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post #1 of 12 Old Nov 24th, 2006, 10:44 am Thread Starter
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Valve adjustment reassembly

I have put in my new valve buckets and am in the re-assembly process and think I might have gotten things in a pickle. In making sure I was at BTDC on piston #1, I had turned the wheel and noticed that the sprocket ties that I installed had moved up some.

Now, in trying to reinstall the cam sprockets, I am slightly off on the bottom sprocket for the pin and am about 1/4 rotation off on the top sprocket. Does this mean I have got the timing off now and will need to pull the timing chain cover? If I have got the timing off, is their any way to get in back in timing without removing the timing chain cover?

James

James Hart
2002 LTE Titan Silver
1992 Yamaha Virago 750 (given to friend)
River Oaks, TX
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post #2 of 12 Old Nov 24th, 2006, 11:01 am
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Getting cam chain sprockets back on the shaft

If I understand your situation, you have the camchain still secured to the cam sprockets with zip ties? Correct?
And your goal is to get the sprockets back onto the camshaft with the keyways properly aligned?

I understand BMW has a tool for doing this but this can be done without special tools. Here's my technique. Insert the bolts that secure the sprockets to the camshaft and gently snug them down. Don't worry that the keyways are not aligned. Then turn the camshaft using an open end wrench on the flattened area toward the rear of the camshafts. Turn the camshaft in the direction needed to line up the keyway. The slight pressure of the bolt will cause the sprocket to pop into place. Then torque the bolts to spec.

Did I explain this well enough? The technique is quick and simple. Easy does it.

BTW the manual calls for cylinder #1 to be about 90degrees before TDC during removal of camshafts. Check this before rotating camshafts with the journals tightened down and the sprockets disconnected. If you moved the rear wheel enough to bring one of the pistons to TDC you run the risk of a valve hitting the piston during rotation of the cam shaft.

Last edited by CharlieVT; Nov 24th, 2006 at 11:15 am.
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post #3 of 12 Old Nov 24th, 2006, 11:21 am Thread Starter
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Valve adjustment

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieVT
If I understand your situation, you have the camchain still secured to the cam sprockets with zip ties? Correct?
And your goal is to get the sprockets back onto the camshaft with the keyways properly aligned?

I understand BMW has a tool for doing this but this can be done without special tools. Here's my technique. Insert the bolts that secure the sprockets to the camshaft and gently snug them down. Don't worry that the keyways are not aligned. Then turn the camshaft using an open end wrench on the flattened area toward the rear of the camshafts. Turn the camshaft in the direction needed to line up the keyway. The slight pressure of the bolt will cause the sprocket to pop into place. Then torque the bolts to spec.

Did I explain this well enough? The technique is quick and simple. Easy does it.

BTW the manual calls for cylinder #1 to be about 90degrees before TDC during removal of camshafts. Check this before rotating camshafts with the journals tightened down and the sprockets disconnected. If you moved the rear wheel enough to bring one of the pistons to TDC you run the risk of a valve hitting the piston during rotation of the cam shaft.
Thanks Charlie for the response.

Yes, you are correct. The zip ties are securely on the sprockets and I have made sure the Cylinder #1 is in the correct position. I am going to try your advice and I'm hoping it will work for me. Will let you know how it goes.

Regards,
James

James Hart
2002 LTE Titan Silver
1992 Yamaha Virago 750 (given to friend)
River Oaks, TX

Last edited by beemer100; Nov 24th, 2006 at 11:23 am. Reason: Add words
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post #4 of 12 Old Nov 24th, 2006, 12:29 pm Thread Starter
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Valve adjustment reassembly

When trying to reinstall the sprockets, the chain seems to be too tight to allow the free placement of the sprockets onto the cams.

I did install the drill bit into the hole and at some point in the process, I removed it and put it back in. Could this cause the chain to prohibit the installation of the sprockets?

