Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 44 Old Nov 15th, 2016, 1:48 pm Thread Starter
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Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

Damn my butterfingers.. So when I was removing the old oil seal by drilling a hole for a screw to pull it out with, the drill bit slipped and went between the seal and the housing.
I "fixed" it by slapping some RTV sealant in there but surprise surprise, it didn't hold. So now I have to pull the swingarm again and do it properly.

I was thinking about cleaning it up real well and fill the cavity with J-B Weld and then slap a new oil seal on.

Does this make sense to you guys? Any better ideas / materials? Loctite has an Epoxy Weld Bonding Compound, maybe that would work even better?

Second question; Is it possible to remove and install the swingarm with the FD attached? Getting the drive shaft back onto the output shaft may be a bit too difficult since access to the it through the swingarm bearing opening is somewhat limited.. Any other things that would prevent doing the swingarm&FD installation this way? Just looking to save some time here if possible but also don't want to mess anything up in the process.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Jay - 2006 BMW K1200LT, 2003 Kawasaki ZRX1200R and 2014 Suzuki Burgman 650 ABS
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post #2 of 44 Old Nov 15th, 2016, 2:48 pm
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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Originally Posted by JaL3_SD View Post
Damn my butterfingers.. So when I was removing the old oil seal by drilling a hole for a screw to pull it out with, the drill bit slipped and went between the seal and the housing.
I "fixed" it by slapping some RTV sealant in there but surprise surprise, it didn't hold. So now I have to pull the swingarm again and do it properly.

I was thinking about cleaning it up real well and fill the cavity with J-B Weld and then slap a new oil seal on.

Does this make sense to you guys? Any better ideas / materials? Loctite has an Epoxy Weld Bonding Compound, maybe that would work even better?

Second question; Is it possible to remove and install the swingarm with the FD attached? Getting the drive shaft back onto the output shaft may be a bit too difficult since access to the it through the swingarm bearing opening is somewhat limited.. Any other things that would prevent doing the swingarm&FD installation this way? Just looking to save some time here if possible but also don't want to mess anything up in the process.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
I drilled into the side of mine as well but not badly. There is a oil passage that you may have exposed by setting the seal too deep. Did you use one of the special tools for that or did you measure? Did you take any pictures of the damage or how you set the seal? If you clean it well, the RTV should do the job by smearing the outside of the seal before setting it. Use a q-tip to clean any excess off.

You are better off just disassembling the FD from the swing arm. I don't recall anyone successfully reattaching it and many have asked if it can be done.

Gordon
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2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #3 of 44 Old Nov 15th, 2016, 4:15 pm
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

I did the same, I used a tube of liquid seal from the auto store, let it set then carefully sand papered the high spot worked great and no leaks. As said make sure that seal is at the correct depth.

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post #4 of 44 Old Nov 15th, 2016, 4:48 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

Thanks guys.

I marked a socket to get the depth to the same approx position as the old one.

Is there really an oil passageway on the clutch rod? I know there's one on the output shaft but that one seems to be holding.

I'll check is I have a picture of the installed seal. Here's a pic of the original one, does the depth look OK? Can it be left flush with the housing?

I'll take the FD off too.
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post #5 of 44 Old Nov 15th, 2016, 5:05 pm
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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Originally Posted by JaL3_SD View Post
Thanks guys.

I marked a socket to get the depth to the same approx position as the old one.

Is there really an oil passageway on the clutch rod? I know there's one on the output shaft but that one seems to be holding.

I'll check is I have a picture of the installed seal. Here's a pic of the original one, does the depth look OK? Can it be left flush with the housing?

