high speed wobble - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 25 Old Jul 10th, 2017, 9:21 pm Thread Starter
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high speed wobble

hi guys - was out riding my 06 LT today and has developed a high speed wobble at 80 mph + I installed a set of
avon Storms last year and felt the were the best choice - since installing haven't really been in a position to run her up until this weekend (it's my 2 up bike) - when I installed the tires I took off a set of Metzler's because of the whining and the lousy wet traction. i checked the front wheel bearing and replaced them as they had 40k (miles) on them. I am guessing that it might be the front stabilizer. As I rode the road last week on my other bike and it was fine. Anybody have this issue and what was the resolution:


thanks in advance


Just to clarify this is not a low speed wheel balance issue - the whole bike actually starts wobble side to side not a vibration in the bars - Though i was going to lose it - tried it around a long sweeper it was less wobble but enuff that i backed out of it - gave the front stabilizer a check and it's not wet like it was leaking but will strip it out and check for fluid - strip her down and change the fluid to a spec or heavier fluid viscosity -

Tricky

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post #2 of 25 Old Jul 10th, 2017, 11:47 pm
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Re: high speed wobble

I have never had a wobble like that but in addition to what you have planned, I would give a good look at the rear pivot bearings on the FD and swing arm, also the FD crown bearing shake to see if there is any play in the rear. Check the rear lug bolts and recheck the front end tightness and redo the procedure of torquing the bolt and then the pinch bolts to make sure that isn't lose in any way. If it isn't balance, then something has to be lose or worn out.
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post #3 of 25 Old Jul 11th, 2017, 5:36 am
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Re: high speed wobble

separated tread

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post #4 of 25 Old Jul 11th, 2017, 10:17 am Thread Starter
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Re: high speed wobble

the tires are less that a ye old and it's not a up and down motion it side to side and goes away under 90mph starts at 80 mph and get worst as the speed increase -
separated carcass would be a violent shake from a low speed onward - running 42 front and 55 rear for pressures

thanks
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post #5 of 25 Old Jul 11th, 2017, 6:31 pm
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Re: high speed wobble

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky_dickey View Post
hi guys - was out riding my 06 LT today and has developed a high speed wobble at 80 mph + I installed a set of
avon Storms last year and felt the were the best choice - since installing haven't really been in a position to run her up until this weekend (it's my 2 up bike) - when I installed the tires I took off a set of Metzler's because of the whining and the lousy wet traction. i checked the front wheel bearing and replaced them as they had 40k (miles) on them. I am guessing that it might be the front stabilizer. As I rode the road last week on my other bike and it was fine. Anybody have this issue and what was the resolution:


thanks in advance


Just to clarify this is not a low speed wheel balance issue - the whole bike actually starts wobble side to side not a vibration in the bars - Though i was going to lose it - tried it around a long sweeper it was less wobble but enuff that i backed out of it - gave the front stabilizer a check and it's not wet like it was leaking but will strip it out and check for fluid - strip her down and change the fluid to a spec or heavier fluid viscosity -

Tricky
Are the Avons bias ply tires? I thought only Metzeler and Bridgestone made tires suitable for the 05-09 bikes. If the Avons are radials, then my money is on that as your problem.

Got a few minutes so I checked the Avon web site. They list no fitment for late model LT's. You have fitted incorrect tires so it isn't too surprising you are seeing weird dynamics at high speed. I have long suspected that BMW found some issue with radials and the new suspension geometry and thus quit specifying them.
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post #6 of 25 Old Jul 12th, 2017, 4:20 am
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Re: high speed wobble

Hi friend!!

I have THE SAME PROBLEM with the same avon tyre, only in my case is for rear avon tyre.

I feel a wobble since 120kmh...!! and i have to stop run over 140kmh.

