods can be found at https://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf .
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post #27 of 52 Old Dec 6th, 2006, 11:43 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimVipond
A few reasons I can think of:
1. My 2006 manual states API classification SF, SG or SH. Most car/truck oils are SJ, SL, SM. These later classifications are formulated with different formulations
2. There is a BMW service bulletin that recommends against SJ oils..
However, IF an oil lists the above grades, even if it meets SJ requirements it also meets any others listed. For instance: Castrol Syntec synthetic lists: "Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturer's warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where API SM, SL, SJ, SH, CF or CD is recommended"
Quote:
3. I prefer to use an oil and filter that is warranted for parts and labor should the oil or filter fail at up to double the OEM change interval or 1 year, whichever occurs first, which I used in my 137,000 mile 2000LT. I don't know of any car/truck oils that have a similar warranty for motorycles. The manufacturers themselves do not test/formulate/recommend their oils for use in motorcycles, and may not cover you should problems occur. Call them up and ask them.
4. I've noticed many car/truck oils tend to cloud up the oil level sight glass.
5. The sprague clutch which is splashed with engine oil is touchy as to what comes into contact with it.
The Sprag clutch needs lubrication, but it is not "touchy" in that respect. However, it acts as a small centrifuge, so any cabon buildup on the sprag cage causes the sprags to stick and not engage the hub properly. It is not a lubrication issue, but a sticking one. My sprag clutch stuck after thousands of miles running with broken piston ring lands allowed a lot of blow by, causing carbon buildup in in. There was no wear to speak of evident in it, and I could have just cleaned it and re-installed it, but I had the new part so put it in.
Quote:
6. Ask BMW if using a car/truck oil is a good idea. I did and they said motorcycle specific oils only.
Yet again you continue to bring this up when the person who answered your question totally destroyed any credibility he had with the comment about "damaging the clutch", which is certainly an issue with the NEW K bikes with the engine oil lubricated clutch, but NOT on the LT which has a dry clutch.
Quote:
A good source of information that gives reasons to use motorcycle oil over car oil and compares 26 motorcycle oils in 10 standard ASTM test methods can be found at https://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf .
I do not argue at all about whether or not Amsoil is a good oil, it is. However, I still very strongly believe that motorcycle specific oil accomplishes absolutely nothing in the "brick" K engine. Any GOOD automotive oil that meets the SG/SH requirements in 20W50 grade will fill the requirement nicely. There are a LOT of very high mileage BMWs on the road that do not use "motorcycle" oils. At 100,000 miles when I had to open up my engine due to the detonation damage to the pistons, there was practically NO measurable wear on ANY engine part. I put the original crank and rod bearings back in as there was no reason to change them. Even piston ring gaps were barely at the end of the INSTALL tolerances, had not even encroached on the allowable wear range yet!

I may have tried Amsoil myself, but saw no need to since very good oils are readily available at my local auto parts stores that will easily meet ALL requirements for the LT engine. Amsoil is not usually readily available in your neighborhood, which to me is it's greatest drawback. I can get very high end European synthetics easier here in San Diego, such as Motul and Lubro-Moly (Liqui-Moly). I like being able to walk in and pick up oil "off the shelf". However since the LT engine is basically an automotive design in all respects, felt no need to use other than off the shelf high grade automotive oils.

There would have to be evidence on many very high mileage LTs that used various oils to show any real advantage in using expensive oils. The real fact is that very many, if not most high mileage BMWs have used standard automotive "dino" oils, not even synthetic, so the "advantages" of any brand/type over another in the long run are very small at best.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
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post #28 of 52 Old Dec 6th, 2006, 12:00 pm
 
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I, the motorcycle manufactures, and the oil manufacturers all disagree with you, Mr. Healey. Please find some motorcycle and oil manufacturers that agree with you and will provide warranty protection in writing and post, please. Right now, they side with me. Why take a chance?
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post #29 of 52 Old Dec 6th, 2006, 12:20 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimVipond
I, the motorcycle manufactures, and the oil manufacturers all disagree with you, Mr. Healey. Please find some motorcycle and oil manufacturers that agree with you and will provide warranty protection in writing and post, please. Right now, they side with me. Why take a chance?
BS! Find BMW motorcycle engine failures to any extent related to oil to back up your claims. Why waste money? Empirical proof is far more relevant than any documentation that "proposes" a possible advantage.

