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post #1 of 14 Old Nov 10th, 2006, 1:04 pm Thread Starter
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Question More Valve Adjustment Questions

Just spent several hours cruising this site and the old site's forums for info on valve checking and adjusting. Still have a couple of questions. (How many times does David have to explain the importance of proper valve clearance before people get it? - Sheesh.)

1) In Paul Sayegh's video he makes a big point about not reusing the valve buckets once they have been in service. He says they develop a wear pattern and should not be moved around or reused. Most of the advice here including a thread today suggests this is not a concern. Is he just being cautious?

2) When removing the camshafts the advice is to get the #1 piston into mid stroke to get the pistons clear of the valves and unload the valve train as much as possible. The procedure outlined is to get a stick and "feel" the piston position through the spark plug hole. There is also some strong advice not to remove the plugs until the valve train is closed up to reduce contamination. What's the best way to position the drivetrain without removing the plugs?

3) Once the chain is securely fastened to the camshaft sprockets and the shafts are removed is there any great concern about the chain slipping off the lower crankshaft sprocket or getting loose enough to skip a tooth? Is it well captured down there? I haven't read where this is a problem but it seems like something to worry about especially if some drivetrain rotation is required prior to reassembly of the camshafts.

I'm likely to dive into this tonight so I can run to the dealer tomorrow if I need buckets. These are just fine points, nothing critical as I probably won't need to get into adjustments anyway. Thanks.

Dan
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post #2 of 14 Old Nov 10th, 2006, 2:08 pm
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Valve adjustment 102

Quote:
Originally Posted by dglenn1
Just spent several hours cruising this site and the old site's forums for info on valve checking and adjusting. Still have a couple of questions. (How many times does David have to explain the importance of proper valve clearance before people get it? - Sheesh.)
Lots aparently, new members every day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dglenn1
1) In Paul Sayegh's video he makes a big point about not reusing the valve buckets once they have been in service. He says they develop a wear pattern and should not be moved around or reused. Most of the advice here including a thread today suggests this is not a concern. Is he just being cautious?
Darn good question. The Clymer manual says to check and see if the shims can be used in other locations.
Wouldn't new shims on an old cam cause the same uneven wear arangement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dglenn1
2) When removing the camshafts the advice is to get the #1 piston into mid stroke to get the pistons clear of the valves and unload the valve train as much as possible. The procedure outlined is to get a stick and "feel" the piston position through the spark plug hole. There is also some strong advice not to remove the plugs until the valve train is closed up to reduce contamination. What's the best way to position the drivetrain without removing the plugs?
Clymer shows a method of positioning the cams without removing the plugs. Just used this method on mine and it worked great. Hopefully someone with the manual can post the procedure. I have a severe case of CRS going on.

CRS = Can't Remember Sh*t

Quote:
Originally Posted by dglenn1
3) Once the chain is securely fastened to the camshaft sprockets and the shafts are removed is there any great concern about the chain slipping off the lower crankshaft sprocket or getting loose enough to skip a tooth? Is it well captured down there? I haven't read where this is a problem but it seems like something to worry about especially if some drivetrain rotation is required prior to reassembly of the camshafts.
Can't answer this one today, but can tell you Monday if it doesn't go back together properly. I have not turned the crank so I am under the presumtion of install the intake cam sprocket first then the exhaust. Hopefully more knowledgeable people will chime in. They may even support the fact that I am nuts

Quote:
Originally Posted by dglenn1
I'm likely to dive into this tonight so I can run to the dealer tomorrow if I need buckets. These are just fine points, nothing critical as I probably won't need to get into adjustments anyway. Thanks.
Good luck, and please review Dave Shealeys statements on what the clearances should be

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post #3 of 14 Old Nov 10th, 2006, 2:54 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbear
Clymer shows a method of positioning the cams without removing the plugs. Just used this method on mine and it worked great. Hopefully someone with the manual can post the procedure.
I have the Clymer so I'll check that out. Thanks for the responses.

