Lower cam chain guide - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 15 Old Nov 17th, 2006, 6:53 pm Thread Starter
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Lower cam chain guide

I am attempting to remove the cams to switch out a few buckets and have come to a snag. I am using the gunsmoke process and am unclear as to how to "push down on the lower cam chain guide". I am not seeing a good place to put my big screwdriver without risking tearing up something.

Can someone guide me on where to put the screwdriver, or other tool, to lower the chain guide to allow me to fully insert the tool through the cover?


Thanks,

James

James Hart
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post #2 of 15 Old Nov 17th, 2006, 7:13 pm
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Read Scot Marburger's (Gunsmoke) instructions carefully - he tells you which screw to remove in the front cover, and then insert into this hole either the $7 BMW tool or the correct diameter shaft of a drill bit. Inserting this shaft will push the cam chain guide out of the way. It's the first step in the valve adjustment procedure - and removal of the drill bit is the very last step as well.

Push the drill bit shaft firmly into the hole - at first you'll feel resistance, then it will 'give', the shaft will insert further, and finally bottom out.

- Bob

Cowboy Bob Menton
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Last edited by bob_menton; Nov 17th, 2006 at 7:22 pm.
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post #3 of 15 Old Nov 17th, 2006, 7:32 pm Thread Starter
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Lower cam valve guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob_menton
Read Scot Marburger's (Gunsmoke) instructions carefully - he tells you which screw to remove in the front cover, and then insert into this hole either the $7 BMW tool or the correct diameter shaft of a drill bit. Inserting this shaft will push the cam chain guide out of the way. It's the first step in the valve adjustment procedure - and removal of the drill bit is the very last step as well.

Push the drill bit shaft firmly into the hole - at first you'll feel resistance, then it will 'give', the shaft will insert further, and finally bottom out.

- Bob

Thanks Bob. I have not pushed the drill bit shaft maybe as far as I need. I felt resistance and then stopped. I suppose I need to push a little harder.

My question is in regards to the process whereby it indicates to use a screwdriver to push down on the lower cam chain guide. Is this a necessary step? If so, where exactly on the chain guide do I apply a downward force. Do I touch the chain when doing so?

James Hart
2002 LTE Titan Silver
1992 Yamaha Virago 750 (given to friend)
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post #4 of 15 Old Nov 17th, 2006, 8:43 pm
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You don't need to push the lower cam guide with a screwdriver. I've adjusted over a dozen LT's valves without ever having to do that.



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post #5 of 15 Old Nov 17th, 2006, 8:59 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob_menton
Read Scot Marburger's (Gunsmoke) instructions carefully - he tells you which screw to remove in the front cover, and then insert into this hole either the $7 BMW tool or the correct diameter shaft of a drill bit. Inserting this shaft will push the cam chain guide out of the way. It's the first step in the valve adjustment procedure - and removal of the drill bit is the very last step as well.

Push the drill bit shaft firmly into the hole - at first you'll feel resistance, then it will 'give', the shaft will insert further, and finally bottom out.

- Bob
Most will not do that! If the chain is stretched any at all, you will not be able to use the tool to push the guide down. All I have done required pushing in on the tool, then pushing down on the chain guide until the tool will enter to hold the piston in the tensioner down.

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post #6 of 15 Old Nov 17th, 2006, 9:03 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob_menton
Read Scot Marburger's (Gunsmoke) instructions carefully - he tells you which screw to remove in the front cover, and then insert into this hole either the $7 BMW tool or the correct diameter shaft of a drill bit. Inserting this shaft will push the cam chain guide out of the way. It's the first step in the valve adjustment procedure - and removal of the drill bit is the very last step as well.

Push the drill bit shaft firmly into the hole - at first you'll feel resistance, then it will 'give', the shaft will insert further, and finally bottom out.

- Bob
James:

I had to cycle the rear wheel about 20 revolutions before I was able to insert the 'Pin Tool'. I thought it was never going to relax.