I'll take the FD off too.
The oil passage way is in the side of the housing. I have a pic of a badly damaged housing from someone who thought a friend could do it better and damaged it badly. You can see the area that the side of the seal must block. If set too deep, it will leak around the seal edge. They did get it to seal though. Have a look and see if yours is as bad as this

I have the seal driver if you feel you need one. It is counter sunk 187 thousandths according to the tools construction PDF so no, it isn't flush.
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post #6 of 44 Old Nov 16th, 2016, 11:54 am Thread Starter
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
The oil passage way is in the side of the housing. I have a pic of a badly damaged housing from someone who thought a friend could do it better and damaged it badly. You can see the area that the side of the seal must block. If set too deep, it will leak around the seal edge. They did get it to seal though. Have a look and see if yours is as bad as this

I have the seal driver if you feel you need one. It is counter sunk 187 thousandths according to the tools construction PDF so no, it isn't flush.
Thanks again. That picture explains a lot. Forgot to take my shop camera memory card, pretty sure I took an "after" pic of the area.

Thanks for the offer to borrow the tool too, I'll gladly take it to avoid doing this for the third time. I'll PM you for details.

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post #7 of 44 Old Nov 16th, 2016, 1:12 pm
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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Originally Posted by JaL3_SD View Post
Thanks again. That picture explains a lot. Forgot to take my shop camera memory card, pretty sure I took an "after" pic of the area.

Thanks for the offer to borrow the tool too, I'll gladly take it to avoid doing this for the third time. I'll PM you for details.
PM received. Did you drill the weep hole while you had it apart? If so, was that how you knew it was leaking again? Also, was this seal leaking before you did the replacement? I can see in your picture that the output shaft appears to have been leaking some before you replaced it but the slave space looks fairly dry so was this an I am in there so I am going to replace it? Not altogether a bad idea as the new seal ( the orange one) is supposed to be resistant to brake fluid as well as the gear lube it normally comes in contact with.

Gordon
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2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #8 of 44 Old Nov 21st, 2016, 10:52 am Thread Starter
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
PM received. Did you drill the weep hole while you had it apart? If so, was that how you knew it was leaking again? Also, was this seal leaking before you did the replacement? I can see in your picture that the output shaft appears to have been leaking some before you replaced it but the slave space looks fairly dry so was this an I am in there so I am going to replace it? Not altogether a bad idea as the new seal ( the orange one) is supposed to be resistant to brake fluid as well as the gear lube it normally comes in contact with.
First of all, thanks for borrowing the seal driver, Gordon. Highly appreciated and makes me proud to a part of this obviously awesome community.

The picture was taken before I replaced both seals and the slave cylinder and yes, I drilled the weep holes while I was at it. That's how I spotted the leak.
Took it apart again on Saturday to get the seal out, unfortunately forgot to take a picture before I yanked it out to show the depth but it looked like it was a good couple of millimeters too deep.
The picture attached was taken just after I got the seal out, you can kinda see the drill "gouge" in the upper corner. The other pic shows the RTV patch on the seal, doen't look like it was leaking from there..
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post #9 of 44 Old Nov 21st, 2016, 12:04 pm
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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First of all, thanks for borrowing the seal driver, Gordon. Highly appreciated and makes me proud to a part of this obviously awesome community.

The picture was taken before I replaced both seals and the slave cylinder and yes, I drilled the weep holes while I was at it. That's how I spotted the leak.
Took it apart again on Saturday to get the seal out, unfortunately forgot to take a picture before I yanked it out to show the depth but it looked like it was a good couple of millimeters too deep.
The picture attached was taken just after I got the seal out, you can kinda see the drill "gouge" in the upper corner. The other pic shows the RTV patch on the seal, doen't look like it was leaking from there..
No problem on lending the seal drivers. There are several sets floating around with postage as the only cost for usage.

As for the damage to the case, you got it pretty good but not as bad as the person across the pond I posted earlier. I think that will seal with sealer as your picture shows and you can clearly see the oil passage now.

It is a difficult seal to drill to remove as you found out and also a tight place to try and clean well to fill and fix. Your choice to try and fill that with some J&B or just rely on sealer. You might try filling the gouge with sealer flush with the side of the casing before setting the seal so you know it is full but it looks like that happened whatever way you did it last time.