Saying it "could" happen, when there is precious little to no evidence to back it up is just crying wolf. Spending more money when there is no problem to fix by doing so is just plain wasteful.

Using motorcycle oils in those bikes that need it, such as air cooled, low RPM, wet clutch, transmission gears lubed by engine oil, etc. is just fine, but the LT is NOT one of them. We are only talking about the LT here, nothing else. The BMW missive you posted in the past was totally discredited by the clutch statement, and carries absolutely NO weight relative to the LT. Where does BMW state in any LT owner's manual, service manual, or any other relative documentation that "motorcycle oil" is needed, or even recommended? Can't find it? Didn't think so.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #30 of 52 Old Dec 6th, 2006, 12:26 pm
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Amsoil

What a load of crap. I'll stick with dino that I can buy anywhere.


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post #31 of 52 Old Dec 6th, 2006, 12:49 pm
 
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David,

How many miles have you ridden on API SM oils? None. Car/truck oil formulations change all the time. These are not tested on motorcycles. If you can find someone that has 100's of thousands of miles using these API SM oils at 6,000 mile oil change intervals on a K1200LT, then I will reconsider my position.

How many oil companies recommend and warranty car/truck oils for BMW K1200LT's. None. They don't want the liability. They know that motorcycle oils and car/truck oils are formulated differently. Car oils have reduced metal protecting additives, because they can poison catalytic converters.

Have you ever asked BMW if they will warranty the K1200LT if you use car/truck oils? No? Why not? Why doesn't the 2006 BMW K1200LT list SJ, SL, SM oils? SJ has been around since 1997, SL since 2001, SM since 2004. It is because car/truck only oils with these API classifications are not optimum for use in the K1200LT. What is it that you know that the oil and BMW engineers don't know?

I got this quote the other day and it seems to fit here:

WORDS OF WISDOM


“It is unwise to pay too much, but it is worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money – that is all. When you pay too little you sometimes lose everything because the parts or labor you bought was incapable of doing the job it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot – it cannot be done. If you buy from the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

John Ruskin
1819 - 1900
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post #32 of 52 Old Dec 6th, 2006, 3:37 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimVipond
David,

How many miles have you ridden on API SM oils? None.
Wrong! I ran Castrol Syntec for over 60,000 miles, and here is the Castrol information:
.....
SAE 20W-50:


Provides superior oil film strength and extreme high temperature protection. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturer's warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where API SM, SL, SJ, SH, CF or CD is recommended. Exceeds European ACEA: A3, B3, B4, and the engine protection requirements of GM 4718M, ILSAC GF-4 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils.
............
Notice the API ratings includes SM,SJ, and SH.
Quote:
Car/truck oil formulations change all the time. These are not tested on motorcycles. If you can find someone that has 100's of thousands of miles using these API SM oils at 6,000 mile oil change intervals on a K1200LT, then I will reconsider my position.
Exactly my point. Neither can you find evidence of an oil related problem on LTs with hundreds of thousands of miles. Without a demonstrated problem, there is nothing to "fix".
Quote:

How many oil companies recommend and warranty car/truck oils for BMW K1200LT's. None. They don't want the liability. They know that motorcycle oils and car/truck oils are formulated differently. Car oils have reduced metal protecting additives, because they can poison catalytic converters.
Then we should poison the LT's catalytic coverter with oil that has higher volume of "metal protecting additives"?
Quote:

Have you ever asked BMW if they will warranty the K1200LT if you use car/truck oils? No? Why not? Why doesn't the 2006 BMW K1200LT list SJ, SL, SM oils? SJ has been around since 1997, SL since 2001, SM since 2004. It is because car/truck only oils with these API classifications are not optimum for use in the K1200LT. What is it that you know that the oil and BMW engineers don't know?
BMW does warranty repair engines that use oils that have SG/SH ratings included in the ratings, no matter if it is "motorcycle" specific or not. Of course the real fact is that warranty repairs on BMW engines will be done and the oil used not even questioned. If someone can point to a warranty repair where BMW even asked what kind of oil was used, it would be a rare instance.
Quote:

I got this quote the other day and it seems to fit here:

