throttle body - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 11 Old Dec 7th, 2016, 12:15 pm Thread Starter
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throttle body

hello again
Have bike stripped down looking for performance problems. Kind of a tough one. Bike starts great, runs ok but occasionally runs real good. Had a friend drive it and he seemed to think it was running on three cylinders and then four when it really goes.
I have had, injectors changed and serviced.
New spark plug wires and plugs installed.
have had a new throttle positioner and throttle potentiometer replaced. Set and adjusted at BMW in Merida Mexico, guy had a hell of a time with the potentiometer even with modec hooked up
I do not believe bike has ever been quite right. Probably about 70 k miles on a 1999 model
Almost forgot to mention, fuel pump, filter and fuel strainer all changed, arrow on filter going the right way. Fuel pressure is correct.

Pulled plugs today and number one cylinder seemed to be a cross between carbon and some oil maybe not terrible and not wet but different than other 3
Did compression test (engine warmed up) and all are good at 145 when turned over enough to build max pressure

only thing I noticed is that there seems to be an oil build up , more on the outside of number one and four on the throttle body, inside of throttle body seems to be some oil, not much but you can see it is there.
Air box did not have clamps holding it to the throttle body.
Throttle body to intake clamps seem tight.
Possible number one injector getting intermediate juice? connector seems good.
I should mention I have read 20 hours at least of similar incidents on this great forum, retired so have plenty of time. Great input from members. BMW seems to have it,s fair share of gremlins.
Any ideas please?

Last edited by mexicoboy; Dec 7th, 2016 at 1:49 pm.
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post #2 of 11 Old Dec 7th, 2016, 2:00 pm
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Re: throttle body

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Originally Posted by mexicoboy View Post
hello again
Have bike stripped down looking for performance problems. Kind of a tough one. Bike starts great, runs ok but occasionally runs real good. Had a friend drive it and he seemed to think it was running on three cylinders and then four when it really goes.
I have had, injectors changed and serviced.
New spark plug wires and plugs installed.
have had a new throttle positioner and throttle potentiometer replaced. Set and adjusted at BMW in Merida Mexico, guy had a hell of a time with the potentiometer even with modec hooked up
I do not believe bike has ever been quite right. Probably about 70 k miles on a 1999 model
Almost forgot to mention, fuel pump, filter and fuel strainer all changed, arrow on filter going the right way. Fuel pressure is correct.

Pulled plugs today and number one cylinder seemed to be a cross between carbon and some oil maybe not terrible and not wet but different than other 3
Did compression test (engine warmed up) and all are good at 145 when turned over enough to build max pressure

only thing I noticed is that there seems to be an oil build up , more on the outside of number one and four on the throttle body, inside of throttle body seems to be some oil, not much but you can see it is there.
Air box did not have clamps holding it to the throttle body.
Throttle body to intake clamps seem tight.
Possible number one injector getting intermediate juice? connector seems good.
I should mention I have read 20 hours at least of similar incidents on this great forum, retired so have plenty of time. Great input from members. BMW seems to have it,s fair share of gremlins.
Any ideas please?
Has the oxygen sensor been replaced recently?

Can you describe symptoms in more detail? Is the poor performance completely random? Does it occur at low vs. high rpm? At nearly closed throttle or at more open throttle? Any weather correlation to damp vs. dry, cold vs. warm, etc.?

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
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post #3 of 11 Old Dec 7th, 2016, 4:39 pm
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Re: throttle body

A GS911 real time report would do wonders for seeing what is going on with the bike. Is there any chance you can find one to borrow.

You mention the tech had a tough time with the potentiometer. I have read some threads on the potentiometer adjustments really affecting how a bike runs. If the guy botched it, it may be something to look at again. Did the bike change any after you had that done?

Oil in the throttle body bores is not uncommon as the crank case vent comes in on the back side above the butterfly valves so oil vapor condenses on them. Oil in the #1 plug could be valve seals leaking oil past them.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #4 of 11 Old Dec 8th, 2016, 12:13 pm Thread Starter
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Re: throttle body

Hey guys, appreciate your input. I had two questions going so I will drop the battery one, sorry.
Now I am back to performance issues. I forgot to mention that I changed the O2 sensor before. The bike seeming to become supercharged, which apparently is when it hits perfection. This can occur at any RPM range. Typically upon full throttle roll on. I know it sounds as if I am not describing it correctly but I have owned the bike for three years now. Not having another one to drive , living in Mexico (where close is good enough) I never have felt the true performance of the bike.
That is unless when it is hitting on all four just right it is pretty powerful. Sad huh?
Also temperature here is almost always in the 80 to 90 range, no cold days. At one point I removed the air temp sensor from the air box, no change.
Not sure if relevant but I have to let it warm up 4 or 5 minutes to get it to perform correctly.