Frustrated. . . and thankful for the advice,

James

James Hart
2002 LTE Titan Silver
1992 Yamaha Virago 750 (given to friend)
River Oaks, TX
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post #5 of 12 Old Nov 24th, 2006, 2:07 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beemer100
When trying to reinstall the sprockets, the chain seems to be too tight to allow the free placement of the sprockets onto the cams.

I did install the drill bit into the hole and at some point in the process, I removed it and put it back in. Could this cause the chain to prohibit the installation of the sprockets?

Frustrated. . . and thankful for the advice,

James
Did you press the lower chain guide down with a long pry bar/screwdriver until it bottomed out before putting the pin in?

It sounds like your tensioner is in an up position, and the chain guide not down to relieve pressure on the chain to make it loose. If the tensioner is down, there is slack enough in the chain to allow you to slip the sprockets back onto the correctly positioned cams easily. You may have to use a wrench on the hex portion of the cams, about 2/3 of the way back from the front of the engine to "rock" the cams back and forth until the alignment pin lines up correctly.

DO NOT use the sprocket bolt to push the sprocket back on the cam!!!!

You should be able to easily push the sprockets on over the sprocket boss and alignment pin until it is seated, by hand only, THEN put the bolts in. I have seen a couple of damaged sprockets/alignment pins, and so have others. If it does not slip on easily by hand, STOP and figure out why.

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post #6 of 12 Old Nov 24th, 2006, 2:16 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
Did you press the lower chain guide down with a long pry bar/screwdriver until it bottomed out before putting the pin in?

It sounds like your tensioner is in an up position, and the chain guide not down to relieve pressure on the chain to make it loose. If the tensioner is down, there is slack enough in the chain to allow you to slip the sprockets back onto the correctly positioned cams easily. You may have to use a wrench on the hex portion of the cams, about 2/3 of the way back from the front of the engine to "rock" the cams back and forth until the alignment pin lines up correctly.

DO NOT use the sprocket bolt to push the sprocket back on the cam!!!!

You should be able to easily push the sprockets on over the sprocket boss and alignment pin until it is seated, by hand only, THEN put the bolts in. I have seen a couple of damaged sprockets/alignment pins, and so have others. If it does not slip on easily by hand, STOP and figure out why.
I have experienced this in the past and David's suggestions are right on. I thought I had put the pin in far enough but it wasn't. Once I had manually pressed against the guide the pin went in further and all was well.
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post #7 of 12 Old Nov 24th, 2006, 3:00 pm Thread Starter
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Valve adjustment

Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
Did you press the lower chain guide down with a long pry bar/screwdriver until it bottomed out before putting the pin in?

It sounds like your tensioner is in an up position, and the chain guide not down to relieve pressure on the chain to make it loose. If the tensioner is down, there is slack enough in the chain to allow you to slip the sprockets back onto the correctly positioned cams easily. You may have to use a wrench on the hex portion of the cams, about 2/3 of the way back from the front of the engine to "rock" the cams back and forth until the alignment pin lines up correctly.

DO NOT use the sprocket bolt to push the sprocket back on the cam!!!!

You should be able to easily push the sprockets on over the sprocket boss and alignment pin until it is seated, by hand only, THEN put the bolts in. I have seen a couple of damaged sprockets/alignment pins, and so have others. If it does not slip on easily by hand, STOP and figure out why.
Dave, I feel that (the tensioner) is probably my problem. I don't know if I ever got the chain relaxed. I need to work further on the chain tensioner to be able to have adequate clearance.

I will make mental note to make sure that clearance is such that I simply place the sprockets onto the cam and not use any force.

Once again, thanks.

Regards,
James

James Hart
2002 LTE Titan Silver
1992 Yamaha Virago 750 (given to friend)
River Oaks, TX
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post #8 of 12 Old Nov 24th, 2006, 3:40 pm Thread Starter
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Talking Valve adjustment

Okay, I gave my large screwdriver the "guts" and was able to relieve the tension in the chain with the drill bit and am in the process of getting the alignment pins aligned correctly.