WORDS OF WISDOM


“It is unwise to pay too much, but it is worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money – that is all. When you pay too little you sometimes lose everything because the parts or labor you bought was incapable of doing the job it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot – it cannot be done. If you buy from the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

John Ruskin
1819 - 1900
We will be in total disagreement on this for life Tim. Being an engineer by trade, I will believe in what I can see from actual empirical evidence far more than someone's "projected possibilities" based on data not backed up by factual evidence. Problem is that there are very many thousands of "K" Brick engines that have ben used in motorcycles for three decades now, with proably few engine failures of any kind, and I doubt if even one failure can be factually related to oil type/brand used. Going far too long between changes, oil pump/regulator failures, or running them low on oil, certainly; but that has nothing to do with type or brand.

I think you are trying very hard to sell a fix for a "problem" regarding the LT that just does not exist to an extent warranting the slightest bit of worry about it. The new BMW transverse K engines though, another matter entirely. If I get one of those, I will use Motorcycle specific oil. Another LT though, nope.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #33 of 52 Old Dec 6th, 2006, 4:18 pm
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My 2 cents

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimVipond
A few reasons I can think of:
1. My 2006 manual states API classification SF, SG or SH. Most car/truck oils are SJ, SL, SM. These later classifications are formulated with different formulations.
Tim,

According to the API the ratings of SF, SG, and SH are obsolete and are only for engines made prior to 1996. Why does BMW specify an obsolete oil?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf API_ratings.pdf (218.5 KB, 41 views)

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #34 of 52 Old Dec 6th, 2006, 5:02 pm
 
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David, didn't you break your bike before API SM was even available in 2004? How could you have put 60,000 miles on an oil that wasn't even available until after your bike broke?

Nowhere does BMW suggest using car oils with API SJ, SL, SM. Ask them. If you can get BMWNA to say car/truck oils that are API SM rated are fine to use, then please post. They don't say API classification SF, SG or SH or Newer. They purposely stopped at SH.

Nowhere do car/truck oil companies say they meet motorcycle specifications in the oils and will cover them with a warranty. If you can get them to do so, please post.

David, feel free to use any oil you like. I prefer to follow the advice of the engineers who made the bike and the oil.

I know dozens of motorcyclists that are using motorcycle specific oils, and don't know of anyone using an API SM rated car/truck oil in their motorcycles, so how can you say it is just as good? Where is the data? Is anyone using an API SM rated car/truck oil? Which one? For how long? Do you have a warranty? Why is it worth the "risk"?

JZielier - API SF, SG, SH are obsolete for car/truck oils, but are still specified by motorcycle manufacturers including BMW.

Last edited by TimVipond; Dec 6th, 2006 at 7:04 pm.
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post #35 of 52 Old Dec 6th, 2006, 7:07 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimVipond
JZielier - API SF, SG, SH are obsolete for car/truck oils, but are still specified by motorcycle manufacturers including BMW.
Sure BMW recommends the obsolete oils because the engine was designed before the oils went obsolete. The engine design has not changed so why spec a better oil than it needs - that would be a waste.

It is not car or motorcycle that API rates their oils standards for but engine design parameters based on bearing and other engine materials and tolerances.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #36 of 52 Old Dec 6th, 2006, 7:30 pm
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chrome version oil filter, EaOM122C

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimVipond
Even though I am not concerned about paint coming off the AMSOIL filter and causing problems, I sent AMSOIL the following request.

Name TIM & TERESA VIPOND
ZO or Acct Number 1181889
Email [email protected]
Comments Please make a version of the EaOM122 unpainted. These are used in BMW motorcycles that have the oil filter sitting inside the oil pan with the engine oil. There is alot of concern that the paint could come off the filter and into the oil and cause problems in the engine. Many potential customers refuse to use any painted filter submersed in oil and we could probably sell more of these than the painted filter. Plus it would likely cost less.

I suggest others contact AMSOIL at www.amsoil.com and make the same request. Maybe if enough potential customers act, we will get the best filter made for our bikes, unpainted, and maybe for a buck less.
This is the response from AMSOIL;

From: Holappa, Richard
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 2:28 PM
To: Mail TechService
Subject: RE: Technical Service Contact Form

Dear Sir:



Thank you for contacting AMSOIL with your concerns.