As deep as the seal was, it looks like the gouge was extending the length of the seal. That may not be the case if it isn't as deep when set using the tool. I don't think you are in too bad shape though. Good luck and keep the tool for a short while after you are done to verify no leaks. I don't have anyone in the pipeline at the moment needing that tool or the entire set.
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2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
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1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #10 of 44 Old Nov 21st, 2016, 1:17 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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No problem on lending the seal drivers. There are several sets floating around with postage as the only cost for usage.

As for the damage to the case, you got it pretty good but not as bad as the person across the pond I posted earlier. I think that will seal with sealer as your picture shows and you can clearly see the oil passage now.

It is a difficult seal to drill to remove as you found out and also a tight place to try and clean well to fill and fix. Your choice to try and fill that with some J&B or just rely on sealer. You might try filling the gouge with sealer flush with the side of the casing before setting the seal so you know it is full but it looks like that happened whatever way you did it last time.

As deep as the seal was, it looks like the gouge was extending the length of the seal. That may not be the case if it isn't as deep when set using the tool. I don't think you are in too bad shape though. Good luck and keep the tool for a short while after you are done to verify no leaks. I don't have anyone in the pipeline at the moment needing that tool or the entire set.
Thanks for the encouraging words too. We'll see how it holds after I put it back. Good idea on pre-filling the gouge, definitely gonna do that.
I'll run it in gear for a while before putting the slave cylinder on to see if it starts to leak and if if does, exactly where.
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post #11 of 44 Old Nov 21st, 2016, 2:06 pm
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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Thanks for the encouraging words too. We'll see how it holds after I put it back. Good idea on pre-filling the gouge, definitely gonna do that.
I'll run it in gear for a while before putting the slave cylinder on to see if it starts to leak and if if does, exactly where.
Been looking closely at your pictures and from what I see, your seal was indeed too deep. It is tough to draw a straight line on a curved surface but I think you will get the idea. If I extend the line from the oil passage across to the gouge, and then look at the pattern left on your seal from the sealant, I see that the top has a straight line and not a curved one like the top of the gouge. I think you simply exposed the top of the oil passage and that is why it leaked.
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post #12 of 44 Old Nov 21st, 2016, 3:49 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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Been looking closely at your pictures and from what I see, your seal was indeed too deep. It is tough to draw a straight line on a curved surface but I think you will get the idea. If I extend the line from the oil passage across to the gouge, and then look at the pattern left on your seal from the sealant, I see that the top has a straight line and not a curved one like the top of the gouge. I think you simply exposed the top of the oil passage and that is why it leaked.
Checked the pic again myself and totally agree. If only I had known to ask for the tool the first time..

Oh well, live and learn I guess.

It's pretty hard to see in there even though I had the throttle side pannier off when I did it the first time. It's a bit easier to see what's going on in the photo because I can cram the phone in there pretty close. Gotta do that again once I get the new seal installed

Thanks again!!
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post #13 of 44 Old Nov 28th, 2016, 12:25 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

Got the tool from Gordon and new seal off Amazon (couldn't wait for the local dealer to get one) and installed it over the weekend. Looks OK to me and didn't leak when I ran it on 5th gear for like 15 minutes.
Since I'm a dumb-ass, I pulled the clutch (force of habit I guess) when I put it in gear with the slave cylinder still hanging by the side. Once it made a fairly loud "pop", I knew I just added a considerable amount of extra work and possibly broke the brand new slave cylinder. Darn. Luckily there was no damage and the internals went back in easily, guess the cir-clip retaining groove has a little chamfer for idiots like me to prevent the housing from breaking.

I also learned that you do not have to loosen up the exhaust to get the swingarm on/off..

