The New LT - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 27 Old Nov 18th, 2006, 9:28 pm Thread Starter
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The New LT

Disclaimer: The following is all speculation.

We were talking to a highly placed BMW Corp. dood at the Ft. Worth IMS show today. He was saying that R&D of a new LT, with a six cylinder motor(!) would cost 90 million Euros. Now, the dollar to Euro, and for BMW to make their vig, would leave a spanking, brand new designed LT at well over 30 thou U.S.

So, a brand spanking new designed LT isn't even in the works, much less speculated or even in design. So it's speculated.

He also said that any new model can no longer be kept secret anymore with the advent of cell phone camera's and instant communications. Africa? Nope. Canary Islands? Nope. Nowhere is safe for a road test anymore, though we offered. Prolly why we haven't seen any type of LT spy shots.

There was hintings of a GT based LT. Set bags, redesigned ergo's, com and radio/satellite with ASC, Zenon and other toys unamed. A speculated weight of 100 lbs less than the LT.

I can see this as the GT is the perfect bike.



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post #2 of 27 Old Nov 19th, 2006, 5:41 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
Disclaimer: The following is all speculation.

We were talking to a highly placed BMW Corp. dood at the Ft. Worth IMS show today. He was saying that R&D of a new LT, with a six cylinder motor(!) would cost 90 million Euros. Now, the dollar to Euro, and for BMW to make their vig, would leave a spanking, brand new designed LT at well over 30 thou U.S.

So, a brand spanking new designed LT isn't even in the works, much less speculated or even in design. So it's speculated..
Hey Grif,
Did he "speculate" on how much it would cost BMW to *not* design & develop a new top end tourer? Just "speculating" that other manufacturers are going to keep developing their lines............<shrug>

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post #3 of 27 Old Nov 19th, 2006, 7:06 am
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Cost of the "unchanged"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinks
Hey Grif,
Did he "speculate" on how much it would cost BMW to *not* design & develop a new top end tourer? Just "speculating" that other manufacturers are going to keep developing their lines............<shrug>
I agree, with the LT being one heck of a bike in the moutains and on flat-lands, I would hate to see me go out and buy a non-BMW! I might could keep a few bills in my pocket though! And maybe find a dealer who appreciates my business!

With the new KAW Concours coming out it sure does look sweet! ABS, electrical windscreen.......

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post #4 of 27 Old Nov 19th, 2006, 7:21 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinks
Hey Grif,
Did he "speculate" on how much it would cost BMW to *not* design & develop a new top end tourer? Just "speculating" that other manufacturers are going to keep developing their lines............<shrug>
He speculated the GT platform would take care of it



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post #5 of 27 Old Nov 19th, 2006, 7:37 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinks
Hey Grif,
Did he "speculate" on how much it would cost BMW to *not* design & develop a new top end tourer? Just "speculating" that other manufacturers are going to keep developing their lines............<shrug>

I see you on a GS soon! Just blind fold your BETTER Half HAHAHAHAHAHAHA



seriously though, if they redesign the ergo's and have solved the twitching feeling of the GT that you felt, it might make a great bike, although I still think they could lighten it some more, not much though. One thing I remembered after buying this GSA is I would not want any lighter of a bike than it (500 ish lbs would be the lightest I think I would enjoy) the wind just gets to be allot of work for long days in the saddle, coming back to N GA from FL last week, I had terrible weather traveling back, very high gusting winds from every direction it seemed, any lighter of a bike it would have been a PITA to ride in

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post #6 of 27 Old Nov 19th, 2006, 8:34 am
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I have been a little afraid of that.

I really liked my test ride on the GT (other than the brakes), but as much fun as it was, mucho power, handled nicely, it just ain't no LT!

A new LT based on it though, could probably work, but not sure they would not be abandoning the top luxury tourer market to the GoldWing.

Who knows though, a new design on the GT frame with only 100 pounds less weight than the current one just may include the features we have become so used to.

On my 20 minute GT test ride, at the end I was noticing a seat issue, so know that I would not want to take off on a 1K day with one! I never had to change the seat on the LT, so to be required to do so on a new bike is a downer for me.

With the power the GT has, a longer wheelbase like the LT would do wonders to smooth out the ride too. I noticed a much "choppier" ride on the GT than the LT, probably due to the short wheelbase and lighter weight.

Hey, the GT is a great bike though! Don Arthur has one on order to set up for the '07 IBR! He is gonna have to do some serious re-conditioning, so hope he gets it sooner than the January delivery he said he is expecting.