Dan
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post #4 of 14 Old Nov 10th, 2006, 3:03 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dglenn1
1) In Paul Sayegh's video he makes a big point about not reusing the valve buckets once they have been in service. He says they develop a wear pattern and should not be moved around or reused. Most of the advice here including a thread today suggests this is not a concern. Is he just being cautious?
I reckon, we reuse them all the time, as do the dealers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dglenn1
2) When removing the camshafts the advice is to get the #1 piston into mid stroke to get the pistons clear of the valves and unload the valve train as much as possible. The procedure outlined is to get a stick and "feel" the piston position through the spark plug hole. There is also some strong advice not to remove the plugs until the valve train is closed up to reduce contamination. What's the best way to position the drivetrain without removing the plugs?
I have a #2 pencil that I've scribed with the both end points and the middle. The best way to position the drive train is to put the bike in 5th gear and rock the rear wheel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dglenn1
3) Once the chain is securely fastened to the camshaft sprockets and the shafts are removed is there any great concern about the chain slipping off the lower crankshaft sprocket or getting loose enough to skip a tooth? Is it well captured down there? I haven't read where this is a problem but it seems like something to worry about especially if some drivetrain rotation is required prior to reassembly of the camshafts.
You also zip tie the bottom sprocket. You rotate the camshafts to get the sprockets back on, not the drivetrain.



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post #5 of 14 Old Nov 10th, 2006, 3:09 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dglenn1
Just spent several hours cruising this site and the old site's forums for info on valve checking and adjusting. Still have a couple of questions. (How many times does David have to explain the importance of proper valve clearance before people get it? - Sheesh.)

1) In Paul Sayegh's video he makes a big point about not reusing the valve buckets once they have been in service. He says they develop a wear pattern and should not be moved around or reused. Most of the advice here including a thread today suggests this is not a concern. Is he just being cautious?
Overly cautious! The cams are ground with a very slight angle which causes the followers to slowly rotate around, and that distrubutes the wear evenly around the surface. If you ever pull one and see any straight line wear, meaning it did not rotate properly, then don't reuse it. If the pattern on the top of the follower is consistent, with no visible circular "ripples" on the surface, re-use it. Also, look at the cam lobes on their tips to be sure there is no undue wear there.

My dealer kept all the take outs, and would swap with users doing all their own work, no charge.
Quote:

2) When removing the camshafts the advice is to get the #1 piston into mid stroke to get the pistons clear of the valves and unload the valve train as much as possible. The procedure outlined is to get a stick and "feel" the piston position through the spark plug hole. There is also some strong advice not to remove the plugs until the valve train is closed up to reduce contamination.
You should never remove the plugs when you are going to check valve clearance, as any carbon particles that drop down into an open exhaust valve will cause you to get an incorrect measurement when you check that valve. If you are not checking valve clearance, then you can remove the plugs.
Quote:
What's the best way to position the drivetrain without removing the plugs?
You can never fully unload the camshaft, as there will always be some valves partially open, no matter the crank positon. You can always look at the cam lobes, move the engine until both intake lobes are pointing out toward you at about the same angle from centerline, which will be very near top dead center, then rotate the engine until the cams rotate about 45 degrees, which will put all four pistons about center of travel.
Quote:

3) Once the chain is securely fastened to the camshaft sprockets and the shafts are removed is there any great concern about the chain slipping off the lower crankshaft sprocket or getting loose enough to skip a tooth? Is it well captured down there? I haven't read where this is a problem but it seems like something to worry about especially if some drivetrain rotation is required prior to reassembly of the camshafts.
The chain is trapped by the housing around the crank sprocket, so will not come off.[/quote]

I'm likely to dive into this tonight so I can run to the dealer tomorrow if I need buckets. These are just fine points, nothing critical as I probably won't need to get into adjustments anyway. Thanks.[/QUOTE]

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post #6 of 14 Old Nov 10th, 2006, 3:29 pm
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Valve Check

Quote:
Originally Posted by dglenn1
Just spent several hours cruising this site and the old site's forums for info on valve checking and adjusting. Still have a couple of questions. (How many times does David have to explain the importance of proper valve clearance before people get it? - Sheesh.)

