Gold Wing comfort - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 20 Old Jul 14th, 2017, 9:16 pm Thread Starter
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Gold Wing comfort

In SLC today, I rode an Eagle Rider GL1800 on a 500 mile loop thru the mountains and around Flaming Gorge. Magnificent motorcycle, the engine is just fabulous! Handles great too. I found the seating cramped and the legroom very cramped. I'm thrilled that I prefer my LT!
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post #2 of 20 Old Jul 14th, 2017, 9:50 pm
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Re: Gold Wing comfort

Yeah, that Gold Wing motor is one fine piece of machinery. My riding buddy who has one and I have decided that motor in the LT chassis would be killer!

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post #3 of 20 Old Jul 16th, 2017, 9:34 am
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Re: Gold Wing comfort

If only BMW made an inline-6 motor that naturally balances both primary and secondary harmonics...



Of course, an awesome motor like that would have abundant horsepower and massive torque, and it would have to be mounted in a brilliant chassis that offers all the latest performance, comfort, and convenience features one might expect from a modern, top of the line motorcycle...

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post #4 of 20 Old Jul 16th, 2017, 9:46 am
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Re: Gold Wing comfort

Hmm. That bike looks vaguely familiar. :-)

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post #5 of 20 Old Jul 16th, 2017, 3:21 pm
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Re: Gold Wing comfort

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese View Post
If only BMW made an inline-6 motor that naturally balances both primary and secondary harmonics...



Of course, an awesome motor like that would have abundant horsepower and massive torque, and it would have to be mounted in a brilliant chassis that offers all the latest performance, comfort, and convenience features one might expect from a modern, top of the line motorcycle...

And it would have better comfort and wind protection than their last luxury tourer designed in the late 90s. And a trunk that doesn't bounce against the passenger. And a simple oil drain plug. And...

BMW needs to learn the essence of the Hippocratic oath before their next new design. First, do no harm.

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post #6 of 20 Old Jul 16th, 2017, 5:13 pm
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Re: Gold Wing comfort

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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
And it would have better comfort and wind protection than their last luxury tourer designed in the late 90s. And a trunk that doesn't bounce against the passenger. And a simple oil drain plug. And...

BMW needs to learn the essence of the Hippocratic oath before their next new design. First, do no harm.
Oil changes are much more simple on the K1600 than the LT and although I haven't tackled brake fluid changes yet, it's got to be much easier also. I found that I have oil on my clutch though, unlike my LT, but wait... it's supposed to, so I don't need to worry about drilling weep holes and ruined clutches from oil leaks.
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post #7 of 20 Old Jul 16th, 2017, 5:51 pm
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Re: Gold Wing comfort

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese View Post
If only BMW made an inline-6 motor that naturally balances both primary and secondary harmonics...



Of course, an awesome motor like that would have abundant horsepower and massive torque, and it would have to be mounted in a brilliant chassis that offers all the latest performance, comfort, and convenience features one might expect from a modern, top of the line motorcycle...

LOL...yup, that's what I'm talkin' about! I thought after I posted that the GTL is exactly what I was describing.

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post #8 of 20 Old Jul 16th, 2017, 6:58 pm
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Re: Gold Wing comfort

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Originally Posted by JNW003 View Post
Oil changes are much more simple on the K1600 than the LT and although I haven't tackled brake fluid changes yet, it's got to be much easier also. I found that I have oil on my clutch though, unlike my LT, but wait... it's supposed to, so I don't need to worry about drilling weep holes and ruined clutches from oil leaks.
The man who recently had his wrench snap off in the upper drain plug might disagree. What an insanely stupid design.

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post #9 of 20 Old Jul 16th, 2017, 7:07 pm
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Re: Gold Wing comfort

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Originally Posted by powwow View Post
LOL...yup, that's what I'm talkin' about! I thought after I posted that the GTL is exactly what I was describing.
I thought that also until I rented a GTL the first time in 2013. The specs looked superb. I fully expected to come back from Zurich ready to sell my LT and buy a GTL. Just the opposite happened. My wife did not like the GTL at all. I wasn't as negative as her, but the GTL was decidedly lacking in several key areas.