The mechanic here tied the gas tank off to the side with fuel hoses hooked up and ran the bike. I am doing the same so I have access to the throttle body.
When trying to adjust the potentiometer he would get it into range, barely. It seemed as if he wanted to try to get it a little better but only moving it slightly it fell too far out of range, relative to movement. I am not sure that makes sense, my observation.
I had ordered a used throttle body from E-bay and may just try to change it out and see how it performs.
May try to get the gs 911 shipped down here and get results, got nothing but time here in mañana land.
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post #5 of 11 Old Dec 8th, 2016, 2:19 pm
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Re: throttle body

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Originally Posted by mexicoboy View Post
Hey guys, appreciate your input. I had two questions going so I will drop the battery one, sorry.
Now I am back to performance issues. I forgot to mention that I changed the O2 sensor before. The bike seeming to become supercharged, which apparently is when it hits perfection. This can occur at any RPM range. Typically upon full throttle roll on. I know it sounds as if I am not describing it correctly but I have owned the bike for three years now. Not having another one to drive , living in Mexico (where close is good enough) I never have felt the true performance of the bike.
That is unless when it is hitting on all four just right it is pretty powerful. Sad huh?
Also temperature here is almost always in the 80 to 90 range, no cold days. At one point I removed the air temp sensor from the air box, no change.
Not sure if relevant but I have to let it warm up 4 or 5 minutes to get it to perform correctly.

The mechanic here tied the gas tank off to the side with fuel hoses hooked up and ran the bike. I am doing the same so I have access to the throttle body.
When trying to adjust the potentiometer he would get it into range, barely. It seemed as if he wanted to try to get it a little better but only moving it slightly it fell too far out of range, relative to movement. I am not sure that makes sense, my observation.
I had ordered a used throttle body from E-bay and may just try to change it out and see how it performs.
May try to get the gs 911 shipped down here and get results, got nothing but time here in mañana land.
OK, a couple more questions. When you say it needs to warm up, what does it do? does it fail to idle for 4 - 5 minutes until warm and no change in that behavior with the temp sensor removed? Or is it just worse performance for 5 minutes while you ride it?

If the potentiometer was difficult to get into adjustment, it is possible that the adjustment screws have been messed with on the TB and it is not at a true properly adjusted idle stop position. How and where does it idle? Setting up a TB is not an easy task.

A miss would be very pronounced on a 4 cyl engine. Have you done any testing in pulling spark plug wires while it is running just to make sure it is firing on all 4 at least at idle? If you found one that made no difference, it would indicate one cyl not firing.

Does your bike have the brown wire under the seat and has it been cut or has the cat code plug under the passenger seat been removed? GS911 test would tell us that in the ECU part number listing if the dual map ECU was installed.

Do you know if the hall effect sensor for the engine ignition timing has been adjusted or replaced?

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #6 of 11 Old Dec 8th, 2016, 5:53 pm Thread Starter
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Re: throttle body

well, trying to answer your question,s
Today I started it again, miss seems to be getting worse. It constantly is searching for proper idle speed. Idles around 700 to 1000, some kind of noise in the engine that seems to change as it does so. It will idle ok as soon as I start it, however if I try to go it hesitates and dies till slightly warmer.
Volt meter on battery constantly watching it, starts out ok. About 12.40 at idle, went to 12.70 around 1500 rpm. Then started running rough and volt meter showing 11.78 or so. Put lead on back of alternator and shows 13.20. back to battery 11.80.
Seems to be some kind of electrical drag on battery, almost as if starter is hung. It is not but same kind of draw down. Weird.
I am guessing without the GS911 I will never find what is going on.
Can the Hall Mark sensor get faulty and draw volts down like I am experiencing? I do not know if it was ever adjusted. I do know that when I had my melt down a wire to the Hallmark burned the worse.
I understand what you mean about setting either the tps or the potentiometer, definitely need it on computer to do so.
Seems as if whatever is going on it is fixing to reveal itself by failing.
Tonight I will pull plug wires while running and check for effect.
Not sure about the cat code plug
Did pull wires one at a time, number one no change, others drastic change.Good spark thru wire and good spark at plug when grounded against frame. Gotta be an injector problem I am guessing as compression test showed ok.
Number one plug was worst and number one cylinder pumped up a little slower than others but not by much.
Thank you for input

Last edited by mexicoboy; Dec 8th, 2016 at 6:40 pm. Reason: add to post
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post #7 of 11 Old Dec 8th, 2016, 7:27 pm
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Re: throttle body

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Originally Posted by mexicoboy View Post
well, trying to answer your question,s
Today I started it again, miss seems to be getting worse. It constantly is searching for proper idle speed. Idles around 700 to 1000, some kind of noise in the engine that seems to change as it does so. It will idle ok as soon as I start it, however if I try to go it hesitates and dies till slightly warmer.
Volt meter on battery constantly watching it, starts out ok. About 12.40 at idle, went to 12.70 around 1500 rpm. Then started running rough and volt meter showing 11.78 or so. Put lead on back of alternator and shows 13.20. back to battery 11.80.
Seems to be some kind of electrical drag on battery, almost as if starter is hung. It is not but same kind of draw down. Weird.
I am guessing without the GS911 I will never find what is going on.
Can the Hall Mark sensor get faulty and draw volts down like I am experiencing? I do not know if it was ever adjusted. I do know that when I had my melt down a wire to the Hallmark burned the worse.
I understand what you mean about setting either the tps or the potentiometer, definitely need it on computer to do so.
Seems as if whatever is going on it is fixing to reveal itself by failing.
Tonight I will pull plug wires while running and check for effect.
Not sure about the cat code plug


