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post #1 of 24 Old Nov 12th, 2006, 9:31 pm Thread Starter
 
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Question Looking for buying assistance . . . .

I came across this site and am quite impressed with the information it provides. I currently have a BMW F650 and a Kawasaki Voyager XII. The Kawasaki is a great bike but it is a bit dated in terms of technology. I was out today with several riders and when we stopped, saw a couple on a '99 K1200LT. They loved the bike - had 65K+ on the clock - and it really felt "right" sitting on it.

Of course I gravitated to the bike sites when I got home and looked at a few "possibilities" for sale. Unfortunately, most are a drive to get to and I was hoping to get some info from current riders.

A few questions I was hoping you could answer are:

1) What is the difference between the K120oLT and the K1200 LTC (custom); i.e., what do I get or give up with either model?


2) Are there any major changes in model years; i.e., in the 1999 to 2003 time frame (looking at those years for budget reasons . . . . unless I should look newer).


3) Are there any "achilles heel" issues that I need to be looking for on one from that vintage since it will obviously be out of warranty (and with my F650, I know what the service costs can be! )


4) How do they ride both for around town spins and on the longer jaunts?


5) Any other pointers or suggestions?


Thanks in advance for your input. I have found that the BMW riders really provide some great information via the Internet.

Andy
Rock Hill, SC

Last edited by Andy-SC; Nov 12th, 2006 at 9:40 pm.
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post #2 of 24 Old Nov 12th, 2006, 10:03 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy-SC
I came across this site and am quite impressed with the information it provides. I currently have a BMW F650 and a Kawasaki Voyager XII. The Kawasaki is a great bike but it is a bit dated in terms of technology. I was out today with several riders and when we stopped, saw a couple on a '99 K1200LT. They loved the bike - had 65K+ on the clock - and it really felt "right" sitting on it.

Of course I gravitated to the bike sites when I got home and looked at a few "possibilities" for sale. Unfortunately, most are a drive to get to and I was hoping to get some info from current riders.

A few questions I was hoping you could answer are:

1) What is the difference between the K120oLT and the K1200 LTC (custom); i.e., what do I get or give up with either model?


2) Are there any major changes in model years; i.e., in the 1999 to 2003 time frame (looking at those years for budget reasons . . . . unless I should look newer).


3) Are there any "achilles heel" issues that I need to be looking for on one from that vintage since it will obviously be out of warranty (and with my F650, I know what the service costs can be! )


4) How do they ride both for around town spins and on the longer jaunts?


5) Any other pointers or suggestions?


Thanks in advance for your input. I have found that the BMW riders really provide some great information via the Internet.

Andy
Rock Hill, SC
Answers to most (all?) of your questions here in the Newbie FAQs:http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/faq.php?...aq_k1200lt_faq

Happy to take any additional Qs you don't find answered there!

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
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post #3 of 24 Old Nov 13th, 2006, 6:04 am Thread Starter
 
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I might have missed something but . . . .

. . . . . I reviewed the information in that section as well as a number of pages of forum posts and was not able to find information on the differences between the LT and LTC, any specific years to avoid (the ABS module replacement issue seems to be a real eye-opener on the earlier bikes and that seems to be a common post issue) or other big ticket weak points.

If I did miss them, I'd appreciate a point in the right direction. If it is noit there and someone has a website address where it is covered I would appreciate that as well.

Andy
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post #4 of 24 Old Nov 13th, 2006, 6:46 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy-SC
. . . . . I reviewed the information in that section as well as a number of pages of forum posts and was not able to find information on the differences between the LT and LTC, any specific years to avoid (the ABS module replacement issue seems to be a real eye-opener on the earlier bikes and that seems to be a common post issue) or other big ticket weak points.

If I did miss them, I'd appreciate a point in the right direction. If it is noit there and someone has a website address where it is covered I would appreciate that as well.

Andy
Good morning, Andy! Happy to fill in the gaps.

The basic vehicle is the K1200LT. In the early years there were 3 models: LTS (standard), LTI (Icon) and LTC (Custom). These were differentiated by equipment and trim (onboard computer, CD changer, chrome trim on mirrors, tip-over bumpers, etc.). Later they added the LTE (Elite or Exodus, depending on whether before or after Honda objected to "Elite" as their name). The E added an intercom and GPS (both dealer installed), IIRC. Later the S was dropped. In recent years, BMW has gone to "ala cart" -- one basic LT, with the buyer selecting options/option packages.

Vulnerabilities: The #1 issue, up to sometime in the '03 model production, was failed final drives -- the large bearing supporting the rear wheel would frag itself. About a 3-4% failure rate (*way* too high a failure rate, but still 95+% of bikes not affected) Seems BMW has finally got their hands around this problem some time in '03 -- final drive failures are very rare in the later bikes. The frustrating thing is BMW has not said word one about the cause or fix.