I rented a GTLE in 2015 in London and there was no significant improvement. Maybe a little less drive train slop, but still way too much. I plan to try again next year in London again for a tour of Ireland. Might be able to get a new model with the new fairing and mirrors and see if that provides tolerable rain protection.

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post #10 of 20 Old Jul 16th, 2017, 7:50 pm
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Re: Gold Wing comfort

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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
The man who recently had his wrench snap off in the upper drain plug might disagree. What an insanely stupid design.
RL Lemke on the K1600fforum.com forum sells a Superplug which solves that problem. It's basically the upper drain plug with a 1/4" socket welded to the end of it which simplifies the process, such that the village idiot can do it without worrying about it dropping into the crankcase. Both the LT and K1600 series bikes have their unique issues and DIY owners have devised tools to solve challenges. In the case of the LT, there is the BeemerBoneYard funnel for doing the servos and a cutout socket for another issue.

Although I loved my LT, I am a proponent of the K1600:

I frequent both this site and it's sister site and note that the K1600 owners do not cite issues about fuel line breakage; quick disconnects spewing fuel; top case latches failing; brake lines bursting; final drive crown bearing problems; windshield brackets breaking; low speed front wheel wobbling under deceleration; brake servos going out; oil on clutches; difficulty in changing out the air filter as the fuel tank needs to be removed first, etc., etc.

I do miss the level of technical expertise available on this forum for the LT, which is lacking on the K1600 and sincerely miss the fellowship that the Curve Cowboy Reunion brought to our predominately K-bike community.


Dave Beck
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post #11 of 20 Old Jul 16th, 2017, 9:34 pm
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Re: Gold Wing comfort

Quote:
Originally Posted by JNW003 View Post
RL Lemke on the K1600fforum.com forum sells a Superplug which solves that problem. It's basically the upper drain plug with a 1/4" socket welded to the end of it which simplifies the process, such that the village idiot can do it without worrying about it dropping into the crankcase. Both the LT and K1600 series bikes have their unique issues and DIY owners have devised tools to solve challenges. In the case of the LT, there is the BeemerBoneYard funnel for doing the servos and a cutout socket for another issue.

Although I loved my LT, I am a proponent of the K1600:

I frequent both this site and it's sister site and note that the K1600 owners do not cite issues about fuel line breakage; quick disconnects spewing fuel; top case latches failing; brake lines bursting; final drive crown bearing problems; windshield brackets breaking; low speed front wheel wobbling under deceleration; brake servos going out; oil on clutches; difficulty in changing out the air filter as the fuel tank needs to be removed first, etc., etc.

I do miss the level of technical expertise available on this forum for the LT, which is lacking on the K1600 and sincerely miss the fellowship that the Curve Cowboy Reunion brought to our predominately K-bike community.

I agree that the K1600 is improved in many areas compared to the LT. Unfortunately, it also lost ground in areas critical to my personal mission: long distance, all weather, two-up touring. I spend 90% of my miles cruising on two lanes or interstates and less than 10% canyon carving. For this use, 160 HP has no value compared to 117 as probably only 30 is being used during cruise. I ride in the rain and cold a lot in PA. The GTL soaks my hands and feet within minutes compared to hours on the LT. And my wife dislikes the seat, the "hidden" grab handles, the air buffeting and the bouncing Betty trunk.

These shortcomings far trump the advantages of the GTL for my mission. It is like Chevy coming out with a new Corvette with 100 more HP, better handling and better braking, but leaving out a heater and air conditioner. Some enthusiasts would still buy, but most would not give up that much comfort to gain a modest performance increase. That is how I view what BMW did with the GTL.

Most people who have moved to the GTL from the LT seem to be riders who ride primarily solo, primarily shorter canyon carving rides and in less rain and cold. For that mission, I absolutely understand the advantages of the GTL. For my mission, the LT is superior and I think the new Venture may be superior as likely will be the next Wing.

The good news is that BMW appears to be seeing the writing on the wall. The 2018 GTL appears to have modified the passenger seat, modified the fairing and mirrors for better wind and rain protection, possibly increased windshield size (can't tell from pictures alone) and added reverse. However, it remains to be seen if these are sufficiently effective. And the bouncing Betty trunk appears unchanged. I am awaiting full road tests and may take the wife and ride one.