Anyhoo, here's a pic with the new seal, it's not even near as deep as the "old" one. Gordon; I'll mail the seal driver back to you as soon as I get a few road miles to verify it doesn't leak for reals. It'll some time later this week. Awesome tool btw., thanks once more.
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post #14 of 44 Old Nov 28th, 2016, 4:47 pm
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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Got the tool from Gordon and new seal off Amazon (couldn't wait for the local dealer to get one) and installed it over the weekend. Looks OK to me and didn't leak when I ran it on 5th gear for like 15 minutes.
Since I'm a dumb-ass, I pulled the clutch (force of habit I guess) when I put it in gear with the slave cylinder still hanging by the side. Once it made a fairly loud "pop", I knew I just added a considerable amount of extra work and possibly broke the brand new slave cylinder. Darn. Luckily there was no damage and the internals went back in easily, guess the cir-clip retaining groove has a little chamfer for idiots like me to prevent the housing from breaking.

I also learned that you do not have to loosen up the exhaust to get the swingarm on/off..

Anyhoo, here's a pic with the new seal, it's not even near as deep as the "old" one. Gordon; I'll mail the seal driver back to you as soon as I get a few road miles to verify it doesn't leak for reals. It'll some time later this week. Awesome tool btw., thanks once more.
Looks good Janne. You are not the first person to pop the slave apart by pulling the clutch with it unmounted. Still no hurry on the return. Having the proper tool even though you can get it done without it saves the hassle of what you went through by making it almost fool proof. A shout out to Scouter-50 for making the drawings that Panzer used to make that tool and to him for letting me keep them to lend out as necessary.
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post #15 of 44 Old Nov 30th, 2016, 11:39 am Thread Starter
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Unhappy Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

This thing just keeps fighting me.. Rode it to work yesterday and as was about to leave for home when I noticed the all too familiar puddle of transmission oil next to the center stand. Crap on a crud! (I did use stronger expletives at the time). It leaks worse now than it did before.

The only explanation I can think of at this point is that I somehow managed to nick the axle when I was drilling the seal the first time and it then scraped the lip off the oil seal. This is pretty hard to detect since you really can't see in there and even my little finger is too thick to fit between the axle and the housing. I'll try to confirm this once I get the swing arm off once again.

Oh well, gotta order a couple more oil seals and get back to work. If it turns out to be the nicked axle, I hope I can smooth it out with fine grid sandpaper somehow.

If anyone has ideas what else could be going on here, I'm all ears.

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post #16 of 44 Old Nov 30th, 2016, 11:56 am
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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This thing just keeps fighting me.. Rode it to work yesterday and as was about to leave for home when I noticed the all too familiar puddle of transmission oil next to the center stand. Crap on a crud! (I did use stronger expletives at the time). It leaks worse now than it did before.

The only explanation I can think of at this point is that I somehow managed to nick the axle when I was drilling the seal the first time and it then scraped the lip off the oil seal. This is pretty hard to detect since you really can't see in there and even my little finger is too thick to fit between the axle and the housing. I'll try to confirm this once I get the swing arm off once again.

Oh well, gotta order a couple more oil seals and get back to work. If it turns out to be the nicked axle, I hope I can smooth it out with fine grid sandpaper somehow.

If anyone has ideas what else could be going on here, I'm all ears.
Bummer! I assume there is no doubt it is gear lube and not brake fluid from popping the MC apart with possible damage to the MC seal lip? The slave seal looked pretty good so take some more pictures of the seal and lip as you remove it this time. You should be able to turn the tranny and get the shaft to move so you can get a look at all sides of it.

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Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #17 of 44 Old Nov 30th, 2016, 12:53 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

Bummer is right It doesn't smell of feel like brake fluid so I'm pretty sure it's tranny oil.
I'll take some pics once I get it apart again.
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post #18 of 44 Old Nov 30th, 2016, 1:20 pm
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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Bummer is right It doesn't smell of feel like brake fluid so I'm pretty sure it's tranny oil.
I'll take some pics once I get it apart again.
If you have the time, you can get a good fan and set it in front of the bike, strap the center stand so it can't collapse and dry out the hole and run it for a while to see where it is leaking before you pull it. Any gear should do at idle. If it is as bad as you say, you should be able to see it leak either from the edges or around the center in a reasonable amount of time. The tranny fluid should be readily identified by the smell. I hate that smell.