Did pull wires one at a time, number one no change, others drastic change.Good spark thru wire and good spark at plug when grounded against frame. Gotta be an injector problem I am guessing as compression test showed ok.
Number one plug was worst and number one cylinder pumped up a little slower than others but not by much.
Thank you for input
That is a lot of loss between the alternator and the battery. What John Zeller said about the frame grounded to the battery and causing the ABS motor to run all the time may be something to look further into. The starter running all the time is usually a fused starter relay and it runs whether the key is on or off and runs the battery down.

It may be easier to swap the #1 and #2 injectors and then do the plug wire pull again and see if it moves to #2 or stays with #1. That would eliminate an injector versus electrical wiring for the injector or possibly bad drivers in the ECU. Question, is this the same ECU that was on the bike when the harness burned up or is it new also?

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #8 of 11 Old Dec 9th, 2016, 10:19 am Thread Starter
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Re: throttle body

I finally fixed something. Turned out i would put the probe on the alternator bolt when checkin output. Just happened to place it on the cable where it bolted to the alternator. Big difference, turned out to be loose inside the connector. Took it off and soldered it again as it is a double wire connector.
Now 13.30 volts to the battery. You know you read about this every where on this forum, loose connectors, etc geeeeeeez.

Ok I will change injectors and do the plug thing again, excellent idea. Will take a few days. oh almost forgot, it is the same ECU unit, comp shows new harness and frame number when they checked it. At least I think it is the same as before. New ECU came with the harness but knowing them it was a small step not taken.
Work was done by BMW in Cancun Mexico.They did not install some parts I purchased and lost? others. Assholes
Once again thanks for listening
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post #9 of 11 Old Dec 9th, 2016, 2:48 pm Thread Starter
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Re: throttle body

Well I finally got it. Motorcycle runs on four cylinders for possibly first time since I have owned it.
Huge shout out to BMWcook 1200 for pointing me in the right direction.
Also I am glad I did as clymer suggested, take a picture first.
What I found as I was changing injectors from number one to number two cylinder is this: the extremely stupid basssss$$%%^&#$%^ that had worked on it before it ever went to any BMW dealer had used the wrong wire on the number one injector.
How is that possible? Well on a 1999 out of the same harness there is an exact same type plug that goes to the Pulse Valve. Different color wires of course and nobody ever caught it. Does not seem possible especially after spending numerous hours, days even at two different BMW shops. Bike was put on the Moditec computer in Merida but was not noticed I guess. Once again assholes!!!!!!!
Also how could I not know something was that wrong? Better not answer that one hahahahah.
Possibly occasionally there was a spark to the pulse valve that allowed the injector to do it,s job. Will never know.
All I can say is thank you forum members
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post #10 of 11 Old Dec 9th, 2016, 3:11 pm
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Re: throttle body

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Originally Posted by mexicoboy View Post
Well I finally got it. Motorcycle runs on four cylinders for possibly first time since I have owned it.
Huge shout out to BMWcook 1200 for pointing me in the right direction.
Also I am glad I did as clymer suggested, take a picture first.
What I found as I was changing injectors from number one to number two cylinder is this: the extremely stupid basssss$$%%^&#$%^ that had worked on it before it ever went to any BMW dealer had used the wrong wire on the number one injector.
How is that possible? Well on a 1999 out of the same harness there is an exact same type plug that goes to the Pulse Valve. Different color wires of course and nobody ever caught it. Does not seem possible especially after spending numerous hours, days even at two different BMW shops. Bike was put on the Moditec computer in Merida but was not noticed I guess. Once again assholes!!!!!!!
Also how could I not know something was that wrong? Better not answer that one hahahahah.
Possibly occasionally there was a spark to the pulse valve that allowed the injector to do it,s job. Will never know.
All I can say is thank you forum members
Excellent news. Not sure that was your only issue with the battery light coming on dimly but I bet it runs a whole lot better.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #11 of 11 Old Dec 11th, 2016, 9:54 am
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Re: throttle body

Great News. Yes all years have the potential for some one to hook up the pulse valve to an injector. Something to watch out for. Also along those lines if you do not "latch" the connector to the injector it may make contact part of the time. After my clutch job my bike ran fine until I got above 4,000 rpm, then it ran like crap. It would smooth out below 4,000. I was up at the event in the Mountains and I pulled off the side panel and started tugging on wires and sure enough #1 connector pulled right off. Once I had it "locked" back on no more issues.

John
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2009 R1200GS (Gone)
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