I think the dismal sales figures support the assertion that BMW really missed the mark with the GTL. I spoke with one fairly high volume dealer who hates the K1600. He said they are hard to sell, but BMW forces him to take 1600s in order to get the other popular models. Late last fall he was selling an Exclusive for $4000 off list price and it still wasn't moving. The price would have to be well below $26,000 to get my attention. Maybe $22K would get me interested, but the wife would still not be interested at any price until they address the passenger comfort issues.
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post #12 of 20 Old Jul 17th, 2017, 8:36 am
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Re: Gold Wing comfort

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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
I thought that also until I rented a GTL the first time in 2013. The specs looked superb. I fully expected to come back from Zurich ready to sell my LT and buy a GTL. Just the opposite happened. My wife did not like the GTL at all. I wasn't as negative as her, but the GTL was decidedly lacking in several key areas.

I rented a GTLE in 2015 in London and there was no significant improvement. Maybe a little less drive train slop, but still way too much. I plan to try again next year in London again for a tour of Ireland. Might be able to get a new model with the new fairing and mirrors and see if that provides tolerable rain protection.
What sort of rental money are we talking about ?.
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post #13 of 20 Old Jul 18th, 2017, 5:53 pm
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Re: Gold Wing comfort

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What sort of rental money are we talking about ?.
It ain't cheap, but worth every penny to ride in Europe. Here are the two places I have rented from. Cost varies daily with exchange rate.

Rates & prices

BMW K1600 GTLE | West Sussex Motorcycle HIre

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post #14 of 20 Old Jul 19th, 2017, 4:53 am
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Re: Gold Wing comfort

Thanks.

Strange that the UK site says nothing about mileage, which can increase the cost quite considerably.

They state that the following members of society cannot rent the bikes:

"Professional entertainers, Professional sports persons, Publicans, Nightclub owners, Owners of gaming establishments, Members of foreign military, Professional models, Fairground employees, Street and market traders, Scrap metal merchants and dealers, Diplomatic personnel.

Am surprised that Politicians aren´t on the list as well.
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post #15 of 20 Old Jul 19th, 2017, 7:00 am
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Re: Gold Wing comfort

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Thanks.

Strange that the UK site says nothing about mileage, which can increase the cost quite considerably.

They state that the following members of society cannot rent the bikes:

"Professional entertainers, Professional sports persons, Publicans, Nightclub owners, Owners of gaming establishments, Members of foreign military, Professional models, Fairground employees, Street and market traders, Scrap metal merchants and dealers, Diplomatic personnel.

Am surprised that Politicians aren´t on the list as well.
West Sussex do have a daily average limit, but it was fairly generous. I am thinking 250 miles. This would be a real problem in the US as I often do 250 before lunch on long trips, but in the UK it is not a very severe limitation. I think we rode 2600 miles in 14 days and we never limited ourselves. We would just pay the extra cost if necessary, but it is a fairly long day if you ride 250 miles in Scotland or Wales. I think we had one day of 324 miles, but that was almost entirely riding with little sightseeing. It is hard to average 40 mph in much of the UK, so you easily get 6 hours average daily riding before the limit is a concern.

The only extra cost I incurred was from a traffic camera in a work zone I didn't see the sign for. My wife saw the sign and assumed I saw it also. It was the first day of our trip and I was concentrating on traffic, keeping left and navigating and didn't see the work zone ahead sign. I saw the one beside the camera, but got slowed from 70 only to 60 before the camera flashed. The fine was surprisingly small, 20 pounds if memory serves, but those cameras are a pox on an otherwise nice riding experience in the UK. Having said that, I much prefer the Swiss and Italian alps as no such stupidity there.
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post #16 of 20 Old Jul 22nd, 2017, 5:44 pm
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Re: Gold Wing comfort

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Might be able to get a new model with the new fairing and mirrors and see if that provides tolerable rain protection.
Maybe you should go for LIT Motors. This won't ever expose you to rain and it won't ever fall.
Home | Lit Motors
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post #17 of 20 Old Jul 22nd, 2017, 5:59 pm
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Re: Gold Wing comfort

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I agree that the K1600 is improved in many areas compared to the LT. Unfortunately, it also lost ground in areas critical to my personal mission: long distance, all weather, two-up touring. I spend 90% of my miles cruising on two lanes or interstates and less than 10% canyon carving. For this use, 160 HP has no value compared to 117 as probably only 30 is being used during cruise. I ride in the rain and cold a lot in PA. The GTL soaks my hands and feet within minutes compared to hours on the LT. And my wife dislikes the seat, the "hidden" grab handles, the air buffeting and the bouncing Betty trunk.