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2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #19 of 44 Old Nov 30th, 2016, 3:40 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

That's an awesome idea, I'll do that.
Thanks!

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post #20 of 44 Old Nov 30th, 2016, 3:59 pm
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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This thing just keeps fighting me.. Rode it to work yesterday and as was about to leave for home when I noticed the all too familiar puddle of transmission oil next to the center stand. Crap on a crud! (I did use stronger expletives at the time). It leaks worse now than it did before.

The only explanation I can think of at this point is that I somehow managed to nick the axle when I was drilling the seal the first time and it then scraped the lip off the oil seal. This is pretty hard to detect since you really can't see in there and even my little finger is too thick to fit between the axle and the housing. I'll try to confirm this once I get the swing arm off once again.

Oh well, gotta order a couple more oil seals and get back to work. If it turns out to be the nicked axle, I hope I can smooth it out with fine grid sandpaper somehow.

If anyone has ideas what else could be going on here, I'm all ears.
If you did end up knicking up the drive shaft, there may be an alternative solution to having to purchase a new one. My buddy got into picking up old boats and getting them back up and running.....why?....he kinda enjoyed it for some reason. Regardless, one of the issues he ran into was that the drive shaft on the outdrive would often wear a grove into the shaft on the Volvo Penta 110 drives. Replacing with new wasn't an option as you could practically put on a whole new drive for the cost of just the drive shaft. Long story short, he found a company that he was able to send the shaft too, and they used some process to put ceramic into the grove and then re-turn it to original specs. If I remember right, it was around a couple of bones to get it done. If you want, I can inquire about the company and pass along the info?

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post #21 of 44 Old Dec 1st, 2016, 12:54 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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If you did end up knicking up the drive shaft, there may be an alternative solution to having to purchase a new one. My buddy got into picking up old boats and getting them back up and running.....why?....he kinda enjoyed it for some reason. Regardless, one of the issues he ran into was that the drive shaft on the outdrive would often wear a grove into the shaft on the Volvo Penta 110 drives. Replacing with new wasn't an option as you could practically put on a whole new drive for the cost of just the drive shaft. Long story short, he found a company that he was able to send the shaft too, and they used some process to put ceramic into the grove and then re-turn it to original specs. If I remember right, it was around a couple of bones to get it done. If you want, I can inquire about the company and pass along the info?
Thank you for the offer, I may get back to you on that if I can't sand the nick down (if that ends up being the case here, stay tuned )
I really, REALLY, hope that I don't have to remove the tranny..

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post #22 of 44 Old Dec 1st, 2016, 12:59 pm
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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Thank you for the offer, I may get back to you on that if I can't sand the nick down (if that ends up being the case here, stay tuned )
I really, REALLY, hope that I don't have to remove the tranny..
If you do get to the point of pulling the tranny, I will ship you the rest of the drivers and include a Viton O-ring for the clutch housing. No point in getting that far in and not doing it. Will wait and see with you what your issue actually is though.

Gordon
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post #23 of 44 Old Dec 1st, 2016, 1:57 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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If you do get to the point of pulling the tranny, I will ship you the rest of the drivers and include a Viton O-ring for the clutch housing. No point in getting that far in and not doing it. Will wait and see with you what your issue actually is though.
Thanks! I'll do the o-ring for sure and clutch if needed if I end up pulling the tranny. Sure hope I don't have to..
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post #24 of 44 Old Dec 5th, 2016, 11:49 am Thread Starter
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

Took a short video while the bike was running and on fifth gear. You can kinda see the oil seeping between the axle and the oil seal.


