Issue after going to sleep on left side - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 29 Old Nov 22nd, 2016, 10:01 pm Thread Starter
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Issue after going to sleep on left side

Well, after three weeks of ownership, a 2009 model with 43k on the clock, I have now experienced my LT going to sleep. Actually it was the result of me temporarily losing concentration / freaking out, while parking. I believe that I turned the wheel to the left and touched the front brake while moving at less than 1 mph.

Over she went.

No damage to anything but my ego.


She rested on the left side for about 5 minutes until I found some muscle to help me right her.

About an hour later, I returned to drive her home.

That is when some damage evidenced itself in the way of a "no crank, no start" condition.
All I got was a click, dimming dash and headlight, and a feeling that something wanted to turn but didnt.

Checked to be sure I was in neutral, checked position of kill switch, checked status of anti-theft immobilizer, pulled up the side stand, even pulled in the clutch.

Prior to this episode of narcolepsy, the bike was flawless offering no hint of any mechanical or electrical issue.

It is currently in a parking garage, likely to be towed in to a shop tomorrow for further evaluation next week.

Anybody experienced this sort of event, not the sleeping, but the no start after sleeping?
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post #2 of 29 Old Nov 22nd, 2016, 10:30 pm
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side

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Originally Posted by edorazio View Post
Well, after three weeks of ownership, a 2009 model with 43k on the clock, I have now experienced my LT going to sleep. Actually it was the result of me temporarily losing concentration / freaking out, while parking. I believe that I turned the wheel to the left and touched the front brake while moving at less than 1 mph.

Over she went.

No damage to anything but my ego.


She rested on the left side for about 5 minutes until I found some muscle to help me right her.

About an hour later, I returned to drive her home.

That is when some damage evidenced itself in the way of a "no crank, no start" condition.
All I got was a click, dimming dash and headlight, and a feeling that something wanted to turn but didnt.

Checked to be sure I was in neutral, checked position of kill switch, checked status of anti-theft immobilizer, pulled up the side stand, even pulled in the clutch.

Prior to this episode of narcolepsy, the bike was flawless offering no hint of any mechanical or electrical issue.

It is currently in a parking garage, likely to be towed in to a shop tomorrow for further evaluation next week.

Anybody experienced this sort of event, not the sleeping, but the no start after sleeping?
Where to start. Well, first thing to check is do you hear the fuel pump prime when you turn on the ignition. That would tell you that the interlocks are all OK and it sounds like they might be because of the dimming of the lights you mention. The pump should run for a few seconds and then shut off. If you don't hear that, then it could be one of the interlock switches like the side stand switch but the lights would not dim if one of the safety interlocks were open.

I assume the lights dim when you press the start button. Check the position of the reverse knob and make sure it isn't in an odd position after going down. It could be binding the starter.

Battery condition would also need to be looked at. A volt meter would tell you a lot depending on the type of battery. The 02 and newer have a relay that will not allow the bike to start if it drops below 10V to protect the starter relay from fusing shut from excessively high current from low voltage.

Those would be the starting things to look at.
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post #3 of 29 Old Nov 23rd, 2016, 4:30 am
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side

check the state of the battery with a voltmeter make sure it has 12.5 + volts and watch the v/m when you try to start it will drop like a rock, that is what I would check first before going any further, I bet it has a bad cell.
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post #4 of 29 Old Nov 23rd, 2016, 10:16 am Thread Starter
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side

Thanks guys.

I did check the reverse, and in fact moved it from regular to reverse several times to be sure of its position. It was in the regular forward position, not ajar, when we righted the bike.

I am not sure of the fuel pump, as in the two weeks that I have owned it, I dont recall hearing ANY pump noise in prep for startup. So, what I am saying is that there didnt seem to be any sounds "missing" after righting the bike and attempting to start.

My thinking is Bad cell in battery, though it is plenty strong to operate the center stand and the horn is really strong, OR binding starter motor.

I did not think of it, but I could have rolled it down a ramp to the lower level and attempted a rolling start in second or third gear.
Think that would have freed up a binding starter?

The local shop, not a BMW authorized shop, but a shop with BMW familiarity, is picking it up this afternoon.

We shall see.
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post #5 of 29 Old Nov 23rd, 2016, 10:31 am
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side

Mine fell on the left side once & one cylinder filled with oil & it could not turn over. I put it in 5th gear & bumped the rear backwards one revaluation & then it started up. My garage was so full of oil smoke you couldn't see.
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post #6 of 29 Old Nov 23rd, 2016, 12:43 pm
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side

Computer reset, disconnect the battery for a few minutes. Then before you start it, turn the key on, cycle the throttle from zero to full three times, turn the key off. Now start it up.

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post #7 of 29 Old Nov 23rd, 2016, 3:09 pm
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side

I am with Dave on this one. Left side would allow oil to pool in the cylinder. These starters do not hang up but the starter relay is electronically set not to activate if below 11 volts. So a battery could be the issue. Try Dave "bump the rear wheel in 5th" to rotate the engine through a revolution.
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post #8 of 29 Old Nov 23rd, 2016, 6:37 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side

more good thoughts. the bike was put on center stand on Monday and allowed to sit for 24+ hours. Time for oil to drain back into the pan.