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post #7 of 27 Old Nov 19th, 2006, 8:48 am
 
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On the up side, there are enough garage queens out there to keep a guy in nice, low mileage LT's for a decade or more...
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post #8 of 27 Old Nov 20th, 2006, 5:54 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmgs
I see you on a GS soon! Just blind fold your BETTER Half HAHAHAHAHAHAHA



seriously though, if they redesign the ergo's and have solved the twitching feeling of the GT that you felt, it might make a great bike, although I still think they could lighten it some more, not much though.
Tom
Blind fold her?! Hell, you were only allowed in here with that ugly assed thing when she wasn't home!............8^)

I *kinda* agree with you & Grif. I think the GT has great potential, & the one I got to ride was probably a poor example. However, it's not in the same category as the large touring bikes from other manufacturers. If BMW wants to give up that part of the market, that's fine. Not being too dedicated to any single marquee, I don't much care. I had hoped BMW would be a little more customer oriented, but we all know their stand on that issue.

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post #9 of 27 Old Nov 20th, 2006, 6:49 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinks
If BMW wants to give up that part of the market, that's fine. Not being too dedicated to any single marquee, I don't much care. I had hoped BMW would be a little more customer oriented, but we all know their stand on that issue.
I really don't see the heartache. It's a stonking motor! A new fairing, seats, ergos and toys.... shoot and score. It will even pull a trailer with leetle effort. Dare I mention that there's more room for pillion than the LT?



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post #10 of 27 Old Nov 20th, 2006, 9:41 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
I really don't see the heartache. It's a stonking motor! A new fairing, seats, ergos and toys.... shoot and score. It will even pull a trailer with leetle effort. Dare I mention that there's more room for pillion than the LT?
As nice as the GT is, it is still a "Sport Tourer", and nothing will change that. The LT is often in the mix when someone is looking at Goldwings and Ultras, but that same market segment will not likely be looking at the GT, nor the FJR or new Kaw 1400.

The people in the market for a Lux tourer expect size, fixed bags, and all the additional items such as a good sound system etc. The GT is not in that league.

I would love to have a new GT, but I do not really compare it to the LT. It does not have the same looks, and that top case sitting on top just does not look as good to many as the nicely faired in fixed one. It looks exactly like what it is, a pop on addition to a sport tourer. However, the ability to pop them off and carry them in at a hotel stop is nice.

I am hoping BMW does come out with a new LT based on the GT, but a full lux tourer as the LT now is. If the don't, they WILL be abandoning the 'Wing/Ultra market segment in which they have been a pretty good player with the LT.

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post #11 of 27 Old Nov 20th, 2006, 10:26 am
 
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For a HE11 of alot less money, BMW can take the current LT and refine it more.

Think of the Ultra, upgrades to the engine, chassis, and ergos and it's been sold for many many years.

I think what most LT riders want is refinements anyhow as the bike is pretty darn good as is.

These would help:

More comfy seats for long distance riding would be nice.

Let the Japanese or J&M redesign the audio system.

Make the footpegs adjustable.

Tweak the motor a tiny bit more for extra power. ( I have not ridden the second edition engine yet)

Fortify the final drive for better longevity.

Build the engine and drive train with seals that are refined so they don't fail for many years.

Pre-drill the clutch slave.

Keep the price fair and competetive.

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post #12 of 27 Old Nov 20th, 2006, 11:32 am
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I am missing something here. If you take the GT engine, stretch the frame a bit to make it smoother and more ergo friendly, add some options like audio, why wouldn't it be a great luxo tourer. I know I would interested. Ron
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post #13 of 27 Old Nov 20th, 2006, 12:52 pm
 
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All I DO know is that the next 18 months or so is an interesting time for a current LT-owner whose looking to update. I agree with David that the GT is really not an LT replacement...even though several of us now have replaced our LTs with a GT. The GT has amazing sport abilities. I ride it quicker and more confident than my Ninja ZX-11! But it also has really great touring abilities...for those that are able to live with the ergos, I suppose. And those who really love the ergos of the LT, GW, and Ultra probably won't give a bike like the GT their time of day.

I'd love to be a fly on the way in some of those meetings that BMW is holding. Preferably, one that speaks German.
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post #14 of 27 Old Nov 20th, 2006, 1:18 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmgs
I see you on a GS soon! Just blind fold your BETTER Half HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

... the wind just gets to be allot of work for long days in the saddle, coming back to N GA from FL last week, I had terrible weather traveling back, very high gusting winds from every direction it seemed, any lighter of a bike it would have been a PITA to ride in ...Tom
Tom,

The GT shape is better at slicing thru wind, IMHO. We get our share of wind here coming off the big lake (12th largest lake in the world). Being snuggled up against Canada, that wind is not usually warm either.. I ride in wind most days on our elevated roads above the river and along the lake meeting points. The GT is more stable for me and SO than the LT was. This nose shot may give you an idea, compare it to the frontal area of other designs. We loved riding our LT for four years. We both prefer the GT.
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post #15 of 27 Old Nov 20th, 2006, 1:30 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
Disclaimer: The following is all speculation.