Don't give up, just try it again. BTW, no screwdriver is required,

J. Averill Townsend
Bloomfield Hills, MI


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post #7 of 15 Old Nov 17th, 2006, 9:04 pm Thread Starter
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Valve adjustment

Thanks Guys!

Will let you know how it all turns out.

James Hart
2002 LTE Titan Silver
1992 Yamaha Virago 750 (given to friend)
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post #8 of 15 Old Nov 17th, 2006, 11:20 pm
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Thanks, David. I didn't need to do the 'screwdriver' thing to get the tool in there ... last time ... but as my cam chain stretches, mebbe next time I will. I'll remember this tip.

- Bob

Cowboy Bob Menton
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post #9 of 15 Old Nov 18th, 2006, 9:24 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JATownsend
James:

I had to cycle the rear wheel about 20 revolutions before I was able to insert the 'Pin Tool'. I thought it was never going to relax.

Don't give up, just try it again. BTW, no screwdriver is required,
If you had turned the wheel backwards you would have gotten the tensioner to relax much easier, as that will put the tension on the bottom side of the chain, pushing the tensioner back.

Pushing the tensioner piston back cannot be done quickly, even with a screwdriver, because the hole in the cylinder that admits oil pressure when the engine is running to push the piston out is quite small so that when the engine is running the oil in the cylinder cannot be pushed back out by chain vibration. The tensioner has a spring in it to keep the tensioner slightly snug even if the engine has not run for some time, but it is oil pressure that does most of the work.

I don't understand the reluctance to use a small bar or large screwdriver to push the tensioner back, as BMW even does it. A is screwdriver pushed back on top of the lower run of the chain, and up against the cam bearing block, then some pressure up on the handle and you wil feel the tensioner slowly moving down. If you are pushing in lightly on the retainer pin you will feel it go in when the piston gets low enough.

The only reason this is done is to make re-installation of the cam sprockets much easier. If the tensioner is allowed to be pushed out by it's spring when the srockets are removed, the oil in the cylinder will prevent it being pushed back in easily, and getting the sprockets back on with a tightened chain is difficult at best, damage to the sprocket boss on the cam or the sprocket alignment pin is likely, especially if you don't get the sprocket seated well when you slip it on then tighten the sprocket retaining bolt. If the chain is tight, you may think the sprocket is seated, and when you tighten the bolt you are pushing it on with it likely not properly aligned.

USE THE SCREWDRIVER, it is a no-brainer. Simple, and it is the PROPER way to do the job.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
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post #10 of 15 Old Nov 18th, 2006, 9:50 am Thread Starter
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Valve adjustment

Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
If you had turned the wheel backwards you would have gotten the tensioner to relax much easier, as that will put the tension on the bottom side of the chain, pushing the tensioner back.

Pushing the tensioner piston back cannot be done quickly, even with a screwdriver, because the hole in the cylinder that admits oil pressure when the engine is running to push the piston out is quite small so that when the engine is running the oil in the cylinder cannot be pushed back out by chain vibration. The tensioner has a spring in it to keep the tensioner slightly snug even if the engine has not run for some time, but it is oil pressure that does most of the work.

I don't understand the reluctance to use a small bar or large screwdriver to push the tensioner back, as BMW even does it. A is screwdriver pushed back on top of the lower run of the chain, and up against the cam bearing block, then some pressure up on the handle and you wil feel the tensioner slowly moving down. If you are pushing in lightly on the retainer pin you will feel it go in when the piston gets low enough.

The only reason this is done is to make re-installation of the cam sprockets much easier. If the tensioner is allowed to be pushed out by it's spring when the srockets are removed, the oil in the cylinder will prevent it being pushed back in easily, and getting the sprockets back on with a tightened chain is difficult at best, damage to the sprocket boss on the cam or the sprocket alignment pin is likely, especially if you don't get the sprocket seated well when you slip it on then tighten the sprocket retaining bolt. If the chain is tight, you may think the sprocket is seated, and when you tighten the bolt you are pushing it on with it likely not properly aligned.