I tried sanding the axle with 1000 grid paper, then ran out of time. I'll take some pics later this week to show how the axle looks like.

Question; would there be any down side leaving the seal closer to the outer eddge of the housing i.e. not as deep as the factory wants it?

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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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Took a short video while the bike was running and on fifth gear. You can kinda see the oil seeping between the axle and the oil seal.

https://youtu.be/xkoGcRfMrW8

I tried sanding the axle with 1000 grid paper, then ran out of time. I'll take some pics later this week to show how the axle looks like.

Question; would there be any down side leaving the seal closer to the outer eddge of the housing i.e. not as deep as the factory wants it?
I am guessing by your question and statements about 1000 grit, that you did find some damage to the shaft when you pulled the seal out. Too deep would definitely be the worse of the two with the oil passage being exposed versus too shallow. I don't think there is anything that would come into contact with the seal if it was not as deep but most importantly, it needs to be installed evenly and not cocked deeper on one side than the other. The driver helps with that part. If you can possibly use something applied to the case like black tape in equal layers or some harder flat substance like thin cardboard or plastic milk carton cut around the head of the driver to keep it from setting the seal quite so deep and still set the seal evenly all around, it might be OK.

If you can get a picture of the damage, I would love to see it. Also, look to see if there is any visible damage to the seal lip now that you have it out.

Would love to hear others chime in if they have had issues with this particular seal set shallower and what the issue was.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
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post #26 of 44 Old Dec 5th, 2016, 2:46 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

Oh yeah, grit, not grid
It's pretty darn hard to see in there, I even borrowed an endoscope from work but the axle is so deep in the case it really doesn't help that much. So I'm not 100% sure there's a nick on the axle so I just figured a light sanding wouldn't hurt. I'll try to get some pics tonight. I did not see any damage on the lip of the seal. I'll bring it to work to see how it looks like under microscope.

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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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Oh yeah, grit, not grid
It's pretty darn hard to see in there, I even borrowed an endoscope from work but the axle is so deep in the case it really doesn't help that much. So I'm not 100% sure there's a nick on the axle so I just figured a light sanding wouldn't hurt. I'll try to get some pics tonight. I did not see any damage on the lip of the seal. I'll bring it to work to see how it looks like under microscope.
If you can find a small dental mirror you might be able to get an angle on it and see the sides of the shaft. I have seen some fairly small ones that might fit and be really careful sanding before you know if there is damage. You don't want to create a flat spot.

I would think a new seal would be pretty obvious for damage on the lip. They almost have a razor edge. Flex it around a bit and make sure it didn't split anywhere during install also.

Gordon
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1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
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post #28 of 44 Old Dec 5th, 2016, 8:51 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

Thanks Gordon. I had the bike running in gear when I sanded it so there should not be any flat spots at least.

It'll be late before I get home today so I gotta skip garage or the missus will be pissed. Even more than normal

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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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Thanks Gordon. I had the bike running in gear when I sanded it so there should not be any flat spots at least.

It'll be late before I get home today so I gotta skip garage or the missus will be pissed. Even more than normal
Totally understand, there is plenty of time for the bike and never enough for the misses. I was thinking I would do it that way also. Running, in gear and take a long nose set of pliers holding a loop of paper around the shaft and just let it spin against the paper. Hope you can get some pictures if there actually is any damage. Just update us when you can get to it again.

GC

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post #30 of 44 Old Dec 7th, 2016, 2:36 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

Had some time to play with it yesterday, here's a couple things I noticed:

1. The axle surface feels mirror smooth when poking first with a Q-tip to see if anything catches and then with sharp wooden toothpick trying to feel any dings or dents. Nothing. Took out the borescope and did see a little black groove where the OEM seal was riding on. So not going the full depth with the next seal may be a good idea.

