One step closer - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 20 Old Dec 3rd, 2016, 7:59 pm Thread Starter
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One step closer

I just read in BMW ON that the new K1600 GT (no mention of GTL), will have reverse assist for 2017. If they include that for the GTL, and it would seem silly not to, that gets it one step closer to being my future LT replacement.

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2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #2 of 20 Old Dec 3rd, 2016, 8:04 pm
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Re: One step closer

Reverse, shift assist, hill assist, key less entry and much more to come on the 2017 model GTL's. See you at BMW K1600 Forum : BMW K1600 GT and GTL Forums

2013 BMW Damask Red K1600GTL
2014 BMW K1600GTL-E EXCLUSIVE
2001 Honda C-250 Helix
SOLD 2006 BMW K-1200LT "The Manatee"

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post #3 of 20 Old Dec 3rd, 2016, 9:29 pm
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Re: One step closer

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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
I just read in BMW ON that the new K1600 GT (no mention of GTL), will have reverse assist for 2017. If they include that for the GTL, and it would seem silly not to, that gets it one step closer to being my future LT replacement.

I've only missed reverse gear on my LT once so far on my GTLE, and not by much. Apparently, the new GT's have changed the reverse gear controls drastically from the LT's hard to reach lower knob to a the handlebar. That, and shift assist would be the only thing that would attract me to the new '17's. One feature I really like (besides the incredible power), is hill start assist, as I use it every time I leave my garage. As long as you pay attention and plan your parking, reverse gear is unnecessary.

Dave Beck
'16 K1600GTLE
'07 K1200LT (sold 9/24/16)
'74 Suzuki GT750L (long, long gone)


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post #4 of 20 Old Dec 3rd, 2016, 10:11 pm Thread Starter
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Re: One step closer

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I've only missed reverse gear on my LT once so far on my GTLE, and not by much. Apparently, the new GT's have changed the reverse gear controls drastically from the LT's hard to reach lower knob to a the handlebar. That, and shift assist would be the only thing that would attract me to the new '17's. One feature I really like (besides the incredible power), is hill start assist, as I use it every time I leave my garage. As long as you pay attention and plan your parking, reverse gear is unnecessary.
True. 160 HP is unnecessary. Electrically adjustable windshield is unnecessary. Heated seats and handgrips are unnecessary. Etc.
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2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #5 of 20 Old Dec 3rd, 2016, 10:35 pm
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Re: One step closer

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Originally Posted by SmokinJoe View Post
Reverse, shift assist, hill assist, key less entry and much more to come on the 2017 model GTL's. See you at BMW K1600 Forum : BMW K1600 GT and GTL Forums
Oh man, I can't wait until 2027 to buy one of these super cool 2017 GTL models!
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Current Ride: '02 LT - The Mistress
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post #6 of 20 Old Dec 4th, 2016, 7:03 am
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Re: One step closer

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Oh man, I can't wait until 2027 to buy one of these super cool 2017 GTL models!
By then they may FLY!

2013 BMW Damask Red K1600GTL
2014 BMW K1600GTL-E EXCLUSIVE
2001 Honda C-250 Helix
SOLD 2006 BMW K-1200LT "The Manatee"

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post #7 of 20 Old Dec 4th, 2016, 8:26 am Thread Starter
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Re: One step closer

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Originally Posted by guitarjim View Post
Oh man, I can't wait until 2027 to buy one of these super cool 2017 GTL models!


I hope to be a little ahead of you. I hope to get to 100,000 on my LT to make the clutch job worth the effort. At my current riding rate, that will be 2022.

Still not sure I want another BMW and would prefer to move back to Kawasaki (had three prior to my LT), but if the Vulcan "cruiser" Voyager is still the best they have then, I will likely go with a GTLE.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #8 of 20 Old Dec 5th, 2016, 1:47 pm
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Re: One step closer

I'm a little disappointed with the current Voyager. I think they should have used the concours motor. And besides. It feels very top heavy to me

2004 K1200LT. Big Mama
1999 Suzuki Intruder VL1500LC. Betty Lou.
I'm a 4 percenter.
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post #9 of 20 Old Dec 5th, 2016, 1:58 pm
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Re: One step closer

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinJoe View Post
Reverse, shift assist, hill assist, key less entry and much more to come on the 2017 model GTL's. See you at BMW K1600 Forum : BMW K1600 GT and GTL Forums
How about the K1600B? Seems silly not to but maybe they have a price point.

MarkF
2009 K1200LT

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post #10 of 20 Old Dec 5th, 2016, 2:44 pm Thread Starter
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Re: One step closer

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Originally Posted by james216 View Post
I'm a little disappointed with the current Voyager. I think they should have used the concours motor. And besides. It feels very top heavy to me
I was a lot disappointed! I sold my 87 Voyager XII in 2004 based on rumors Kawasaki had been feeding to the AVA for some time. The AVA was coy with what they said they were allowed to share, but it certainly seemed like an updated XII was in the works and most were betting on a Concours 14 engine in a touring tuned configuration. Then the delays began and the AVA seemed to be getting less and less information.