My problem appears since I mounted the new avon rear tyre. I re-equilibrated the all wheels but the problem still persist
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post #7 of 25 Old Jul 23rd, 2017, 8:14 pm Thread Starter
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Re: high speed wobble

just to update all - i torn the stabilizer off and found no leaks - but being off i decide to experiment with the fluids - first thing there was a gap in the
hydraulic operation - i estimate 1/4 to 3/8 of a inch where there was no dampening - so i drain it out and try air tool oil (2w) and feels better and install on the bike and find it softer than before - so i drain it and try some 10 w30 and she so sfiff i can't move it on the bench - drain agian and revert to some power steering fluid and solid on the bench install and find with the leverage of the bars a little firmer - test ride and she good to 180 kmph- tey some figure 8's and the steering is fine and no issues with slow speed maneuvers - IMHO next time i pull it down i would go with 10-15 viscosity fluid - i did not take the rear tire off and install my spare Metz but i will test again when i have a long Copper free area and maybe max out the bike on my own - keep you all informed
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post #8 of 25 Old Jul 24th, 2017, 2:35 am
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Re: high speed wobble

all I can say is good luck trying to re invent the wheel it's your life, If it were me I would simply just buy a new one. I still don't believe that it is the cause of your wobble however, the steering damper is there to help stop a tank slapper and get back control of the bike's steering so to speak, it will not be the cause there is something else wrong.
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Regards Linton
From the land of Kangaroo's and Koalas
and no koalas are not Bears



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2010 Suzuki GSX 1250FA (the Wifes)
2004 Cub Kamparoo Sprint
My Toys
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post #9 of 25 Old Jul 24th, 2017, 5:28 am
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Re: high speed wobble

I think the standard refill weight is 5W or you could use 7.5W if you wanted a little stiffer damping but if you go too high, you may end up blowing the seals out. As stated, you probably haven't really fixed the issue, only put a band-aid on it. Good luck.
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post #10 of 25 Old Jul 24th, 2017, 4:52 pm
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Re: high speed wobble

I also bought the HyperPro adjustable steering damper.
The problem does not go away. It's a design problem that manifest itself with worn tires.


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post #11 of 25 Old Jul 24th, 2017, 10:26 pm Thread Starter
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Re: high speed wobble

this is the Avon I put on
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post #12 of 25 Old Jul 24th, 2017, 10:40 pm
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Re: high speed wobble

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky_dickey View Post
just to update all - i torn the stabilizer off and found no leaks - but being off i decide to experiment with the fluids - first thing there was a gap in the
hydraulic operation - i estimate 1/4 to 3/8 of a inch where there was no dampening - so i drain it out and try air tool oil (2w) and feels better and install on the bike and find it softer than before - so i drain it and try some 10 w30 and she so sfiff i can't move it on the bench - drain agian and revert to some power steering fluid and solid on the bench install and find with the leverage of the bars a little firmer - test ride and she good to 180 kmph- tey some figure 8's and the steering is fine and no issues with slow speed maneuvers - IMHO next time i pull it down i would go with 10-15 viscosity fluid - i did not take the rear tire off and install my spare Metz but i will test again when i have a long Copper free area and maybe max out the bike on my own - keep you all informed
The steering damper won't help that problem. It is for really high acceleration motion such as a tank slapper. Your problem is likely due to incorrect tire choice. Avon makes no tire suitable for an 05 or later LT. Check their web site.
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post #13 of 25 Old Jul 24th, 2017, 10:44 pm
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Re: high speed wobble

Quote:
Originally Posted by mondrage View Post
I also bought the HyperPro adjustable steering damper.
The problem does not go away. It's a design problem that manifest itself with worn tires.


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My LT does not do this so it isn't a design problem. Installing tires not specified for the model is user error, not designer error.
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post #14 of 25 Old Jul 24th, 2017, 10:51 pm Thread Starter
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Re: high speed wobble

i have like 3ooo kms on these tire installed last year - hate the metzlers in the damp bike nearly went over with amin throttle roll on hence the change - couldn;t find the bridgestones and wasn't too sure about the shinkos - a mate just installed the shinkos going to have to try it out and see what the handle like - might have to go that was - did the stabilizer and seems much better have yet to go for a long hard ride - but a quick test ride on the highway I was able to hit 110 mph and no notice of a shimmy wobble - maybe it's the radial tire that causes it -
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post #15 of 25 Old Jul 26th, 2017, 8:28 pm
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Re: high speed wobble

Hi Tricky_dickey

I tried the Avon, all within the specs for the LT, re-inf and load, and had the exact same problem. Wobbeling started at about 50 MPH and got worse at higher speeds. At about 70 MPH I didn't dare go faster.
Inc/decreasing tire pressure din't remove the wobble, but a new set of tires, Bridgestones, did. Rock steady on the Metzelers before the Avons, and rock steady on the Bridgesones after.
I never got at reply from Avon or their dealer in Denmark.