From an earlier post today regarding valve adjustment, I was reading the post about making sure all the valves are aligned properly. From what I understand, I need to make sure the grooves at the end of both cam's are perpendicular to the head surface with #1 piston at TDC. If this is the case, is their any leeway of degrees from which that groove can/will deviate and still be indicative of a properly alligned/timed engine.

Regards,

James

James Hart
2002 LTE Titan Silver
1992 Yamaha Virago 750 (given to friend)
River Oaks, TX
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post #9 of 12 Old Nov 24th, 2006, 4:18 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beemer100
Okay, I gave my large screwdriver the "guts" and was able to relieve the tension in the chain with the drill bit and am in the process of getting the alignment pins aligned correctly.

From an earlier post today regarding valve adjustment, I was reading the post about making sure all the valves are aligned properly. From what I understand, I need to make sure the grooves at the end of both cam's are perpendicular to the head surface with #1 piston at TDC. If this is the case, is their any leeway of degrees from which that groove can/will deviate and still be indicative of a properly alligned/timed engine.

Regards,

James
You can eyeball the slots being perpindicular, or if you are not good at seeing angular relationship use a small square to check it. There may be a couple degrees variation but not much more than that. After you get the sprockets on and the tensioner released, check the slots, then rotate the engine forward at least one full revolution, preferably two, and re-check. If the slots are correctly perpindicular to the head surface, you are good to go.

edited: Of course you have to be sure the number one cylinder cam lobes are pointing generaly out toward you. The slots on the cam rears will be perpindicular to the head TWICE in a revolution of the cams.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.

Last edited by dshealey; Nov 24th, 2006 at 4:25 pm.
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post #10 of 12 Old Nov 24th, 2006, 6:29 pm Thread Starter
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Smile Valve adjustment successfully complete

Thank you David again. I have checked the timing and it is good. I am a happy camper big time!!

Thanks especially to your help and others, my bike is on it's way to completion.

Regards and best wishes,

James

James Hart
2002 LTE Titan Silver
1992 Yamaha Virago 750 (given to friend)
River Oaks, TX
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post #11 of 12 Old Nov 25th, 2006, 8:38 am
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congrats....

James, on finishing the project. Glad my "advice" didn't get you in trouble. My suggestion of using the sprocket retaining bolts to line up the keyways has worked for me several times, I find it a quick and easy way to align the keyways; the operant phrase in there was "gently snug them down" but it does require a certain amount of "wrench sense", something gained from years of mucking things up.
David's experience and advice is invaluable and may have saved you from trouble.



If it doesn't fit, don't force it,
get a bigger hammer.
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post #12 of 12 Old Nov 25th, 2006, 9:05 am Thread Starter
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Valve adjustment successfully complete

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieVT
James, on finishing the project. Glad my "advice" didn't get you in trouble. My suggestion of using the sprocket retaining bolts to line up the keyways has worked for me several times, I find it a quick and easy way to align the keyways; the operant phrase in there was "gently snug them down" but it does require a certain amount of "wrench sense", something gained from years of mucking things up.
David's experience and advice is invaluable and may have saved you from trouble.



If it doesn't fit, don't force it,
get a bigger hammer.
I appreciate your help Charlie. I am still in the learning phases and the rocking of the camshaft was the way I had to align the pins. Worked like a charm. David's advice regarding the tensioner was right on and it made the sprocket insertion a snap.

I can't say enough good things about this website and members. I know had I not found it, I would not have bought the LT and enjoyed its glorious ride.

Even though doing your own wrenching can be extremely frustrating, I gain a strange sense of peace when I do it. I imagine others feel the same.

Thanks again and ride safe,

James

James Hart
2002 LTE Titan Silver
1992 Yamaha Virago 750 (given to friend)
River Oaks, TX
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