In response to your inquiry, AMSOIL also offers a chrome version, EaOM122C, has a little or no chance of the coating coming off.



Thank you again for the opportunity to respond to your concerns. As always, please feel free to contact us again if we can be of further assistance.



Sincerely




Richard Holappa, Jr.

Technical Product Manager: Filtration


The accuracy of this e-mail response is dependent upon the information provided. AMSOIL INC. is not responsible for wrong recommendations that were based on inaccurate or incomplete information

2013 BMW Damask Red K1600GTL
2014 BMW K1600GTL-E EXCLUSIVE
2001 Honda C-250 Helix
SOLD 2006 BMW K-1200LT "The Manatee"

Smokin'


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post #37 of 52 Old Dec 6th, 2006, 8:12 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimVipond
David, didn't you break your bike before API SM was even available in 2004? How could you have put 60,000 miles on an oil that wasn't even available until after your bike broke?

Nowhere does BMW suggest using car oils with API SJ, SL, SM. Ask them. If you can get BMWNA to say car/truck oils that are API SM rated are fine to use, then please post. They don't say API classification SF, SG or SH or Newer. They purposely stopped at SH. -------------------.
The Castrol oil does have SH in the rating. And, nowhere does BMW state that one should use "Motorcycle" SH rated oil in the LT. The one email you had was useless, and did not state any BMW engineering mandated specification, just one misguided persons opinion. Later oils can still use the earlier designations if the oil has not changed in such a way as to no longer meet that standard. BMW stated no SJ rated oil when it first came out, and if I remember correctly SJ was the first API rating ever that was not fully backward compatible. Newer ratings on SOME oils however have re-instated the SH rating, which means that they now fulfill ALL requirements of SH, or they could not put it in the specification. So, using it FULLY and COMPLETELY fulfills BMW's stated oil specification for use in the LT.

Yes, I can and will use what oil I please, as will you. No problem with that at all. I do have an issue with your scare tactics trying to get people to use whatever brand you are pushing, when there is absolutely NO historical record whatsoever for the past 3 decades on the "K" engine that supports any need, or even any noticeable gain due to the "advantages" you state. Basically, if it ain't broke, there is no gain in "fixing" it. It is like someone to whom a size 9 shoe is perfectly comfortable thinking that a size 10 would be fantastic.

As I said, if I get a bike with the new K configuration, then I may consider Amsoil, IF it is available on a moments notice local to me, other wise I will use a high grade brand that meets the specs needed and more readily available, and have absolutely no qualms about it being good enough.

Now if there were actual INDEPENDENT tests (not sponsored by or run by any one oil company) that showed any significant measurable gains in any area that actually improved end performance of or lengthened the service life of the LT style engine due to oil used, then that would be more acceptable as a possible reason someone may wish to use it. Otherwise, it is all just wishful thinking and hot air overkill. Yes, a 30-06 will kill a squirrel, but why? Does it kill it any "better"? How many here will actually ever wear out an LT engine? Don Arthur had well over 300,000 miles on his, and it was still running just fine. Several have gone over 200,000 with no issues, mine looked and measured like it would have easily topped 200,000 if not for the detonation damaged pistons. What will Amsoil, or any other oil do to improve that, and how many riders here really care? I imagine out of the thousands of LTs on the road, only a handful will ever see much over 200,000 on them. Maybe the second, third, etc. owners will in a few years. Not many first owners will spend extra money to help out the later owners though.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #38 of 52 Old Dec 6th, 2006, 9:40 pm
 
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David, so did you really put 60,000 miles on a K1200LT with an API SM rated oil like you said you did? This is the issue. I don't know anyone that has. Nobody recommends an API SM rated car oil for a K1200LT except for you. I prefer to follow the recommendations of the engineers that built the engine and those that formulate the oil specifically for its use. The 2006 BMW manual does not recommend any car oil with the API SJ, SL or SM designation, even if it is SH. The new designation are formulation changes that BMW is not recommending. I don't see how you can say it is a "scare tactic" to recommend following what the manufacturer says.

I'm glad you brought up Don Arthur's bike. He used the BMW motorcycle oil at 15,000 mile oil changes. No API SJ, SL, SM. Just the manual specified API SF, SG, SH.