I finally got tired of the waiting and the excuses for the delays (I was expecting a super modern bike by then!) and bought my LT. When they finally released the cruiser Voyager in 2009, I was very glad I bought the LT in 2007. I still can't believe it took 5 years to add cruise control and bags to a Vulcan! That should have been a 1 year project at most ... including road testing!

I am still hoping for a GTL with LT passenger comfort. And it would be nice to eliminate the "afterthought" look of the bags and, especially, the bouncy trunk. My wife hates the GTLE as compared to our LT. Night and day difference. And the Gold Wing is even better than the LT for passenger comfort, albeit only slightly, but I wouldn't be caught dead on a Wing so that isn't an option.

The addition of reverse to the 2017 GT (and hopefully the GTL) is encouraging. Now just add some wind protection to the GTL, a better seat, lower the passenger seat relative to the pilot seat, and add passenger audio controls and I will trade in my LT. I would really like to see an EHCS, but I can live without that given that I can use the side stand on the K1600 without smoking up the neighborhood on the next start.

And no need to repeat the "just spend $2,000" on aftermarket parts and you can make the $30,000 GTL ALMOST as comfortable as the LT. That is just nuts. BMW should fix the GTL. They already have a solo touring bike in the GT. Make the GTL the two-up touring bike it should be. Why have two models optimized for solo riders?
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2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #11 of 20 Old Dec 5th, 2016, 8:52 pm
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Re: One step closer

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Originally Posted by SmokinJoe View Post
By then they may FLY!
Self stabilization and computer controlled riding in 2027 will definitely have me wanting to be in the 2017 model. Now, if we can fly...

Current Ride: '02 LT - The Mistress
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post #12 of 20 Old Dec 5th, 2016, 8:55 pm
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Re: One step closer

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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post


I hope to be a little ahead of you. I hope to get to 100,000 on my LT to make the clutch job worth the effort. At my current riding rate, that will be 2022.

Still not sure I want another BMW and would prefer to move back to Kawasaki (had three prior to my LT), but if the Vulcan "cruiser" Voyager is still the best they have then, I will likely go with a GTLE.
Oh man, I really like the LT. I guess I could test ride a bunch of other bikes and enjoy that but it seems lots of people keep coming back to the BMW after riding others.

Current Ride: '02 LT - The Mistress
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post #13 of 20 Old Dec 6th, 2016, 10:51 am Thread Starter
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Re: One step closer

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Oh man, I really like the LT. I guess I could test ride a bunch of other bikes and enjoy that but it seems lots of people keep coming back to the BMW after riding others.
Has your FD or clutch failed yet?

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #14 of 20 Old Dec 6th, 2016, 9:38 pm
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Re: One step closer

I had an '07 LT also, but didn't have any final drive or clutch failure issues on a 47,000 mile bike. I did have the tank suction/fuel float level indicator problem after I crimped the canister fuel line, and the shifter linkage fall apart in Indianapolis during a 25 state/25 day tour. Other than those two issues, no problems with regular maintenance (brake/clutch/ABS bleeds, oil/filter changes, etc.

Now, I don't worry about final drive, wearing out the dry clutch by using the clutch friction zone or seal leak, or a potential ABS system failure, as I have a new GTLE (with a 3 year warranty). I loved my LT, but also invested $6K in farkels (Speiglers, Jiffy Tite QDs, Garmin 590LM with TPMS, Yacugar springs/shocks, RDL seat with backrest, PIAAs, FIBIB's top case kit, V-Stream windshield, 4 piece luggage set, rear brake light flasher, etc.), and have only added an RDL, and front and rear crash bars (engine side case protection bars for those concerned with being politically correct). Unfortunately, I was bitten by the horsepower bug on the way to the '15 CCR, after riding solo up with a couple on a K1600GT. Hated to see the LT go, but very happy with my replacement...

Dave Beck
'16 K1600GTLE
'07 K1200LT (sold 9/24/16)
'74 Suzuki GT750L (long, long gone)


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post #15 of 20 Old Dec 6th, 2016, 9:59 pm Thread Starter
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Re: One step closer

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Originally Posted by JNW003 View Post
I had an '07 LT also, but didn't have any final drive or clutch failure issues on a 47,000 mile bike. I did have the tank suction/fuel float level indicator problem after I crimped the canister fuel line, and the shifter linkage fall apart in Indianapolis during a 25 state/25 day tour. Other than those two issues, no problems with regular maintenance (brake/clutch/ABS bleeds, oil/filter changes, etc.