2. The aftermarket seal only has one sealing lip whereas OEM has two. Thinking that I may just bit the bullet and get a new one from the stealer.. Whaddya guys think? I would leave that one a couple mm shallower than what book (Gordon's tool) states.

It's super hard to try to get a pic, perhaps I should buy one of those digital borescopes from HF..
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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Originally Posted by JaL3_SD View Post
Had some time to play with it yesterday, here's a couple things I noticed:

1. The axle surface feels mirror smooth when poking first with a Q-tip to see if anything catches and then with sharp wooden toothpick trying to feel any dings or dents. Nothing. Took out the borescope and did see a little black groove where the OEM seal was riding on. So not going the full depth with the next seal may be a good idea.

2. The aftermarket seal only has one sealing lip whereas OEM has two. Thinking that I may just bit the bullet and get a new one from the stealer.. Whaddya guys think? I would leave that one a couple mm shallower than what book (Gordon's tool) states.

It's super hard to try to get a pic, perhaps I should buy one of those digital borescopes from HF..
Give me a better picture of your weep hole. If what I am seeing is right, you drilled into the side of the seal surface and not into the outer area in front of the seal. In the bottom left of your first picture, I see a hole that shouldn't be there.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #32 of 44 Old Dec 7th, 2016, 3:05 pm
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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Originally Posted by JaL3_SD View Post
Had some time to play with it yesterday, here's a couple things I noticed:

1. The axle surface feels mirror smooth when poking first with a Q-tip to see if anything catches and then with sharp wooden toothpick trying to feel any dings or dents. Nothing. Took out the borescope and did see a little black groove where the OEM seal was riding on. So not going the full depth with the next seal may be a good idea.

2. The aftermarket seal only has one sealing lip whereas OEM has two. Thinking that I may just bit the bullet and get a new one from the stealer.. Whaddya guys think? I would leave that one a couple mm shallower than what book (Gordon's tool) states.

It's super hard to try to get a pic, perhaps I should buy one of those digital borescopes from HF..
I looked at aftermarket seals, but decided to go OEM. Two reasons:

1. Seals are about the least expensive parts of the job.

2. This seal needs to resist both gear oil and brake fluid. That is a tall order, but I have read that the BMW supplied seal supposedly does this. That may be part of the reason for the two lip design.

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post #33 of 44 Old Dec 7th, 2016, 3:22 pm
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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I looked at aftermarket seals, but decided to go OEM. Two reasons:

1. Seals are about the least expensive parts of the job.

2. This seal needs to resist both gear oil and brake fluid. That is a tall order, but I have read that the BMW supplied seal supposedly does this. That may be part of the reason for the two lip design.
For that particular seal, I agree with Matt. on both counts.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #34 of 44 Old Dec 7th, 2016, 3:24 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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Give me a better picture of your weep hole. If what I am seeing is right, you drilled into the side of the seal surface and not into the outer area in front of the seal. In the bottom left of your first picture, I see a hole that shouldn't be there.
There's a fiber optic MagLite extension thingie poking through the weep hole in the new pics. The hole is next to the seal area (where the SC sits), not in the seal area though. You can see it in this old pic, barely..
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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For that particular seal, I agree with Matt. on both counts.
Thanks guys, I'll order an OEM one right now. Hopefully that one keeps the oil in the tranny.

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post #36 of 44 Old Dec 7th, 2016, 3:27 pm
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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There's a fiber optic MagLite extension thingie poking through the weep hole in the new pics. The hole is next to the seal area (where the SC sits), not in the seal area though. You can see it in this old pic, barely..
OK, now that I know what it is, I see that it is coming through the hole. Had me worried there for a few minutes
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post #37 of 44 Old Dec 7th, 2016, 6:07 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

Turns out the local stealer (BMW Motorcycles of San Diego) had six of of these seals in stock. Just got one for a bit over $22.

