Clutch is slipping - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 27 Old Feb 22nd, 2017, 1:58 am Thread Starter
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Clutch is slipping

Any chance there is an adjustment?
I'd rather not replace it if I don't have to.
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post #2 of 27 Old Feb 22nd, 2017, 3:28 am
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Re: Clutch is slipping

No!! if it's slipping its rooted!! I hope you are not slipping the clutch to start off, it will overheat, do not throttle on until the clutch is fully released, if it slips under full throttle in top gear the it time to replace the clutch

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post #3 of 27 Old Feb 22nd, 2017, 7:02 am
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Re: Clutch is slipping

Is there any oil leaking from around the clutch housing? You may want to drill a small hole in the bottom of the bellhousing and see if you get any oil out. Make sure you are not drilling into the engine or transmission by mistake. You didn't mention your year and mileage but if it is slipping, it is either contaminated from oil or worn out. Clutch is auto adjusting hydraulic.

Edit, aded a pic of where this small hole would be drilled to check for oil in teh clutch cavity.
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Gordon
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2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #4 of 27 Old Feb 22nd, 2017, 9:09 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Clutch is slipping

That's what I thought. I was just hoping.

It's a 2000 with 30K on it.
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post #5 of 27 Old Feb 22nd, 2017, 11:06 pm
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Re: Clutch is slipping

When mine slipped, the rear main seal was leaking. I would get a tiny puddle under the bike every night without a weep hole created. I had to install 2 clutches because the first one was bad due to the rear main seal leak and the second went bad due to the bearing in the tranny tore up and the clutch was totally destroyed with gear oil. It came out in pieces. What a stinky contaminated mess!!! After that I replace all of the bearing in the tranny and replaced all of the transmission seals. All is well now.
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post #6 of 27 Old Feb 22nd, 2017, 11:56 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Clutch is slipping

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Originally Posted by dvpadgett View Post
When mine slipped, the rear main seal was leaking. I would get a tiny puddle under the bike every night without a weep hole created. I had to install 2 clutches because the first one was bad due to the rear main seal leak and the second went bad due to the bearing in the tranny tore up and the clutch was totally destroyed with gear oil. It came out in pieces. What a stinky contaminated mess!!! After that I replace all of the bearing in the tranny and replaced all of the transmission seals. All is well now.
So while I'm in there just replace every seal in sight, make it like new and avoid any come backs
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post #7 of 27 Old Feb 23rd, 2017, 7:51 am
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Re: Clutch is slipping

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Originally Posted by trussell View Post
So while I'm in there just replace every seal in sight, make it like new and avoid any come backs
That is generally the idea, or at least a subset of those known to eventually fail and ruin your day. There is an O-ring that seals the clutch hosing around the inside of the output shaft and this should be replaced with a Viton one as the standard deteriorates with the high heat in that area and age and in many cases is the source of oil contamination of the clutch, not the rear main. Several people on the forum will send you one of those should you venture in.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #8 of 27 Old Feb 23rd, 2017, 10:54 am
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Re: Clutch is slipping

Quote:
Originally Posted by trussell View Post
That's what I thought. I was just hoping.

It's a 2000 with 30K on it.
Do you have a mechanical or hydraulic clutch? My RT is a 2000 and it started slipping on me. Turned out that the clutch cable was binding. I replaced the cable, performed the adjustment and it's ran perfect since.

2000 R1100RT
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post #9 of 27 Old Feb 23rd, 2017, 11:09 am
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Re: Clutch is slipping

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Originally Posted by Whiskey View Post
Do you have a mechanical or hydraulic clutch? My RT is a 2000 and it started slipping on me. Turned out that the clutch cable was binding. I replaced the cable, performed the adjustment and it's ran perfect since.
LT is hydraulic. No adjustment.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #10 of 27 Old Feb 23rd, 2017, 12:10 pm
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Re: Clutch is slipping

If you want a Viton Oring I'll send you one. I have the tools Clymer manual says to make that will help you. I lend those out.
Here is some reading for you on how to approach this job:
http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=38451
Parts will run you 4-600$ for a first class job. You will save many hundreds in shop labor costs if you are able to tackle it. Then you will have your great bike back in good condition for many more years of riding.