Last edited by TimVipond; Dec 6th, 2006 at 10:34 pm.
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post #39 of 52 Old Dec 7th, 2006, 7:48 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimVipond
David, so did you really put 60,000 miles on a K1200LT with an API SM rated oil like you said you did?
edited: I used BMW dino for 18,000, then BMW synthetic for 5-6 oil changes, which would have put me at about 48,000, then switched to Castrol Synthetic which I used until the bike was totaled at 110,000. I only know that it was SH rated, did not keep up with the addition of ratings over time.
Quote:
This is the issue. I don't know anyone that has. Nobody recommends an API SM rated car oil for a K1200LT except for you. I prefer to follow the recommendations of the engineers that built the engine and those that formulate the oil specifically for its use. The 2006 BMW manual does not recommend any car oil with the API SJ, SL or SM designation, even if it is SH. The new designation are formulation changes that BMW is not recommending. I don't see how you can say it is a "scare tactic" to recommend following what the manufacturer says.

I'm glad you brought up Don Arthur's bike. He used the BMW motorcycle oil at 15,000 mile oil changes. No API SJ, SL, SM. Just the manual specified API SF, SG, SH.
I will say it ONE more time, them I am out of here. If the oil has an SH rating, it has to FULLY fulfill SH requirements, even if it has other later ratings on it. BMW only stated that SJ should not be used at the advent of SJ, but have not come out aganist SL or SM, and since SJ originally came out without SG/SH ratings, but later ones of some brands offerings now again include SH, they should be fine. I can only assume they re-formulated again to re-match the SH requirements in the later issues. I am pretty sure that SJ was the only API rating ever that did not fulfill all previous requirements. Up to that point the ratings were all backward compliant as far as I know.

If Castrol is stating SH on their product, but it does not meet SH requirements then Castrol is at fault.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.

Last edited by dshealey; Dec 7th, 2006 at 8:09 am.
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post #40 of 52 Old Dec 7th, 2006, 7:59 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimVipond
I'm glad you brought up Don Arthur's bike. He used the BMW motorcycle oil at 15,000 mile oil changes. No API SJ, SL, SM. Just the manual specified API SF, SG, SH.
Tim,
If you look at the bottle of BMW "motorcycle" oil it does not say specially formulated for motorcycles and it also does not state SF, SG , or SH. It does state it exceeds SG which is the same as SH, SL, and SM. I am also done as I know when to spend my time at better ventures.

David,

You know and engineer can never win with a marketer.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #41 of 52 Old Dec 7th, 2006, 8:34 am
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BMW recommends CASROL!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
The Castrol oil does have SH in the rating. And, nowhere does BMW state that one should use "Motorcycle" SH rated oil in the LT. The one email you had was useless, and did not state any BMW engineering mandated specification, just one misguided persons opinion. Later oils can still use the earlier designations if the oil has not changed in such a way as to no longer meet that standard. BMW stated no SJ rated oil when it first came out, and if I remember correctly SJ was the first API rating ever that was not fully backward compatible. Newer ratings on SOME oils however have re-instated the SH rating, which means that they now fulfill ALL requirements of SH, or they could not put it in the specification. So, using it FULLY and COMPLETELY fulfills BMW's stated oil specification for use in the LT.

Yes, I can and will use what oil I please, as will you. No problem with that at all. I do have an issue with your scare tactics trying to get people to use whatever brand you are pushing, when there is absolutely NO historical record whatsoever for the past 3 decades on the "K" engine that supports any need, or even any noticeable gain due to the "advantages" you state. Basically, if it ain't broke, there is no gain in "fixing" it. It is like someone to whom a size 9 shoe is perfectly comfortable thinking that a size 10 would be fantastic.

As I said, if I get a bike with the new K configuration, then I may consider Amsoil, IF it is available on a moments notice local to me, other wise I will use a high grade brand that meets the specs needed and more readily available, and have absolutely no qualms about it being good enough.