1) In Paul Sayegh's video he makes a big point about not reusing the valve buckets once they have been in service. He says they develop a wear pattern and should not be moved around or reused. Most of the advice here including a thread today suggests this is not a concern. Is he just being cautious?

2) When removing the camshafts the advice is to get the #1 piston into mid stroke to get the pistons clear of the valves and unload the valve train as much as possible. The procedure outlined is to get a stick and "feel" the piston position through the spark plug hole. There is also some strong advice not to remove the plugs until the valve train is closed up to reduce contamination. What's the best way to position the drivetrain without removing the plugs?

3) Once the chain is securely fastened to the camshaft sprockets and the shafts are removed is there any great concern about the chain slipping off the lower crankshaft sprocket or getting loose enough to skip a tooth? Is it well captured down there? I haven't read where this is a problem but it seems like something to worry about especially if some drivetrain rotation is required prior to reassembly of the camshafts.

I'm likely to dive into this tonight so I can run to the dealer tomorrow if I need buckets. These are just fine points, nothing critical as I probably won't need to get into adjustments anyway. Thanks.
Dan

I see you have a 2005 LT. Is this the first time you have checked the valves? I have a 2005 which now has 36,500 miles on it. I checked my valves at 12,500 miles and wrote down the clarence on each valve, which they were all in tolerance. The intakes were right on .007 except one and .007 was loose but .008 was tight could hardly get it in. All the exhaust were right on .011. I checked them again at 31,000 miles and they had not changed one bit. It would unlikely you will have to adjust them. I am just curious to see what you find.

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post #7 of 14 Old Nov 10th, 2006, 6:43 pm
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Think I'd verify the dealer has the new buckets you want before I'd start pulling stuff apart.

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post #8 of 14 Old Nov 10th, 2006, 6:59 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BecketMa
Think I'd verify the dealer has the new buckets you want before I'd start pulling stuff apart.

Bob
How do you know what buckets you want? I think David came up with this tip: Just drop to the next lowest buck. If your bucket is a 2.90, you can just drop to a 2.85. Don't have to mess with the formula.

Of course, there's no way of knowing what that bucket is until you pull it apart.



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post #9 of 14 Old Nov 10th, 2006, 7:14 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BecketMa
Think I'd verify the dealer has the new buckets you want before I'd start pulling stuff apart.

Bob
Unless you have done this before and kept a record of what buckets are in each position, there is no way to know what you will need without pulling the cams anyway. You have to pull the buckets out to see what size each is.

edited: OOPS, I see Grif already said that.

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post #10 of 14 Old Nov 11th, 2006, 6:42 am
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They may even support the fact that I am nuts.
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post #11 of 14 Old Nov 12th, 2006, 8:37 pm Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the replies. I got through it Saturday morning and was measuring the valves within an hour of starting. I have one exhaust valve that is less than half a thou tight (.0005") so I couldn't see diving into the valve train for that. The procedure is simple enough and I'll check them again when I do the 18k instead of waiting for 24k to keep an eye on it. I appreciated the replies and wanted to be prepared. If any of them needed adjustment I needed to get to the dealer that afternoon or I'd have to wait for Tuesday which could easily turn into after Thanksgiving with my current schedule.
I've torn down all the upper portion and changed the air filter. Was nice to take my time and clean up some PO wiring and repair some broken wiring I found. Took several iterations to get the tupperware back on straight but I have the procedure down now. Won't be anymore hesitation to dig in again.
Struggling with the trans fluid now, but I'll start a new thread if I can't get it soon. Stuck on removing the actuator to get to the drain plug. More later.

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post #12 of 14 Old Nov 13th, 2006, 6:04 am
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Stuck on removing the actuator to get to the drain plug. More later.
Hey Dan, you don't have to remove the actuator to get to the drain plug. Just the skid plate.



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post #13 of 14 Old Nov 13th, 2006, 9:00 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Hey Dan, you don't have to remove the actuator to get to the drain plug. Just the skid plate.
Thanks, I'll look at it a little closer tonight.

Dan
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post #14 of 14 Old Nov 13th, 2006, 3:26 pm
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You do have to remove the muffler hanger, though.



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