Beech
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post #11 of 27 Old Feb 23rd, 2017, 6:29 pm
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Re: Clutch is slipping

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Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
LT is hydraulic. No adjustment.
That's why I asked. Wasn't sure if he had an LT or RT.

2000 R1100RT
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post #12 of 27 Old Feb 23rd, 2017, 6:57 pm
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Re: Clutch is slipping

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Originally Posted by trussell View Post
So while I'm in there just replace every seal in sight, make it like new and avoid any come backs
Yep, and do it yourself unless you want to spend 2.5-3k at a dealer.
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post #13 of 27 Old Feb 24th, 2017, 3:54 pm
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Re: Clutch is slipping

Quote:
Originally Posted by beech View Post
If you want a Viton Oring I'll send you one. I have the tools Clymer manual says to make that will help you. I lend those out.
Here is some reading for you on how to approach this job:
http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=38451
Parts will run you 4-600$ for a first class job. You will save many hundreds in shop labor costs if you are able to tackle it. Then you will have your great bike back in good condition for many more years of riding.
I thought parts were more like $1000.00.Anyone have a current source.I bought a 2004LT when my 2001 LT started leaking.It's been on the lift for 2 years.Started tearing it down last week.Also would like to get some of those fancy o rings.
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post #14 of 27 Old Feb 24th, 2017, 8:11 pm
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Re: Clutch is slipping

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefMn View Post
I thought parts were more like $1000.00.Anyone have a current source.I bought a 2004LT when my 2001 LT started leaking.It's been on the lift for 2 years.Started tearing it down last week.Also would like to get some of those fancy o rings.
I think it depends if you order them yourself online or through the dealer. If I remember correctly I was quoted around 6-700 for parts.
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post #15 of 27 Old Feb 24th, 2017, 8:44 pm
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Re: Clutch is slipping

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefMn View Post
I thought parts were more like $1000.00.Anyone have a current source.I bought a 2004LT when my 2001 LT started leaking.It's been on the lift for 2 years.Started tearing it down last week.Also would like to get some of those fancy o rings.
If you replace everything including the major trans seals, it in March of last year was 954.46 plus tax and shipping from Max BMW based on a list I made then. It is likely more now but some things you may not have to replace. You can see the list at the link below. My pressure plate and housing cover had some dishing but not so much that I felt I needed to replace them. I did however replace the diaphragm spring and everything else on the list. I went with the oil resistant clutch from BBY over the OEM listed.


http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt/...arts-list.html

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #16 of 27 Old Feb 25th, 2017, 1:46 am Thread Starter
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Re: Clutch is slipping

Thanks for the list.
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post #17 of 27 Old Feb 25th, 2017, 7:14 am
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Re: Clutch is slipping

Thanks for the list.I guess I need to do some reading on how to check the pressure plate and housing cover.

Jeff Bokusky

Shoreview ,Mn.

2001 K1200LT ---
1973 Harley FLH 96 c.i.
1948 Harley EL 88 c.i.
1985 kawasaki KX250
1993 honda XR 200--
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post #18 of 27 Old Feb 25th, 2017, 8:58 am
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Re: Clutch is slipping

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Originally Posted by ChiefMn View Post
Thanks for the list.I guess I need to do some reading on how to check the pressure plate and housing cover.
It isn't difficult. A metal ruler or some other such straight edge that will reach across the radius of each is all you need. The wear that normally happens is called dishing and wears more in the inside than the outside. I think I had around 6 thousandths at the inner most point. It will have some bluing but if it wasn't severely overheated from slipping, it should clean up so you can get a good idea if any significant metal was moved around.
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Gordon
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2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #19 of 27 Old Feb 26th, 2017, 12:48 am Thread Starter
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Re: Clutch is slipping

Quote:
Originally Posted by beech View Post
If you want a Viton Oring I'll send you one. I have the tools Clymer manual says to make that will help you. I lend those out.
Here is some reading for you on how to approach this job:
http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=38451
Parts will run you 4-600$ for a first class job. You will save many hundreds in shop labor costs if you are able to tackle it. Then you will have your great bike back in good condition for many more years of riding.
I'd like one, but I'm still probably 2 weeks from pulling everything apart. Then I'll asses all the parts I need. I've rebuilt many bikes but never a bike like this. My last new clutch rebuild was on a cr 250 it costs me $70 in parts and I just tipped the bike over and did it in 20 min