No change in the no start condition.

It stayed on center stand another 24 hours. Just before loading on truck, I trid to start. No change.

Finally, did not attempt to "bump start"

Bike was trucked to shop this afternoon. Ill report on the resolution, but tht may not be until next week sometime.
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post #9 of 29 Old Nov 23rd, 2016, 9:58 pm
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side

Letting the bike sit on the center stand for 24 hours wouldn't necessarily allow any oil that had accumulated in a cylinder to drain back into the sump, especially if the valves for the oil-filled cylinder had been closed based on the position of the cam shafts. No offense, but one thing I learned during my LT-ownership years, when guys like John Z, Dave S, and several others on this forum speak, LT riders should really listen...
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post #10 of 29 Old Nov 23rd, 2016, 10:43 pm
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side

The thought of oil in the cylinder did occurs to me but I didn't think 5 minutes would have been enough time for sufficient oil to leak past the rings to cause a bind. The symptoms match so I also will go with Dave and his suggestion to try and clear it especially if the battery is in good shape.

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post #11 of 29 Old Nov 24th, 2016, 11:24 am
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side

After checking for all the proper interlocks and fuelpump. Etc. I think what Saddleman said sounds very possible. I'd try that.

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post #12 of 29 Old Nov 28th, 2016, 3:15 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side

It appears that Axle takes the prize.

Shop is reporting that the battery is not up to the job.

Thanks to all

Tom
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post #13 of 29 Old Nov 28th, 2016, 4:50 pm
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side

Quote:
Originally Posted by edorazio View Post
It appears that Axle takes the prize.

Shop is reporting that the battery is not up to the job.

Thanks to all

Tom
Good deal Tom. A relatively inexpensive fix.

Gordon
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post #14 of 29 Old Nov 29th, 2016, 12:19 am
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side

Glad you got it figured out. Now you know you have a good battery. Of course, checking to make sure the contacts are secure should be near the top of your list the next time the bike struggles to start. You would be surprised how many times it is something that simple.
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post #15 of 29 Old Nov 29th, 2016, 9:27 am
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side

Quote:
Originally Posted by edorazio View Post
It appears that Axle takes the prize.

Shop is reporting that the battery is not up to the job.

Thanks to all

Tom
Sloshing the battery onto its side may have dislodged some sulfate and shorted a cell. Who knows? The LT certainly needs a good battery as it draws a fair bit of current even when off and when you activate the ABS ... you can almost hear the electrons rushing along.
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post #16 of 29 Old Dec 5th, 2016, 5:23 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side - Update

Well, I am going to have to partially retract the accolades given Axle.

The battery was not completely up to snuff, but replacement of battery DID NOT clear the issue.

Shop delivered the bike to my residence, at no charge, and today, I finally got around to taking off some tupperware and removing the spark plugs.

It did not take more than the #1 cylinder to reveal the true issue. Hydraulic lock by the presence of engine oil.

#2, #3 and #4 cylinders were completely dry.

But #1 was like an oilwell! An exageration, no doubt, but appropriate.

With the spark plugs out, the engine turns freely.

So, as little as 5 minutes sleeping on the left side will fill at least one cylinder and prevent the engine from turning over.

NO MORE FRONT BRAKE WHEN MOVING AT LESS THAN 5 MPH for me.

Again, thanks to all for joining the conversation.

Tom
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post #17 of 29 Old Dec 5th, 2016, 5:37 pm
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side

Once you hit the starter button the piston moved up as far as it could go. That is why you need to put it in 5th gear & rotate the rear tire in reverse at least one full revaluation or more so you can push the oil out through the valves when they open.
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post #18 of 29 Old Dec 5th, 2016, 6:50 pm
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side - Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by edorazio View Post
Well, I am going to have to partially retract the accolades given Axle.

The battery was not completely up to snuff, but replacement of battery DID NOT clear the issue.

Shop delivered the bike to my residence, at no charge, and today, I finally got around to taking off some tupperware and removing the spark plugs.

It did not take more than the #1 cylinder to reveal the true issue. Hydraulic lock by the presence of engine oil.

#2, #3 and #4 cylinders were completely dry.

But #1 was like an oilwell! An exageration, no doubt, but appropriate.

With the spark plugs out, the engine turns freely.

So, as little as 5 minutes sleeping on the left side will fill at least one cylinder and prevent the engine from turning over.

NO MORE FRONT BRAKE WHEN MOVING AT LESS THAN 5 MPH for me.

Again, thanks to all for joining the conversation.

Tom
Something doesn't seem right here. If my calculations are correct, a 4 cylinder, 1172 cc, 10.8:1 compression ratio engine should have a combustion chamber volume of about 25 cc. If the rings will pass more than 25 cc of oil (driven only by gravity) in 5 minutes, something must be drastically wrong in that cylinder. I would do a compression test at a minimum and a leak down test is even better.

