BMW Strikes Again - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 17 Old Jun 21st, 2017, 5:10 pm Thread Starter
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BMW Strikes Again

First BMW shorted me two exhaust gaskets so I am waiting on those. Then I pick up my clutch Housing Cover and Pressure Plate today and when I get home and remove the preservative oil I see this on the housing cover.

Crap I was already to start putting the old girl back together. Hopefully BMW will over night the replacement and I'll have it by Friday.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #2 of 17 Old Jun 21st, 2017, 5:19 pm
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Re: BMW Strikes Again

wow good pickup John, I would imagine the crack could be easily missed. You just don't expect that in a new part !!!
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post #3 of 17 Old Jun 21st, 2017, 8:56 pm
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Re: BMW Strikes Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
First BMW shorted me two exhaust gaskets so I am waiting on those. Then I pick up my clutch Housing Cover and Pressure Plate today and when I get home and remove the preservative oil I see this on the housing cover.

Crap I was already to start putting the old girl back together. Hopefully BMW will over night the replacement and I'll have it by Friday.
It is only a tiny crack.

I am feeling better now about the work I had Southland food on my clutch. Their QA seems on par with BMW ... they both suck.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
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1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #4 of 17 Old Jun 21st, 2017, 10:16 pm
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Re: BMW Strikes Again

Well that sucks... Lovely quality control.

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post #5 of 17 Old Jun 22nd, 2017, 6:12 am
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Re: BMW Strikes Again

It is hard to see how something like that would make it past QC but then again, where in shipping would something like that happen????


Bummer

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #6 of 17 Old Jun 22nd, 2017, 9:36 am
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Re: BMW Strikes Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
It is only a tiny crack.

I am feeling better now about the work I had Southland food on my clutch. Their QA seems on par with BMW ... they both suck.
Your issue was a crying shame Matt

It could only be detected after you reassembled everything and tried to use it. At least John saw it before assembly.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #7 of 17 Old Jun 22nd, 2017, 10:55 am
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Re: BMW Strikes Again

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Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
Your issue was a crying shame Matt

It could only be detected after you reassembled everything and tried to use it. At least John saw it before assembly.
I actually had two issues. One that John "Eagle eyes" Zeiler saw on a picture (over set rivet on the disk) and then the apparent out of perpendicular machining of one or both contact surfaces. I may never know for sure as I have no plans to tear down the bike to inspect the parts.


Now that I've gotten used to making harder launches, my shudder problem is barely detectable. I only notice it when trying to inch ahead in the garage. If I lightly engage the clutch at idle RPM, then it will shudder. If I rev to 1500-1800 before engaging the clutch and let it engage reasonably quickly, things are quite smooth. That just isn't my norm for driving a standard shift vehicle so I have to remember to do that.

My norm is to engage the clutch to the friction point and then simultaneously add in throttle and clutch so as to maintain the RPM just slightly above idle (1200 on the LT) until the clutch is engaged fully. On my LT, I now do much the opposite. I rev to 1500+ RPM and then engage the clutch while holding nearly constant throttle. For a normal start on the level, that allows the RPM to sag back to 1200 or so at the full engagement point so as to not heat the clutch excessively. This pretty much completely avoids the shudder, at least the audible part. I can still feel some variation as the clutch engages, but someone else probably wouldn't notice. I know it is there, so I notice the slight variation during engagement. I can then motor away with throttle. Easier to do than describe.
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2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #8 of 17 Old Jun 22nd, 2017, 12:51 pm
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Re: BMW Strikes Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
I actually had two issues. One that John "Eagle eyes" Zeiler saw on a picture (over set rivet on the disk) and then the apparent out of perpendicular machining of one or both contact surfaces. I may never know for sure as I have no plans to tear down the bike to inspect the parts.


Now that I've gotten used to making harder launches, my shudder problem is barely detectable. I only notice it when trying to inch ahead in the garage. If I lightly engage the clutch at idle RPM, then it will shudder. If I rev to 1500-1800 before engaging the clutch and let it engage reasonably quickly, things are quite smooth. That just isn't my norm for driving a standard shift vehicle so I have to remember to do that.

My norm is to engage the clutch to the friction point and then simultaneously add in throttle and clutch so as to maintain the RPM just slightly above idle (1200 on the LT) until the clutch is engaged fully. On my LT, I now do much the opposite. I rev to 1500+ RPM and then engage the clutch while holding nearly constant throttle. For a normal start on the level, that allows the RPM to sag back to 1200 or so at the full engagement point so as to not heat the clutch excessively. This pretty much completely avoids the shudder, at least the audible part. I can still feel some variation as the clutch engages, but someone else probably wouldn't notice. I know it is there, so I notice the slight variation during engagement. I can then motor away with throttle. Easier to do than describe.
Matt, I just read an article that might change your mind about going back in.