While I was there, I asked how much they'd want for changing the FD pinion seal (because I didn't want to build the jig), labor only.
I was expecting something around $100 but they quoted $280. Suddenly fabbing the jig doesn't sound so bad after all.. Speaking of which; does anyone know anyone in or close San Diego county that already has this jig? I'd be more than willing to rent it
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post #38 of 44 Old Dec 10th, 2016, 11:52 am Thread Starter
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

A new seal is in for the third time, wish me luck guys
Gonna run it in fifth gear at least for half an hour today, hopefully it doesn't spring a leak anymore. I left the seal about 2,5 mm (that's 0.098" in freedom units) shallower than specced.
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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A new seal is in for the third time, wish me luck guys
Gonna run it in fifth gear at least for half an hour today, hopefully it doesn't spring a leak anymore. I left the seal about 2,5 mm (that's 0.098" in freedom units) shallower than specced.
Clean as much of the oil from the visual side of the seal so it will be obvious of any leak. Don't use any solvents, maybe Q-tips or a paper towel pushed around inside with some flat object that won't damage the seal. Here is hoping!!! Don't forget the fan if you are going to let it run in place that long.
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post #40 of 44 Old Dec 12th, 2016, 11:46 am Thread Starter
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

Ran it over an hour on Saturday and some more on Sunday, also took her out for a short ride (panniers and battery covers still off, tied the tail light to the frame) didn't spring a leak yet. Gonna finish putting her together tonight and ride to work tomorrow to make sure. Also put in new taller windscreen, ran power to my first farkles (phone charger and radar detector) and filled the rear spring preload adjuster with hydraulic jack oil while it was running. Towards the end of the run, I noticed some gas coming out of the overflow tube, guess the gas tank got a bit too hot.

Picture here shows it after first run. The moisture you can see just around the inner part is my "assembly lube" (tranny oil) residue. Hope it holds this time..
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post #41 of 44 Old Dec 12th, 2016, 12:44 pm
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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Ran it over an hour on Saturday and some more on Sunday, also took her out for a short ride (panniers and battery covers still off, tied the tail light to the frame) didn't spring a leak yet. Gonna finish putting her together tonight and ride to work tomorrow to make sure. Also put in new taller windscreen, ran power to my first farkles (phone charger and radar detector) and filled the rear spring preload adjuster with hydraulic jack oil while it was running. Towards the end of the run, I noticed some gas coming out of the overflow tube, guess the gas tank got a bit too hot.

Picture here shows it after first run. The moisture you can see just around the inner part is my "assembly lube" (tranny oil) residue. Hope it holds this time..
Looks Good so far.
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post #42 of 44 Old Dec 12th, 2016, 1:01 pm
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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Ran it over an hour on Saturday and some more on Sunday, also took her out for a short ride (panniers and battery covers still off, tied the tail light to the frame) didn't spring a leak yet. Gonna finish putting her together tonight and ride to work tomorrow to make sure. Also put in new taller windscreen, ran power to my first farkles (phone charger and radar detector) and filled the rear spring preload adjuster with hydraulic jack oil while it was running. Towards the end of the run, I noticed some gas coming out of the overflow tube, guess the gas tank got a bit too hot.

Picture here shows it after first run. The moisture you can see just around the inner part is my "assembly lube" (tranny oil) residue. Hope it holds this time..
Third time is the charm as they say. Or was this the second time? I can't remember...
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post #43 of 44 Old Dec 12th, 2016, 5:28 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

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Third time is the charm as they say. Or was this the second time? I can't remember...
Third time.

Should NOT have even tried the crappy aftermarket seal.
Two other things I learned; Do not change a perfectly working oil seal especially when it's in a hard to get to-place causing the drill bit to stray easily and if you do, RTFM and use correct tool(s) when installing new one(s).
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post #44 of 44 Old Dec 13th, 2016, 3:12 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Drilled into the cluch rod oil seal housing, best material to fill it with?

So far so good, no puddle.
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