I'm always slow the first time because I'm cautious. Once I get to know things it goes quicker.
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post #20 of 27 Old Feb 26th, 2017, 12:54 am Thread Starter
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Re: Clutch is slipping

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Originally Posted by ChiefMn View Post
I thought parts were more like $1000.00.Anyone have a current source.I bought a 2004LT when my 2001 LT started leaking.It's been on the lift for 2 years.Started tearing it down last week.Also would like to get some of those fancy o rings.
Hey Chief we should start a thread with a build off. Document our progress and see who gets done first. I'll be tearing mine down in about 2 weeks
I know at least for me it would go quicker that way.

There's a place called beemerboneyard.com that has many of the replacement parts so you don't have to pay 1K in parts
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post #21 of 27 Old Feb 26th, 2017, 2:11 am
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Re: Clutch is slipping

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Hey Chief we should start a thread with a build off. Document our progress and see who gets done first. I'll be tearing mine down in about 2 weeks
I know at least for me it would go quicker that way.

There's a place called beemerboneyard.com that has many of the replacement parts so you don't have to pay 1K in parts
Yes, BBY does have some of these parts like the basic plus clutch which is reported to be better than the stock and less than half the cost from the dealer when they have them in stock. The oil proof is about the same cost as the OEM which I went for. Not a requirement but more of a future proofing should I have done something wrong and it got contaminated again. Most of the rest have to come from the dealer though.

If you are going to do the trans seals, I recommend you get the slave seal from the dealer. It is an orange seal that is supposed to withstand both gear lube and brake fluid. The others can be second sourced if you want.
23 12 7 705 085 SHAFT SEAL, DRIVE SHAFT - 17X28X7 ( under slave cyl seal) $20.78 Current MAX BMW cost

Rear main engine seal is pre formed teflon so I also recommend that one from the dealer.
11 11 7 666 186 SHAFT SEAL - 50X80X10 ( rear main block seal behind clutch basket) $41.03 Current MAX BMW cost


If you two do end up doing a build off, we need plenty of pictures along the way.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #22 of 27 Old Feb 26th, 2017, 11:33 am
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Re: Clutch is slipping

Things like new clutch slave cylinder, throttle body intake seals, transmission seals (all of them) of course clutch parts if warped any more that a few thousandths, new friction disc, final drive swing bearings if needed all add up. Be very careful in picking seals, the OEM are sometimes specific with odd seal shapes. I have mixed feeling about changing out the main seal. It is not the one leaking and is generally if very good condition. It is hard not to do it though when you are right there. Send me a note of some kind if you would like a Viton Oring or the tools. The Clymer book and that thread of Gregs travels in seal territory will get you through. There are tricks to get things apart of course. And don't cut off those intake manifold clamps, they are "clic" clamps and should be reused.

Beech
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post #23 of 27 Old Feb 26th, 2017, 12:28 pm
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Re: Clutch is slipping

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Originally Posted by ChiefMn View Post
I thought parts were more like $1000.00.Anyone have a current source.I bought a 2004LT when my 2001 LT started leaking.It's been on the lift for 2 years.Started tearing it down last week.Also would like to get some of those fancy o rings.
Just finished up my "clutch" replacement - however ran me about $1500+ in parts

Ok full disclosure.... deferred maintenance at 120k - had to also replace all radiator hoses, throttle cables, breather tube at intake, swingarm bearings, rear drive bearings (ACK! $200 for the pair!), plus all clutch parts, trans seals and clutch slave (new - no Beemerboneyard ), exhaust gaskets, and a sundry of other misc. parts that I broke during the tear-down (make sure to disconnect that temp sensor before dropping the engine - DAMHIK!), plus a new riding jacket was required ...

Basically done except I have a fuel leak at those plastic fuel line disconnects (not broken - needs O-ring) and yes will replace with the good metal disconnects next time though - I was done spending money!