Now if there were actual INDEPENDENT tests (not sponsored by or run by any one oil company) that showed any significant measurable gains in any area that actually improved end performance of or lengthened the service life of the LT style engine due to oil used, then that would be more acceptable as a possible reason someone may wish to use it. Otherwise, it is all just wishful thinking and hot air overkill. Yes, a 30-06 will kill a squirrel, but why? Does it kill it any "better"? How many here will actually ever wear out an LT engine? Don Arthur had well over 300,000 miles on his, and it was still running just fine. Several have gone over 200,000 with no issues, mine looked and measured like it would have easily topped 200,000 if not for the detonation damaged pistons. What will Amsoil, or any other oil do to improve that, and how many riders here really care? I imagine out of the thousands of LTs on the road, only a handful will ever see much over 200,000 on them. Maybe the second, third, etc. owners will in a few years. Not many first owners will spend extra money to help out the later owners though.
[/QUOTE]TimVipondDavid, so did you really put 60,000 miles on a K1200LT with an API SM rated oil like you said you did? This is the issue. I don't know anyone that has. Nobody recommends an API SM rated car oil for a K1200LT except for you. I prefer to follow the recommendations of the engineers that built the engine and those that formulate the oil specifically for its use. The 2006 BMW manual does not recommend any car oil with the API SJ, SL or SM designation, even if it is SH. The new designation are formulation changes that BMW is not recommending. I don't see how you can say it is a "scare tactic" to recommend following what the manufacturer says.

I'm glad you brought up Don Arthur's bike. He used the BMW motorcycle oil at 15,000 mile oil changes. No API SJ, SL, SM. Just the manual specified API SF, SG, SH.[/QUOTE]


Gentlemen,

I have attached a scan of my BMW maintenance oil spec. pages for my 2006 LT.

Interesting enough it states at the bottom lower right “BMW recommends Castrol”.

Additionally it clearly states that “Proprietary HD oil, API classification SF, SG, OR (emphasis added) SH………..The word OR is important, as is “classification G4, OR G-5; suffix PD2 is allowable”.



We sure have veered from the original question from “Caper11I am also thinking about using an Amsoil oil filter. This filter is painted so it makes me a little apprehensive about using it. Should I use the BMW stock filter or would it be OK to use the Amsoil filter?”
Attached Files
File Type: pdf BMW OIL 12-07-06.pdf (328.1 KB, 60 views)

2013 BMW Damask Red K1600GTL
2014 BMW K1600GTL-E EXCLUSIVE
2001 Honda C-250 Helix
SOLD 2006 BMW K-1200LT "The Manatee"

Smokin'


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Last edited by SmokinJoe; Dec 7th, 2006 at 8:41 am.
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post #42 of 52 Old Dec 7th, 2006, 8:48 am
 
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Castrol Syntec is what I run too. Here are the specs from their website:

SAE 20W-50: provides superior oil film strength and extreme high temperature protection. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturer's warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where API SM, SL, SJ, SH, CF or CD is recommended. Exceeds European ACEA: A3, B3, B4, and the engine protection requirements of GM 4718M, ILSAC GF-4 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils.

According to the BMW oil bulletin it's good to go.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 285598-SJ-Engine-Oil-Not-Approved.pdf (166.9 KB, 64 views)
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post #43 of 52 Old Dec 7th, 2006, 8:59 am
 
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Maybe this will lighten the mood a bit?

I say we can be friendly as long as we don't start a Harley bashing thread, talk about how to brake, which oil/filter to use, whether the LT is a good starter bike, or if it's OK to hog the left lane when doing the speed limit.
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post #44 of 52 Old Dec 7th, 2006, 9:29 am
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I'd like to add my 2-cents. I have used both Pennzoil 20-50w Motorcycle oil in both my 1998 R1100RT and my 2000 K1200LT. Aboulutely no issues. I changed to Amsoil and have had no issued. Point here is that I swithched back to Pennzoil Motorcycle 20-50w becasue it was cheaper and more readily available.

It appears to me, that unless BMWNA recommend a specific oil for specific issues, it does noe make a whole lot of sense to pay over $3.00 a qt when you can get the same protection for halt the cost. It is just a matter of personal preference.

I do agree with David, oil manufacturers must label correctly and insure backward compatibility when changing oil ratings and specifications..

Over and out.

OKU

O. K. Upchurch III
Irvine, California

2016 R1200gs
2000 K1200LT (Best Bike #1)
1997 R1100RT (Best Bike #2)
1995 K1100LT
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post #45 of 52 Old Dec 7th, 2006, 4:29 pm
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Sheesh, is it time for the winter oil flame fest already? Can't we all just agree, like we do with what tires are best?