The ABS units occassionally fail, but the failure rate is not anywhere near the final drive rate. They are expensive to replace ($1400-1500 for the unit alone). Extended warranties are a good thing

Service is expensive (similar to a HD dealer's service rates), but you'd be surprised how much you can do yourself, especially if you team up with a local list member.

HTH! More Qs?

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA

Last edited by mneblett; Nov 13th, 2006 at 8:44 am.
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post #5 of 24 Old Nov 13th, 2006, 8:06 am
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As a recent 03 LT purchaser, I can identify with your issues. The final drive has been addressed. That seems to be the most prevalent thing. Other issues arise on here, but it's up to you to decide how much you can stand. On my 03, the only thing I've have issue with was the OEM shield had fogged over. my dealer, Carolina BMW, replaced it under warranty.

As for rideability, I have one bike, the LT. Since I am recovering from an accident, I didn't get to do much riding. Have ridden to roanoke VA a couple times, about 90 miles up there and a couple of long ways home, to test the Interstate and back road worthiness of the LT. I also ride to work often. For around town, the bike is big and a bit cumbersome, especially till you get used to it. I had a 1000 Vstrom at 500 lbs, and the LT is 300# heavier, so it has been an adjustment. But the LT is fine for commuting work, with that consideration.

Good luck searching. i'm close by, in Mt Airy, NC, if I can be of any assistance in your search.

Rando
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post #6 of 24 Old Nov 13th, 2006, 8:26 am
 
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Buy the newest LT you can afford. And if you're like me (I HATE chrome) stay away from the 'C' or 'E' model. The basic models without chrome look much nicer IMO. But, some guys actually think that chrome looks nice.
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post #7 of 24 Old Nov 13th, 2006, 8:52 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rando
But the LT is fine for commuting work, with that consideration.
I'll second that -- my LT is my primary commuting vehicle, daily to/from downtown D.C. and the VA suburbs. Actooly, the LT is the best commuter I've had, as it has the storage capacity for clothing. briefcases, files, etc., a glovebox to keep things like garage pass cards handy, all-weather suitability (rain/cold protection), "fun" features (stereo, GPS, etc.) to make the ride more "endurable," and, for lack of a better word "presence" due to its bulk -- based on my observations of brain-dead cagers' reactions, I believe I'm seen a bit more than the little pocket rockets.

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
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post #8 of 24 Old Nov 13th, 2006, 8:53 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
The basic models without chrome look much nicer IMO. But, some guys actually think that chrome looks nice.
That's ok, Joe -- some people thought Ninjas were "kewl" too.

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
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post #9 of 24 Old Nov 13th, 2006, 9:53 am
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Looking for buying assistance...

Andy,
Good to see you one this forum too. I think Mark answered most of the basic questions, but here is my opinion:

Having moved from a VoyagerXII to a 2000LTC and now a 2003LTC, I can tell that there is a big difference in the bikes.

1.The first thing you notice is the brakes. The ABS is fantastic compared the the Voyager.
2.The ride for me on the stock seat is great. My butt hurts less after a 1000 miles on the LT than it did after 400 miles on the Voyager. It just seems to ride smoother.
3. Cruise control is better. The Voyager cruise would not hold steady speed especially in hills.
4. Stereo is better. Better sound quality and controls.

Most of this is technology improvements, but I think for me the way to describe it is like going from a 1974 Pinto to a 2004 Lincoln. Don't get me wrong, I really liked the VoyagerXII when I had it, still think it is a great bike for it's time, but the LT is just better.

Try to go to a 2003 or newer. I have less worry about the final drive. I do wish I had gone to the 2005 or newer this summer. The extra 16 HP and the electric centerstand would be nice. The prices now on this list and ebay seem to be coming down. I should have held out and looked longer, but insurance money in the pocket wanted to be spent.
If you think you will need or like the Intercom, CB, or GPS, hold out for a used one with everything you want on it. It is very expensive to add later.

I ride the LT around town and going to work every day. It is more of a top heavy beast at slow speeds, but you do get used to it and now just seems to come natural.

If you find one out this way, I'd be happy to look at it for you.

Good luck,
Lowell
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post #10 of 24 Old Nov 13th, 2006, 9:55 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mneblett
That's ok, Joe -- some people thought Ninjas were "kewl" too.
Hey now...thems fightin werds!
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post #11 of 24 Old Nov 13th, 2006, 10:11 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvahl
1.The first thing you notice is the brakes. The ABS is fantastic compared the the Voyager.
Thanks for adding to this! I should have commented on the brakes, too. In 2002 BMW introduced its new (my words) "power brakes" -- the Integral ABS system. These brakes have a distinctly different feel than the '99-'01 ABS II system. Some like them, some don't -- try both before you buy. The Integral system "links" the brakes, but in a non-linear manner -- the computer determine how much brake to apply at each end, depending on conditions (speed, bike loading, surface conditinos, etc.). If you can get used to the Intergal system, you'll find the brakes to be considerably more powerful, "smarter" (and thus safer), and able to stop the bike in emergency situations faster/shorter than an ABS II bike (which, BTW, is no slouch at stopping, either).