USE THE SCREWDRIVER, it is a no-brainer. Simple, and it is the PROPER way to do the job.
Dave, I appreciate the information regarding the chain. I am going to make sure that in putting the sprockets back on, they are fully and properly seated, to avoid the problems if they are not seated. Thanks for the warning.

I am at work as we speak and need to drop by Sears after work to pick up a 19MM wrench to hold the cam to allow loosening the cam bolt.

So much fun, so little time.

James Hart
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post #11 of 15 Old Nov 18th, 2006, 2:53 pm
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We did a valve adjustment on one bike where the pin that aligns the cam sprocket was bent/worn half away. That was obviously from an improper installation the last time it had been worked on. The bike seemed to run fine beforehand, but we took care to get the sprocket on correctly.

One of the big advantages to doing the work yourself is that you can take your time and do it right.

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post #12 of 15 Old Nov 18th, 2006, 4:37 pm Thread Starter
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Valve adjustment

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
We did a valve adjustment on one bike where the pin that aligns the cam sprocket was bent/worn half away. That was obviously from an improper installation the last time it had been worked on. The bike seemed to run fine beforehand, but we took care to get the sprocket on correctly.

One of the big advantages to doing the work yourself is that you can take your time and do it right.
Thanks Ken for that point. It gives a great example of what Dave said with regards to making sure the chain is not so tight that it inhibits the sprockets from going on nice and straight. That sounds like what very well might have happened.

Is their a surefire way, or telltale sign, to know you have relaxed the chain tensioner and are ready to begin removing the sprockets? Also, if I am only changing out the intake buckets, I still will need to loosen the lower cam bolt and sprocket, but not remove the lower cam. That is what I understand.

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1992 Yamaha Virago 750 (given to friend)
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post #13 of 15 Old Nov 19th, 2006, 1:32 pm Thread Starter
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Cam removal

Success. I have completely removed the top cam and have pulled the intake buckets I will be swapping with the next smaller size.

Now I only hope Plano BMW has my sizes (they will all be 2.85) so I can continue sewing her up this coming weekend.

Appreciate everyone's input. It feels good to get past snags. God knows, I have come across a few so far. I am looking forward to getting this all done so the next time won't be near as brutal.

Regards,
James

James Hart
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1992 Yamaha Virago 750 (given to friend)
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post #14 of 15 Old Nov 19th, 2006, 3:00 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beemer100
Success. I have completely removed the top cam and have pulled the intake buckets I will be swapping with the next smaller size.

Now I only hope Plano BMW has my sizes (they will all be 2.85) so I can continue sewing her up this coming weekend.

Appreciate everyone's input. It feels good to get past snags. God knows, I have come across a few so far. I am looking forward to getting this all done so the next time won't be near as brutal.

Regards,
James
Good on ya, James. I don't know much 'bout valve adjustment, and such, butt I can tell by the tone in your post, you're pleased with what you've done. And I'm also glad for the help you got throughout the project. Might help me if I ever brave that job. Best.
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post #15 of 15 Old Nov 19th, 2006, 3:47 pm Thread Starter
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Cam removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
Good on ya, James. I don't know much 'bout valve adjustment, and such, butt I can tell by the tone in your post, you're pleased with what you've done. And I'm also glad for the help you got throughout the project. Might help me if I ever brave that job. Best.
Thanks Dick. You are right about being pleased to get this far. I am just trying to take my time, which obviously makes for a slower process, and make sure to consult my Clymer Manual, BMW CD, and of course this website/members for help. The people on this website could not be any nicer or helpful. My hat's off to them and the person (s) who started this website.

I have worked on engines before, but have not done a valve adjustment (this is the first). I kinda enjoy getting a little grease under the nails which is definitely a diversion from my 9-5, and it gets me out of the little lady's hair too!

Take Care,
James

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