https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread...e-Wear-Pattern

I know you lubed those splines well and I remember looking at the pictures of just that when you did it and commented on it. After reading this thread, I can see how a odd bad wear pattern can be created from misaligned plates and shafts. My concern in your case is that additional movement from misalignment might more quickly push the spline lube away from the affected areas. Just an FYI for you to read and think about.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #9 of 17 Old Jun 22nd, 2017, 5:55 pm
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Re: BMW Strikes Again

I'm not sure there is quality control on every part. It is more likely a few random selected parts from each batch. I had to return mine because of machine chatter marks on the disc surface.
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post #10 of 17 Old Jun 22nd, 2017, 6:45 pm
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Re: BMW Strikes Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
Matt, I just read an article that might change your mind about going back in.

https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread...e-Wear-Pattern

I know you lubed those splines well and I remember looking at the pictures of just that when you did it and commented on it. After reading this thread, I can see how a odd bad wear pattern can be created from misaligned plates and shafts. My concern in your case is that additional movement from misalignment might more quickly push the spline lube away from the affected areas. Just an FYI for you to read and think about.
I have no doubt this can cause extra wear on clutch hub and transmission splines, but I'm not concerned enough to tear it down again. Next time it needs that I likely will just part it out. I am not going to make huge investments of time or money into a bike more than 10 years old.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #11 of 17 Old Jun 28th, 2017, 7:08 pm Thread Starter
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Re: BMW Strikes Again

Well the GOOD clutch housing finally showed up on Tuesday after I checked out of the Government Office and the Corporate Office. So I am now officially retired. Got the clutch installed and finished pressing the new bearings on the shafts and assembling the transmission. Once the anaerobic sealer has cured I'll fill and leak check it.

I added a tell tale mod to the weep hole. I never found it very easy to inspect anyway so I never did. I added a short length of 5/32 aluminum tubing to the hole affixed with some J B Weld. Then added clear tubing which I will cut to a good length for inspection. I will stuff some loose cotton in the end of the tubing to let it breath but keep dirt out. Should be easy to look at it from time to time.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #12 of 17 Old Jun 28th, 2017, 9:54 pm
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Re: BMW Strikes Again

I know a Russian educated MechEngr who always maintained that in Russia parts that could not pass inspection were relegated to spare parts. He agreed that we are dealing with radial misalignment on these clutch/input shaft spline failures. It isn't a complicated mode of failure once you realize how radially stiff the center web in the clutch is.
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post #13 of 17 Old Jun 28th, 2017, 10:14 pm
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Re: BMW Strikes Again

Congratulations on your retirement. Hope this will let you ride even more.
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post #14 of 17 Old Jul 2nd, 2017, 9:43 pm Thread Starter
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Re: BMW Strikes Again

Well the old girl is all back together and I'll have to say I did a careful job of checking the manual on every thing as I put all the pieces back together. Except the fuel lines. I had them reversed and did not notice it until it was time to hook up the fuel tank. They just did not line up right. All I had to back track was remove the fuel rail again to get enough access to swap the lines back where they should have been. Other than that she purred like a kitten once she started.

Heading to breakfast two up tomorrow then on to Natchez Trace Parkway Thursday and then on to Houston on Friday. It will feel good to ride again after all this wrenching.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #15 of 17 Old Jul 3rd, 2017, 8:11 am
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Re: BMW Strikes Again

Enjoy your ride and retirement John, you deserve it!!!

"If at first you don't succeed... well, so much for skydiving."

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post #16 of 17 Old Jul 3rd, 2017, 9:45 am
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Re: BMW Strikes Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
Well the old girl is all back together and I'll have to say I did a careful job of checking the manual on every thing as I put all the pieces back together. Except the fuel lines. I had them reversed and did not notice it until it was time to hook up the fuel tank. They just did not line up right. All I had to back track was remove the fuel rail again to get enough access to swap the lines back where they should have been. Other than that she purred like a kitten once she started.

Heading to breakfast two up tomorrow then on to Natchez Trace Parkway Thursday and then on to Houston on Friday. It will feel good to ride again after all this wrenching.
I was extra cautious with my clutch job as it was my first time into an LT. I taped and marked all connections that had any chance to be reversed.

I was very diligent also in using the BMW manual as a checklist (the pilot side of me) and marked off each step ad I went. I still hit the starter with some trepidation after completely reassembly. I honestly expected it to not start and have to troubleshoot something. I was greatly relieved when she fired after just a few seconds of cranking and settled into a smooth idle.

Great feeling isn't it?
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2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #17 of 17 Old Jul 4th, 2017, 1:48 pm Thread Starter
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Re: BMW Strikes Again

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I was greatly relieved when she fired after just a few seconds of cranking and settled into a smooth idle.

Great feeling isn't it?
Yes it is. Just glad I was able to re-route the hoses without too much tear down. The ride to breakfast was amazing. I actually was able to place all three balance marks on the clutch bit 120 degrees apart this time and it make the bike even smoother. Also the like new injectors helped as well. The transmission shifts butter smooth again and is smooth and quite. Just glad I found the bearing before it came apart like a few I have rebuilt. Ready for a road trip!!
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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