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
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post #12 of 24 Old Nov 13th, 2006, 12:47 pm
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Andy,

You need to take a short run to Charlotte Ducati, BMW in Mathews, NC they are right on Independence (HWY 74) just before Mathews. They are 165 miles from me but that is where I bought my '06 last month. LUV IT! ( brake squeal and all ........)

Talk to Kevin Edwards. I agree with buying as new as you can afford as the newer ones have had some of the significant issues addressed.
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post #13 of 24 Old Nov 13th, 2006, 8:42 pm Thread Starter
 
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Couple of more questions . . . . .

Thanks for all the great (and fast) replies.

I am looking at a 2000 K1200LT with 31K on the clock. The bike has had two owners and the current one just feels it is too big for him (he's a tad under 5'9") and is looking at a cruiser bike.

The tires are new (within the last 500 miles) and it was supposedly recently serviced at the local BMW shop (I guess I can check on that). Other than a few scrapes (none into the plastic itself), it looks to have been well cared for from the photos I've seen.

Now for the questions:

1) Do you know if I can call BMW or my local dealer with the VIN and see what the history is on the bike? Can they tell me what was done to the bike under warranty; i.e., some of the typical issues I have read about on the forums here?


2) On a 2000 model, anything in particular to focus on when giving it the once over?


3) I have not yet seen the bike and have talked to the guy's wife to get some answers. One that I wanted to know ahead of time is what is standard in terms of options on the bike. Heated grips? Heated seat? Computer? Stereo? Intercom? CD? etc.


4) Is NADA Guides the best source for determining a fair price for the bike?

Thanks in advance . . . .

Andy
Rock Hill, SC
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post #14 of 24 Old Nov 13th, 2006, 9:14 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mneblett
That's ok, Joe -- some people thought Ninjas were "kewl" too.
Careful there, Mark. Joe just might dump his old-tech GT for a new Concours14 and we'd likely never hear from him again.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #15 of 24 Old Nov 13th, 2006, 9:35 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Careful there, Mark. Joe just might dump his old-tech GT for a new Concours14 and we'd likely never hear from him again.
MUST .... RESIST .... URGE .... TO .... RESPOND .... !!!!!!!!

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
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post #16 of 24 Old Nov 13th, 2006, 9:49 pm
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Originally Posted by mneblett
MUST .... RESIST .... URGE .... TO .... RESPOND .... !!!!!!!!
Unsubscribe.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #17 of 24 Old Nov 13th, 2006, 10:00 pm
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Wink Electric center stands are for sissies

Quote:
Originally Posted by lvahl
Try to go to a 2003 or newer. I have less worry about the final drive. I do wish I had gone to the 2005 or newer this summer. The extra 16 HP and the electric centerstand would be nice.
I've ridden with '05+ LT riders. By the time they get the bike on the center stand, I'm off the bike, it's on the CS and I'm putting my helmet away. Besides, how much does it cost to replace?

The extra HP would be nice though.

BTW, buying an older LT means there's $ for farkles and tools, arr, arr, arr!

Regards,
John
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2000 K1200 LTC - Canyon Red
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post #18 of 24 Old Nov 13th, 2006, 10:03 pm
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Voyager to K1200LT

Andy,

I went from a 2000 Voyager XII (totaled @ 89,000 miles) to a 2003 LTC. I bought the bike with 15,000 miles in Aug of 05 and just rolled over 50,000 miles this evening. It is my only bike.
Love the brakes, GPS, comfort, handling and creature comforts. I don't worry about the final drive, I put a drive shaft in the Voyager @ 56,000. If the drive goes out, I'll fix it. I loved my Voyager when I had it but would never go back. My $.02

Mike Riley
'03 Graphite Met
AMA, IBA
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post #19 of 24 Old Nov 13th, 2006, 10:14 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgburns
I've ridden with '05+ LT riders. By the time they get the bike on the center stand, I'm off the bike, it's on the CS and I'm putting my helmet away. Besides, how much does it cost to replace?

The extra HP would be nice though.

BTW, buying an older LT means there's $ for farkles and tools, arr, arr, arr!
Love the post title!