We were talking to a highly placed BMW Corp. dood at the Ft. Worth IMS show today. He was saying that R&D of a new LT, with a six cylinder motor(!) would cost 90 million Euros. Now, the dollar to Euro, and for BMW to make their vig, would leave a spanking, brand new designed LT at well over 30 thou U.S.

So, a brand spanking new designed LT isn't even in the works, much less speculated or even in design. So it's speculated.

He also said that any new model can no longer be kept secret anymore with the advent of cell phone camera's and instant communications. Africa? Nope. Canary Islands? Nope. Nowhere is safe for a road test anymore, though we offered. Prolly why we haven't seen any type of LT spy shots.

There was hintings of a GT based LT. Set bags, redesigned ergo's, com and radio/satellite with ASC, Zenon and other toys unamed. A speculated weight of 100 lbs less than the LT.

I can see this as the GT is the perfect bike.
Grif, its been a Looong time,

I was hoping that BMW would have an LT replacement in line by now. I have one of the last BMW leases on my 2002, it is up in April '07. I need another touring bike and the GT don't cut it for me, don't care for the seating position. I don't want an RT, love the smooothness of the K-motors. Need a 2up mcy, which leaves me with GW or Ultra. I can't see buying another LT (basicly same motorcycle I have now) and it don't pay to refinance the balloon, my only options are to sell it myself or turn it in. I hope they (BMW) come up with at least a temporary replacement for the LT before 2008.

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post #16 of 27 Old Nov 20th, 2006, 8:12 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
As nice as the GT is, it is still a "Sport Tourer", and nothing will change that. The LT is often in the mix when someone is looking at Goldwings and Ultras, but that same market segment will not likely be looking at the GT, nor the FJR or new Kaw 1400.

The people in the market for a Lux tourer expect size, fixed bags, and all the additional items such as a good sound system etc. The GT is not in that league.

I would love to have a new GT, but I do not really compare it to the LT. It does not have the same looks, and that top case sitting on top just does not look as good to many as the nicely faired in fixed one. It looks exactly like what it is, a pop on addition to a sport tourer. However, the ability to pop them off and carry them in at a hotel stop is nice.

I am hoping BMW does come out with a new LT based on the GT, but a full lux tourer as the LT now is. If the don't, they WILL be abandoning the 'Wing/Ultra market segment in which they have been a pretty good player with the LT.
I think that's what I said. New fairing, set bags (or fixed, including trunk), ergo's, seats and toys (meaning, com, radio/satellite, etc.). It was hinted that there would be other neat goodies (besides TPM. ASC and xenon). It will be based around the GT platform and be at least 100 lbs lighter than the current LT.

Before anyone starts complaining about stability, I rode in 51 mph wind gusts the other day. The GT handled it better than the LT ever did.... at speed. What is the deal with this bike and the effortless speed?



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post #17 of 27 Old Nov 20th, 2006, 8:40 pm
 
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Originally Posted by grifscoots
What is the deal with this bike and the effortless speed?
I hadn't noticed...

The funny thing is, this GT is slower than my ZX-11 from every aspect. It is also arguably slower than any of my 6 Honda V65s. So why does it feel faster than all of them?
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post #18 of 27 Old Nov 20th, 2006, 9:42 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
I hadn't noticed...

The funny thing is, this GT is slower than my ZX-11 from every aspect. It is also arguably slower than any of my 6 Honda V65s. So why does it feel faster than all of them?
The bumblebee thang?



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post #19 of 27 Old Nov 20th, 2006, 9:57 pm
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All of this is speculation and it is possible the reality may be completely different than the speculation.

I have, on many occasions, had an opportunity to talk about the next LT with dealer principals and people within BMW Motorrad USA. I am certain that few of these people really know the whole story, BMW AG has a reputation for fiercely protecting its future product developments. Beginning a little over a year ago I was told that the next generation LT would be based on the K4x (GT,S,R, R-Sport) platform. It would have fixed baggage and 'all the amenities' of the current LT, with some of the newer features such as ESA. It would weigh about 100lbs less than the current LT. The rumor also had it that the LT variant would increase to 1300-1400cc. Those rumors were repeated time after time over the last 12-18 months. The one person with BMW Motorrad USA who I really trust and who I believe might know the truth said he could neither confirm or deny the rumors, but that it was a 'very good guess'. The rumors consistently had the intro of the next LT at the 2007 Intermot show as a 2008 model, to be available in the spring of 2008.

