Gear Position Sensor - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 25 Old Apr 2nd, 2017, 1:47 pm Thread Starter
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Gear Position Sensor

Finally got the K1200LT back together for the riding season after a clutch replacement. Was really happy when it started back up and after 1 or 2 seconds of rough idle, just quieted right down to what I expected. As I was getting ready to push it off the center stand, I noticed that the gear position wasn't showing on the dash. I shifted through the gears and it seemed that neutral light wasn't working between 1 and 2, although the notch was still there. The light does briefly come on during the 3 to 4th gear shift.

I pulled the bike apart enough to get to the sensor. I cleaned it and the connection point and verified that it was snapped into place on both ends.. Still nothing and the weird neutral light issue. Before I drop $150 for a new sensor, does this sound right or could I have messed up something inside the transmission?

-Kris
1999 K1200LT - 57,000 miles.
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post #2 of 25 Old Apr 2nd, 2017, 3:42 pm
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Re: Gear Position Sensor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksnarf View Post
Finally got the K1200LT back together for the riding season after a clutch replacement. Was really happy when it started back up and after 1 or 2 seconds of rough idle, just quieted right down to what I expected. As I was getting ready to push it off the center stand, I noticed that the gear position wasn't showing on the dash. I shifted through the gears and it seemed that neutral light wasn't working between 1 and 2, although the notch was still there. The light does briefly come on during the 3 to 4th gear shift.

I pulled the bike apart enough to get to the sensor. I cleaned it and the connection point and verified that it was snapped into place on both ends.. Still nothing and the weird neutral light issue. Before I drop $150 for a new sensor, does this sound right or could I have messed up something inside the transmission?

-Kris
1999 K1200LT - 57,000 miles.
First question would be did you take the transmission apart in order to press any seals out from the inside or to replace any input/output bearings while you were doing your clutch?

That sensor has a half moon one way fit If the picture on MAX is correct. It can only go on one way. Check the connector and make sure no pins have pushed back in or are bent. I am not sure how to test that sensor or what inside the transmission could be oriented wrong but you would have to have taken something apart to have gotten it together wrong.
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Gordon
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post #3 of 25 Old Apr 2nd, 2017, 11:37 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Gear Position Sensor

I didn't open up the transmission, just replaced the seals around the clutch as those were the ones that went bad.

I will try pulling the sensor again and cleaning it. Just seems odd that it was working prior to working on the clutch.. Worst case, I'll order a new sensor.

Thanks for the help
-kris
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post #4 of 25 Old Apr 3rd, 2017, 7:27 am
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Re: Gear Position Sensor

I had an issue with my gear indicator displaying the incorrect gear (2000LT) and JohnZ attached a diagram and responded with the following:

"Sounds like the gear indicator switch is getting dirty. On the LT there are 3 switches that send a coded signal to the dash looks like you are missing the third switch or its contacts are dirty."

Hope it helps,

Rob
Navarre, FL
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post #5 of 25 Old Apr 3rd, 2017, 3:52 pm
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Re: Gear Position Sensor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksnarf View Post
I didn't open up the transmission, just replaced the seals around the clutch as those were the ones that went bad.

I will try pulling the sensor again and cleaning it. Just seems odd that it was working prior to working on the clutch.. Worst case, I'll order a new sensor.

Thanks for the help
-kris
Just replaced mine as I destroyed the old one during a clutch repair. Found it on e-Bay for $25.

Not sure it can be cleaned - if you pull the cap off the SMALL springs holding in the pins that made contact with the switch assembly like to shoot across the room.

I have some pics of the internals of the switch if interested - will post when I get home.

Is it seated all the way down? That is, are both sides of the spring clip under the mounting bosses?

edit: added pictures...

Note the three small contacts and springs - these fit into the rotating assembly (three small holes) which in turn connect to the head assembly (one with wires attached) - these are the three connections shown in the wiring diagram above (plus ground). This one has 122k on it and I don't see that it's dirty. I also don't see any keying marks to get this aligned back together correctly - it may not matter based on how the contacts are aligned with the "D" key to the transmission. There's also a small metal tab on the side of the rotating piece that stops when it hits a metal tab on the fixed portion so it won't free-rotate...

Again, I put it back together just now and it tested OK, however the cap was lose - and when I took it off the contacts and springs where lost to the carpet gods....

Good luck!
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Last edited by Gino; Apr 4th, 2017 at 12:16 am. Reason: Added pics
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post #6 of 25 Old Apr 4th, 2017, 11:35 am
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Re: Gear Position Sensor

You can test the sensor by turning the sensor switch with a screw driver when the ignition switch is on. As you turn the sensor, you should see the gear indicator change to show the different gear numbers. If this does not happen, your gear indicator is faulty.
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post #7 of 25 Old Apr 4th, 2017, 12:47 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Gear Position Sensor

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvpadgett View Post
You can test the sensor by turning the sensor switch with a screw driver when the ignition switch is on. As you turn the sensor, you should see the gear indicator change to show the different gear numbers. If this does not happen, your gear indicator is faulty.
Thanks. I'll try this tonight.