I used to think the same thing -- then I blew my ACL. Without the EHC, I would likely not have been able to start riding again for literally several extra months -- June through August was bad enough as it was! There was no way I was going to either put the bike on the centerstand manually, nor lift it *off* the sidedstand (the surgery was on the left ACL) until the healing was much farther along. So, put me in the "convert" column

Don't worry -- if I really want to maintain centerstand-use proficiency, I'll practice on one of my wife's "old school" beemers

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
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post #20 of 24 Old Nov 13th, 2006, 10:51 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mneblett
Love the post title!

I used to think the same thing -- then I blew my ACL. Without the EHC, I would likely not have been able to start riding again for literally several extra months -- June through August was bad enough as it was! There was no way I was going to either put the bike on the centerstand manually, nor lift it *off* the sidedstand (the surgery was on the left ACL) until the healing was much farther along. So, put me in the "convert" column

Don't worry -- if I really want to maintain centerstand-use proficiency, I'll practice on one of my wife's "old school" beemers
I'm glad you liked it! It was meant to entertain.
ACL sound very painful!

Regards,
John
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2000 K1200 LTC - Canyon Red
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post #21 of 24 Old Nov 14th, 2006, 6:25 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
Buy the newest LT you can afford. And if you're like me (I HATE chrome) stay away from the 'C' or 'E' model. The basic models without chrome look much nicer IMO. But, some guys actually think that chrome looks nice.

Joe:

I always bought the LTC model. I found that chrome don't get ya home, butt...... it does get ya laid! Dick
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post #22 of 24 Old Nov 14th, 2006, 6:38 am
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New or older?

I wouldn't be afraid to buy an older one, even back to 99 if the bike and its history checked out okay.

Model changes relating to options and add-on have been discussed by folks who remember this stuff much better than I do. Final drive and clutch slave failures are much discussed but really not all that common and wouldn't deter me from buying an earlier model.

A couple things you might want to consider are model changes that are significant to me:

Linked brakes came in at some point (someone else can tell you what year they started). I am glad I don't have them, if only for the reason that you need a dealership with the MoDiTec service computer to change the brake fluid.

Something I sometimes wish I did have is the power centerstand, that seems like a nice feature when the bike is loaded for a trip.

Happy hunting.
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post #23 of 24 Old Nov 14th, 2006, 7:47 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy-SC
I am looking at a 2000 K1200LT with 31K on the clock. The bike has had two owners and the current one just feels it is too big for him (he's a tad under 5'9") and is looking at a cruiser bike.

The tires are new (within the last 500 miles) and it was supposedly recently serviced at the local BMW shop (I guess I can check on that). Other than a few scrapes (none into the plastic itself), it looks to have been well cared for from the photos I've seen.

Now for the questions:

1) Do you know if I can call BMW or my local dealer with the VIN and see what the history is on the bike? Can they tell me what was done to the bike under warranty; i.e., some of the typical issues I have read about on the forums here?


2) On a 2000 model, anything in particular to focus on when giving it the once over?


3) I have not yet seen the bike and have talked to the guy's wife to get some answers. One that I wanted to know ahead of time is what is standard in terms of options on the bike. Heated grips? Heated seat? Computer? Stereo? Intercom? CD? etc.


4) Is NADA Guides the best source for determining a fair price for the bike?

Thanks in advance . . . .

Andy
Rock Hill, SC
To get back on track and answer your questions, while the other guys clown around.....


1) A dealer will be able to pull up the VIN and check all that. Not sure they will. Just have to call and ask, or stop by.

2) on the 2000, I'm not too sure, but check the normal things you;d check when buying any bike. Pay particular attn to the rear wheel and any play when wiggling the tire sided to side and up and down. Others can answer this better than me, hopefully.

3) I can't remember if you said it was custom or not. Not sure of options, but most everyone I have seen has the 6 cd changer. a 2000 will likely have the cassette pllayer in the dash. Heated grips and seat seem to be common. If the C model, it will have some chrome bits here and there. Bike computer seems common to all bikes. intercom option was on the I or E, or it may be dealer or aftermarket, if on the bike.

4) I like NADA a bit better than KBB. NC and SC seem to use NADA more.

Be mindful of the scrapes. Are they consistent with low speed falls? I looked at one that had a clutch lever with a "shaved" ball, but no other apparent damage. Owner admitted he had replaced the whole side of plastic when he bought it. Which to me said it went down at faster than walking speed. No owners manuals, etc. 14k miles, $11K. I passed on that one, but mainly because I found a better deal.

As with any vehicle purchase, be thorough and don;t let desire to have it override good buying practices.

Hope that helps a little. Check all the BMW dealer sites around for their used inventory too. Carolina in Greensboro had a couple at one time when I was looking.

Rando
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post #24 of 24 Old Nov 14th, 2006, 1:06 pm
 
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Cape Fear BMW in Wilmington had 2 used LT's the other day,, both looked pretty clean........Pete
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