/Mike
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post #16 of 25 Old Nov 24th, 2017, 11:38 pm
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I had the same issue with the AVON STORM 2 tires. No matter what pressure I ran... Even bought a Hyperpro steering damper. Increasing the rear preload helped a little. Anything 80+ and I was hanging on for life. Problem 99% solved with new Dunlop Roadsmart III tires (and a back to stock shaped windscreen).
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post #17 of 25 Old Nov 25th, 2017, 10:33 am
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Re: high speed wobble

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Originally Posted by Orcak12lt View Post
I had the same issue with the AVON STORM 2 tires. No matter what pressure I ran... Even bought a Hyperpro steering damper. Increasing the rear preload helped a little. Anything 80+ and I was hanging on for life. Problem 99% solved with new Dunlop Roadsmart III tires (and a back to stock shaped windscreen).
What year LT?

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post #18 of 25 Old Nov 25th, 2017, 11:16 am
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Re: high speed wobble

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What year LT?
He has a 2006 and of course BMW does not recommend radials for the 05 & up. Could be why.

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post #19 of 25 Old Nov 25th, 2017, 1:42 pm
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Re: high speed wobble

I doubt it has anything to do with the year LT. It did the same on my 2000 LT with Avon radial tires.
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post #20 of 25 Old Nov 25th, 2017, 4:51 pm
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Quote:
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What year LT?
01
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post #21 of 25 Old Nov 27th, 2017, 4:48 pm
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Re: high speed wobble

Does the Storm have the properly-reinforced rear sidewall? When I bought my first LT it had an unreinforced Metzler 880 on the rear and I thought the frame had a ball joint in the middle of it.

Otherwise: Cannot recommend a Wilburs custom-built front shock for the LT too highly. Dramatic improvement over stock and significantly better that the Olins for that bike -- and adjustable.

UH
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post #22 of 25 Old Dec 2nd, 2017, 1:04 am
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Re: high speed wobble

This subject has always been one of opinions. My current rear tire on my 2000 is the Avon Storm 3D. I belong to the IBA and have about 4000 miles on the rear tire and love it. The Metzler scared me.

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post #23 of 25 Old Dec 2nd, 2017, 2:24 pm
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Re: high speed wobble

My new set of Avon Storm 3D's did get better over time.
Still don't have that warm & fuzzy at high speed though.

Started this thread back when I installed a new set. Mix avon storm 3d xm front me888 rear?

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post #24 of 25 Old Mar 30th, 2019, 6:33 am
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Re: high speed wobble

I know I'm late, but wondering if there's been any resolution. I have an '02 that had ME 888s that I replaced with Avon 3ds. Rode from Philly to Baltimore on the new tires and kept feeling the wobble like I was in a wind storm once I hit into the 70 plus mph range. Just glad to know that I'm not crazy after reading this post. I rode the bike from Minnesota last year when I bought it on some worn out ME880s for the first couple of hundred miles until I could get to first dealer with a set that fit and it was no where as bad as what I felt yesterday on the NEW Avons. Definitely like the improvement on the curves, but don't think I can deal with the wobble. Any new advice out there other than change to Bridgestone?
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post #25 of 25 Old Apr 2nd, 2019, 12:08 pm
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Re: high speed wobble

The wobble, from my research at the time its always present in all motorcycles.
However, when conditions arise that amplify the wobble frequency, you get a full-on tank slapper.

When new, the Metzelers are just fine.
When the tire pressures are off, or when the front tire starts to be clearly worn unevenly from the road camber, then the tire stars to oscillate from side to side.
That makes the rest of the bike move in the opposite direction, the gyroscopic effect straightens the wheel, the wear moves it, and the cycle repeats.
When worn, and the front tire is worn, the wobble happens when decelerating, at about 80kph.
However at that point I can make it happen at any time by just jerking the handlebars.
I have a hyperpro damper, so no violent tank slapper but the wobble is big and present.

To make a long story short.
Check your tire pressure. 36/42psi.
Replace the front tire when unevenly worn or the wobble starts.

And Id also do your stanchions. Im venturing to assume that if uneven they might introduce a side to side motion.

My 2 pence.


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BMW K1200R: "Drophammer" 2006
BMW R1200GS 2008
BMW K1200S 2007
Suzuki DR-Z400E 2000
Sachs MadAss FY125-20
BMW R1200R 2009 (in my stable, thinking about it...)


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