Thank you to everyone to responding. Special thanks to Gino for the pictures, they are quite helpful.


-Kris
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post #8 of 25 Old Apr 4th, 2017, 8:26 pm
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Re: Gear Position Sensor

Thanks for posting the pictures of the insides. I always wanted to see that but mine never failed.

John
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2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
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post #9 of 25 Old Apr 4th, 2017, 8:30 pm
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Re: Gear Position Sensor

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
Thanks for posting the pictures of the insides. I always wanted to see that but mine never failed.
I saved some off in case they need to be referenced at a later date

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #10 of 25 Old Apr 5th, 2017, 5:45 pm
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Re: Gear Position Sensor

I pulled mine apart accidentally while getting ready to drop the trans. I put it back together but I'm not sure if I had those pins or not.

Have to pull it apart tonight.

Good timing on this thread
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post #11 of 25 Old Apr 6th, 2017, 1:01 am
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Re: Gear Position Sensor

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Originally Posted by trussell View Post
I pulled mine apart accidentally while getting ready to drop the trans. I put it back together but I'm not sure if I had those pins or not.

Have to pull it apart tonight.

Good timing on this thread
Same here - I was not able to find the springs until AFTER I ordered the new one - Oh well.

I probably could have rebuilt it but knowing where it's located (and the one smashed spring) I didn't want to trust it...

Gino
Modesto, CA
'02 Silver
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post #12 of 25 Old Apr 7th, 2017, 12:10 pm
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Re: Gear Position Sensor

Mine reads wrong but the N still lights up so my centerstand will work. It doesn't bother me so I never replaced it.

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post #13 of 25 Old Apr 7th, 2017, 11:15 pm
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Re: Gear Position Sensor

Looked at it tonight and all three of the small springs and their projectiles disappeared into the far corners of my garage. Guess I'll need to order a new one
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post #14 of 25 Old Apr 8th, 2017, 10:06 am
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Re: Gear Position Sensor

Note to self: If I ever disassemble the gear position sending unit - I will do it INSIDE a large plastic bag!!!
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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #15 of 25 Old May 12th, 2018, 1:23 pm
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Anyone have pictures as to the location of the gear position sensor asap thx
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post #16 of 25 Old May 13th, 2018, 7:56 pm
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Re: Gear Position Sensor

It is right here, but you have to remove the cross tube to get access to it and the belcrank for the shifter.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #17 of 25 Old Jun 9th, 2018, 11:56 am
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Re: Gear Position Sensor

If you lie under the bike on centre stand with a good light you can get fingers from the side and bottom then both remove and replace the sensor without stripping anything. The trick is to get a small ziptie looped ready to pull on the end of needle nose pliers, slip the ziptie over the two spring clip ends and pull tight, locking them closed. Same for reinstalling then just pry off the ziptie after. It's a fiddle I used a finger in from the left side to move and press the sensor into place and wiggles the cable from beneath with my right had to rotate it when positioning. I've had mine off and cleaned it inside as I have no neutral light and no gear indicator on the dash.

Sadly on mine this has had no effect, I think my sidestand switch is faulty and causing it, the gear indicator was on and off last week and wiggling the sidestand put them back on. Its also not cutting the engine off in 1st with stand down.

Does anyone know if the sidestand causes the gear indicator on the dash to go off totally?
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post #18 of 25 Old Jun 9th, 2018, 4:48 pm
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Re: Gear Position Sensor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post

Does anyone know if the sidestand causes the gear indicator on the dash to go off totally?
I see nothing in the wiring diagrams that suggest a connection. The gear indicator switch feeds directly to the dash controls and there is no connection from the side stand switch to the dash. But I suppose it is possible (hidden interconnection). I see you cleaned it but I think I would have tested it off the transmission before I put it back on just to make sure.

Nice technique for removing and installing it. I'll have to try that.
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2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #19 of 25 Old Jun 9th, 2018, 7:59 pm
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Re: Gear Position Sensor

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Originally Posted by trussell View Post
Looked at it tonight and all three of the small springs and their projectiles disappeared into the far corners of my garage. Guess I'll need to order a new one
I have one, if you get stuck.

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post #20 of 25 Old Jun 10th, 2018, 11:56 am
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Re: Gear Position Sensor

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Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
I see nothing in the wiring diagrams that suggest a connection. The gear indicator switch feeds directly to the dash controls and there is no connection from the side stand switch to the dash. But I suppose it is possible (hidden interconnection). I see you cleaned it but I think I would have tested it off the transmission before I put it back on just to make sure.

Nice technique for removing and installing it. I'll have to try that.
The only reason I wondered was because the last 2 days it was working the neutral light and gear indicator went out occasionally when I turned it off. Flicked the side stand back and forth and they came back on so I thought maybe some kind of connection. Oddly my side stand switch currently allows the bike to run but does nothing if I put the stand down when in gear.

I also have no neutral light, oil temp light, engine temp light or batt light on ignition. The rev counter doesn't work nor does the fuel gauge engine temp gauge or gear indicator. All other dash lights indicators, lights, high beam etc work.