Quote:
AMSOIL INC. is not responsible for wrong recommendations that were based on inaccurate or incomplete information.
That about covers it.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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post #46 of 52 Old Dec 9th, 2006, 8:21 pm
 
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API SF, SG, SH is not the same formulation as SH, SJ, SL, SM. They are back compatable for CAR requirements, but not motorcycle requirements. The SJ, SL, SM were formulation changes in friction modifiers that can cause wet clutches to slip (thus JASO MA and MB ratings were created in 1998) reduction in antiwear metals that can poison catalytic converters, as well as other formulation changes such as less resistance to shear that are not optimal to motorcycles. This is why it is stated in the 2006 BMW K1200LT and other motorcycle manuals to use SF, SG, SH only without the additional SJ, SL, SM. This is why Castrol's motorcycle oils are listed as SG ONLY. This is why Castrol's car oils are listed SM, SL, SJ, SH. This is why the BMW motorcycle bulletin states SJ is not to be used. This is why Castrol makes a different line of motorcycle and car oils. Not sure how Castrol can be more clear than this.

I was also trying to clarify if Mr. Healey had actually put 60,000 miles on the Castrol SM rated oil like he proudly stated as his personal recommendation. I didn't think he could have used that oil as the API SM oil came out after he broke and then wrecked his bike. Now he admits he is not sure, so I'm glad we cleared that up. I just wanted to make sure others did not take his recommendation as "gospel", because he likely did not even use his recomended API SM oil and because the K1200LT motorcycle manufacturers and motorcycle oil blenders certainly do not recommend and list API SM oils.

David also said, "why provide a fix for something that is not broken". I agree. Stick with the tried and true SF,SG and SH rated oils that nearly all of us have used in our K1200LT's since 1999 for millions of trouble free miles and be very cautious about using the API SM car oils that have only been around since Nov. 2004 that only a few are experimenting with in K1200LT's for thousands of miles. If you have any question whether a specific oil should be used in a K1200LT and it lies outside of the K1200LT owners manual, then ask BMW or the oil manufacturer. And let us know.

Last edited by TimVipond; Dec 9th, 2006 at 9:22 pm.
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post #47 of 52 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 1:35 pm
 
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BMW response to engine oil in K1200LT

Dear Mr. Vipond:

Thank you for contacting BMW Motorrad USA regarding your K 1200 LT. We appreciate your inquiry.

All BMW motorcycles imported by the USA come from the factory with petroleum based Castrol oil (20W50) in the crankcases. BMW Motorrad USA recommends any motorcycle-dedicated oil (synthetic or petroleum base) throughout the life of the engine, with Castrol being the preferred brand. We do not suggest using synthetic oil until after the 6,000 mile service.

Car motor oils have been reformulated and no longer meet the needs of a motorcycle engine. If an automotive oil is used in your motorcycle, clutch damage may be experienced, and BMW Motorrad USA would not be liable for any consequential damage.

If you have any further questions, please respond to this e-mail or contact the Customer Relations and Services Department at 1-800-831-1117. Our office hours are Monday through Friday from 9:00 A.M. to 9:00 P.M., Eastern Standard Time.

Regards,
BMW Motorrad USA




-----Original Message-----

From: [email protected]
Sent: 12/11/2006 12:00:00 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [bmw-admin] [visitor-feedback] Message from site visitor

&nbsp;Tim Vipond sent the following message from the site:My 2006 K1200LT BMW motorcycle manual states that "Proprietary HD oil, API classification SF, SG or SH: suffix letters CD or CE are allowable; alternatively, proprietary HD oil of CCMC classification G4 or G5; suffix PD2 is allowable."
SAE 20W50 and 15W50 are the recommended viscosities for my temperature range.