These shortcomings far trump the advantages of the GTL for my mission. It is like Chevy coming out with a new Corvette with 100 more HP, better handling and better braking, but leaving out a heater and air conditioner. Some enthusiasts would still buy, but most would not give up that much comfort to gain a modest performance increase. That is how I view what BMW did with the GTL.

Most people who have moved to the GTL from the LT seem to be riders who ride primarily solo, primarily shorter canyon carving rides and in less rain and cold. For that mission, I absolutely understand the advantages of the GTL. For my mission, the LT is superior and I think the new Venture may be superior as likely will be the next Wing.

The good news is that BMW appears to be seeing the writing on the wall. The 2018 GTL appears to have modified the passenger seat, modified the fairing and mirrors for better wind and rain protection, possibly increased windshield size (can't tell from pictures alone) and added reverse. However, it remains to be seen if these are sufficiently effective. And the bouncing Betty trunk appears unchanged. I am awaiting full road tests and may take the wife and ride one.

I think the dismal sales figures support the assertion that BMW really missed the mark with the GTL. I spoke with one fairly high volume dealer who hates the K1600. He said they are hard to sell, but BMW forces him to take 1600s in order to get the other popular models. Late last fall he was selling an Exclusive for $4000 off list price and it still wasn't moving. The price would have to be well below $26,000 to get my attention. Maybe $22K would get me interested, but the wife would still not be interested at any price until they address the passenger comfort issues.
I agree on everything you say and I believe BMW should be reading all opinions in this forum and go for a new upgraded K1200LT, maybe even enlagre the motor a bit and make it 1500 but correct all their stupidities done on the K12LT.
This way they'd make a bike that all bikers want to buy.
Wife won't let me sell the LT for a K1600GTL. She sez "I fell fine behind you on our K1200LT".
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post #18 of 20 Old Jul 22nd, 2017, 7:41 pm
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Re: Gold Wing comfort

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Originally Posted by nikosK1200LT View Post
Maybe you should go for LIT Motors. This won't ever expose you to rain and it won't ever fall.
Home | Lit Motors
Looks as exciting as watching paint dry.

The LT is just fine comfort-wise. Should be easy for BMW to accomplish that with the GTL. After all, they did it once so we aren't talking anything ground breaking here.

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post #19 of 20 Old Jul 22nd, 2017, 7:46 pm
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Re: Gold Wing comfort

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Originally Posted by nikosK1200LT View Post
I agree on everything you say and I believe BMW should be reading all opinions in this forum and go for a new upgraded K1200LT, maybe even enlagre the motor a bit and make it 1500 but correct all their stupidities done on the K12LT.
This way they'd make a bike that all bikers want to buy.
Wife won't let me sell the LT for a K1600GTL. She sez "I fell fine behind you on our K1200LT".
I think the new Venture may well surpass the GTL in comfort, particularly for the pillion, and may well surpass the LT. I am not excited about the air cooled V-twin, but it definitely is tuned for touring. The biggest issues I see will be heat on the rider's legs and the dismal fuel mileage (34 is advertised). Otherwise, it looks pretty capable, other than apparently missing a centerstand.

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post #20 of 20 Old Jul 22nd, 2017, 9:13 pm Thread Starter
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I think the new Venture may well surpass the GTL in comfort, particularly for the pillion, and may well surpass the LT. I am not excited about the air cooled V-twin, but it definitely is tuned for touring. The biggest issues I see will be heat on the rider's legs and the dismal fuel mileage (34 is advertised). Otherwise, it looks pretty capable, other than apparently missing a centerstand.
That air cooled V-Twin will be as HOT as an Indian, which is very hot! Can't imagine why Yamaha did that, when they had an excellent V-4 with water cooling available. HD's oil cooled 107" V-Twin has got higher tech than the Yamaha!? I think HD surprised some people with that new motor. I was sure surprised.
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