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post #24 of 27 Old Feb 27th, 2017, 3:29 pm
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Re: Clutch is slipping

Here is one someone posted a few months back. If you get yours apart and it looks as bad as this, just replace it. Compared to Voyagers plate which had almost no wear on it which would be serviceable again. There might be some discoloration but if it doesn't look like it has migrated metal around, it might clean up OK.
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2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #25 of 27 Old Feb 27th, 2017, 4:21 pm
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Re: Clutch is slipping

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Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
Here is one someone posted a few months back. If you get yours apart and it looks as bad as this, just replace it. Compared to Voyagers plate which had almost no wear on it which would be serviceable again. There might be some discoloration but if it doesn't look like it has migrated metal around, it might clean up OK.
I had my disk rebuilt and the wear surfaces machined by Southland Clutch. This was a big mistake. I had heard nothing but good about them, but my experience was not good. They had a bad rivet on the disk which incurred a two week delay for rework. And they machined the parts off axis enough that my clutch chatters if engaged below 1,500 rpm.

I sent them a video of the noise with the LT on the center stand. They sent my video to their "BMW expert" who replied that I had not connected the driveshaft and the noise wasn't clutch chatter, but rather the driveshaft banging around in the swing arm. I had ridden the bike so I knew that wasn't the case. I sent their "expert" another video showing the rear wheel turning as the noise occurred and shifted up and down through the gears. He then replied that he was an old airhead man and didn't really know the LT well.

So I should have cleaned up my parts, bought a new disk from BMW or BBY and been happy. Now I have to launch fairly hard to avoid chatter (yes, life is tough!) and will get to do this again when the clutch wears out early from the hard launches.

Do NOT have your parts machined. Use your originals if in good shape or buy new. Do NOT use Southland Clutch.
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post #26 of 27 Old Feb 27th, 2017, 8:25 pm
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Re: Clutch is slipping

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I had my disk rebuilt and the wear surfaces machined by Southland Clutch. This was a big mistake. I had heard nothing but good about them, but my experience was not good. They had a bad rivet on the disk which incurred a two week delay for rework. And they machined the parts off axis enough that my clutch chatters if engaged below 1,500 rpm.

I sent them a video of the noise with the LT on the center stand. They sent my video to their "BMW expert" who replied that I had not connected the driveshaft and the noise wasn't clutch chatter, but rather the driveshaft banging around in the swing arm. I had ridden the bike so I knew that wasn't the case. I sent their "expert" another video showing the rear wheel turning as the noise occurred and shifted up and down through the gears. He then replied that he was an old airhead man and didn't really know the LT well.

So I should have cleaned up my parts, bought a new disk from BMW or BBY and been happy. Now I have to launch fairly hard to avoid chatter (yes, life is tough!) and will get to do this again when the clutch wears out early from the hard launches.

Do NOT have your parts machined. Use your originals if in good shape or buy new. Do NOT use Southland Clutch.
Matt, yours was an interesting rebuild with all the detail you went through and wanting to reuse your existing plates with some machining. That is the first i had watched someone go through trying to machine the old plates. It is sad that what you got back was worse than what you sent in especially seeing how much work it is to remove it and send it back for a third time. It only takes a little bit of caring to make sure you do a job like resurfacing correctly. I agree, don't send anything to Southland.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #27 of 27 Old Feb 28th, 2017, 12:26 am
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Re: Clutch is slipping

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Matt, yours was an interesting rebuild with all the detail you went through and wanting to reuse your existing plates with some machining. That is the first i had watched someone go through trying to machine the old plates. It is sad that what you got back was worse than what you sent in especially seeing how much work it is to remove it and send it back for a third time. It only takes a little bit of caring to make sure you do a job like resurfacing correctly. I agree, don't send anything to Southland.
I was biased by prior experience working on off-road equipment (skidders, dozers, etc.) and OTR trucks where rebuilding disks and resurfacing flywheels and pressure plates was routine and virtually always successful. This isn't rocket science and I am amazed by the lack of quality control and basic machine operation at Southland. My parts were in good shape and rebuilding them should have been trivial for a competent shop.

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