Would Castrol Syntec auto/light truck 20W50 oil SAE 20W-50 which states: "provides superior oil film strength and extreme high temperature protection. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturer's warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where API SM, SL, SJ, SH, CF or CD is recommended. Exceeds European ACEA: A3, B3, B4, and the engine protection requirements of GM 4718M, ILSAC GF-4 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils."

meet these specifications and be a good choice for this dry clutch motorcycle? If this oil fails in this application, do you warranty for parts and labor?Full name: Tim VipondUsername: Email address: [email protected]ddress: 6011 Amelia Terrace Court, Sugar Land, TX 77479Browser info: Netscape 5.0 (Windows; en-US) (this information may be useful if the user is complaining of technical problems on the site)Regards,BMWMotorcycles.com&nbsp;&nbsp;
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post #48 of 52 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 2:07 pm
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Quote:
If an automotive oil is used in your motorcycle, clutch damage may be experienced, and BMW Motorrad USA would not be liable for any consequential damage.
Repeat after me, Tim: "The K1200LT has a separate dry clutch that never comes in contact with the engine oil."

If engine oil does get to the clutch on a K1200LT, then you're looking at a very expensive repair bill. The new slant-4 K motor does have a wet clutch, but that's not what we're discussing here.

Just because some paper-pusher at BMW gives you a blanket statement regarding all BMW motorcycles in all conditions doesn't make him right. I'll take Shealey's engineering experience over some suit with a name tag any day. You may choose to do differently with your bike. And we'd both be right, for our own purposes. Isn't choice a wonderful thing?

Now I'd politely like to suggest that we drop this particular discussion, since we're all just rehashing the same claims over and over again. How about we just go riding instead?

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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post #49 of 52 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 2:46 pm
 
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I know what kind of clutch the K1200LT has. In fact, that is exactly what I stated in my email to BMW. I've owned 2. One for 137,000 miles and my 2006 for 12,000 miles. I had one dry clutch replaced, like many others have. Just passing on the OFFICIAL BMW response to our question. I've asked the same question to Castrol and waiting to hear their response. I'll post what they send me. That should be new info, as I haven't heard of anything official from them.

Last edited by TimVipond; Dec 11th, 2006 at 3:31 pm.
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post #50 of 52 Old Dec 11th, 2006, 4:34 pm
 
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Castrol response to engine oil in K1200LT

Castrol always recommends following the guidelines of the engine manufacturer for the recommended grade and API specific to your application. This information can be found in the vehicles owner's manual, by contacting the manufacturer directly.

Castrol does not recommend using automotive oils in motorcycles. The Reason? In 1996 the American Petroleum Institute (API) upgraded the performance standards of automotive oil from SG to SJ (currently SM). This upgrade impacted the friction modifiers and zinc and phosphorus levels, to address the fuel economy, catalytic converter and pollution issues of passenger car owners. Motorcycle engines appreciate a higher level of the anti-wear ingredients of zinc and phosphorus.

We have formulated our line of Castrol Motorcycle oils to be API SG. This allows us to optimize the formula specifically for motorcycles without being constrained by the specification demands for passenger car engines, which our passenger car oil must meet. All Castrol Motorcycle oils have low volatility to reduce the effects of oil evaporation, and they can be up to 50% lower than many API SL/SJ passenger car engine oils. API SJ engine oils have a minimal shear stability requirement; therefore, some types may lose their viscosity more quickly when used in a motorcycle, due to the stresses of these bike engines.

The Castrol motorcycle line includes oil for 2 stroke, 4 stroke and V-Twin oils with a wide variety of viscosity ranges and oil types, including mineral, synthetic blend and fully synthetic formulations. This variety offers superior performance for all motorcycle rider demands and every type of riding condition.

For an air cooled motorcycle, we recommend a V-Twin formulation- Castrol V-Twin, and Castrol ActEvo V-twin

For the liquid-cooled, either V-twin or 4 stroke would be appropriate, and your choice should be based on the viscosity requirements of the
motorcycle-
Castrol ActEvo, Castrol GPS, and Castrol R4 Superbike

Castrol's line of motorcycle products are available through motorcycle specialty shops and regional distributors.

If you would like to locate a distributor or retailer near you, call Motorcycle Stuff at 1-800-325-3673

To purchase online visit: www.proformanceusa.com

For more information on all of Castrol's motorcycle oils visit:
www.castrol.com/us and click 'Products & Services' then 'For You' then
'Motorcycles'

Castrol Consumer Relations

Last edited by TimVipond; Dec 11th, 2006 at 8:15 pm.
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