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post #19 of 29 Old Dec 5th, 2016, 7:23 pm
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side - Update

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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
Something doesn't seem right here. If my calculations are correct, a 4 cylinder, 1172 cc, 10.8:1 compression ratio engine should have a combustion chamber volume of about 25 cc. If the rings will pass more than 25 cc of oil (driven only by gravity) in 5 minutes, something must be drastically wrong in that cylinder. I would do a compression test at a minimum and a leak down test is even better.
If there were some sort of vacuum in the cylinder, I could see that much oil being pulled in past the rings. Not sure what condition of engine rotation would place it like that other than the engine rotating backwards on an exhaust stroke and the valves closing before rotation stopped.

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post #20 of 29 Old Dec 5th, 2016, 8:28 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side - Update

Could not resist taking it out in the brisk 45 degree evening.

Re why oil only in #1 seemed surprising to me as well, and I would do a compression test if the engine were exhibiting any other issues.

I cleaned up the #1 spark plug with brake cleaner and compared it to the other three. All appeared same color, same carbon patterns.

Engine starts immediately, smooth idle, power is spectacular throughout the RPM range.

Does not smoke, except after having gone to sleep on left side.

But something to keep a look out for symptoms.
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post #21 of 29 Old Dec 6th, 2016, 6:59 am
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side

In a situation where oil gets into the combustion chamber enough to keep the piston & rod from rotating if you try to push start it you might bend the connecting rod & if enough oil accumulated you could blow the cylinder wall out.

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post #22 of 29 Old Dec 6th, 2016, 1:03 pm
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side - Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by edorazio View Post
Well, I am going to have to partially retract the accolades given Axle.

The battery was not completely up to snuff, but replacement of battery DID NOT clear the issue.

Shop delivered the bike to my residence, at no charge, and today, I finally got around to taking off some tupperware and removing the spark plugs.

It did not take more than the #1 cylinder to reveal the true issue. Hydraulic lock by the presence of engine oil.

#2, #3 and #4 cylinders were completely dry.

But #1 was like an oilwell! An exageration, no doubt, but appropriate.

With the spark plugs out, the engine turns freely.

So, as little as 5 minutes sleeping on the left side will fill at least one cylinder and prevent the engine from turning over.

NO MORE FRONT BRAKE WHEN MOVING AT LESS THAN 5 MPH for me.

Again, thanks to all for joining the conversation.

Tom
Why exactly did the shop not keep trying to get it running? Seems like pulling the plugs would have been the next logical step and not very time consuming?
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post #23 of 29 Old Dec 8th, 2016, 9:52 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side - Update

I did not ask them to go further. And, they not being a BMW shop, they did not feel comfortable going beyond their envelope, even though they suspected hydraulic lock..

A bird point being that I wasn't interested in running up the bill when I could do the spark plugs AND I was expecting delivery of a GS911.
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post #24 of 29 Old Dec 9th, 2016, 11:44 am
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side

Don't worry too much about thoughts of engine wear being the cause of the oil getting into the top end.

I broke a band new RT once, went onto its side still running, oil got where it shouldn't, bent conrod was the result.

Good job it wasn't my own bike
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post #25 of 29 Old Feb 8th, 2017, 2:42 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side

Here is an interesting update relative to oil in cylinder #1.

Last week, while parking in my garage, two thing happened;

EHCS failed to lift the bike

When I elected to use the side stand, apparently I did NOT extend it fully before putting load on it. The bile went down.

TO make matters worse, I could NOT get it upright as the concrete floor was too soomth, and the tires would slide as I put my back into it.

So, the bike laid on its left side for the next 12 hours when neighbor gave me some assistance.

I fully expected all four cylinders to have moderate to significant oil in the, so I remover the fairings, etc. and proceeded to remove spark plugs.

TO my AMAZEMENT, all cylinders were essentially DRY!!!!!

Put it all to gether, started and had only light smole for a couple of seconds.

My conclusion is that time is not the determinant of oil seepage in the cylinders when sleeping on the left side.


Getting back to the EHCS, it was replaced by the prior owner in May of 2015. Just returned from an excursion to the BMW dealer where they analysed that the EHCS was not up to snuff and that they are ordering a NEW unit to replace under warranty!

Life is good
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post #26 of 29 Old Feb 12th, 2017, 8:03 pm
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side

You've dropped your bike twice and life is good?!!
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post #27 of 29 Old Feb 13th, 2017, 11:09 am
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side

I dropped mine twice.....one on each side. AND life is good!!
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post #28 of 29 Old Feb 13th, 2017, 11:31 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side

five times so far. all at less than 1 mph. minimal scratches in usual places.

shop going to lower bike when hey replace EHCS. their observation and i agreed, is that the bike is adjusted too high on the OHLINS.

LOWERING WILL BRING THE SIDESTAND LEAN UP TO A SAFER ANGLE AS WELL.

life is good
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post #29 of 29 Old Feb 14th, 2017, 12:08 am
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Re: Issue after going to sleep on left side

Apologies for a bit of a hyjack, I have found Ohlins are sold longer than stock (rear shock anyway). I had the same problem and I have read about others too. I wonder if it is a bit of "oh, my bike handles so much better" caused by raising the rear. If I were to buy Ohlins again I would spec same overall length as stock and send it back if it were not. (unless your were specifically looking for a length change of course)

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