Couple of other tiny points, the battery light is supposed to get power from the alternator via a single wire on startup. It's not sending any on startup B+ pin is saying 0V. If I rev the bike the battery warning light suddenly gets power from the B+terminal and oddly... the battery starts charging (confirmed by volt meter 14.4v)

This is all off the back of a starter motor relay failure that jammed closed and the starter wouldn't stop spooling. Happened when I was riding and I lost the entire dashboard, it went dead. Replaced relay and starter (old starter worked but I figured why not) With new relay and starter the entire dash leapt back into life, then 3 days later … all the above.

I should add my bike is a 1998 K1200RS but they share pretty much everything with the LT, including the Clymer Manual lol.

Last edited by Machinehead; Jun 10th, 2018 at 12:03 pm.
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post #21 of 25 Old Jun 10th, 2018, 12:16 pm
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Re: Gear Position Sensor

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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
The only reason I wondered was because the last 2 days it was working the neutral light and gear indicator went out occasionally when I turned it off. Flicked the side stand back and forth and they came back on so I thought maybe some kind of connection. Oddly my side stand switch currently allows the bike to run but does nothing if I put the stand down when in gear.

I also have no neutral light, oil temp light, engine temp light or batt light on ignition. The rev counter doesn't work nor does the fuel gauge engine temp gauge or gear indicator. All other dash lights indicators, lights, high beam etc work.

Couple of other tiny points, the battery light is supposed to get power from the alternator via a single wire on startup. It's not sending any on startup B+ pin is saying 0V. If I rev the bike the battery warning light suddenly gets power from the B+terminal and oddly... the battery starts charging (confirmed by volt meter 14.4v)

This is all off the back of a starter motor relay failure that jammed closed and the starter wouldn't stop spooling. Happened when I was riding and I lost the entire dashboard, it went dead. Replaced relay and starter (old starter worked but I figured why not) With new relay and starter the entire dash leapt back into life, then 3 days later … all the above.

I should add my bike is a 1998 K1200RS but they share pretty much everything with the LT, including the Clymer Manual lol.
If you ran long with the starter hot, you may have melted parts of the wiring harness and may now have some connections, probably intermittent, that don’t show in the wiring diagram. Probably time to strip the bike and do a thorough wiring harness inspection along the starter circuit wiring path.

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post #22 of 25 Old Jun 10th, 2018, 12:44 pm
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Re: Gear Position Sensor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post

This is all off the back of a starter motor relay failure that jammed closed and the starter wouldn't stop spooling. Happened when I was riding and I lost the entire dashboard, it went dead. Replaced relay and starter (old starter worked but I figured why not) With new relay and starter the entire dash leapt back into life, then 3 days later … all the above.

I should add my bike is a 1998 K1200RS but they share pretty much everything with the LT, including the Clymer Manual lol.
Based on my experience with the runaway starter on the LT there could be wires that melted their insulation near the starter wire in the main bundle. This is how far back I had to strip it to separate the melted wires. The good new is once they were isolated and re-taped all was well.

Worth a look.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #23 of 25 Old Jun 10th, 2018, 3:06 pm
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Re: Gear Position Sensor

You wouldn't happen to recall where on your loom the damage was, with the same issue its likely to be near the same area. So far I have stripped out the main wiring box and not found anything burned or visibly damaged.



Cheers
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post #24 of 25 Old Jun 12th, 2018, 2:24 pm
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Re: Gear Position Sensor

Just a quick update, firstly as suggested it was a wiring issue, luckily not related to the starter motor issue. I checked almost the entire loom (what fun that was!) and found a wire leading to the dash and battery warning light had corroded and come loose from the bundle. Soldered back in and retaped and bob's your uncle.

To put the thread back on track as I appear to have deviated it a bit - If anyone needs any help or advice on stripping, rebuilding and refitting a gear position sensor without taking anything off the bike other than the sensor let me know and I'll write something up. The sensor itself has bands of contacts as per the pictures earlier in this post and three springs and pins which sit in holes, as it turns it contacts different variations of the contacts and tells the dash what gear to display. Clever but very simple, if removed carefully and at least with a sheet of plastic under the bike you can get all the parts if it separates. Once rebuilt align the contact inside with the metal post and make sure when put back into it's housing that the bike is in neutral and the flat edge of the hole that the shaft goes into is in line with alignment pin.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions each helped in their own way. gave me things to check and rule out too
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post #25 of 25 Old Jun 12th, 2018, 6:55 pm
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Re: Gear Position Sensor

Glad you got it sorted out. In working on the LT the source of the neutral was eluding me. In the RS it is very clear on the "instrument" section of the wiring diagrams as it is the 4th contact and feeds the dash light directly. On the LT it is not shown in the "instrument " page but the neutral light receives its ground from the reverser controller. The sheet for the starter and reverser circuit shows the 4th contact feeding the reverser controller. Strange how they did that.

Now looking back at the "internals" of the switch I don't see the 4th contact unless it is the bar in the center. Guess I'll have to find one and take it apart and play with it.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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