Now, I don't worry about final drive, wearing out the dry clutch by using the clutch friction zone or seal leak, or a potential ABS system failure, as I have a new GTLE (with a 3 year warranty). I loved my LT, but also invested $6K in farkels (Speiglers, Jiffy Tite QDs, Garmin 590LM with TPMS, Yacugar springs/shocks, RDL seat with backrest, PIAAs, FIBIB's top case kit, V-Stream windshield, 4 piece luggage set, rear brake light flasher, etc.), and have only added an RDL, and front and rear crash bars (engine side case protection bars for those concerned with being politically correct). Unfortunately, I was bitten by the horsepower bug on the way to the '15 CCR, after riding solo up with a couple on a K1600GT. Hated to see the LT go, but very happy with my replacement...
I would likely feel more inclined towards the GTL if i only rode solo. I ride two-up for probably 40% of my rides, but probably 75% of my miles. And my wife, after spending a month on two rentals in Europe and the U.K., GTL and GTLE, respectively, finds the LT vastly superior.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #16 of 20 Old Dec 6th, 2016, 11:28 pm
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Re: One step closer

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Has your FD or clutch failed yet?
Nope, not yet. I have looked at a lot of posts about this. I figure the failure rate is actually low. My now has about 70k on it. It seems these bikes like to have miles put on them. If they sit too much, the bikes aren't so happy.

Oh well, I have a repair fund for the bike set aside - it could become part of a replace fund if need be with the selling off of the bike or parts or something.

Current Ride: '02 LT - The Mistress
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post #17 of 20 Old Dec 7th, 2016, 7:24 am Thread Starter
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Re: One step closer

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Nope, not yet. I have looked at a lot of posts about this. I figure the failure rate is actually low. My now has about 70k on it. It seems these bikes like to have miles put on them. If they sit too much, the bikes aren't so happy.

Oh well, I have a repair fund for the bike set aside - it could become part of a replace fund if need be with the selling off of the bike or parts or something.
I was more predisposed to BMW until I had a very bad experience with the dealer where I bought it, had the FD fail at under 30,000 miles (pinion seal) and the transmission in the same timeframe (all three rotating shaft seals began leaking), and finally the clutch after the gear oil got to it.

I see BMW as just another brand now. A brand with more technology, but less reliability and vastly higher parts cost than Kawasaki and with a far inferior dealer network both in number and customer service.

If I had to buy a bike tomorrow, not really sure what I would buy. Probably a GTL Exclusive, but I would look closely at the Triumph Trophy (same dealer issues) and Yamaha FJR1300. I test rode an FJR a couple years ago and it was a sweet ride (solo) with a great local dealer, but not suitable for two-up in stock form. It would need a new seat, trunk and bigger windshield - basically the same modifications (except trunk) as the GTL needs to get closer to the LT. However, for $10,000 less than a GTL, I think it could be a great touring mount, though not up to LT standards, but pretty close to GTL.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #18 of 20 Old Dec 8th, 2016, 10:28 pm
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Re: One step closer

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I was more predisposed to BMW until I had a very bad experience with the dealer where I bought it, had the FD fail at under 30,000 miles (pinion seal) and the transmission in the same timeframe (all three rotating shaft seals began leaking), and finally the clutch after the gear oil got to it.

I see BMW as just another brand now. A brand with more technology, but less reliability and vastly higher parts cost than Kawasaki and with a far inferior dealer network both in number and customer service.

If I had to buy a bike tomorrow, not really sure what I would buy. Probably a GTL Exclusive, but I would look closely at the Triumph Trophy (same dealer issues) and Yamaha FJR1300. I test rode an FJR a couple years ago and it was a sweet ride (solo) with a great local dealer, but not suitable for two-up in stock form. It would need a new seat, trunk and bigger windshield - basically the same modifications (except trunk) as the GTL needs to get closer to the LT. However, for $10,000 less than a GTL, I think it could be a great touring mount, though not up to LT standards, but pretty close to GTL.
Dealers are like hair stylists - it can be hard to find a good one. I do my best to work with dealerships as little as possible.

Current Ride: '02 LT - The Mistress
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post #19 of 20 Old Dec 9th, 2016, 8:47 am Thread Starter
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Re: One step closer

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Dealers are like hair stylists - it can be hard to find a good one. I do my best to work with dealerships as little as possible.
I try to support local dealers when it makes reasonable sense. However, when the service manager tells you that if you want to work on your own motorcycle, you should buy all the special tools he has to buy and do ALL of your own work and then hangs up on you, it makes it easy not to patronize that dealer anymore. And this was after paying them for all services up through the 12K service.

My next nearest BMW dealer is Kissell in State College, PA (~120 miles distant) and I've heard mostly good about them so far. I will try them next time if I am unable to find a reasonable alternative brand when my LT needs to be put out to pasture.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #20 of 20 Old Dec 9th, 2016, 4:30 pm
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Re: One step closer

I am 2 1/2 hours from a BMW bike dealership. I like to give local people a shot to earn my business if they are priced competitively but if they aren't, I move on. Fortunately, I have some friends that like to take on mechanical challenges and even more fortunately, I have avoided any major mechanical challenges...don't get me started on chasing down electrical problems...ugh, i hate that!

My dad takes his 5-series to the dealer in his city for everything. In the time it takes him to drive to the dealer for an oil change, I have the oil change done and am ready to hit the road. But, my dad likes hanging out at the dealer looking over and sitting in the latest models, drinking some coffee and talking with the locals while he waits on his car.

Current Ride: '02 LT - The Mistress
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