Beginning about three months ago I began to hear that BMW has 'pushed back' its planned introduction of the next LT, ostensibly due to two factors: 1) The sales of the current LT had softened to the point that they would have available inventory on hand to carry the current model through the 2008 model year. 2) They were surprised at how many of the GT sales were to current LT owners, usually resulting in an LT trade-in. Additionally they had projected a certain number of LTs to be sold over which to amortize the cost of the 2005 update (cosmetics, instrument, engine changes, hydraulic centerstand and front end geometry). At current sales rates that would take the model through the 2008 model year. At the same time the new LT was rumored to be pushed back, I heard that BMW was 're-evaluating' the viability of the model.

I agree that the GT, wonderful bike that it is, will not be a viable replacement for the LT. While most of the rumors above seem to have plausibility, I cannot believe that the development of the next LT was so limited that they would even consider shelving it. I do believe that the LT sales are soft enough to leave BMW with sufficient inventory to carry them further than they might have expected earlier. Most dealers report that the sales of the LT dropped 'significantly' this year. The gut check that BMW has is whether the sales of the LT are soft and the trades on GTs are brisk is because of the waning viability of the LT as a platform or simply because the current LT has aged to the point where people will settle for a GT in order to get newer technology.

I believe that BMW has already done substantial development work on the next LT and that it would make no sense to abandon it altogether. My guess is that you will see the next generation LT no later than the 2009 model year, possibly still introduced for the 2008 model year. I will also guess that the new engine will be the 55-degree 4-cylinder used in the GT with an increase in displacement to nearly 1400cc. Obviously it will likely be available with ESA, TPM, ASC and all of the other new acronyms. There are also rumors of throttle-by-wire and some sort of variable valve timing developments which might make their way into the next LT.

The unfortunate reality is that the people within BMW who know aren't talking and the ones who are talking, probably don't know.

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post #20 of 27 Old Nov 21st, 2006, 6:20 pm
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I owned a ST1100 for 400 miles of which I hated 390. I would never even consider spending 5 cents on a GT. Loss of the LT would instantly send me back to the Harley fold.
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post #21 of 27 Old Nov 21st, 2006, 6:37 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randy
The unfortunate reality is that the people within BMW who know aren't talking and the ones who are talking, probably don't know.
Randy:

That is the most lucid and reasonable posting in this whole vapid thread.

Thank you!

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post #22 of 27 Old Nov 21st, 2006, 7:25 pm Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JATownsend
Randy:

That is the most lucid and reasonable posting in this whole vapid thread.

Thank you!
vapid: lacking liveliness, tang, briskness, or force: flat, uninteresting

Well, excuuuuuuuuuuuse me!

This thread as opposed to the ball of fire, cain't wait to get up and read what the Nobel prize winning, literary, lucid and reasonable Mr. Townsend has posted?
Sorry to have wasted your time, bucko.



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post #23 of 27 Old Nov 21st, 2006, 7:31 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
vapid: lacking liveliness, tang, briskness, or force: flat, uninteresting

Well, excuuuuuuuuuuuse me!

This thread as opposed to the ball of fire, cain't wait to get up and read what the Nobel prize winning, literary, lucid and reasonable Mr. Townsend has posted?
Sorry to have wasted your time, bucko.
Apology accepted!

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post #24 of 27 Old Nov 21st, 2006, 7:48 pm
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No GT in my future...

Kathy sat on the back of the GT and... there won't be a GT in our garage anytime soon! .
She just won't fit as the foot pegs are too high for her, and too must forward lean for her comfort.

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post #25 of 27 Old Nov 21st, 2006, 8:35 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randy
--------------------I will also guess that the new engine will be the 55-degree 4-cylinder used in the GT with an increase in displacement to nearly 1400cc.
Then there will be a lot of GT/S/R riders watching the boneyards like vultures trying to get one of the engines to put in their bike.
Quote:
------------------------The unfortunate reality is that the people within BMW who know aren't talking and the ones who are talking, probably don't know.
That is probably the best statement I have seen yet, and all my little experience with BMW says that is VERY true! If someone is talking about it, they probably have little factual knowledge. If they say they know nothing, they are probably the more knowledgeable.

I think you have posted the most likely scenarios, and I for one more vote just cannot believe BMW would abandon the Lux Tourer market.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #26 of 27 Old Nov 21st, 2006, 9:23 pm
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by bflemingor
I owned a ST1100 for 400 miles of which I hated 390. I would never even consider spending 5 cents on a GT. Loss of the LT would instantly send me back to the Harley fold.
Buh Bye!!!
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post #27 of 27 Old Nov 21st, 2006, 9:25 pm
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by randy
The unfortunate reality is that the people within BMW who know aren't talking and the ones who are talking, probably don't know.
What I like most about that statement is that it comes after several paragraphs of Randy's matter of fact speculations.
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